AirBnB. Anyone have one?

I rented out my own actual house which I live in a couple of times when I was away. I am very picky with my guests. One of them annoyed my neighbour by chain smoking on the front step for hours at a time; another left a spectacularly stained bed sheet. Apart from that, no bother at all.

Dare I ask what the bedsheet was spectacularly stained with.... It wasn't a Trainspotting moment was it

There's been two in my building at different times. They were people's homes in a place with lots of demand for housing. One couple were evicted so the flat could become an AirBnB.

Bear in mind you'll be robbing someone of a home, annoying the neighbours and will have to deal with complaints like "your guests are smoking and making phonecalls outside my window at 1am", "one of your guest's dogs had destroyed all of nextdoor's garden ornaments", "I can smell weed through my walls" and "your guests have used our green waste bin for their rubbish and no way am I picking it out". You'll also be the one spending your Sunday afternoon airing the whole thing out after two lads have smoked weed in it for the whole weekend, or cleaning up after a party for three hours.

If you want to make money off a house, buy it and rent it out.

We used to operate 2 that were bought specifically to do this. We gave up after 2 years as the roi was worse then just having them as btl and alot more hassle. They can work and they do but it only well as either holiday places where there is good tourist flow or if there is a steady flow of contractors working on civil engineering type projects and want somewhere to stay. The tricky bit is that these 2 markets want very different products. Tourist tend to want the luxuries and the nice touches. Contractors want space for them so to park their vans safely.

if your buying a property to do this you can’t use a normal btl mortgage you have to have a specialist one that attracts higher rates

As for the practicalities of running them there is a lot to consider. There are multiple platforms to advertise on. Airbnb, booking.com, etc etc. all with different fee structures that you need to consider when pricing.  Then you either need to pay a company to handle the bookings, check your guests out, your giving strangers keys to your property, check them in and out and organise cleaning. This will probably cost around 20%+vat of the revenue plus there actually cleaning costs etc

Alternatively you can do it yourself. This means subscribing to software that coordinates the bookings from all the sites you advertise on and blocks out when the property is available on all of them nstantly when you get a booking so you don’t get a double booking. Many of the advertising platforms make it your responsibility to find alternative accommodation if you do get a double booking and will prevent you from advertising if you cancel bookings. Then you have to deal with the check in and out process, cleaning, damage, phone calls when the guest can’t make the Wi-Fi work at 2am etc

in short it does work in the right places but it’s not as easy as it’s made out to be

We rented an AirB&B place a few years back in Scotland off a lovely retired couple who’s bought the place to do so. It was absolutely lovely so we got in touch with them to try and rent it again

They said they didn’t AirB&B any more as a nice couple had rented the place, then got all their mates round for a huge weekend-long  party and completely trashed the entire place including ripping all the decking up in the back garden and using it and the garden furniture for a bonfire on the lawn 😳

I used to, but I've now converted it to a long term rental.
On the whole guests were OK, no real damage, but some weird stuff like pulling the wiring out of the light in one of the bathrooms.
If you have to pay someone to do changeovers it gets expensive quickly - easily £80-100 for a 2 bed place.
AirBnB take their cut.
Check out the licensing situation - STL's are coming in in Scotland which are having a positive effect on the long term rental market, especially in Edinburgh and Glasgow, but there's lots of AirBnB owners up in arms about the loss to their livelihoods.

I run one in a very touristy area. It belongs to my dad and is not an investment. We probably have about 30 odd bookings a year, mixture of short stays and 1 or 2 week holidays.

it is quite a lot of work, cleaning, laundry, maintenance, dealing with enquiries.

It probably isn’t massively more profitable than a long term tenant but my dad gets to use his house for a few weeks a year and if he wants to live in it again then has no hassle of evicting tenants.

The numbers as a pure investment make no sense to me, it only works if property prices are rising too…

Property like this is getting very un-popular in tourist areas by locals, and local government. And it's taking cheaper properties out of reach of youngsters.

We have a tin box in North Wales, but are likely to get kicked off site as the van is getting old (it looks like new and is a top end tin box). We won't buy another as the cost of something is stupid, but we 'could' buy bricks and mortar locally, but we don't agree with it, and Welsh Govt are Council Taxing massively. We'll probably not spend our cash in Wales after this year, and spend it back home.  Shame all round.

Was looking at the ROI aspect and could you make more by effectively doing less and filling demand for short term letting.

I checked to see what is already on AirBnB in the areas the properties are in and there are already quite a few, similar to what i have. Theyre more 'touristy' than short term contractor/worker.

They are in Scotland. Had a look at the recent introduction of the STLs, and did the online questionnaire so would need a Short-Term Lets License and all the paperwork/requirements that are demanded.

I'll keep with Plan A ....

They are in Scotland.

Many councils are now enforcing planning permission for change of use to approve the STL.
Also shared entrances e.g. Tenements and blocks of flats are not allowed in Edinburgh and Glasgow and it's likely that that is being adopted by all councils.

Tenements and blocks of flats are not allowed in Edinburgh and Glasgow and it’s likely that that is being adopted by all councils.

