So I'm not sure getting relationship advice from a forum is the best place tbh, but I want some other perspectives
Basically my other half moved in last year, she's on a minimum wage job, where as I earn a decent salary. But certainly I'm not rich. But give the disparity in finances, I don't ask her to contribute to any bills, ie she pays no rent, no insurance, no council tax..instead the agreement is she buys the food for the household and pays for her car. She always says she has no spare cash so this arrangement has been in place for over a year
We are now facing some unexpected bills and I thought it reasonable to ask if she could contribute. When she said she had no spare cash I felt obliged to ask where the hell it all goes. She has 2 kids, one is grown up, one 16, I fully expected her to say most goes on them. But no..it transpires she paying 400 quid a month to the hmrc as her ex husband tried to swindle child tax credits when they were together, and she's liable to pay back half of it. She hasnt once mentioned this to me in all the time weve been togther. And This despite her apparently getting not a penny from him in the divorce settlement
Speaking of the divorce (and I posted about this in another thread) I don't even know if she is actually still married, she got some court papers 8 months ago which she claims she responded to objecting to the terms but apparently hasn't heard back 8 months later......which sounds highly unlikely
I'm frankly furious. Not because she doesn't have any money, but because she has been blatantly dishonest with me
Given how I'm feeling right now, I'm genuinely thinking of ending things, but then id need to kick her out, and she has absolutely no where else to go.
You might want to have a honest discussion about finances so you know where you stand, but a lot of people are pretty embarassed about talking about money, and past debts they may have picked up. I assume she'll be paying that 400 for a while, so clearing the air on that is a good idea.
Given that has happened a lack of money from the divorce and a lot of messy, unclear paperwork doesn't seem that surprising.
Ultimately it's only money. Worse things happen
Do not underestimate how hard it is to live on minimum wage.
I suspect that the money/trust issue is just a trigger for other things going on in the relationship.
The lack of trust is my big concern here, I'm sure I would really struggle with the position you're in. If she keeps holding stuff back from you and doesn't even know the status of her marriage then I think I'd be reconsidering my future with her.
It sounds like you've gone above and beyond, certainly reading your previous post.
Whatever you decide, good luck!
wbo makes a great point about embarrassment, but the air needs clearing to determine her financial situation to restore your trust in her and your relationship going forward. Money is a niggling wound in many relationships.
That £400 a month is about a quarter of her pay, which seems excessive. Might be worth talking to Debt Management at HMRC to see if it can be reduced.
Though is the ex not still paying towards the 16 year old?
This sounds like a sit down and have an honest chat sort of thing first, not necessarily go straight to the full nuclear option of end it and kick out. There may be real reasons for lack of disclosure.
Sounds like a confused and confusing situation, I'd want a full and frank conversation about all aspects of it myself but do bear in mind that she's probably terrified of what may happen & you are in a position of not inconsiderable power in the relationship - it's much easier to talk about money when you have some than when you do not, so tread gently. Good luck with it all.
If you can kick a relationship into touch over this it wasn't much of a relationship to start with.
Do not underestimate how hard it is to live on minimum wage.
I don't...but her take home is roughly 1500 after tax. After I pay mortgage, council tax, bills etc etc then I have less left than that! And she pays none of those things
The lack of trust is my big concern
This is the thing. She doesn't seem to ever take things seriously. Stuff like her divorce, after 20 years she should have been entitled to a significant amount of assets, she pretty much signed away everything, never spoke to a lawyer despite me constantly telling her to do so. She clearly knows the status of her divorce and won't tell me honestly
I don't want to end things, and if I kick her out she'll be screwed. But I'm not prepared to be lied to regardless of whether she's embarrassed or not.
she's probably terrified of what may happen & you are in a position of not inconsiderable power in the relationship -
Well this is probably true. I always knew she was skint however, that was never the issue
If you can kick a relationship into touch over this it wasn't much of a relationship to start with.
Kick her into touch for what? If you found out your wife had been telling you lies and half truths fir the past year woukd you be OK with it? This isn't about the money, its about lack of honesty
Did she tell lies ? Or just not tell you something ? Sounds like when you asked her questions she told you the truth ?
Kick her into touch for what? If you found out your wife had been telling you lies and half truths fir the past year woukd you be OK with it? This isn't about the money, its about lack of honesty
I kept the full extent of my companies debts from my wife 16 years ago before I went bankrupt. It was only in the final months leading up to the collapse of it that she knew the full extent (£120,000 on me personally).
She knew things weren't great but many things including fear, embarrassment, stupidity kept me from revealing everything.
We're celebrating our 35th wedding anniversary in a few months.
One caveat I will add is if even after this reveal she won't let you see bank statements/credit score info (which shows debts) so you can help sort things out then that isn't a good sign.
But only you know how other aspects of your relationship work.
Did she tell lies ? Or just not tell you something ? Sounds like when you asked her questions she told you the truth ?
Well she's happily let me pay 2 grand a month in household bills because she couldn't afford to contribute. We also agreed to go on holiday last year with her kids, 15 and 17 at the time. We agreed to go halfers, and I never saw a penny of that back. To find out now that the real reason is she paying 400 quid a month to clear a debt her husband accrued is a kick in the teeth.
And yes, I've asked her what she spends her money on many times before, and this has never come up, once. I assumed she was giving it to her kids, which I'd have been fine about.
As for directly lying..maybe she genuinely doesnt know if she is divorced or not, apparently she's been awaiting a call back for about a month to confirm
If you think that's believable then fair enough. I'm rather more cynical
Did she tell lies ? Or just not tell you something ? Sounds like when you asked her questions she told you the truth ?
