[Closed] Alan Cumming

A new series just about to start? Mmmmm

Struggling to give a shit, but the empire was hardly a beacon of how to run the world. He didn’t ask to be associated with it, and now he’s looked into it, he’s decided he doesn’t want to be associated with it any more. Would it not be virtue signalling if he’d had a go at the monarchy/empire and NOT given it back?

(To save others searching, he’s given back his OBE, following discussions about the monarchy and empire after the queens death)

Was it wokeism when Lennon returned his MBE in 1969?

I think many are now put off by the actual naming - "...of the British Empire" when to many, that has negative connotations.

A shining example of attention seeking and virtue signalling at it’s utmost….

Not really - he put a statement out, on twitter explaining his reasons, the media jumped of that and plastered it everywhere making stories out of it. People decline or send back publicly the honours awards all the time.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Or good on you old chap, what a worthy statement?</span>

Its up to him, not you or anyone else, he's made a decision that on reflection hed rather not have the award.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">I think you know where I sit on this one. If I’m ever struggling to define ‘woke’ism’, this is a fine example</span>

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Absolutely nothing Woke about it, like I said people have always declined or returned the awards, Generally I think that anyone that uses the word woke is not someone I'd be mates with.</span>

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> </span>

If it helps there's a whole list of people who've declined honours here, that you can add to your list of the woke.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_declined_a_British_honour

To save others searching, he’s given back his OBE, following discussions about the monarchy and empire after the queens death

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. People can change their views, opinions once they feel a little more educated about something. its not "virtue signalling" or "‘woke’ism."

Was it wokeism when Lennon returned his MBE in 1969?

Love this, often feel like people opinions on whats "woke" or "virtue signalling" is coloured by if they like the person or not.

I find the whole concept of "virtue signalling" and "‘woke’ism." absolutely ridiculous causes need to be talked about so people can learn abot them. Was MLK woke and virtue signalling when he told the world he had a dream. (yes, i understand thats ridiculous thats my point.)

If it’s based on turning down/giving back honours, among the ‘woke’ is Enoch Powell 😂

Was it wokeism when Lennon returned his MBE in 1969?

Lennon was never totally happy accepting it, had a current reason in 1969 (4 years after he received it) with what the British were actually up to. And he had Yoko in his ear

It's taken Cumming 13 years to suss out what the British Empire has been about since the dawn of time? Give over, he's a seemingly intelligent bloke

You don’t have to be a woke, virtue signalling, social justice warrior to be antifa but it certainly helps.

Did I do it right?

To try to bring something out of this conversation (even though I suspect it's trolling lite - OP has a bit of a habit of picking a contentious subject from time to time)

Not that I'm in any way shape or form likely to ever get one, but if I did. I'd be immensely proud to be honoured by my country for services to it. For all our past failings, I am still proud to be English / British while accepting there are parts of Englishness particularly that grate with my personal views. But there's stuff about me, and my wife that i don't like either...you take the good bits and deal with the others either with tolerance or trying to change. But the Empire bit, as a mixed race family doesn't sit exactly right. I know it's the past and can't be changed but a naming that still carries the connotations..... hmmm.

(reminds me, I must watch the Grayson Perry documentary. Who incidentally was CBE in 2013 and just Knighted, raising an interesting predicament for the antiwoke to get fizzy about! In an interview I heard he is intending to go to his investiture in his Claire alter-ego, so will he arise Sir Grayson, Sir Claire, or Dame Claire??)

It’s taken Cumming 13 years to suss out what the British Empire has been about since the dawn of time? Give over, he’s a seemingly intelligent bloke

He's been clear that the discussions around the time of the Queen's death made him stop and think. And now he's decided to act. Sure, could have had that realisation at any time but if you don't believe that reasoning what do you think his real motive is now then? To boost a game show ratings? Really?

It’s taken Cumming 13 years to suss out what the British Empire has been about since the dawn of time?

Is there a cut off point?

Obvious troll is obvious. If you're bored go ride a bike.

Got to be honest, couldn't really care less, i like Alan Cummings as an actor, but he's been a US resident since before he got this award and hasn't cared about the UK or the way it works since then. I'd say it's more of an issue that he was given the award a few years after he'd moved permanently to the US.

Reality is that all handing the award back means is that it gets some press, which can be used by the press and the internet to serve their purpose, and not really that much, it's not like Danny Boyle who put together something pretty special for the Olympics, to then reject a knighthood due to his republican beliefs.

