[Closed] Airports and airline delays

journey out, all sat on plane then announced a half hour wait as there was ‘too much air traffic over the airport at present’.

Yes. You probably had a slot, it's a way of managing traffic to ensure the airspace (or airport) doesn't get overloaded. A slot gives a 15minute window to get airborne in. A lot of time you won't notice and they will often coincide with the planned time anyway.

journey back, sat at the gate, the gate was late opening, it just opened as the flight was scheduled to leave, they got the priority passengers out first, then us riffraff, but made everyone wait on the steps outside for 20 mins or so for a bus to the plane. buses came and went, some empty pulled up then pulled away again, bit of shouting between the staff and drivers, eventually we set flew an hour late.

As you say this is likely to be the airport not running very smoothly. Beginning of the summer, maybe not fully staffed and still getting used to the increased traffic.

my question is….. something at the back of my mind told me budget airlines such as ryanair will always be the ones who are shoved down the line if there needs to be delays, to make way for the better airlines. is that right or am i dreaming it up?

From an air traffic point of view, no they won't be treated any differently. All normal flights are treated the same, regardless of airline size.

were ryanair just told to wait for other ‘more important’ customers to take off?

No. The only flights they would be bumped for would be special or emergency flights (Royal or medical flights etc).

I can assure you that there is no bias towards specific airlines.

ATC delays are caused by many factors.

Tonight it's weather cells over London causing flow regulations to be applied because of airspace capacity.

my question is….. something at the back of my mind told me budget airlines such as ryanair will always be the ones who are shoved down the line if there needs to be delays, to make way for the better airlines Flashy . is that right or am i dreaming it up

Yup flashy had an emergency paper clip order to fulfill, hence you getting bumped.

In my experience, the budget airlines plan schedules that seem to rely on zero delays and perfect turnarounds to cram as many flights into a shift as possible.

Which almost never happens and then it all goes to shit pretty quickly.

You probably had a slot, it’s a way of managing traffic to ensure the airspace (or airport) doesn’t get overloaded. A slot gives a 15minute window to get airborne in. A lot of time you won’t notice and they will often coincide with the planned time anyway.

interesting, so does the airline have that 15 min slot months in advance, and hence the flight time they advertise? and its up to the airline to ensure they make it or lose it? and if they dont make it in time, do they just get slotted into the line when theyve got their act together, and push others down the list of departures, so that they then become late too?

and why do you often get changes to flight times months in advance?

thanks

No: Slots are tactical & are set on the day (& indeed may change as circumstances change). Missing a slot means the aircraft has to get another one, so yes it may delay others although there is a limited degree of flexibility in the system. This is why you hear anguished calls for people to get out of the bar and onto the flight. If the aircraft reports ready to depart then it can sometimes have its slot brought forward depending on capacity.
Part of the handling agent issue is that airlines get the services they pay for. Ever wondered why budget airlines are so cheap? Ground handling is cut to the bone.

Genuine coffee spill moment @bruneep!

😁

OK, the above is all correct, there's no bias. However, it's how airlines deal with, and communicate about, the delays and problems that sets them apart. My father was a pilot, friends of his went to fly at Ryanair (he never would!) And some of the tales that came back did nothing to change my opinion that I'll never fly with them. If I needed a budget option, EasyJet are excellent, or with a little planning and thought, 'proper' airlines can be cheaper than budget. Either way, because it's Ryanair, you get this sort of thing, "pilot never mentioned it or apologised".

My last major delay was with Virgin (eurgh) to JFK, connecting on to Nashville. Plane went tech due to a bird strike on the nose cone, but throughout the 3hr delay, they communicated plans to passengers, and in flight they spoke to every single passenger with a connection and sorted them out. Impressive service. (Shitty seat, dreadful IFE and mediocre food, though, but hey...)

As said above it’s the plane turn around times of the budget airlines and the carry on luggage issues that seem to cause most delays and planes missing slots. Also how well the ground staff work with the airlines. EasyJet I like but they seem to have quite a lot of delays. Ryanair I’ll never fly with again after they left me stranded in Europe once, intentionally letting us check in know there was never a flight so that the ground staff wouldn’t have to talk to us.

BA - I fly very frequently and hardly ever get delayed.

There is bias between airlines at airports. Not with slots as that is outside of the airports control and is as much about maintaining a safe system than anything. But when it comes to airport resources, like steps for disembarking, then if it’s busy and someone has to make a call over the last set of steps then calls will be made between airlines. I know airlines don’t make much money from budget airlines. They have a lot of negotiating power so the airport is making naff all from the various fees they charge budget airlines so are more likely to be bumped for another airline that is be paying full fat fees.

I actually find Ryanair and their like pretty good in adherence to schedules (not necessarily for on time departure). That’s because they put so much fat in their schedules that if to do take a delay on departure they still land before their schedules arrival time so they build in expected delays into the schedule which avoids paying out compensation to passengers for delays that are outside of their control.

Ryanair fly everywhere at 245 knots as an SOP it seems. Most others do 300ish.

I don't know whether that is for economy reasons or for building in a buffer so they can speed up if they're behind. It seems to work for them.

Expect a delay with them if you return to Stansted late evening. They're whole fleet returns to roost then.

There can be bias against particular national carriers depending on the mood or opinion of the airport employee. Certainly know this of ATC if it's a choice between home carrier and another. Slots as others have said is a factor too.

In the UK BA get no higher priority than anyone else when it comes to ATC actually controlling the aircraft. I've heard it may be different abroad but its not the case here.

Not BA specifically but certainly know controllers have given UK carriers benefit over other nations. Not in every case obviously but has/does happen.

Not BA specifically but certainly know controllers have given UK carriers benefit over other nations. Not in every case obviously but has/does happen.

Doesn't happen in the UK. Now if you go to France / Spain / Italy / Germany / Turkey et al you'll find that national carriers are given priority everywhere. We're too nice.

Sorry but it doesn't happen. I'd rather put a Lufthansa A320 in front of a BA A380 to maximise vortex spacing. It's about safety first then efficiency.

My father in law is ex BA 777 and he says we're too nice because the bias abroad to home carriers used to be unbareable.

Certainly used to happen at a major UK airport 😉

Sorry. just no. Not in the UK. Controllers try to do things as simply as possible because that is also the safest thing to do. Trying to manipulate the order artificalliy just makes the task more difficult.

I reckon ryan air add a buffer on to their departure times and then put their foot down to ensure they arrive on time at the Destination due to setting off late anyway.

They wait until the last minute to get you on, then you Q after the gate/before you get on the plane and then when you arrive they tell you that you have arrived in time like 97% of all their flights.

It certainly is a business model...

Safety obviously first and first come first served but if its 50/50 and all being equal and a choice between UK and foreign carrier then I know senior controllers with over 100 years combined experience have favoured the British airline.

That may be an old school culture thing but today, as in I'm on a break right now, not one of my colleagues will prioritise an airline based on nationality.

Aircraft may get shortcuts if it's tactically possible and the traffic situation permits, but it will not be based on whether they speak with a british accent.

al and a choice between UK and foreign carrier then I know senior controllers with over 100 years combined experience have favoured the British airline

I've been a controller for 30 years & I've never come across this attitude.

I've never prioritised any plane based on the name written down the side of it.

Mostly I put them in the order that makes my life easier and with the least delay/fewest miles for everyone. AFAIK everyone I work with does the same too.