After a wireless - smart speaker for a big-ish room

Best approach is go with Bluetooth speakers paired to Alexa. I have ceiling mounted ones from Lithe Audio that work off a spur from the lighting circuit. I did look at the time but couldn’t find a high quality Alexa enabled speaker.

google max?

That's a thought - can I continue with my Google Nest (I think) as the Alexa part, and ping it to the bluetooth speaker? Will the Nest deliver pretty good sound?

And, I've an old set of Mission speakers which sound great - could I bluetooth them?

If you want something simpler, a Sonos One would do the job, but you're starting to get fairly expensive if you want a pair.

The IKEA Sonos speakers aren't bad either, I have a pair in my office. The IKEA ones don't have a voice assistant built in but you can set them to be the output device for any smart device on Google so should be able to on Alexa (I have a Lenevo clock which I speak to and it plays from the IKEA Sonos speakers).

I've got two of the newer Google Nest audio speakers (not the Nest mini - these fellas) in our large kitchen/living room, also with tiled floor.  One at either end, set up as a stereo pair.  The sound is great and noticeably better than with just one, as you would imagine.  I use it with the Google assistant not Alexa as we are pretty committed to the Google universe on all devices, pretty sure you could set it up with Amazon/Alexa though.  We use it for smart devices, spotify, radio, shopping lists etc.  Works great, sounds great. I only paid about half what they are in that link, they were on special offer on the lead up to Christmas last year, worth keeping an eye out, they might do that again? Or 'Black Friday'.  I've got a couple of Nest minis too which are great for smaller rooms like our bedroom.

a little Google smart Alexa speaker

Alexa is Amazon Echo's smart assistant, they're direct competitors. It's like saying a Samsung iPad or a Windows Macbook. It sounds like you mean Google Nest but you might want to check and confirm what you actually have before continuing.

I've got Echoes set as Bluetooth stereo pairs in most commonly used rooms, so I can say things like "Alexa, play [music] downstairs" for multiroom audio. But that's of no help to you if you've got Google's devices rather than Amazon's.

And, I’ve an old set of Mission speakers which sound great – could I bluetooth them?

Assuming they're Hi-Fi speakers, they would require an amplifier and some form of BT receiver.

Yeah you need to check which ecosystem you're using, either you're on Google ("hey, Google") or Amazon ("Alexa") as they're not cross compatible. But some speakers will have both assistants on them.

Best use I've found for our smart devices this time of year? Watching telly, 30 or 40 mins before going up to bed. 'Hey Google turn blankets on'. Wife and I have independently controlled leccy blankets either side of the bed. Uber toasty by the time we go up! We live in an old cottage and it's much cheaper and more efficient than putting the bedroom radiators on.  When we are ready for kip, 'good night Google' switches them and the lights off, she asks us if we want an alarm setting, then plays sleepy music for ten minutes til we nod off.

Amazon ecosystem has the echo link amp which can directly drive bookshelf speakers and hooks into the voice control. Otherwise, if you have space, a pair of echo studios will fill a large space nicely

Apologies for my ineptitude, we're currently on 'Hey Google'.

Sounds like 2 could be the solution, and I am impressed with the Nest Mini we've got, just asking a bit much from a single one in a big room. A pair of Nests might be the solution. The Sonos get good reviews but quite spendy.

I have 2 echo 4s (the larger round ones) as a stereo pair in a large room and works surprisingly well, they also control lights in there too

I'm sure 2 Google audios set up similar would be great

Not cheap, but the Audio Pro stuff is pretty good and I think they have some smart options now.

A pair of Nests might be the solution.

Honestly, I doubled up not because I wanted to fill the space but because mono audio irritates the absolute piss out of me. It makes a surprising amount of difference, and more importantly it makes me feel like I'm not listening to music like a Gen-Z'er. 😁

In my garden office, I have a pair of Audio Pro T20's that I switch between an Amazon Show (BT), my phone (BT), or my PC (wired aux). Works for me. Thinking about adding an Audio Pro Sub, which just plugs int the back of the master T20

A timely question, and one I'm going to shamelessly piggyback on 🙂

My situation: we've been redoing the kitchen, and the Google Mini that was in the kitchen as been temporarily moved to the bedroom I use for working (I'm 100% WFH). It's a small room, about 10 m^2 at a guess. I've been using it to stream Spotify and (hate me) RadioX. While I'm there I'm working, and music is to a certain extent background noise. I'm not sitting, like Pete Murphy in a Maxell ad, waiting for crisp dynamic stereo music to blow me out of my seat.