I like Alan Cumming and think he is an exceptionally talented human,he has lived a life that would have crushed the spirit of many.So,for me,he can do WTF he likes,and if it upsets the extreme end of the flagshagging society then that's a bonus.

The whole thing seems a bit antiquated really considering the British Empire largely ceased to exist and became the Commonwealth in the 1940s ?

As for wokeism, I don’t really have an opinion other than I wonder what it is about people displaying empathy that gets other people so agitated?

Lennon was never totally happy accepting it, had a current reason in 1969 (4 years after he received it) with what the British were actually up to. And he had Yoko in his ear

Selective reasoning is selective. For that troll and poke for their own amusement I often wonder how sad and empty their lives are.

Anyone with OBE etc after there name is surely the ultimate virtue signaller?!?

If someone returning an Honour triggers you, its definitely time to step away from the Internet

I think the term 'woke' when used by one to accuse another as just shining a light on what a pustulating ashat the accuser is. It's just a little flag to help the rest of the world realise you are a prick. They might as well just say 'Im not racist but...', or 'some of my best friends are gay but...' or just 'I like sneering at people with lives alternative to mine' and be done with it. We know who they are. Fortunately most are fast approaching god's waiting room so there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Alan Cumming - happy enough that he has made the decision. Personally, I'd not be taking any of the honours if offered (they obviously won't) in the first place. The reason it's been made a thing of is because of all the pustulating ashats desperate to be enraged and tell the world they are enraged. The story is more about the enraged than Alan Cumming.

I was more enraged by his performance on Traitors USA. Absolutely bloody campness to the max. Honestly worth a watch, it's brilliant.

I misread the title, am both disappointed in the content of the thread and myself.

A shining example of attention seeking and virtue signalling at it’s utmost….

I didn't have a strong opinion, but it seems to have upset you, so it was probably the right thing to do.

Its this "wokism taking over the world" or is it "PC gone mad"  I think we should be told

I don't have any strong opinion on this but...

It’s taken Cumming 13 years to suss out what the British Empire has been about since the dawn of time?

...was my first thought when I heard what he'd done. Maybe that's just an indication that he's been living in blissful ignorance until now. Or it's just that I know more history than he does.

I think the term ‘woke’ when used by one to accuse another as just shining a light on what a pustulating ashat the accuser is. It’s just a little flag to help the rest of the world realise you are a prick. They might as well just say ‘Im not racist but…’, or ‘some of my best friends are gay but…’ or just ‘I like sneering at people with lives alternative to mine’ and be done with it. We know who they are. Fortunately most are fast approaching god’s waiting room so there is light at the end of the tunnel.

There is a great deal of irony in that not particularly pleasant post…

As for Alan Cumming returning his honour, I have no strong opinions either way although Not sure why he accepted it in the first place tbh.

There is a great deal of irony in that not particularly pleasant post…

I have no issue with being unpleasant to closet racists and homophobes when they out themselves. And those that elect to use the word woke as a derogatory imo inevitably fulfill that criteria.

There is a great deal of irony in that not particularly pleasant post…

Indeed, but it seems to be what you encounter when your opinion may differ to the masses - especially on here.

It speaks volumes that a poster on here is willing to be quite insulting to a regular poster in defence of an actor he's never interacted with (not that it bothers me, I knew the response I'd get, it's just interesting to see who seeths most).

I may start another thread about the definition of woke, because as does virtue signalling, it definitely exists, whatever you're interpretation or implementation of it.

I'd be interested as to why my original post is deemed offensive, unless of course convert thinks it's my closet homophobia coming out 🤷

I think you know where I sit on this one. If I’m ever struggling to define ‘woke’ism’, this is a fine example

Can you elaborate? Can you actually define 'wokeism' for me please?

I’d be interested as to why my original post is deemed offensive, unless of course convert thinks it’s my closet homophobia coming out 🤷

Please reread. I have (carefully) disengaged my opinion of those that like to use 'woke' as a slur from anything to do with you OP, and answered the thread question in a separate paragraph. If you see yourself reflected in my opinion, that's very much on you. I don't know you, don't care enough about your previous contributions to have a clue what you think on anything in particular. You reference 'wokeism' in your post, hence my comment - but I have no clue as to which side of the fence you sit on Alan Cumming (as you didn't say, assuming you are such a Billy big balls around these parts that people would automatically know or care what you thought) or if you see 'wokeism' as a good or bad thing.

