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Again the police have absolutely failed a group of mostly young woman.
How on earth did this man get away with raping and attacking these women over many years? After the Jimmy Savile revelations you would think the law could get its act together.
I'm not articulate enough to write down what I really feel about this low life scum bag. Money and power seem to go hand in hand with 'getting away' with almost anything.
Rant over.
I think a bit like Jimmy Savile it was an open secret among those who had to deal with Al-,Fayed that he was a dirty old man who liked young girls.
I heard the rumours many years ago when he was owner of Harrods. The daughter of a friend of my sister claimed that she had an unpleasant experience when he literally chased her round his office, she was something like 16 or 17 years old. Thankfully I don't think anything serious happened.
And yeah, wealth undoubtedly helped to protect him
Money and power seem to go hand in hand with ‘getting away’ with almost anything.
Unfortunately, that pretty much sums it up. What needs to happen is for people to be held to account for all the blind eyes that are constantly being turned. If you knew about it but did nothing about it - leaving vulnerable people to their fate - then you’re complicit
Rumours have always been around him, Private Eye used to do a running theme about the 'Phoney Pharaoh', like many others of that ilk around at that time, he always seemed to be quite an odious muppet with a well paid PR team.
Money and power seem to go hand in hand with ‘getting away’ with almost anything.
When you're so wealthy that any want is accommodated immediately; any moral handbrake that you may have had on even your basest desires must seem pointless and unnecessary. You desire it, therefore it must be given to you. Money just takes care of it.
If i remember, i think his 'wealth' was always brought into question, from how he got the money to buy Harrods and the debt mountain that his 'empire' was built on, not read that stuff in a while, but it sounded murkier the longer it went on.
After the Jimmy Savile revelations you would think the law could get its act together.
al-fayed was contemporaneous with Saville tho judging by much of that coverage. So the same system of omerta gave them both cover. (Saville only really exposed in 2012 posthumously)
Hopefully society today is better at not letting those types get away with it.... hopefully
I wonder if there's a higher rate of sex pests among the money+power lot than the general population?
It's either the availability heuristic at work here or men with a mixture of fame, power and money just don't have a very good track record.
What needs to happen is for people to be held to account for all the blind eyes that are constantly being turned.
This always amazes me. I work for a large bank. If I turned a blind eye to what I knew was illegal activity, ie money laundering, id at best lose my job. At worst end up in jail.
Yet it appears rape isn't treated as seriously..
Hopefully society today is better at not letting those types get away with it…. hopefully
I doubt it (edit, or at least it's way off good enough?). A patriarchal system, the effect of money on people in these circles, the police/courts record on rape investigations and convictions, etc.
i think his ‘wealth’ was always brought into question, from how he got the money to buy Harrods and the debt mountain that his ’empire’ was built on,
Yup, and he made his initial money working for a Saudi Arabian arms dealer. Everything about Mohammed Al-Fayed was dodgy.
One day, the whole of this dodgy past will fully come to light. What we now know of certain individuals and what went on (Prince Andrew, Jimmy Saville and Al-Fayed etc) is certain to be the very tiniest tip of a large iceberg being enabled by an even larger network of others in positions of power in business, government and Royalty.
No surprise to a lot of people.
A friends partner told me years ago about what he was like.
She had a partime job at Harrods when she was a student and made a point of never being alone on the floor when he was aroud.
Disgusting, odious little human,just like Trump and others they imagine they are untouchable.
Seems like a lot of the blame for failing to prosecute should be with the CPS rather than police, a shambles regardless and anyone in any decision-making capacity related to this should have questions to answer.
Sleazy scumbag revealed to be sleazy scumbag shocker.
More confirmation that nothing useful to society ever got out of a Range Rover.
When the only witnesses to your crimes are your private security detail and the victim it's really not that hard to get away with anything.
A moments pleasure for the 'dirty old man', turning into a possible lifetime of trauma for the victims.
I had the misfortune of visiting Harrods in the late 1990's when Al-Fayed had turned the lower ground floor into a shrine to his son and Princess Diana, that prompted me to walk right out of the store. This oxygen thief got so many things wrong.
How these victims of people who are only found out after death, can find closure, it's hard to say.