But now the kitchen's done, and I want the speaker back there to entertain me while I'm cooking.

So the piggybacked question: given it's a small room and I'm not really paying that much attention to the music, should I get a Google Mini or an Audio? Or perhaps upgrade what I have in the kitchen?

Audio pro outlet sale this weekend but no big stuff on there, subs, a36 etc.

They don't sell to uk either, eu only.

I got the sw10 sub, love it, well worth it

they also control lights in there too

how does this work?

You talk to the speaker and it controls the lights, but how? Do you have wifi light bulbs? Or just 1 bulb that will then control all tye lights on that switch?

how does this work?

You talk to the speaker and it controls the lights, but how? Do you have wifi light bulbs? Or just 1 bulb that will then control all tye lights on that switch?

Different ways to do this, smart home stuff is a bit of a can of worms with different standards and complexity of installing.  Some use a hub which controls everything, or smart switches.  I've gone the simpler route of just buying a stack of wifi bulbs. I was replacing a load of halogen bulbs for LED anyway and multi packs of wifi bulbs are cheap on Amazon.  They are also colour changing, dimmable etc. so offer more functionality than halogen. Being LED they are also cheaper to run and longer lasting. I also bought some wifi plug socket adapters so you can control non smart devices like kettles, christmas tree lights, plug in lamps or electric blankets. These are linked to our smart speakers and phones via the Google Home app.  Works well.  You can add cameras, smart thermostats etc.

Harman Kardon Citation One MKII ticks all your boxes. I've got 3 set up around the house. Great sound (2 can be stereo paired) and bargains to be had on eBay.

Some use a hub which controls everything, or smart switches. I’ve gone the simpler route of just buying a stack of wifi bulbs.

Yeah.

1) You can use smart bulbs, in which case you need to replace each one you want to be smart which can get spendy, but you then have individual control over each bulb. Then you can group them in Alexa so you can say things like "living room lights on" or "downstairs lights green" or whatever. Some need a hub, some do not.

2) You can use smart switches to retro-fit smarts to existing bulbs which is considerably cheaper, but most require a neutral wire and most UK light switch sockets do not have such a thing present. There are workarounds but it's a bit of a faff and can be unreliable. And obviously you're restricted to existing functionality, a fancy light switch isn't suddenly going to enable regular bulbs to change colour. With (non-smart) LED bulbs, they may or may not be dimmable.

https://syngspace.com/ Best for big tiled room.

Or even maybe a Sonos 5.

Why voice control when it’s being used purely to control music playback? My experience of seeing friends attempting to get Alexa to actually respond, let alone play what they’re asking for has me trying to stifle my laughter, when in the same time I could have found the artist or album and had it playing just using my phone, where all my music is, or my iPad which shares the same library.
And don’t forget, all those connected assistants are listening to whatever you’re saying and feeding that info back to Google and/or Amazon.
I don’t have separate speakers, I listen through headphones, but if I was using something like the IKEA/Sonos system, or Apple HomePods, I still wouldn’t use voice control, I just fail to see the point, when I have all the necessary info in my pocket, or in the case of weather, I look out the sodding window!

You talk to the speaker and it controls the lights, but how? Do you have wifi light bulbs? Or just 1 bulb that will then control all tye lights on that switch?

I was redoing the roof on my conservatory so bought a govee Alexa compatible light strip and coving to mount it round the room

I also put in some cheap led panels and wired something like this in...

