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Yet he believes I'm sponging off him and should be more open about my finances when its not like he's proposing a more serious relationship where we are financially tied together
There has generally been some great advice on this thread which some of it I have already acted on. The above wild assumption is absolutely drivel however .
Up until yesterday I've never questioned her finances. Not once up until 2 days ago have I ever asked her where the best part of a grand a month, that I assumed she had as her own 'spare cash', goes.
You make me sound like I'm some kind of controlling partner, because I pay the bills. Let's be very clear, I pay the bills because I had assumed that after I had, we'd be both left with a similar amount of spare cash.
I've made it perfectly clear previously I'm happy to continue to do so, but likewise if she wants to start contributing more she can. No pressure from me at all.
I'm not telling her to do anything, I'm not standing over her demanding she speaks to a lawyer or the hmrc. What I'm telling her is that it would be a very good idea to do so. And she clearly needs continuous encouragement to do it otherwise as has been proven, nothing gets done. And this is to her detriment, not mine.
From the sounds of it her financial cluelessness perhaps stems from her previous relationship, a xxxx of an ex who controlled the finances then tricked her into signing away any claim to any of their shared assets. But she isn't in that relationship anymore, so whether she's with me or anyone else, or on her own, she needs to sort that aspect of her life out
Also..Muffin man has it spot on.
Correct - but those are entered into as mutual agreement. There's zero evidence here that she actually want's tp's input (given he's had to coax the information from her) or that she values it once she's got it (given she doesn't seem to have done any of the things he told her to, or taken up his offers to help get legal advice!)
I don't think giving your partner the advice ' seek legal advice ASAP or you will lose what you are legally entitled to' is being intrusive, pushy, controlling or unreasonable. Infact as I recall you yourself said that's exactly what she shoukd be doing in a separate thread. So stop making me out to be the bad guy here.
I don't mean any offense, so apologies if I caused any, I appreciate it's a difficult situation.
All I'm trying to say is that you really have no first hand information as to what's going on, and all she's told you, assuming it's the truth, is that she doesn't either.
That's fixable and you should of course work with her on it.
On the flip side I've seen people get well and truly tucked up as it might be the tip of the iceberg.
really there are lots of people that totally detached from their financial situation. Some don't read their mail, some can't read or don't understand it (HMRC correspondence is often atrocious), some just don't want to.
100% this ^^.
People go into a sense of denial. Shame, fear, embarrassment, whatever. Add in the emotional upset of a divorce and a complete change of circumstances, it's easy to see why denial and trying to hide from it all seems a very rational plan for the person concerned.
You're trying to keep a grip on reality (so fairly normal spending as much as possible), you're trying to maintain social status (so you accept the invite to the pub, the meal out, the cinema, even though you can't really afford it), the problem snowballs.
It's a big scary problem to deal with, there are big scary people and organisations behind it - as mentioned above credit card companies and HMRC / DWP are not the most sympathetic of people...
I don't mean any offense, so apologies if I caused any, I appreciate it's a difficult situation.
No offence taken fella. I too find it very hard to beleive that if someone noticed a huge wedge of their monthly income disappearing they wouldn't want to know the exact details of why.
But that's just me. Do I beleive she's telling me the truth, actually yes. But she needs to get on top of that sharpish. I'd say the same to a partner, friend, or a random on this forum. Not for my sake but for theirs
It's basic money management. As she has found out to her detriment already, it has cost her many thousands of pounds already
The more I read the more I think you are dating a teenager. Not a grown up 47yr old.
Please dont take this as harsh critisism but can she mentally process simple maths and understand basic income V expenditure?
Its not a problem if she cant, as long as she acknowledges the fact, or , even worse, if she can and totally understands but then sticks her head in a bucket of sand and just ignores things that require a mediocum of thought processing and time ( as that is keeping her away from Love Island - Tik Tok Reels - Corri - TOWIE ) . Then at least you might stand a fighting chance . - if she accepts that its not her thing and its costing her money to be unaware of whats going on and you really want to / would like to help her as its in her best interest to be on top of grown up stuff.
The HMRC payments might be BS. sounds like an extremely harsh repayment scheme if true. How long did the ex say he wasnt working for ? Bet she doesn't have any pension in place or savings for car repairs - insurance - replacement vehicle.
Up to you if you decide to stick or twist . If it were me , I could maybe overlook past financial debacles if all pertinent info was out in the open and she accepts that everything you do is in her best interest and she lets you get on with it, rather than her sweeping it under the carpet and hoping it will all be ok.
The more I read the more I think you are dating a teenager. Not a grown up 47yr old.
You've not met my 54 year old sister! 🙂
She's bloody useless with money had been in debt loads of times and she openly admits she needs her very frugal husband to keep her in check. He's the big earner and just transfers her an 'allowance' so she doesn't spend on useless shit.