Is an HR person, or solicitor, who knows or suspects what's gone on and arranges a "pay off" and "NDA" that prevents* reporting it to the police guilty of an offence? It seems that might amount to attempting to pervert the course of justice. It's only by making these third parties liable that we can stop such cases from being properly reported and investigated.
*I doubt any such agreement is enforcible but that shouldn't matter to your intent by using it as a tool.
How on earth did this man get away with raping and attacking these women over many years?
The interwebs reckons at the time of his death he was worth an estimated ~$2 billion USD, Obviously he'd flogged the shop to Qatar by then.
Lets be honest (historically at least) very different laws seem to apply to the disgustingly wealthy, even if they're not well liked by the establishment. And I really don't think that has changed as much as people might like to think...
I wonder if there’s a higher rate of sex pests among the money+power lot than the general population?
I honestly don't think so. The money and fame just allows them better resources to cover it up. It depresses me a little, at times, how there appear to be so many men that just seem to feel that women are objects for their pleasure. Chattels. Lesser humans. Just look at most war situations: One of the first things that seems to happen is some soldiers feel it's ok to just rape and abuse women and children. They don't really have money or wealth. Afghanistan currently and the ruling Taliban. What a horrific place for women right now. Most of the civil wars and ethnic cleansing that went on across Africa. Rape, abuse and torture was there in abundance. And this is just scratching the surface.
I think that war is a fairly unique experience which brutalises people in a fairly unique way, it devalues the sanctity of human life. A man who has been forced to endlessly kill people he doesn't know, and watch his own friends die next to him, is ess likely to see rape being wrong to quite the same level as a man who hasn't been brutalised in this way.
For example I doubt that all the American GIs who raped Vietnamese girls were rapists before and after their stint in Vietnam.
I reckon scaled hits the nail on the head :
When the only witnesses to your crimes are your private security detail and the victim it’s really not that hard to get away with anything.
Greedy men with a sense of entitlement and financial fortunes will use the privileges they have in a way that other men simply can't.
The easier it is to commit rape the more likely it is to occur.
It doesn’t help the police if no one approaches them at the time with their accusations
That was my understanding, I've not followed it closely but not seen a report that the assaults were reported to the Police, sadly.
I understand the reasons why that happens, and it's totally wrong.
Not sure what the culture of silence/NDA solution is. If a woman who has been sexually assaulted doesn't feel up to reporting it to the Police and going through the trauma of an investigation, do you report it and put her in that position?
I had relatives at Stoke Mandeville who knew you didn't want to be alone around Saville, but never reported him for his actions.
It's tragic for the victims, and awful that these people are only being held to account after their death.
Al-fayed was contemporaneous with Saville tho judging by much of that coverage.
Was about to say the same myself, but Fayed only died last year - that's 12 years after Saville. There was plenty of time for justice to be served - even if he wouldn't have seen the sentence out.
I wonder how many more are hiding in plain sight for the lack of action......
His inappropriate behaviour towards young women/girls was in the public domain almost 30 years ago:
And to back up scaled's comment:
"The whole thing was based on fear and intimidation," said Francesca Betterman, Harrods' former company solicitor. "Whenever he came to see me, he would have three of his bodyguards with him - ex-SAS or something - it was very frightening."
It's sad that like with US mass shootings, when you hear about it on the news it just doesn't surprise you!
The old times were bad times, I just hope it stopped at some point...
an even larger network of others in positions of power in business, government and Royalty.
I think people overestimate this supposed "network" and completely underestimate the importance of how much freedom decent lawyers and the ability to pay for them regardless can bring you. The royals hated Al Fayed, but they weren't stupid enough to go toe-to-toe with him when his legal fund was as deep as theirs.
I think people overestimate this supposed “network” and completely underestimate the importance of how much freedom decent lawyers and the ability to pay for them regardless can bring you.
Deep pockets and the ability to hire people to find dirt and the gaps to avoid deeper scrutiny and then the ability to sue for libel at the drop of a hat are powerful tools.
Criminal justice may not be 2 tier (citation required), but civil litigation is absolutely 2 tier and that is what aids those who can afford it and those who manage to dodge the criminal element to silence critics.