Nue Smart ZigBee Inline Light Dimmer Switch Compatible Echo Plus and ZigBee Bridge Hub to Control Normal Lights, LED Downlights Smart Home Automation https://amzn.eu/d/8h5uKhv

I'm no electrician and it was dead easy

You just use you google/ Alexa app to find the lights on your WiFi network , give them a name in the app and just ask Alexa or Google to turn them on/off

You can also get smart bulbs that do the same thing, which is a bit easier

Also dont listen to cz, Alexa voice recognition is great, my kids (ages 5 - 12) use it loads too, they play terrible music, mind.

Also loving that OP isnt after anything particularly flashy and he's being reccomended, Sonos, Audio Pro & £2.5k Syng!

Google or Amazon have some great options for not much money, especially second hand, but black Friday coming up you'll get a google Audio or echo 4th gen pair for <£100

JHC the human race is doomed.

And, I’ve an old set of Mission speakers which sound great – could I bluetooth them?

Might be worth a go depending on your budget. There are plenty of cheap-ish bluetooth receiver amps on Amazon.

If you have some cash burning a hole there's always the Yamaha MusicCast range. We have an AV receiver hooked up to surround sound in the living room, kitchen speaker and a wireless receiver connected to old school amp & speakers in the office. It went through a dodgy spell last year where connections would keep dropping out but a firmware update has everything back working great.

Amazon do an echo which has no speaker, it’s just a plug and an aux out. Got that going into my kitchen stereo. Works like an Alexa, uses proper speakers I already had (through a mini stereo thing as an amp) cost about £12.

No, £9:
Echo Flex – Voice control smart home devices with Alexa https://amzn.eu/d/6uWhMbU

The audio pro stuff is very nice, I got a drumfire from Amazon when they were clearing out for the new version at a tad over usual half price.

Not cheap but it’s a mad thing,once you’ve ran it in a bit it’s stunning.

Even my little AudioPro BT5 is excellent

They make lovely stuff

My experience of seeing friends attempting to get Alexa to actually respond, let alone play what they’re asking for

The Amazon show in my phone seems to work pretty well, albeit I don't use it for music much - usually just tell it to play Planet Rock.  Handily, Amazon links to my Planet Rock premium account that I have on the phone app and doesn't play adverts

Have a couple of smart plugs for lighting and a smart oil filled heater that she turns on when I tell her to

I use two older Google home speakers stereo paired in the kitchen diner. Surprisingly good sound out them. Imagine the nest audio is even better as the nest mini has better speaker than the old Google home mini

I'm fussy about sound quality, and the only 'smallish' wifi speaker I consider ok for home use is the Apple Homepod. No longer available new, but plenty of s/h ones on Ebay etc. I've listened to most Sonos products, and wouldn't bother at all as they're quite inferior yet expensive. To get better sound than the Homepod, you need to spend a lot more money ime, like north of £600 or so. And for that money I'd rather use a 'proper' hifi amp + speakers set up. There are a few very good wifi speakers capable of decent sound, from B+O, Naim, things like the aforementioned Syng, but they're all very expensive. I have yet to hear an Amazon/Google speaker that sounds ok in a medium to large sized room. The larger Audiopro speakers are good, but I've found the smaller ones to be somewhat lacking really. If you want big sound, you need a bigger speaker really, it's simple physics.

And, I’ve an old set of Mission speakers which sound great – could I bluetooth them?

You can definitely add some wifi connectivity to them, via a streaming amp, say, or a separate streaming device plugged into an amp. I use a Bluesound Node into a separate amp and speaker set up, but there are many devices that can be used for such purposes. Will definitely offer better sound than most smaller wireless speakers.

Fortunately I managed to get my Audio Pro T20's half price (£325, I think) from the outlet store when they shipped to the UK. There wasn't even a mark on them

Another vote for Audio Pro - the cheaper stuff they do still sounds awesome.