I think it's important not to be controlling here...
But you do need facts before you can move forward or make a decision on your future.
You're essentially at stalemate at the moment and to move forward in that unknown position is just not tenable.
Once you both know the lay of the land you can move forwards and plan how to tackle the debt together.
At the moment it seems it's just question mark after question mark.
Sound like my sister. She ended up tapping my parents for £40k after she split with her ex. To buy a small house outright but has no job. I did her a quick spreadsheet to put incomings/outgoings into to see if she could sustain herself.
She didn't and I suspect lives every month in the red just waiting for an inheritance to come and reset her pennies (it's not coming soon). We don't speak.
I did her a quick spreadsheet to put incomings/outgoings into to see if she could sustain herself.
That sums up the experts on this thread in one short statement. 🤣
I did her a quick spreadsheet to put incomings/outgoings into to see if she could sustain herself.
That sums up the experts on this thread in one short statement. 🤣
As funny and cleche as that is...
You absolutely have to do that sort of thing in this day and age if you want to stand a chance of firstly keeping your head above the water, and secondly to even think about any long term plans.
There's a massive bomb coming in the future where people living month to month and renting with no plan are going to end up at retirement age without a pot to piss in.
These people will simply be left to be homeless and die, not to put to fine a point on it.
Do people think the reform party will fix it?
They will be in for a very terrible shock.
then sticks her head in a bucket of sand
This is the crux of the matter. Tbh I don't give a xxxx what she spends her money on, it's hers to do what she wishes. I'm not going to judge given I have 20 grands worth of pushbikes in the garage
The issue isn't that she has no cash, it's that she has no cash because she seems to stick her head in the sand when it comes to financial matters.
If she'd got 100k off her ex from the divorce and spunked it all on expensive handbags and a new BMW it's none of my business. At least shed have something to show for it. But as it is, due to her complete inactivity relating to the matter, she has nothing.
then sticks her head in a bucket of sand
This is the crux of the matter. Tbh I don't give a xxxx what she spends her money on, it's hers to do what she wishes. I'm not going to judge given I have 20 grands worth of pushbikes in the garage
The issue isn't that she has no cash, it's that she has no cash because she seems to stick her head in the sand when it comes to financial matters.
If she'd got 100k off her ex from the divorce and spunked it all on expensive handbags and a new BMW it's none of my business. At least shed have something to show for it. But as it is, due to her complete inactivity relating to the matter, she has nothing.
Exactly... I've never had joint accounts other than one we both put in equal to cover specific fixed costs..
If I was earning more then I'd generally pay the lions share for holidays or fancy meals or whatever.
We've both always had seperate finances and if she wants to blow her free money on designer shoes that's fine as I'm doing exactly the same thing with expensive computers or whatever.
There needs to be a common understanding that works for both of you.
Please dont take this as harsh critisism but can she mentally process simple maths and understand basic income V expenditure?
My grandparents (quite surprisingly, given that generation) were the same. Any money they got was frittered away on...well, I dunno..."stuff". Tat.
They were suckers for salespeople, they'd trust anyone and they bought all manner of absolute crap with no research, no second thought, no discussion and certainly no finance management or forethought of "we might need this to pay for a care home".
It is very easy to do. Many many people live like that, paycheck to paycheck (or pension payment to pension payment), scraping by with no household budget.
I'm going to hazard a guess that if there's a previous abusive relationship, that's probably a significant reason for hiding things away, keeping secrets, not disclosing full information. Like a dog that's been beaten; even when you try to show it kindness, it'll cower in the corner, it takes a long time for it to process that things have changed and you're not there to hurt it.
There is some serious misunderstanding of how some people's brains work going on here. Just because it is obvious to you that planning money is required to manage both short term life essentials and longer term goals, doesn't mean it is for everybody.
I'm pretty sure my wife is autistic, her daughter has a diagnosis, she shares a lot of traits, her mum is similar etc. One of the behaviours is pathological demand avoidance - it is a thing, look it up. This can be about absolutely anything including (especially) the important stuff, just because it is going to mess up your life massively if you don't do something doesn't mean it can't be avoided. There will be some semi plausible excuse, blame others, outside of my control. I'm not saying your partner has this but just be aware some people are simply wired differently and your logic does not apply.
If you just interpret that as a character flaw, ' head in the sand' then you will probably really struggle to get along with this person. I've learnt to deal with these behaviours (and of course I have my own) and we manage just fine.
You make me sound like I'm some kind of controlling partner, because I pay the bills.
Well no. We only have half of the story. YOU make you sound like that.
It's OK to be crap with finances so long as it's acknowledged. I once looked into mortgage offers, they gave me a loan offer based on my partner's temporary contract salary. It was a nuts amount, it would've paid for this place twice over and then some. So I said to her, "I'll agree to move if we can demonstrate meeting the mortgage payments for six months." We broke even month on month, then eventually she left me (in part) because I refused to move.