Thats been blocked by the courts IIRC  However the environment for short term lets in Scotland is only going to get more difficult

My parents did holiday lets through Sykes for years (mainly just pre-and post retirement). It was quite a lot of work as they were doing the changeovers themselves, and they had to jump through a load of hoops eg. fire safety certificates etc.

Meanwhile the person in the flat behind that was letting hers for weekends on AirBnB with none of that, for up to seven people in a two-bed flat. This annoyed them quite a bit.

I think it’s like everything - if it’s done properly it’ll be a decent amount of faff/work, but there are a reasonable number of cowboys out there. I don’t see STL licensing as a bad thing (though my parents have stopped doing it).

I used to do it and could convert some long term rentals into it, but would have to deprive  long established families of their homes, so it's a no.

The short term let's only really work if you live locally and do everything yourself.  The fees, tax, service charges and hassle factor just kill the idea.

I used to look after other people's when I did mine, the only people who made money already had a lot of it and didn't need it. The greedy owners on a budget scarcely got anything.

Future regulation will severely limit short term lets.

My sister has two. One is an annexe on their own property and the second a small holiday bungalow in a popular area (which has been a holiday home since being built in the 1970s). The former tends to be let to people wanting longer stays, often for work (it’s in Exeter), the latter is solely holidays in the South Hams. She’s does everything herself and has not had any issues whatsoever. People tend to be very pleasant. And then there are the outliers. Who are not. Fortunately they are in a small minority and she has not had any (yet). When work is paying, people treat properties very well indeed.

Welsh Govt are Council Taxing massively

If your running it as a full time short let then you don’t have to pay council tax. You can have it transferred onto business rates instead then claim small business relief on those business rates at 100%

If your running it as a full time short let then you don’t have to pay council tax. You can have it transferred onto business rates instead then claim small business relief on those business rates at 100%

So the local housing stock gets depleted and the council loses income. Win-win.

So the local housing stock gets depleted and the council loses income. Win-win.

pretty much but that’s the way the law is written. If your doing this commercially then you take the tax breaks you can. Ask the government chums do so why not the small guy when they can.

There are plenty of others around refurb costs and utilities that are taxed very differently as short term let compared to a bit to let. In the eyes of the tax legislation you are running  a hotel and get the same tax breaks they do

From the 'user side' - i'm REALLY going off AirBnB... I much prefer a hotel/spa nowadays...

You pay WAY over the odds now for AirBnB, and then you have to clean up (i'm not happy vacuuming and dusting after a ****ing holiday!) and strip and remake beds etc!! We got a really negative report from someone (it was their first rental, we were the first customers) as they were spying on us with the ring camera (!) and noted we had family nearby pop in for the day (it was a big house in the new forest) and they didn't like this....

Hotels all the way!

DrP

Thats been blocked by the courts IIRC

Not quite - assuming non-compliance for certain conditions has been judged unlawful, but it's far from clear what that means for licensing.

However the environment for short term lets in Scotland is only going to get more difficult

Definitely

You pay WAY over the odds now for AirBnB, and then you have to clean up (i’m not happy vacuuming and dusting after a **** holiday!) and strip and remake beds etc!! We got a really negative report from someone (it was their first rental, we were the first customers) as they were spying on us with the ring camera (!) and noted we had family nearby pop in for the day (it was a big house in the new forest) and they didn’t like this….

For my sins, I'm on a couple of AirBnB owners facebook groups. Some don't grasp the concept of providing a service and some of the levels of entitlement are bewildering. But I suspect that their views align with many of their customers. It's not quite peak gammon, but it's a lot pinker than i'm happy with.

AirBNBs and the like have helped destroy communities in popular tourist spots by making housing unaffordable for local people. Are you happy being a part of that? Usuing your already priviliged position of wealth to make even more wealth at the expense of others less fortunate? The sooner local councils can tax second homes out of existence the better.

then you have to clean up (i’m not happy vacuuming and dusting after a **** holiday!) and strip and remake beds etc!!

To be fair, we've never had to do this. Tidy up, yeah (but I'd do that anyway), but not any kind of cleaning.

I am getting more jittery about using them from the 'impact on the local housing' side though. We got an AirBnB in Llanberis and it was just a normal little house, and it hit me that it would otherwise be a starter home for someone, and that's classic area where those kind of houses are becoming harder to come by.

We have effectively a large'ish glamping pod on our garden which we run as an Airbnb alongside our village shop.

airbnb.com/h/thecabinmiserden

We've run it for 3years now, only had a couple of issues with guests but both were bookings as 'favours' to locals outside of airbnb - one wouldn't leave and was drunk, the other left the place in a state. We only take Airbnb guests now and other than the odd stain on sheets etc have had no problems.

The cabin itself we needed planning for as we are in an aonb, and as we run the shop and it supports that we managed to get it.

Biggest issue we had initially was someone cloned our listing onto booking.com and we had uninvited guests turn up who thought they'd genuinely booked with us. I now can't create my listing on booking.com for some reason - I assume because they now think that we are scammers too....

AirBNBs and the like have helped destroy communities in popular tourist spots by making housing unaffordable for local people. Are you happy being a part of that? Usuing your already priviliged position of wealth to make even more wealth at the expense of others less fortunate?