Only listened in Currys, but the C10 seemed considerably better then the C5

For the original question it seems the user is not 100% tech savvy, so to start connecting Bluetooth speakers to a smart speaker is a bit much. As they are already happy with a single mini getting a second one to make it stereo is a very good and cheap solution. If they are after a bit more power then a pair of Google nest (full size) in stereo pair would be great. It's what we will do in that same situation when we get our kitchen done next year.

so to start connecting Bluetooth speakers to a smart speaker is a bit much. As they are already happy with a single mini getting a second one to make it stereo is a very good and cheap solution

You'd have to be REALlY tech unsavvy to not be able to connect a BT speaker tbf - no more difficult than making two speakers into a stereo pair at a guess

Another vote for AudioPro. I have a pair of their bookshelf speakers and a C5. Fantastic sound quality

You’d have to be REALlY tech unsavvy to not be able to connect a BT speaker tbf – no more difficult than making two speakers into a stereo pair at a guess

True but aus wasn't even sure if the difference between Google and Amazon devices. Not a dig. Some people just aren't interested. I'm a big nerdy smarthome nut. But I've also worked in IT so have some empathy for un-techsavvy folk.

Thanks all - really helpful. Just a minefield if you're entering as a newbie into this whole area!

MarkyG82 got it right - I'm not esp tech interested (hence Alexa and Google voice being much of a muchness to me!!) but probably reasonably OK at getting tech solutions done, am fine working on car/motorbike electricals and pretty good at spannering so would be happy to explore bluetooth options.

The one thing that has struck us having experienced a Google Nest Mini is just the ease of selecting, playing music ... v lazy I know, but I don't have my phone on me all the time, and Mrs A loves the voice control. So I reckon that's a core requirement.

I'd come from a 1970's Marantz amp hooked up to Mission speakers, so a little dated ... but the sound is brilliant. I'm not an a big time audiophile, but like a pretty decent sound, and really enjoy music, so much as the Nest Mini is incredibly good for what it is, at an absolute level it's so-so!

I was maybe naively working off a basis that a speaker unit would need to be visibly big to produce good sound ... seems not a necessity.

We've borrowed a second Nest Mini and paired them and it's noticeably better. But, still feels 'thin'.

Thanks for all the pointers ... will peruse!

If you already have a pair of nice speakers, don't care for voice control and want Bluetooth then a Tangent Ampster BT2 is a great choice. A very small but decent amp that will connect to phones via BT. Otherwise a pair of Sonos 1's (or used 3's which are cheap now) would be my choice. Our house has all of the above in various rooms. I like the Sonos 3's and don't care for voice control, personally.

I use an original echo dot with a line out to my Audioengine A2 active speakers, perfectly decent enough sound quality for kitchen duties, perhaps something similar would do for yourself. You can get the original A2's for £100ish and an original echo dot for £5 or the bluetooth version for £180ish and link/bluetooth them to your original google speaker.

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I was maybe naively working off a basis that a speaker unit would need to be visibly big to produce good sound … seems not a necessity.

Well, it depends. If you want proper thunderous bass, then you need large drivers to push large volumes of air. Simple physics. Not quite as simple as that; a 'long excursion' woofer of smaller diameter can produce more bass than a larger diameter shorter excursion one can, but you can also have issues with distortion, which is why most top end speaker manufacturers go for larger diameter cones on their speakers. But 'good sound' is all about the quality of the speaker units themselves, and the design of the cabinets. I use a pair of Focal Aria speakers, which I've found the 'sweet spot' between sound quality and price, for my own personal needs. Probably amongst the best 'modest' sized home speakers. If I had a larger space, I'd be going for physically larger speakers. I heard a pair of Klipsch LaScala speakers recently, and they are absolutely superb, but huuuuge. 1m x 60 x 65cm, and 80 kilos! Most wireless speakers are constructed using cheap components, with a lot of marketing. Stuffing all those electronics into a small package and getting it to sound good, is very difficult. Again, my preference is for Apple Homepods over any Sonos products, simply because they use a better design.

Sounds to me that what you really need, is a small streamer that will connect to your existing amp and speakers. You'll need something with analogue output, unless you want to replace your amp with a streaming amplifier. For voice control, you'll have to look a b it further. I'm not bothered with such, but hopefully someone else can advise on that score.

Just had a thought.
If you can find one, you could connect a Chromecast Audio to your Marantz amp & Mission speakers, then set-up the Google Nest Mini you already have so any music commands get played through the Chromecast Audio and hence through the amp/speakers.

Only thing is that Chromecast Audios are no longer sold, so it would have to be a second hand one. No idea why they stopped selling them.