Today I own the new place outright and as far as I know my ex is homeless. I'm terrible with money and I have no idea what my current partner brings home, I don't really want to know as it's none of my business, but I'm damned if I'll let any of us drown.
We're OK. We're not great, but we're OK. If I get taken out by a bus tomorrow... we're OK I think. That's OK, right? The house is paid for, the car is a rental, her kids plead poverty but earn more than we ever have. I have no pension worth a shit but by most other metrics we're ahead of the curve. So long as I drop dead in say the next 20 years, we're OK.
It's a yes / no decision.
True but a decison not to be made rashly.
You (rightly) feel responsible TP which fits with your repsonsible persona on here. There's a mix of rational, responsible and emotional. You can't deal with this coldly because you aren't cold and heartless. You feel for the person and don't want to hurt them with your words or actions. Which is hard when you're being hurt by their words (or lack of) and actions (or inaction).
You need to find a way to get her to open up and present all the divorce and HRMC paper work that might save your relationship with her or definitively condemn it. Don't be surprised if it's worse than you thought, if the couple are both having to pay HRMC monthly it strikes me that the couple may have been insolvent going into the divorce or the bailiffs would have recovered the sum, it's odd. I know a woman who knows full well she'll never have another stable partner while she has a huge debt hanging over her from a previous relationship with a con man. The only way out is bankruptcy which isn't easy in this part of the world but one day she might get here life back. Till then any man she is honest with runs a km and she makes the best of a bad situation.
From the information you've given it strikes me that kicking her out might not be as easy as you make it sound - you can't just kick her out. You have an agreement even if only verbal to her making a contribution (food) which gives her rights. Google it and get legal advice.
We don't know the lady, you do. We don't know how you get on day to day, you do. We don't know what financial stress has brought this to a head, you do.
Hope you find a way to make it work if you both want it to, and get out without doing to much damage too each other if that's your final choice.
because when you finally get through to someone at HMRC to “negotiate” a payment they should be asking you questions to determine what you can afford. It’s equally possible she’s ignored that option and just accepted some sort default payment.How the hell do you not only get hit with a £400ppm payment plan from HMRC, but not know how long it will take to pay off or what the total is?really there are lots of people that totally detached from their financial situation. Some don't read their mail, some can't read or don't understand it (HMRC correspondence is often atrocious), some just don't want to. The people that get themselves in bother with HMRC probably have a big overlap with those groups, because thats how they got the numbers wrong in the first place.HMRC and Benefits overpayment collection people are rarely gentle on the uninitiated. Have a £million house, a huge pension pot and an accountant to negotiate on your behald and you can probably negotiate to repay a small amount a month over a long time. Have nothing and they will threaten court / prosecution / earnings arrestments etc. Its really not that different to the post office scandal - fear and complicated processes are used to get you to admit to simple errors with staff likely incentivised (or at least targetted) to maximise recovery.is it even fair/ is she paying for her exes portion if hes done a runner and they are jointly liable? And.. if shes on minumum wage, would they not agree to a less agressive repayment plan given the circumstances?its not impossible that HMRC have taken into account her current living arrangements in determining what they expect. Ironically tp's "generosity" might actually mean she is paying more (quicker).if she were single, that kind of debt on that wage, plus all other living expenses would bankrupt her in no time at all.
How would they know about her current living situation?
that’s not how you worded it further up the thread. I did suggest she should be seeking legal advice (and probably still should) but she’s clearly not keen to do that for whatever reason. She lives in your house, there’s no way we can know why that is if you don’t. But clearly you are irritated that she repeatedly ignored your direction/advice.Correct - but those are entered into as mutual agreement. There's zero evidence here that she actually want's tp's input (given he's had to coax the information from her) or that she values it once she's got it (given she doesn't seem to have done any of the things he told her to, or taken up his offers to help get legal advice!)
I don't think giving your partner the advice ' seek legal advice ASAP or you will lose what you are legally entitled to' is being intrusive, pushy, controlling or unreasonable. Infact as I recall you yourself said that's exactly what she shoukd be doing in a separate thread. So stop making me out to be the bad guy here.
im not saying you are controlling, im saying she might perceive you as being controlling and if she’s come out of a particularly controlling relationship she might be particularly sensitive to it. If you want it to work you might need to change your approach. If you stubbornly stick to your current approach it’s probably going to get worse not better.
Everything Edukator just said.
It's not easy of course, despite how blasé I may be. I don't envy the position in the slightest. I have a - relatively - simple relationship and a break-up would still be immense. There are days when I wish she'd just take her shit and **** off, and I have no doubts that there are (probably more) times when she thinks the same of me. (This is normal, right? RIGHT?!)