But again - if you see what I wrote about people who like to use 'woke' as a slur and think I'm referencing you, knock yourself out.

" because as does virtue signalling, it definitely exists,"

This forum would be dead without either...

I got up this morning to see the news about another cabinet minister being sacked, the latest update on all the upcoming strikes, the cost of living crisis and the sinking NHS.

My fist thought was, why oh why isn't the government tackling wokism effectively so we aren't in this mess?!

Yep, my first thought, that was...

Its this “wokism taking over the world” or is it “PC gone mad” I think we should be told

I think they’re the same condition. Either can be invoked when someone can’t drop a little casual racism or joke about Derek in accounts being a shirtlifter without being censured for it.

I'm with the 'unpleasant poster" on this.

99% of the time "woke", as used by nobbers, translates to "someone who actually gives a sh1t about someone other than themselves". Ergo 'woke' is a good thing unless you are a knuckle dragger.

I also can't see how what Alan Cumming has done is a great definition of being woke. "Virtual Signalling" maybe, but always hilarious how people on the right shouting virtual signalling are totally blind to their own virtue signalling which is far more common (flag shagging etc.).

While we are down this horrid back water, lets also throw in the other one; "snowflake". Again, people on the right love accusing people of it, but I see far more snowflake-ism from them - eg. being offended enough about an actor handling handing back their OBE to start a thread about it.

Not really – he put a statement out, on twitter explaining his reasons, the media jumped of that and plastered it everywhere making stories out of it. People decline or send back publicly the honours awards all the time.

They probably don’t publicise the decision on Twitter.

He would have been very aware media outlets would pick up on his post and make a story of it. Has Alan got a new project or book out soon per chance?

It’s taken Cumming 13 years to suss out what the British Empire has been about since the dawn of time? Give over, he’s a seemingly intelligent bloke

Indoctrination. You don’t avoid it by being intelligent. It can take people their whole life to begin to undo it, many never do.

Was MLK woke

Absolutely he was.

I saw this yesterday.
I'd completely forgotten it until reading this.
Oh well.

They probably don’t publicise the decision on Twitter.

I'm sure when he accepted the award, the media would have plastered his face on every outlet the could. Also I'm sure he would have been asked for and provided a public statement. Publication of the return of the award by AC on his personal twitter is no different.

When I accepted an award last year I put a statement on FB and Instagram, it went to local papers and news - I am definitely not a public figure. But I also don't see that as attention seeking or virtue signalling, people are interested in these things as this thread shows.

It's a bit of non news imo - he's explained in his statement why he's returned it, it was his choice and he is free to choose to do so.

You are missing the point being made which was a response to the original comment. He can do exactly what he likes but let’s not be naive to suggest he didn’t want the media to pick up on it.

Indoctrination. You don’t avoid it by being intelligent. It can take people their whole life to begin to undo it, many never do.

I don’t buy that. Anyone with half a brain knows that the British empire did an awful lot of very very bad things.

Tonyf1 while I agree somewhat, when being in the public eye, letting the public know some of your actions and trying to control what the media say about you is part of life.

I'm surprised that anybody would accept an honour with "British Empire" in the name but 30 years ago it wouldn't even have crossed my mind to question it. People's education and opinions change, perhaps Alan Cumming's have? He seems to have returned the honour with courtesy and grace, it seems oddly defensive and insecure to take exception to him doing so.

It’s baffling that the name of the honours haven’t been changed anyway. What constitutes the “British Empire” these days?

I have friends with MBEs - none would want to be associated with empire, but thoroughly deserve the awards and recognition.

Name change required, drop the empire bit

I have relatives with MBEs. They appreciate the honour and ignore the name. Honours need renaming.

I realised I missed one buzzword that the right like to throw at the feeble, woke snowflakes; "triggered".

Again, zero self-awareness from the knuckle-draggers. They seem to be far more frequently 'trigged' by non-stories like this than any other sector is triggered by anything.

Here’s a definition of ‘woke’ that I came across a while back. Anyone who disagrees with it should step away from any form of social media, and have a long and involved conversation with themselves about their attitude towards other people.

Drawing Bayesian inferences after extensive sampling, I’ve determined that it’s 99% certain that anyone who uses ’woke’ as a perjorative will turn out to be a ****head. Please don’t blame me for pointing this out - it’s just science.
See also ”liberal"

<li style="list-style-type: none;">
1. willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one’s own; open to new ideas.

2. relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.

Name change required, drop the empire bit

I'd also like to to see the recipient being able to nominate the person doing the bestowing - i.e. not one of our hereditary overlords. The idea of a member of the public (well known or otherwise) being given their award for exceptional contributions they have electively carried out that makes them stand out from the crowd* by someone who got the gig by nothing more than an accident of birth is such hypocrisy. Someone given say an award for their contribution making sport in the community accessible by someone who has benefitted from their work would be so much more powerful. Or our very own scientist with a gong having it presented by a covid survivor or renown scientist if their choice.

*Painfully aware that many of these awards not have as much virtue as would most would like either. Political donation.....we'll what flavour of gong would go best with your jacket?

what flavour of gong would go best with your jacket?

I'm not an expert but I don't think you're supposed to eat them.

I have fun with Americans on social media calling me "liberal" as an insult.  I politely thank them and tell them its a compliment in Europe

Words are defined by how people use them. With that, I agree. However, folk who object to the use of the word woke as a perjorative really are triggered snowflakes. 

Neither do I think that these words are in any way Left Wing or Right Wing. Life really isn't as black and white as some folk seem to think.

100% agree with the hypocrisy bit, but then again I find the whole concept of the monarchy in this day and age mildly ridiculous

Someone given say an award for their contribution making sport in the community accessible by someone who has benefitted from their work would be so much more powerful. Or our very own scientist with a gong having it presented by a covid survivor or renown scientist if their choice.

Are not a lot of these awards nominated by folks or is that not how it works? Obviously tory donors are nominated by the government, but won’t tired’s peers have put him forward?

I’d have had more respect for him giving it back if he hadn’t openly stated he only accepted it in order to drum up publicity for his cause at the time.

And now, when it has more obvious negative connotations that might impact on him, he’s giving it back.

Those who never accept it in the first place, I respect their stance. Bit someone who takes it, uses it to benefit themselves, and then discards it when it might hurt them, I have less time for.

I can’t help but think if the OP pic on facebook, if they have an account, they’d be holding a carp.

As for Allan Cumming, when I seen the story I was trying to remember what I last seen him in. I can’t recall.

He was very good in My Old School. Just lip syncing.

Are not a lot of these awards nominated by folks or is that not how it works?

Yes, that was rather my point - the award recipient are nominated by people who know what impact they have had. So why get a chinless wonder who has never met them before and hasn't got a clue why they deserve it doing the last act and 'gonging' them. Also, a nice side effect would be your city types who get an obe for being very good at making money are only going to be able to find another monied city boy to do the do - no Queenie to make it look all worthy, just another greedy banker.

He was good in The Good Wife.

TBH, I've never really understood what 'woke' meant, when it started to be used as an insult it kind of lost its meaning. But if it just means you're generally a decent person who is accepting of others and their opinions, then I'm very happy to be woke, or liberal or even a snowflake!

As for Alan Cummings, I honestly couldn't give a shit what he chooses to do with his honour.

Some posters score for othering is good, others however, please try harder.

TBH, I’ve never really understood what ‘woke’ meant, when it started to be used as an insult it kind of lost its meaning. But if it just means you’re generally a decent person who is accepting of others and their opinions, then I’m very happy to be woke, or liberal or even a snowflake!

Indeed. I'd add that it is also an acknowledgment that others may have not had or are having as easy a life as you (kind of a development from when maybe we thought being 'blind' to colour, race, gender etc was the eutopian place we wanted to get to). As a straight white middle-class male I aspire to being woke, but appreciate I'm probably not as woke as I think I am.

Perhaps drop the 'Empire' and replace with Commonwealth?

Reading the list of those who rejected honours and their reasons was interesting. Roald Dhal refused an MBE because he thought he should get a Knighthood......

I worked with someone who got an MBE for charity work - the only virtue signalling I noticed was that she became very popular with management who wheeled her out at every opportunity. She was quite humble about the whole thing.

Out of curiosity what's the view on general use of post nominals in a professional capacity - are who use them 'virtue signalling'?

It speaks volumes that a poster on here is willing to be quite insulting to a regular poster in defence of an actor he’s never interacted with (not that it bothers me, I knew the response I’d get, it’s just interesting to see who seeths most).

whats the amount you post got to do with anything? You don't get special privileges if you talk nonsense someone has a right to pull you up on it.

However, folk who object to the use of the word woke as a perjorative really are triggered snowflakes.