Well she's happily let me pay 2 grand a month in household bills because she couldn't afford to contribute. We also agreed to go on holiday last year with her kids, 15 and 17 at the time. We agreed to go halfers, and I never saw a penny of that back. To find out now that the real reason is she paying 400 quid a month to clear a debt her husband accrued is a kick in the teeth.
And yes, I've asked her what she spends her money on many times before, and this has never come up, once. I assumed she was giving it to her kids, which I'd have been fine about.
As for directly lying..maybe she genuinely doesnt know if she is divorced or not, apparently she's been awaiting a call back for about a month to confirm
If you think that's believable then fair enough. I'm rather more cynical
TBH mate, with the above posts, i'd walk away. Whether she's done anything wrong or not i'm open to debate, but clearly you're not and you've made up your mind and resent her for it... Resent is no way to have a relationship. It's done, move on.
Perhaps you are right.
If she's been lying to me then I do resent that, but as muffin man above has stated, maybe she's terrified of what will happen if she tells me the full story now
Ultimately, she will be utterly screwed if we split up, she has nowhere to go and no money. Regardless of the whether she's lied to me or not, I can't kick her out for that reason alone
Basically the situation is well and truely xxxxed
Perhaps you are right.
If she's been lying to me then I do resent that, but as muffin man above has stated, maybe she's terrified of what will happen if she tells me the full story now
Ultimately, she will be utterly screwed if we split up, she has nowhere to go and no money. Regardless of the whether she's lied to me or not, I can't kick her out for that reason alone
Basically the situation is well and truely xxxxed
The fact that she'll be screwed isn't really a great reason for keeping the relationship. Sorry, but that's really the truth.
I think embarassment can undercook it, money problems can tip right into outright shame. Shame will cause people to act completely out of character.
Not the same situation but my Mum found out via lots of bitty conversations that my Grandpa was living on the breadline.
No-one had any idea, he never said a thing because it was embarrassing, he (thought he) was a "strong make do" sort of chap, he was a bit clueless, he didn't want to make a fuss...
Money is just one of those things people hide away. They don't know much about the situation, they're embarrassed and ashamed because everything they see around them is a symbol of wealth, they don't know where to turn, they're overwhelmed. It's a head in the sand scenario.
It might not necessarily be lying, it's just not telling you anything.
Speaking of the divorce (and I posted about this in another thread) I don't even know if she is actually still married
...
Given how I'm feeling right now, I'm genuinely thinking of ending things, but then id need to kick her out, and she has absolutely no where else to go.
Point the first is easy. Stop being a fanny and ask her directly.
Point the second, well, that's her problem isn't it. If you can't have conversations like "are you married?" with someone you're living with then... 🤷♂️ For what it's worth, I thought much the same with an ex and then she became my ex the day I came home to discover that her "has nothing without me" arse had silently ****ed off. What did yours do before you rolled onto the scene?
Point the second part deux, if you're genuinely thinking of ending things then it's genuinely not just this that's an issue, is it. This is a tipping point.
If she has straight up lied, then yeah, a relationship cant be built on that.
If she hasnt been totally transparent with her finances, due to you not asking, or some level of shame etc. Then that is something that can be worked through.
Sounds like she is getting mugged off with the repayments. And whats the crack with the ex? Is he contributing to the kids? Or is it 50/50 joint custody? Could you assist her with finances? If she is willing to disclose everything, help her budget, set goals, reduce debt etc.
As for the divorce thing, I guess some folk put things out of their mind if its a less desirable part of life. Again, maybe its something you can support and help with?
Most of your posts seem to be arguing your case to other people that you should end it with her, so it reads to me like you already think you know what you are going to do.
To find out now that the real reason is she paying 400 quid a month to clear a debt her husband accrued is a kick in the teeth.
This confuses me. If the ex-husband has accrued a debt, (presumably to child support) for not paying his way, how does the wife he's not paid it to end up getting charged?
If you are genuinely looking for advice here, and not just validation of a decision you already made, I'd suggest you should be talking to a debt management charity together and working to plan/manage towards a more sustainable footing. Here's one - https://nationaldebtline.org/ I can't vouch for their services.
This confuses me. If the ex-husband has accrued a debt, (presumably to child support) for not paying his way, how does the wife he's not paid it to end up getting charged?
Same. I think there's some aspects of the story that don't add up but the only way to resolve it is to sit down with all the relevant documents, bank statements etc and go through it honestly and clearly.
Equally, HMRC aren't renowned for their caring nature, they'll go after actual or perceived debts via whatever means they can. Unless it's Amazon or Starbucks or billionaires...
She might even find it comes as a relief to have it all out in the open - although if she's running some kind of double life she might be less than willing to expose that.
Point the first is easy. Stop being a fanny and ask her directly.
Oh I have ..many times. Apparently she doesn't know as the court hasn't ever come back to her. My point to her has been it's not hard to find out. I reckon she thinks if she left her marriage with nothing then I'd finish with her so shes scared to tell me..whilst i may think she's an idiot for putting herself in that position after 20 years of marriage, I certainly wouldn't split up based on fact she doesn't bring anything financially to the relationship from a previous marriage!
(presumably to child support)
I don't know the full details. But as I understand it she got child credit, and they didn't disclose when her ex got another job or something so need to pay it all back.
One thing I don't understand, if she walks away from the marriage with nothing then surely she also walks away from the debt. I find it hard to beleive she has to pay their joint debts, but is entitled to none of their joint assets
Of course if suggested she speak to a lawyer ASAP. I've even offered to pay for her to meet one..that was over a month ago, unsurprisingly she hasn't bothered.
Could you assist her with finances? If she is willing to disclose everything, help her budget, set goals, reduce debt etc.
We need to have a frank discussion about this for sure.
Most of your posts seem to be arguing your case to other people that you should end it with her, so it reads to me like you already think you know what you are going to do.