@mrbadger said
Yet it appears rape isn’t treated as seriously
and I know this is a different case, but I was horrified this week to hear the mayor in the case in France of the man who drugged his wife for mass rape to be committed say this:
In an interview with the BBC, Bonnet said the case could have been far more serious. There were no children involved, no women were killed, the family will have a hard time but they can rebuild. After all, nobody died,” he told the broadcaster.
the mayor has since apologised, but it does make me feel that what mr badger said is depressingly spot on.
Yeah I couldn't believe what I was hearing. This bit in particular:
the family will have a hard time but they can rebuild.
Wtf?
NDAs should be null and void in cases like this, although the accepting of payments does muddy the water somewhat. It is just rich man to whom no one says no. Doing what he wants because no one will say no. Even if they do money will make it go away.
His henchmen, the legal teams and those who knew about it and facilitated the pressure put on these young women need to be prosecuted to the greatest extent of the law.
How on earth did this man get away with raping and attacking these women over many years?
“The whole thing was based on fear and intimidation,” said Francesca Betterman, Harrods’ former company solicitor. “Whenever he came to see me, he would have three of his bodyguards with him – ex-SAS or something – it was very frightening.”
This! Even victims who hadn’t actually been abused would be threatened by him saying they would never be able to work in London again. Even hints of threats to their families as well, I believe.
When an odious monster like him is rich enough even our Royal family would think twice about threatening him with legal action, who would ever think about trying to take him to court.
The old times were bad times, I just hope it stopped at some point…
wow
I may have missed something but didn’t they say some or all women were afraid to say anything until after his passing because he was so powerful that they feared the consequences. Again money can make anything happen both good and bad, lawyers overturning convictions for example etc etc…-
More accusations and allegations now regarding Fulham football ladies team.
'His people', meaning the ones in the know (body guards probably), need to face the consequences. Sad to think 'some' of our armed forces were paid to turn a blind eye, when protecting the monster.
You’ve got to be gobsmackingly naive to be surprised by any of this. You can see it all the time, people punch down, blame the victim, side with the powerful.
Not all of the people all of the time, but enough of the people enough of the time. Standing up for the truth costs time, effort, it makes enemies. Lots of people can’t be bothered or wouldn’t dare. Look at that post office scandal for example. The people involved in that weren’t all uniquely evil monsters, just people “keeping their heads down” and “doing their job”. Many people reading my post would do the same in their position. Most, in fact, given the rarity of whistleblowers.
As for “different times”. Give me strength.
Is an HR person, or solicitor, who knows or suspects what’s gone on and arranges a “pay off” and “NDA” that prevents* reporting it to the police guilty of an offence? It seems that might amount to attempting to pervert the course of justice. It’s only by making these third parties liable that we can stop such cases from being properly reported and investigated.
That HR person or solicitor will also be subject to the fear of repercussions. You are asking them to put themselves at risk to prevent future occurrences. Where do you stop? Are each of the victims equally guilty of "perverting the course of justice" by not going public at the time and therefore encouraging future offences?
ones in the know (body guards probably), need to face the consequences. Sad to think ‘some’ of our armed forces were paid to turn a blind eye, when protecting the monster.
wasn’t the head of security an ex senior copper? Obviously the lure of £ overrode any notion of wrongdoing that may have come from his previous employment.
This did not stop with Saville, Fayed et al. Someone is at it today, terrorising victims and hiding behind the asymmetric law (I can ruin you long before I get to court).
And we will have to wait until a few months after their death to have suspicions confirmed.
This is no doubt happening now.
This is no doubt happening now.
Obviously there will always be sexual predators but I think what has probably changed in recent years is the cultural which plays down sexual predators as being just dirty old men whose unacceptable behaviour we sometimes have to tolerate because of their status in society.
At exactly same the time when Mohammed Al-Fayed was leering at young sales assistants on the shop floor and chasing them around his office we were all laughing at the dirty old man Mr Grace of Grace Brothers and his inappropriate sexual behaviour on Our You Being Served?
It was funny because it was portrayed as innocent and consensual but that was hardly representative of real-life situations. I think we probably now understand that in a way that we didn't appreciate at the time.