This is a difficult one, but it isn't this simple. Locals selling up don't have to sell to folk buying as a second property. 10 years ago, St Davids in Pembrokeshire implemented rules which meant that people buying houses had to use it as their main home. Regs like that would help more, but would also reduce house prices which locals also don't like.

If you want premium customers go with someone like Sykes, English Country Cottages etc. Tradesmen and folk looking for a dirt cheap weekend away won't be looking on those sites.

If you are thinking of letting your own home out (eg while you are on holiday), never would I do that! I can't imagine trying to protect all my personal stuff while other people are in there.

You pay WAY over the odds now for AirBnB, and then you have to clean up (i’m not happy vacuuming and dusting after a **** holiday!) and strip and remake beds etc!

Another reason to book with the more premium holiday home companies. We always go with Sykes and the leaving policy is basically 'leave it tidy'. Bedding, towels etc get left for the turn-around people. Unless we've spilt something I've never hoovered a holiday cottage before leaving.

You pay WAY over the odds now for AirBnB,

So ours is comparable to a hotel in cost £100 a night basically after fees (it goes down the longer you stay).... But.... you get a different type of accommodation

You get your own, self catered private accommodation.

You can stay with your pet

You get a private garden

You stay in a unique location with no hotels

You get walks and access to places direct from the door of the accommodation you can't with a local hotel

Etc.

and then you have to clean up (i’m not happy vacuuming and dusting after a **** holiday!) and strip and remake beds etc!!

I don't think I've ever stayed in a holiday let where this isnt expected, privately, airbnb or otherwise. We do charge a cleaning fee rather than add it to the cost of the nightly stay, as you would in a hotel.<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">!</span>

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">We got a really negative report from someone (it was their first rental, we were the first customers) as they were spying on us with the ring camera (!) and noted we had family nearby pop in for the day (it was a big house in the new forest) and they didn’t like this….</span>

Sound like you've been put off Airbnb by this experience, unfortunately there are some complete idiot's renting out on Airbnb, same as any industry I guess...

I don’t think I’ve ever stayed in a holiday let where this isnt expected,

Hotels don't expect you to vacuum or make beds...!

I get all the benefits of staying somewhere small, local etc.. (and in a completely '"i'm aware of the irony" way, i'm staying with my OH in an AirBnB shepard hut next weekend!..Though I'd have preferred a hotel!).. I just think AirBnB has REALLY changed from how it was set up - a cheaper way of holidaying..

Now it's a premium cost with little of the charm, which makes the decisions of whether to stay there a lot harder..

DrP

AirBNBs and the like have helped destroy communities in popular tourist spots by making housing unaffordable for local people.

Not all Airbnb's though. Many, like mine are purpose built adding to the local economy. Others are inside / shared with existing residential space. However I do agree that there are many properties that have been specifically bought for holiday let, many of the landlords are on the Airbnb forum and their business models are completely different to those of us that rent one space.

This isnt exclusive to Airbnb though, it's a wider social and economic issue. We used to live in Devon 15 years ago, owned a small 2 bed house. Had to sell up after being made redundant and couldn't find a local job specific to my career in retail design (most were tourism based) - moved to Bristol. Tbh if Airbnb was a thing I'd have probably done that with the house with a view to keeping it compounding the issue.

I just think AirBnB has REALLY changed from how it was set up – a cheaper way of holidaying..

Now it’s a premium cost with little of the charm, which makes the decisions of whether to stay there a lot harder..

This is true, it was set up for people to rent out spare bedrooms. But now it can provide a good alternative to hotels - there are absolutely loads of unique stays on there. From staying in planes/helicopters, treehouse, cabins in the woods or even Shepard's huts 😜

I don’t think I’ve ever stayed in a holiday let where this isnt expected, privately, airbnb or otherwise.

A tidy up before you leave is expected and I'd do it anyway. Stripping and remaking beds (never had to remake a bed!), dusting, vacuuming - sod that - I'm on holiday!

Stripping and remaking beds (never had to remake a bed!), dusting, vacuuming – sod that – I’m on holiday!

I can only speak for.our property but we don't put any requests in for cleaning when leaving in  our welcome pack. Generally all guests do this as a matte roof course. Sometimes it takes hours to clean when they leave, sometimes 30mins.

Just sounds like you like a hotel, especially after your bad experience with Airbnb.but a hotel stay offers a different experience than what you get with going privately. Airbnb is just an eBay of BnB - sometimes you get a good buyer/seller sometimes you get a good host/guest.

We've used Air BnB as customers a lot in the past and had lots of success (though you have to be discerning about where you pick). I like the original fundamental principal ("live like a local") but now it has proliferated so much I have felt part of the problem lately, so to speak, when pulling a wheely case into residential flats in some tourist spots.

For this reason I think we are more likely to use hotels these days, though depends on the location and the circumstances really.

@monkeyboyjc

I like the look of your place, might well be in touch to book it for a couple of nights.

👍 417project is a 10min drive FoD is 35/40 and loads of good local single-track and bridalways....