Actually I don't want to end it, I honestly don't know what to do.
her take home is roughly 1500 after tax. After I pay mortgage, council tax, bills etc etc then I have less left than that! And she pays none of those things...
I always knew she was skint however
If her net income is £1,500 and yours is "less than that" after paying for everything, neither of you are skint. When I was comparatively well paid my post tax salary - the household's entire income - was £2k.
Whatever other relationship issues you may have, something (literally) doesn't add up here. If you part company she's a very long way off having nothing.
I'm rather more cynical
Why?
If my partner had covered up something she was potentially uncomfortable about discussing it, even if (and perhaps specifically because) it was a big thing, I'd be understanding. If it were a culmination of events that would be a different matter.
Basically the situation is well and truely xxxxed
Is it?
Is it really?
Are you telling us half a story?
Why is the answer here not "hey honey, let's not have an honest conversation about our debts and come up with a solution to consolidating or sacking unfair ones" rather than going DEFCON Malcolm Tucker?
I'm not seeing "****ed" from a single-sided tale. I'm seeing you not wanting to address/resolve it. If you want to **** her off then **** her off; if you don't then address it head on.
And leave your penis out of the equation, other moist places are available. 😁
Whatever other relationship issues you may have, something (literally) doesn't add up here. If you part company she's a very long way off having nothing.
Really..as has been pointed out minimum wage doesn't get you very far in this world. She has zero savings. She couldn't afford even a deposit for rent. I never claimed to be skint, not even close to it.
Money causes all sorts of things. I understand where you are coming from but only after i ended up telling fibs to the (now wife) over an emergency (read bike) fund i had. She didnt know and was rightly devastated that i hadn't told her. Honesty it didn't compute for me at the time and i thought i was being reasonable. it took years to resolve.
Ive seen a few mates relationships (sometimes many many years of marriage) break down over money. from racking up hidden debt through to, "well i bought that wardrobe so she owes me"! its shown me that many many people have many reasons why they dont want to discuss it. i reckon you'd have a better chance of half of them running naked across a field than sitting down and discussing it.
I understand that you want to do the right thing here (by her and the kids) but leave that separate for the time being. Its standard flight or fight mode and your upset (even more so its to do with an ex).
Sit down with her and tell her how upset you are and you want to work through it together. You have to ask a few difficult questions but if you dont you'll end up resenting her, that'll build and you'll be in a loveless angry relationship.
If you want to plan a future together then do a joint budget. get it all out on the table and be open and honest. You dont want to know what shes spending her money on but you'll need to know how much you both! have if you are going to plan for holidays etc.
itll take you a full day minimum and make sure she has all her documents etc (like banking logins)
Dont forget you are being as open and honest. You need to be telling her exactly what you are sending / saving etc as well. It cant be one sided.
Be in agreement that you wont judge. If you see a monthly DD for the strippers / drugs/singletrack mag or whatever then you cant be upset.
thats what id do.
Does she ever show you any letters in relation to her divorce or is all your knowledge verbal?
Surely she has a file with relevant documents in.
I find it hard to beleive she has to pay their joint debts, but is entitled to none of their joint assets
If a debt was taken out in joint names she's just as liable as her ex husband is. But is her husband also paying £400 as well?
There will be correspondence as letters will have been sent to both parties.
I don't know the full details. But as I understand it she got child credit, and they didn't disclose when her ex got another job or something so need to pay it all back.
Ah right, that makes sense. Yes, if she had some undue benefits then will remain liable to repay her half of it, although 400 quid per month sounds a lot. I think if financial circumstances have changed that can be reviewed, although taking into account household income, (i.e. yours too!) it might still be right.
I am no expert, but did get similarly stung some years ago after being made very briefly redundant.
Do not underestimate how hard it is to live on minimum wage.
It's not so difficult when you remove rent, bills, and so on from the calculations. Effectively you are then living like my grown-up kids, with significant amounts of disposable income even allowing for food, a £400 bill and paying for her car. That leaves how much every month - I think that's why the OP has picked up on the lack of money.
I've questioned my wife several times over the years about where her/our money goes. It's never been anything serious, but she really can fritter away hundreds each month on coffee, lunches, giving the kids money here and there, Vinted, etc.
I've questioned my wife several times over the years about where her/our money goes.
My wife has a horse - I don't ask these questions anymore!! 🤣
She does have a better paid job than me though!
understand where you are coming from but only after i ended up telling fibs to the (now wife) over an emergency (read bike) fund i had
Cycle to work is your friend in these situations. As money is deducted at source, it doesn't even count as real money. Its basically like tax.
A cautionary tale from my past
Back in 2007 my ex and I bought a house together. I'd sold my flat and made £20k in equity. I used £10k to pay off a car loan and my credit card. Kept £10k for savings
When we were arranging a new mortgage we agreed to borrow more than the property value. Stupid in hindsight is an understatement but it was the peak just before the bubble. From memory we borrowed an additional £25k which was going to be used to consolidate some debts she had, that she was very evasive about and to help us furnish the house
My idiot mother insisted that as a couple we should have a joint bank account with both our salaries going into that account, which I ended up agreeing to very reluctantly.
So we move in and I keep asking her to tell me what debt she has so we can use the money to pay it off and reduce payments etc. she keeps getting angry whenever I bring it up.
A few months pass, and I decided to check our bank accounts one day to find out she's blown the £25k extra we borrowed. All gone. Splurged on absolute nonsense. A relentless rate of spending on absolute crap. She'd wake up and decide she couldn't be bother doing her hair herself so she'd pop to the salon along the road and pay them £35 to do it. This would happen a few times a week. Shopping like an oligarch was a regular occurrence. Nails done every week etc. Naively I never even thought this could be possible hence why I wasn't keeping an eye on the bank accounts.
The cherry on top was when I confronted her about it, she finally revealed she had about £20k of debt across loans and credit cards.