The problem is, remembering my time at university first time around, that all this awareness is taking us more or less up to the level we were at in the early 1980s. Being aware of predation, especially of vulnerable women is not new. It's being able to do something about it.... the law is still asymmetric and they can use it, the victims cannot.
And there are still plenty of pals in high places, although one deep pocketed (£12M) cover up artist is no longer with us.
Having read the Secret Barrister's book, although there are things that we could do to improve the law (speed and quality of justice, reforming our ridiculously biased libel laws), the presumption of innocence is always going to be an issue in these sorts of cases, especially where the defendant has greater resources than the prosecution.
I do think that the culture needs to change. Optimistically I think it is, although I'm aware as a man who works in a female dominated environment that I'm likely to be blissfully unaware of most of it.
I may have missed something but didn’t they say some or all women were afraid to say anything until after his passing because he was so powerful that they feared the consequences
I once worked for a national newspaper and the journalists knew who all the wrong’uns were. They’d come in and say “yeah… insert rich and powerful persons name here… is known to be a bit rapey, or likes beating up rent boys while off their heads on coke, but obviously we can’t publish that because we can’t prove it”
Unless it’s absolutely water-tight they just can’t and people won’t go on the record because they know it will end their careers and catapult them into a whole world of shit
Things have changed though, for example think of Rolf Harris and Max Clifford. And Gary Glitter is currently in prison.
Unfortunately there have also been some spurious allegations which seriously undermines genuine cases.
Greedy men with a sense of entitlement and financial fortunes will use the privileges they have in a way that other men simply can’t.
The easier it is to commit rape the more likely it is to occur.
I'd like to think that more accurately the kind of person who can amass such wealth is more likely to be the kind of sociopath that thinks only of there own power and disgusting urges. If I won the euro-lottery tomorrow it wouldn't make me think "at last, what can I get away with now".
We all like to think that but the evidence is clear that a large majority at all levels are at least prepared to turn a blind eye and/or side with the power.
wasn’t the head of security an ex senior copper?
Ex met police officer, par for the course.
I’m intrigued by the timing. No prosecutions are possible. His estate will have been distributed as per his will so there is no money to be gained by the late accusations. I’m not sure what the Met are supposed too do. He was clearly protected but then he was friends with the royal family and they seem to have a dubious list of friends, Saville, Epstein any number of Middle Eastern royal families and their links to terrorism.
He was clearly protected but then he was friends with the royal family
He really wasn’t. Quite the opposite after all the frightful business with Diana and his son. Many people may have protected him, but the royal family would have been more likely to have him bumped off than cover up his dodgy deeds
He was up to his neck in the sleaze of the Major years with mates like Neil Hamilton and Johnathan Aitkin
Wasn't he always on about the Duke of Edinburgh or someone wanting him dead and using the security forces against him, i don't think you can lay any blame at their door for Fayed, he was a law unto himself as many have explained.
I'd go so far as to suggest that if the Royals didn't have their own Andrew shaped skeleton in the cupboard, they might have even blown the whistle on Al-Fayed.
If I won the euro-lottery tomorrow it wouldn’t make me think “at last, what can I get away with now”.
You're an exception on here, the standard STW go to in the case of unexpected income and what to do with it is "coke and hookers".
I’m intrigued by the timing.
I must admit I did wonder what it was being used to hide.
If I won the euro-lottery tomorrow it wouldn’t make me think “at last, what can I get away with now”.
It’s a little more nuanced than that, assume you were born into a family with great wealth and surrounded by people happily enabling all your whims 🙂
He was up to his neck in the sleaze of the Major years with mates like Neil Hamilton and Johnathan Aitkin
I had forgotten about that.
Here's some interesting comments about Al-Fayed from another paedophile
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/paedophile-max-clifford-boasts-covering-33718425
It’s a little more nuanced than that, assume you were born into a family with great wealth and surrounded by people happily enabling all your whims
Then add in you grew up in an exceedingly chauvanistic society, and started working professionally in the 60s/70s. Back when pinching a girl's bum in the lift or on the tube was perfectly acceptable.
Again the police have absolutely failed a group of mostly young woman.