But ultimately I love her dearly and even beyond rose-tinted glasses and/or my Disproportionate bitching about her putting cutlery in the wrong sodding drawer I know that both our lives would be immeasurably worse without each other. So when faced with a fork in the road I've picked a route and am now merely worrying about mud and potholes rather than direction.
This is where we're at here. It's trivially easy for me to be dispassionate because I'm notoriously poor at tracking usernames, but I have come to regard you as... well, someone I recognise who hasn't sufficiently pissed me off to feature of further notariety. Trust me, I mean this as a complement, I'm ****ing hopeless, back when I was a moderator I needed a notepad. What I'm trying to say here is, I think you're one of the good guys. And that at least affords me a degree of investment.
What my investment is telling me is, you need to turn left or right and your internal GPS is bleeping in your ear. Correct or wrong, and genuinely I desperately hope that it all works out, further roadworks and temporary traffic lights are of secondary concern.
What do you want? What does she want? Pop quiz, hot shot.
The answer to what i want is easy..
I'd like things to work out for us, absolutely. But if it doesn't I also want her to be OK financially.
If we did split up in future, for any reason, she'd not have a pot to piss in
Technically this wouldn't be my issue, but I can't ever foresee a situation where I'd not care enough about her to not be bothered if that happened
She came to you with nothing. She still has nothing. That falls to one person and one person alone. You can't save people from themselves.
She came to you with nothing. She still has nothing. That falls to one person and one person alone. You can't save people from themselves.
Or it falls on the abusive ex-partner who conditioned her to feel worthless and gave her nothing ?
The answer to what i want is easy..
I'd like things to work out for us, absolutely. But if it doesn't I also want her to be OK financially.
If we did split up in future, for any reason, she'd not have a pot to piss in
Technically this wouldn't be my issue, but I can't ever foresee a situation where I'd not care enough about her to not be bothered if that happened
If the relationship is over, and it’s acrimonious then you can probably walk away knowing your tried. However if it’s actually reasonably civilised then you can ask yourself what you would do if a really good female friend was living with a guy only because she felt she had no option and would otherwise be homeless. If you were in a financial position to lend her the deposit and first months rent for her own place then provided you realise that the chances of that loan being repaid are tiny your conscience would be clear - and you’d have treated her better than the ex. I’m not saying you should do this - but if the choice is that or spinning her along for many months gradually getting more irritated with her approach it might be better. Ironically she might actually be more receptive to financial advice from a “friend” than a “partner”.
I know many are quietly thinking this - so I'll ask the questions we've all been afraid of so far!...
• Is she called Louise?
• Is she fit?
HTH! 🙂
Or it falls on the abusive ex-partner who conditioned her to feel worthless and gave her nothing ?
Exactly...she spent 20 years with the xxxx and all she got out of it was a debt to hmrc.
I have every intention of trying to make things work. She brings loads to the relationship, just not any money! But as I say that's cool, I have my own.
Wow. Funny that when someone makes a less than nice comment on an RIP thread they get shouted down, but it's ok to post crap like this about someone's actual partner.
Yeah fair, that was excessive. Sorry.
U OK HUN!!!
FFS reign it in.
You jumped in with both feet on the TV recorder thread too telling the OP it's his wife's problem!
U OK HUN!!!
Not particularly, but I suppose that's not what you wanted to hear.
You jumped in with both feet on the TV recorder thread too telling the OP it's his wife's problem!
Was I wrong?
I also provided actual advice and asked for further information. After being leapt on, I've attempted to clarify how 'fixing shit' actually works.
you need to sit down and discuss it.
If you can't discuss money then you won't be able to work through anything more challenging
FFS reign it in
I must have missed some comments on here, maybe they were taken down.
I know my partner, she's got her faults (clearly, as we all do) but ultimately she is a lovely lovely person.
If anyone has posted crap about her then ultimately it doesn't really bother me, it's a forum, I'm the only one who knows what's she's really like
And I'm also very mindful that it's easy to post nasty stuff on a forum that doesn't reflect who you are as a person in real life, we've all done it when we are having a rough time. So whoever it was, and whatever was written, no hard feelings from me.
Again, thanks for everyone's advice, it's been great. Have a good day all👍
I don't think I saw anything nasty... I think someone took exception to someone else being blunt/dramatic.. ..
I got slapped. Probably justifiably? I don't mean to be 'nasty,' I just want to help. Sorry if that needed exposition.
No all good. I didn't see anything nasty either...
Hence why I assumed I'd missed something.
A frank, open and caring discussion is what you both need. I’m very good at putting off financial stuff and I’m a Mathematician and the sole earner. Fortunately I married someone who is good at management (of me). I hope you sort the HMRC stuff and it isn’t a handbag and shoes Blahnik habit 😉 You obviously care for her.