So now the £25k is gone and she's also got £20k of debt which I had to use my £10k savings to put a dent into. That pattern of behaviour never really changed for the time we were together.
Confront her now, get definitive details on the aspects you're concerned about, and if you're not happy with the situation, walk away now. She's an adult and it'll be her responsibility to look after herself, not you
OP
I have frequently found that people ( me) get far more angry about stuff when they subconsciously know that actually they are partly ( mainly?) angry with themselves ( probably for not dealing with it earlier and better)
Take a moment and think which bits you are pissed with her about and which bits you actually know you are pissed with yourself about. Then deal with them appropriately.
Tough decisions ahead for you Im afraid.
Its not unusual for women to walk away from a marriage and not ask for a penny. I know a couple of women who have done this, despite potentially being owed into the 100's of thousands of pounds. Its a weird thing , not wanting to be seen as a gold digger , or feel beholden to their ex for whatever reason. Plus there is the screw you attitude ," I can manage on my own without any help from you , you fat lazy git. Just watch me." Then reality bites.
Hidden savings bank accounts . Massive red flag to some women . In my extensive Mumsnet research they go mental as that money should have been spent making memories ( spunked on items you can live without and expensive holidays ) if any fiscal planning for the future is not rubber stamped and shared.
Now , your immediate issue . Even after food ( £500 pcm should easily cover 3 people ) where does the rest of her cash go? She should still have £600pcm knocking around. When she says her ex defrauded HMRC .- I reckon this was a 'they' defrauded HMRC and got caught . And just how many months of £400pcm does she have to pay? And is her ex also paying this ?
If you paid for her kids and her to go on a nice holiday and she didnt give you a penny towards it, then that to me sounds very much like you are being taken for a ride and are now the cash benefactor enabling an acceptable way of life that most single ( maybe ) Mums could only dream of . No mtg / rent , no bills , holidays . Lovely gig if you can get it.
Solution. Very very tricky, maybe ask her some straight forward questions , some you know the answer to . Do it when your alone in the house . Dress it up as helping her with uni funds for the kids / house deposit fund for the kids . Or sorting out a pension / ISA for her . See if theres actual answers , or the 'I dunno ' when it comes to specifics ,only on small things like If your still married or not for example. Either way , continuing as is is not really an option and If you have to end it then its no longer your problem .
Good Luck .
When she says her ex defrauded HMRC .- I reckon this was a 'they' defrauded HMRC and got caught . And just how many months of £400pcm does she have to pay?
If you've ever had the misfortune of having to negotiate your way around child tax credits and their Byzantine systems you might understand how unfair that is. We are currently repaying them despite telling them immediately of a mid year change of circumstances which got backdated to the beginning of that year. They, like lots of government departments, aren't easy to deal with.
I had it for a while where Mrs Weeksy go the child credits, then i got a refund of £1300 which i spent, then they came after me for the £1300.... Which was bizarre as i'd never had it in the first place 😀
Really..as has been pointed out minimum wage doesn't get you very far in this world. She has zero savings. She couldn't afford even a deposit for rent. I never claimed to be skint, not even close to it.
Then offer to pay her rental deposit from your "not even close to being skint"-ness as a leaving present when you tell her to pack her bags and **** off? Do I have to think of everything?
I'm not being entirely serious of course, but you're just making excuses. Either you want this relationship to succeed and are prepared to put some effort into dealing with that, or you're already through and are now just here seeking validation.
There's a lot of money going somewhere. Where? She's pissing away £1500 a month and yet she can't scrape together a rental deposit? Bullshit she can't, she doesn't want to and you don't want her to have to because you feel responsible. Do you want to borrow my tee-shirt whilst we watch the movie?
Cards on the table or **** off, them's your binary options. Option 3 is - and this may be as much your problem as hers - do you want to make a home with someone you don't/can't trust?
- I reckon this was a 'they' defrauded HMRC and got caught
It's interesting as the issue came to a head when I realised I'd cocked up my council tax. No intention to defraud, i was chatting to my neighbour complaining about how much we pay when the bins never get collected and when he said ' yeah 3k a year is a scandal ' I thought, hang about I don't pay that much. Then realised I'd forgotten to change my status from single occupancy.
So as an honest chap I called then up right away, told then I'd totally forgotten to update, and rather than pretend she'd moved in yesterday, informed them exactly how long she'd been here for
'No problem sir, thanks for letting us know. You owe us £1300 quid'....
Its not unusual for women to walk away from a marriage and not ask for a penny. I know a couple of women who have done this, despite potentially being owed into the 100's of thousands of pounds. Its a weird thing
It's a throwback. Do you know many men who have done the same?
Once of a time, my ex was on triple my salary. She came to me with **** all and left out of the blue via a Dear John email. Half a house, then?
money problems can tip right into outright shame.
I used to volunteer for the Samaritans. A good percentage of the folks we'd talk to; money, more specifically hiding debt from partners was the root of many many people's darkest moments. Don't underestimate the lengths people will go to not talk about it, to avoid thinking about it, or just ignore it in the hope it'll go away.
But still, it's probably best if you have a 'cards on the table' chat. Go gently though.
Do you know many men who have done the same?
Me, I did. Started from scratch when I could've walked away with about a hundred thou. But it means that now my ex is mortgage free (which is a good thing) and I'm alright anyway. Wouldn't change what I did either.
Empathy isn't a strong point of yours is it cougar...