TBH the numbers of successful convictions for rape are mind bogglingly bad. 🙁
during 2021-2022, of the 70,330 rapes reported to police only 1,378 led to a conviction. This is a conviction rate of less than 2%.
It’s also about 1-2 years for a hearing date.
To be fair the low conviction rate must in part be linked to the nature of the crime - typically a lack of witnesses and victims who struggle processing what they have experienced preferring instead to detach themselves from the memories of the crime if at all possible.
Which is obviously why specially trained investigators are the key.
Yep I’d expect a low rate but 2% !!!
I found this an interesting read
I’d not really thought about the generational differences to consent.
You’re an exception on here, the standard STW go to in the case of unexpected income and what to do with it is “coke and hookers”.
Speak for yourself - neither have held any interest for me. Nicer means of transportation, more gigs, and expensive whiskey here.
It's an observation, Countzero. Make of it what you will.
My favourite transport is my feet followed by a bike, skis and arms to drag myself through water. I've given up going to gigs, the last one was as an artist and I think that was my last. I don't drink or do drugs except minimalist use of Becotide. Not sure what that's got to do with Al-Fayed though.
think of Rolf Harris and Max Clifford. And Gary Glitter is currently in prison.
I'd rather not think of these (and Stuart Hall) people. However they are in prison because they didn't have the funds to 'cover up and blackmail'.
Sad to hear that in 2015 the crown prosecution couldn't take action against Al-Fayed for 2 cases of rape, due to lack of evidence.
That HR person or solicitor will also be subject to the fear of repercussions. You are asking them to put themselves at risk to prevent future occurrences.
no im not questioning if someone who covers up evidence is guilty of failing to prevent future offences, thats some sort of moral or ethical dilemma. My question was a genuine one, could the use of NDAs to prevent an alleged victim of crime (or other witness) reporting that crime amount to attempting to pervert the course of justice. (Or perhaps “Assisting and Offender” or other such charges). It seems unlikely that Fayed could pull off shutting up the victims without help from others, who perhaps should bear some of the criminal responsibility - which would make it harder for the next Fayed (be under no doubt there will be more rich people exploiting their power). I appreciate that to some extent these people might also claim to be victims of the Fayed machine - but unless they quite their jobs asap after I am not convinced.
Where do you stop? Are each of the victims equally guilty of “perverting the course of justice” by not going public at the time and therefore encouraging future offences?
im not saying someone who hears a complaint and doesn’t report it is guilty, im saying someone who hears a complaint and offers you money and makes you sign an agreement never to speak of it again might be guilty. Its quite a leap to get from that to blaming the victims for not speaking up sooner.
Are you sure Bunnyhop? I've just checked and Rolf Harris left a £16 million estate when he died last year.
His and Max Clifford's convictions happened as a result of Operation Yewtree which also included another 5 successful convictions. It does suggest that there has been a change of attitude following Jimmy Savile's death and being wealthy and high profile no longer gives quite the same protection as it previously did.
Yes An estate of £16 million is large, but possibly Harris wasn't able to 'get' to so many people, or his funds may have been tied up in property, bonds, investments. Whereas Al-Fayed probably with many more millions at the ready was able to pay off his 'subjects'. We'll never know.
My very first full time job at the age of 17 was at a family run firm. The boss was a female. However once or twice a week her husband would wander in (dip his hand in the till) and try it on with the mostly young, female staff. Nobody warned me about this letch. He once pushed me against a wall when everyone else was out of sight. It was extremely frightening and somehow I pushed back and ran out of the door. After that episode I never went near him alone, he abused the little bit of power and wealth afforded to him. Also I never told my father, as he would have knocked the guys block off.
At least coke and hookers involve a consensual financial transaction. There'll be less money for coke this year.
Marina Hyde absolutely nails it once again
Behind every Al Fayed or Diddy, there is a small army of enablers: this column is dedicated to them
I always thought Michael Cole was a wrong 'un, interesting to see what Private Eye say today, they didn't like him, or, obviously, Al-AFayed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy40r9419kdo
I really really hope something comes of this :
It is also looking into whether there may have been others who could face charges for enabling or assisting his behaviour. The force has previously said it was investigating at least five people.