[img] [/img]

As for Allan Cumming, when I seen the story I was trying to remember what I last seen him in. I can’t recall.

He did a one man show at the Edinburgh Festival last summer called Burn (about Rabbie). One of the best bits of theatre I've seen in years. I think he then took it on the road.

I can’t help but think if the OP pic on facebook, if they have an account, they’d be holding a carp.

You've seen my Facebook profile pic on here. I'm definitely not holding a carp. I bloody hate fishing - a waste of outdoors time in my opinion

to be quite insulting to a regular poster in defence of an actor he’s never interacted with

Its not about defending the actor.  Its about calling you out for trolling and offensive posting

I knew the response I’d get, it’s just interesting to see who seeths most).

Admitted trolling at that.

whats the amount you post got to do with anything? You don’t get special privileges if you talk nonsense someone has a right to pull you up on it.

It's more to do with the attitude of people (on here and typically of the left). If you have a polarising opinion about something, or something that doesn't toe the line with the virtuous, you receive vitriol.

In this instance, my op wasn't much more than a question, with a slice of my opinion thrown in for good measure.

You probably wouldn't notice, but whilst right of centre people such as myself. Or just people that get tired of the endless tirade of virtuos nonsense paraded these days, rarely express their opinions with much malice. Mockery maybe. The response from the opposing view however is more often than not vicious. Racist, homophobe, fascist, asshat, unpleasant, vile, Tory c-nut etc etc are all thrown about at will.

Why the word woke triggers so much anger I'm not sure, it's not even meant as that much of an insult as far as I can see. The ones most offended about it though, seem to be the ones that you might well describe as being woke without even accusing them of it in the first place. If the cap fits as someone said earlier

offensive posting

Offensive?

Where?

@tpbiker

I don’t buy that. Anyone with half a brain knows that the British empire did an awful lot of very very bad things.

Wouldn't be so sure, a good number of people on here seem (who all have pretty much unlimited access to the internet) don't even follow current affairs, let alone anything that happened more than 10 years ago.

Does he still buy his fish from a van?

rarely express their opinions with much malice

Yes it is true, the political right are masters of the passive aggressive statement, frequently expressing nasty opinions disguised with a façade of civility.

Offensive?

Where?

If yo don't understand now then there is no way I can explain.

Edit - offensive is a bit strong but your contempt for others comes thru loud and clear

If yo don’t understand now then there is no way I can explain.

Please try Jeremy, please. If you feel so strongly about it

Trolling - if posting something you know will get a response is trolling then so be it. I think Alan has done this for other reasons than just 'doing what is right'. Others have different opinions. It's got people talking, you've engaged in the thread for whatever reason that may be. You didn't have to

Edit – offensive is a bit strong but your contempt for others comes thru loud and clear

My contempt for nonsense and virtue signalling is quite clear. As for Cumming, I have no opinion of him other than his latest stunt

My contempt for nonsense and virtue signalling is quite clear.

And yet your previous post is full of virtue signalling about how yourself and other rightwingers are too pure to insult others.

My contempt for nonsense and virtue signalling is quite clear.

Ah, Ok. As I said in my follow up post; I had no clue who you were or your opinions. Hardly recognised the username tbh. Now you've made them clear, I can see why you think my first post was offensive towards you specifically rather than the mildly racist, homophobic or misogynist more generally.

My opinions stand. I don't find people who use the term in the derogatory particularly offensive, just a flag as to who you're dealing with and their malodorous outlook on the world beyond themselves. I note your contempt and will wear it with honour. 😀

And yet your previous post is full of virtue signalling about how yourself and other rightwingers are too pure to insult others

I'm not sure you understand what virtue signalling means

Ah, Ok. As I said in my follow up post; I had no clue who you were or your opinions. barley recognised the user name tbh. Now you’ve made them clear, I can now see why you think my first post was offensive towards you specifically.

To be honest, I wasn't really aware of you, but I'm 100% sure I really wouldn't enjoy having a beer with you. You're quite tiresome. I couldn't even be bothered to pull you up on your blatant backtracking earlier

I really wouldn’t enjoy having a beer with you.

Gutted. If you change your mind, you know where to find me sweetcheeks 😗

I’m not sure you understand what virtue signalling means

Seems a pretty clear cut example of claiming that you are good based on alleged behaviour compared to other groups.
Of course you might not consider yourself to be virtue signalling but that doesn't stop it being so.