Anyway, thanks for the responses everyone
...she pretty much signed away everything, never spoke to a lawyer despite me constantly telling her to do so.Perhaps she's had enough of men telling her what to do after the last one got her in bother with HMRC? But I think your "she doesn't take anything seriously" is far more common that you think. Someone else said "surely she's got it all in a folder", oh how naive you all are. Certainly, there are organised people who have everything in a file, and who get independent advice, etc. Those people are not usually in a financial mess, and whilst they might not be well paid, they can usually find ways to get beyond minimum wage. There are lots of people who muddle through life in a state of chaos, often because a partner either controlled their life or did everything for them, sometimes because they aren't very good with forms and paperwork or numbers and spreadsheets. When you meet someone who is in their forties who on the face of things is getting by in life but you realise actually doesn't have a great grasp of reading, or who is financially totally out of control its often not a sign of their failings but of society, the education system and everyone around them who made it unapproachable to get help when the struggled.
She clearly knows the status of her divorce and won't tell me honestly
There's three obvious possibilities here:
1. She has no idea, because dealing with the courts is a nightmare for the general public. They talk in funny language, they are almost as hard to get through to on the phone as a GP appointment and the overworked staff don't really have the patience to explain to someone who is mid-divorce but can't find the case reference number and doesn't understand the process, how to get information. They are also spectacularly archaic in how they do things and so hearings are often face to face, forms are on paper and why send an email when a letter will do!
2. The divorce has gone through, she is now divorced on terms you don't approve of, and told her she would be an idiot to accept. She is scared to tell you that she's divorced and come away with nothing and worried how you will react.
3. The divorce is still pending and she's hoping to pocket some cash because you helped her out, but she's not telling you because once the money comes in she's off...
To me they are all plausable. No 2 is a you problem. No 1 is quite believable to me, and the fact she's not asking you for help probably also means there's a bit of a you problem. You can tell me no 2 is not real, but you are asking a bunch of strangers for relationship and financial advice on a MTB forum - that's not the sign of someone who is looking to calmly chat through stuff and doesn't care what the outcome is. You might think you are but your OP says you are furious, and another post cynical etc. If the shoe was on the other foot how keen would you be to have that discussion?
In terms of a fair household split - if she moves out how much "less" will you be paying a month? You'll save 25% on council tax but have to pay the food shopping. I suspect those roughly cancel out. Doesn't mean you've got the split right but this isn't really about money.
Empathy isn't a strong point of yours is it cougar...
Nothing to do with empathy. You solicited opinions from a collective of relative strangers, by choice as you said in your OP, so that's what you've received. You're more than welcome to ignore them of course.
I feel for you, I genuinely do. We've probably all been in variously lumpy situations, I certainly have. But if you want people to tell you what you want to hear then you're in the wrong place I'm afraid. I can't conscientiously sugar-coat that, you didn't come here for a pat on the head did you now. Sorry.
You want the relationship to work out or you don't, it really is that simple. That decision is on you, we can then work with either conclusion. What do you want?
Nothing you've said here is insurmountable, what else is going on in your head or in your lives otherwise might be.
Do you know many men who have done the same?
No , actually I don't. Sorry to disappoint.
Sorry to read this and wish you all the best.
Only constructive thing I can say is I wanted to know where all my money goes so was planning writing down costs in food, house, car etc. I really cba, but my bank account does it for me. It's pretty accurate and summarises each category of spend.
Have a sit down and go through the accounts.
Yeah you both need to lay your cards on the table before taking things further...
No vague debts and never ending divorce situation.
If she's not prepared to be 100% transparrent and gets angry about it, there's no moving forward from that.
2. The divorce has gone through, she is now divorced on terms you don't approve of, and told her she would be an idiot to accept. She is scared to tell you that she's divorced and come away with nothing and worried how you will react.
Well surprise surprise, but after I sat down with her this evening and asked her to be honest with me, by total 'coincidence' apparently she found out only today that the divorce has gone through. The court apparently didn't receive the recorded letter of objection in time, despite her previous assurance that she had the delivery receipt. Obviously she wouldn't keep evidence of such a fairly critical piece of evidence of postage...I mean why would you right?🫣
No 2 is a you problem.
No it's not. Its a problem with her xxxx of an ex husband who woukd fly off the handle at her for making such a idiotic decision and as such she was probably petrified at what my reaction woukd be
In reality what was my reaction...OK fine nothing we can do about it now, let's just move on. Not worth mentioning again
I've told her she needs to be speaking to hmrc tomorrow however, as there is no way she shoukd be paying 400 quid a month back. She needs to get in writing how much in total is owed, and how long she's expected to be paying 400 quid a month. That'll quickly tell her what percentage of the debt she's paying. I expect the vast majority.
The ex sounds like a bullying, greedy xxxx tbf
Nice job fella. I respect how you've dealt with things.
I'd want to see papers confirming the divorce, and papers from HMRC explaining exactly what the debt/overpayment is, and how it's split between her and the ex... if shes paying £400 he is also surley paying £400..? I dunno how the hell you accidently rack up that kind of overpayment to justify £800 a month payback... 🤨 sounds kinda sus.
if shes paying £400 he is also surley paying £400..? I dunno how the hell you accidently rack up that kind of overpayment to justify £800 a month payback...
sounds kinda sus.
Well yes it does a little doesn't it..
If there was 50 quid missing from my pay packet a month I'd be on the phone to hr within minutes questioning exactly why.
She's having 1/4 of her salary taken every month, and she has not even questioned it. She has zero idea how much she owes, how long she'll be paying, what her split of the debt is. It's absolutely crazy it's happened for 3 months and the only reason she's calling them noe is because I've badgered her to. I know noone else who would do this?
It's nuts..
I've told her she needs to be speaking to hmrc tomorrow however,
and
the only reason she's calling them noe is because I've badgered her to.
there’s why she won’t discuss it with you. There is a you problem - you are just another man in her life telling her what to do and badgering her to do things your way.
Is she telling you the whole truth, even now? probably not; is she paying all of the debt? probably. Should she be? Who knows. Should you put up with it - I don’t know.
Some folk just aren't very good at adulting. Keeping important stuff in a folder? Dealing with our legal system? Avoiding debt? Being assertive when it counts? There's lots of holier-than-thou comments being thrown around here and little empathy for someone in a difficult position.
It's already been said that the OP is in a position of some power over their partner by dint of the accommodation position and that might be creating a bit of a barrier. Maybe being clearer about what said partner brings to the relationship and how the OP feels about them emotionally might help balance that out. I'm really not seeing much positive emotion in this thread.
I'd also like to suggest involving a 3rd party. A relationship counsellor perhaps, but one who might be able to help the OPs partner dealing with some of the financial issues too.
there’s why she won’t discuss it with you. There is a you problem - you are just another man in her life telling her what to do and badgering her to do things your way.
Well I'm going to flat out disagree with that. I'm nothing like her abusive ex
When she initially moved in she didn't have a job. I proposed she signed on which she agreed was a good idea. A month later having never mentioned it again I asked her if she'd received any money yet...nope not a penny as she 'hadn't got round to it yet'...so she lost out on money there
Next was the divorce, I told her she should see a lawyer, she agreed she should. Never mentioned it again.6 months later she hadnt. I then offered to pay for her to see one, she never got round to it. And then she missed the deadline for her divorce payments, despite me telling her she needed to get it in plenty of time, potentially having a massive impact on her life
And now we have a situation where she is losing a quarter of her wage every month, has been for 3 months, and has done nothing about it
If 'badgering' my partner to take affirmative action to protect her own interests, when she's clearly shown multiple times if I don't it'll end up to her detriment, makes me a bad person, then I'm more than happy with that
She has many many good points, but organisation, financial matters, and affirmative action are not among them. Quite simply, if I don't badger her to do stuff she won't. And that will end up very much her problem, not mine, as we've seen multiple times already
Out of interest what would you be suggesting I do here exactly? Just leaving her to her own devices is not working out for her too well is it?
I'm really not seeing much positive emotion in this thread.
She knows exactly how I feel about her, and I've explained numerous times I'm trying to help her.
there’s why she won’t discuss it with you. There is a you problem - you are just another man in her life telling her what to do and badgering her to do things your way.
Well I'm going to flat out disagree with that. I'm nothing like her abusive ex
I don't think I suggested you were - but there's clearly a spectrum and you are a man trying to control her life - quite possibly for her best interests but she seems to be resisting so clearly she isn't asking you to tell her what to do because she doesn't know.
When she initially moved in she didn't have a job. I proposed she signed on which she agreed was a good idea. A month later having never mentioned it again I asked her if she'd received any money yet...nope not a penny as she 'hadn't got round to it yet'...so she lost out on money thereNext was the divorce, I told her she should see a lawyer, she agreed she should. Never mentioned it again.6 months later she hadnt. I then offered to pay for her to see one, she never got round to it. And then she missed the deadline for her divorce payments, despite me telling her she needed to get it in plenty of time, potentially having a massive impact on her life
And now we have a situation where she is losing a quarter of her wage every month, has been for 3 months, and has done nothing about it
If 'badgering' my partner to take affirmative action to protect her own interests, when she's clearly shown multiple times if I don't it'll end up to her detriment, makes me a bad person, then I'm more than happy with that
She has many many good points, but organisation, financial matters, and affirmative action are not among them. Quite simply, if I don't badger her to do stuff she won't.
My bold - but your words. It doesn't actually seem like your interventions are particularly effective.
well you are on here asking for advice so it does seem like its become your problem anyway.And that will end up very much her problem, not mine, as we've seen multiple times already
Discuss, encourage, don't tell. I don't know the people - she might want you to help. She might even want more support - like actually joining her in meetings/calls. We can't possibly know. Perhaps some sort of 3rd party like Scotroutes suggests. Perhaps its sitting down with a budget and having a real heart to heart - nothing about ex husbands on HMRC just what you BOTH have coming in and going out and see what you agree. Perhaps a joint account to show their's mutual trust.Out of interest what would you be suggesting I do here exactly? Just leaving her to her own devices is not working out for her too well is it?
Perhaps a joint account to show their's mutual trust.
Nooöoooooooo
Even leaving aside the grammar!
NOooooooooo
Perhaps a joint account to show their's mutual trust.
Nooöoooooooo
Even leaving aside the grammar!
NOooooooooo
Hey my grammar is almost as bad as the forum formatting which didn't hightlight the words I put in bold!
If I was in her shoes, if some guy is going to start telling me how to manage my money and demanding I contribute more to the household bills I would feel much more comfortable if there was evidence of a commitment to the relationship with all the bills coming from a joint account and payments into that account at agreed amounts (by all means keep your own money for bikes, beer, handbags etc).
It doesn't actually seem like your interventions are particularly effective.
Well clearly mentioning it as a good idea once in a blue moon then letting her get on with things didnt work. Hence why im now 'badgering her' Let's see if that approach works any better
Discuss, encourage, don't tell. I don't know the people - she might want you to help. She might even want more support - like actually joining her in meetings/calls. We can't possibly know
We do discuss, I encourage her to do this stuff, there is no shouting or raised voices. We agree a way forward, then she never does anything about it
I've offered to pay for 3rd party legal support, I've put her in touch with my mates wife who turned out was a family lawyer, I've offered to attend meetings with lawyers with her...
Perhaps a joint account to show their's mutual trust.
You must be joking right....
I have however already suggested we share exactly what money we both have coming in and going out based on that suggestion yesterday. She seemed Luke warm to the idea.
Agree with most of what Poly is saying, except the joint bank account - too soon for that.
It is super early days especially as she has only been in work for such a short time. I reckon it has taken us about 22 years to get on a even keel financially - life is properly messy. Along the way we have dealt with:
15 years to extract my now wife from the financial clutches of her ex through a refusal to deal with shared property.
£50k of rent for the years the above house was unfit to live in
Pathetic child support contributions from her ex
Redundancy
1 week away from bankruptcy
No income through COVID
Adult children that are not financially independent (hasn't gone away)
The list goes on.
Some people genuinely can't engage with this stuff, demand avoidance is a real condition. When we moved house we had a paperwork bonfire to clear the decks. I found a letter in a file my wife had from HMRC, it was actually a tax rebate for a few hundred quid (would have been a significant amount at the time given the situation) with a cheque attached to the bottom. Such was her inability to deal with this stuff she had just filed it without looking at what it was, HMRC=bad news. Years past being able to cash or get a replacement. Inside I was seething, but she was so ashamed I couldn't really make it worse so whats the point in making a big thing about it.
I will always earn more, so I suppose I have a dominant financial influence, but you really need to have some patience if you want the relationship to work.
Nobody wants to be patronised, belittled etc, and in no way am I suggesting that is what you do, but until such time she acknowledges that there are important matters she is neglecting as well as not being truthful with you but importantly herself then nothing will change. Surely as a first step some sort of therapy is required to find out why she's evading personal responsibility. There'll be a reason for it but will she answer tough questions to put her on the road to hopefully making some slow but steady progress. Best of luck.
demanding I contribute more to the household bills I would feel much more comfortable if there was evidence of a commitment to the relationship with all the bills coming from a joint account
But if youd been actually paying attention im not demanding anything of the sort..all the house hold bills are paid by me...out of my account. I'm not asking her to make a contribution to any of them. Why then would she possibly need access to that account?
The only thing I've asked her for was a contribution to the backdated bill for the council tax which is a one off payment
So if I'm not asking her to contribute to household bills why am I bothered about the state of her finances you may ask. Well because she's 47, i care about her, and she has no assets whatsoever, she clearly can't manage her finances correctly, and whether she stays with me or not, in the long run that's a really bad position for someone to find themselves in
Nobody wants to be patronised, belittled etc, and in no way am I suggesting that is what you do, but until such time she acknowledges that there are important matters she is neglecting as well as not being truthful with you but importantly herself then nothing will change. Surely as a first step some sort of therapy is required to find out why she's evading personal responsibility. There'll be a reason for it but will she answer tough questions to put her on the road to hopefully making some slow but steady progress. Best of luck.
Thanks for this, I agree. But easier said than done unfortunately
A joint bank account would be crazy - this £400ppm debt needs to be clarified, there's far too many question marks and whether his partner is sensitive about it or not, it all needs to be out in the open before any further financial entanglement.
As a cynical bystander looking in, she could have an online poker gambling problem or something, stranger things have happened at sea but it needs addressing whether she likes it or not, or the relationship is ultimatley over.
This is an absolutely fascinating thread and I'm finding all the diverse views hugely interesting.
If I was in her shoes, if some guy is going to start telling me how to manage my money and demanding I contribute more to the household bills I would feel much more comfortable if there was evidence of a commitment to the relationship with all the bills coming from a joint account and payments into that account at agreed amounts (by all means keep yo
I'm intrigued by the above. I think the OP has already replied on this, so won't add any more but I'm amazed by what people think.
PoS forum
demanding I contribute more to the household bills I would feel much more comfortable if there was evidence of a commitment to the relationship with all the bills coming from a joint account
But if youd been actually paying attention im not demanding anything of the sort..all the house hold bills are paid by me...out of my account. I'm not asking her to make a contribution to any of them. Why then would she possibly need access to that account?
The only thing I've asked her for was a contribution to the backdated bill for the council tax which is a one off payment
So if I'm not asking her to contribute to household bills why am I bothered about the state of her finances you may ask. Well because she's 47, i care about her, and she has no assets whatsoever, she clearly can't manage her finances correctly, and whether she stays with me or not, in the long run that's a really bad position for someone to find themselves in
I'll tell you what I'm hearing here: I pay all the food bills, he forgot to tell the council tax about the change of status and suddenly asked me to contribute because of his mistake. Yet he believes I'm sponging off him and should be more open about my finances when its not like he's proposing a more serious relationship where we are financially tied together. Perhaps a touch of hyperbole for artistic effect but are you really asking a bunch of middle-aged (ex)mountainbikers if you should stick with your partner rather than having this discussion with her? Either that's because you want a different view, which I'm giving you, or its because she doesn't actually feel comfortable having open and frank conversations. That might not be your fault - but I doubt it is entirely hers either.
Its been a very long time since I've been at your stage of relationship; but if she's already repeatedly telling you she will do things that she doesn't there's an issue there. I encounter all sorts of people from those at 47 who are very well set up and really thinking about retirement rather than survival to those who are skimping on food for the last week of every month till the next pay cheque comes in. If your financial expectations are so far apart, I don't see how you can build a relationship, but that's not simply about you saying she is ****less, the fact you have (or think you have) made good decisions to get you to where you are now doesn't mean you should determine everything for her going forward.
"What can I do to help?", is very different from, "Here's what you should do".
If your financial expectations are so far apart, I don't see how you can build a relationship
There are millions of relationships where one partner is 'the money' person and the other is bloody clueless.
It doesn't mean the one who manages the money is the controlling partner in the relationship.
You seem to be making some big assumptions about tpbiker based on a few paragraphs of info.
I'm sorry but this has more red flags than a communist military parade...
How the hell do you not only get hit with a £400ppm payment plan from HMRC, but not know how long it will take to pay off or what the total is? is it even fair/ is she paying for her exes portion if hes done a runner and they are jointly liable?
And.. if shes on minumum wage, would they not agree to a less agressive repayment plan given the circumstances? if she were single, that kind of debt on that wage, plus all other living expenses would bankrupt her in no time at all.
It's just not adding up...
There are millions of relationships where one partner is 'the money' person and the other is bloody clueless.
It doesn't mean the one who manages the money is the controlling partner in the relationship.
Correct - but those are entered into as mutual agreement. There's zero evidence here that she actually want's tp's input (given he's had to coax the information from her) or that she values it once she's got it (given she doesn't seem to have done any of the things he told her to, or taken up his offers to help get legal advice!)
There are millions of relationships where one partner is 'the money' person and the other is bloody clueless.
It doesn't mean the one who manages the money is the controlling partner in the relationship.
Correct - but those are entered into as mutual agreement. There's zero evidence here that she actually want's tp's input (given he's had to coax the information from her) or that she values it once she's got it (given she doesn't seem to have done any of the things he told her to, or taken up his offers to help get legal advice!)
But that doesn't mean he's doing something wrong... The posts you've written make him sound like he's in the wrong here.
How the hell do you not only get hit with a £400ppm payment plan from HMRC, but not know how long it will take to pay off or what the total is?really there are lots of people that totally detached from their financial situation. Some don't read their mail, some can't read or don't understand it (HMRC correspondence is often atrocious), some just don't want to. The people that get themselves in bother with HMRC probably have a big overlap with those groups, because thats how they got the numbers wrong in the first place.
HMRC and Benefits overpayment collection people are rarely gentle on the uninitiated. Have a £million house, a huge pension pot and an accountant to negotiate on your behald and you can probably negotiate to repay a small amount a month over a long time. Have nothing and they will threaten court / prosecution / earnings arrestments etc. Its really not that different to the post office scandal - fear and complicated processes are used to get you to admit to simple errors with staff likely incentivised (or at least targetted) to maximise recovery.is it even fair/ is she paying for her exes portion if hes done a runner and they are jointly liable? And.. if shes on minumum wage, would they not agree to a less agressive repayment plan given the circumstances?
its not impossible that HMRC have taken into account her current living arrangements in determining what they expect. Ironically tp's "generosity" might actually mean she is paying more (quicker).if she were single, that kind of debt on that wage, plus all other living expenses would bankrupt her in no time at all.
How the hell do you not only get hit with a £400ppm payment plan from HMRC, but not know how long it will take to pay off or what the total is?really there are lots of people that totally detached from their financial situation. Some don't read their mail, some can't read or don't understand it (HMRC correspondence is often atrocious), some just don't want to. The people that get themselves in bother with HMRC probably have a big overlap with those groups, because thats how they got the numbers wrong in the first place.HMRC and Benefits overpayment collection people are rarely gentle on the uninitiated. Have a £million house, a huge pension pot and an accountant to negotiate on your behald and you can probably negotiate to repay a small amount a month over a long time. Have nothing and they will threaten court / prosecution / earnings arrestments etc. Its really not that different to the post office scandal - fear and complicated processes are used to get you to admit to simple errors with staff likely incentivised (or at least targetted) to maximise recovery.is it even fair/ is she paying for her exes portion if hes done a runner and they are jointly liable? And.. if shes on minumum wage, would they not agree to a less agressive repayment plan given the circumstances?its not impossible that HMRC have taken into account her current living arrangements in determining what they expect. Ironically tp's "generosity" might actually mean she is paying more (quicker).if she were single, that kind of debt on that wage, plus all other living expenses would bankrupt her in no time at all.
How would they know about her current living situation?
I will also say something is not adding up here. I'd be cautious, having been taken for a ride in a previous relationship and ending up losing a verry large amount of money over it all.
One point of note. A person can be divorced, but can have not yet reached a financial settlement. I was in this state for 8 years where my ex-wife wouldn't respond to letters from solicitors. It doesn't make much sense to me that she'd be liable to pay the HMRC yet have not reached any form of financial settlement. How did she manage to do this without the aid of a solicitor, and if she had the aid of a solicitor, they would have surely strongly advised her to get a good settlement, especially given the children?
I think you sometimes have to view a relationship with a business head on, rather than an emotional/romantic head on. Can you discuss the issues sensibly and honestly and work together on them? I struggle to see how the relationship will continue if you cannot. This effects you both, so you're not trying to "control" someone, it's something you both need to work through.
I don't know how long you've been together, but the fact that she's living with you means she potentially has a partial claim on your house, especially given the children, so I'd certainly be wanting to sort this out as soon as possible.
How the hell do you not only get hit with a £400ppm payment plan from HMRC, but not know how long it will take to pay off or what the total is?really there are lots of people that totally detached from their financial situation. Some don't read their mail, some can't read or don't understand it (HMRC correspondence is often atrocious), some just don't want to. The people that get themselves in bother with HMRC probably have a big overlap with those groups, because thats how they got the numbers wrong in the first place.HMRC and Benefits overpayment collection people are rarely gentle on the uninitiated. Have a £million house, a huge pension pot and an accountant to negotiate on your behald and you can probably negotiate to repay a small amount a month over a long time. Have nothing and they will threaten court / prosecution / earnings arrestments etc. Its really not that different to the post office scandal - fear and complicated processes are used to get you to admit to simple errors with staff likely incentivised (or at least targetted) to maximise recovery.is it even fair/ is she paying for her exes portion if hes done a runner and they are jointly liable? And.. if shes on minumum wage, would they not agree to a less agressive repayment plan given the circumstances?its not impossible that HMRC have taken into account her current living arrangements in determining what they expect. Ironically tp's "generosity" might actually mean she is paying more (quicker).if she were single, that kind of debt on that wage, plus all other living expenses would bankrupt her in no time at all.
OP doesn't even know for sure that she likes a bit of sniff and owes a drug dealer a load of money.
There's being bad with money and there's being hit with a £400 per month bill that you allegedly don't know the total of and what the repayment terms are...