Only thing is that Chromecast Audios are no longer sold, so it would have to be a second hand one. No idea why they stopped selling them.

The Wiim mini streamer below has taken over from the chromecast audio device.

Wiim mini streamer

ikea symnfonisk's are on offer at the moment.

currently £84 for essentially a sonos one in a neater package. I've got 3 of them around the house and might buy a couple more at that price.

The Wiim mini streamer below has taken over from the chromecast audio device.

At one hundred quid?

It certainly hasn't "taken over" from chromecast audio at that price!

Amazon make a range of Echos with better speakers. Will probably be heavily discounted for "Black Friday" week.

However for us the best option by far was an Echo Link with the output connected to my HiFi. You can connect a normal Echo to a HiFi with a 3.5mm jack but that means the HiFi has to be on if you want to ask the Echo for other stuff because it turns off the internal speaker. A Link is a separate device just for music.

Sounds to me that what you really need, is a small streamer that will connect to your existing amp and speakers. You’ll need something with analogue output

See above - that's what the Link is. You can use a cheap Echo Dot to control it.

somafunk

The Wiim mini streamer below has taken over from the chromecast audio device.

It's not a Google device though. And it's a lot more expensive than the Chromecast Audio used to be - I think I paid £20 for mine.
It also doesn't support Google Assistant (or whatever it's called) - only Siri or Alexa.

When they announced they were stopping selling them, I bought 4. I am using two and two are still unopened in the boxes. I keep thinking I should chuck them on ebay, but you can guarantee that a few days after selling them I'll find I really need one.

FWIW, just got my Marantz amp, Mission speakers plugged back in, and the sound 'enjoyability' is brilliant Vs the albeit, good little Nest speakers.

But voice control is a requirement for Mrs A ... so thinking Santa could try and find a bargain Audio Pro C10 II, and the amp/speakers go to my workplace!

I've got two Sonos One,s mounted high and then a sub in a big kitchen diner. Sounds great although I did have to dial back the sub from it's autotuned setting as other parts of the house were vibrating :->

Dad has got Sonos 5s and I don't rate the sound by comparison. Could be his room acoustics I guess.

Do any of the Amazon Echo devices have an optical out? I'm thinking not

Currently sat in my office listening to a Tidal Master of Electric Ladyland via PC to my T20's, but I can't make the best of my connections, albeit, it sounds great - soundstage and detail are very good

The T20's have aptx BT, but no aptxHD/Adaptive, so whilst BT streaming sounds good - it's not making the most of it

Current connection is using the PC DAC and out to the T20's via 3.5mm to RCA. The T20's have optical in, but the PC doesn't have optical out. I'd rather make use of the Audio Pro onboard DAC

If I could find an Echo with Optical, I'd switch to Amazon Music HD, which is cheaper (already have Prime)

What other options are there?

If I could find an Echo with Optical,

Echo studio does iirc, but they're not cheap

Echo studio does iirc, but they’re not cheap

Just looked and seems like it's just a mini toslink line in

@aus You could jut use a Bluetooth receiver with the hifi amp and still use voice activation on the Nest.

A quick read up on the Nest suggests it remembers the last connected Bluetooth device so once set up it should work smoothly.

Something like the below is around £25 from Amazon so worth a play before you give up on sound quality.

https://www.1mii.com/b06hd/

CountZero
Full Member
Why voice control when it’s being used purely to control music playback? My experience of seeing friends attempting to get Alexa to actually respond, let alone play what they’re asking for has me trying to stifle my laughter, when in the same time I could have found the artist or album and had it playing just using my phone, where all my music is, or my iPad which shares the same library.
And don’t forget, all those connected assistants are listening to whatever you’re saying and feeding that info back to Google and/or Amazon.

You don’t think smart phones are also listening and feeding info back?

@TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR You could use the Wiim streamer as linked above, as it has native support for Amazon HD and sounds very nice indeed through its optical output.

It will also connect to a home music server and many other things and is all controlled through a phone.

Great bit of kit and much better than anything an Echo device of any sort can produce.

@TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR You could use the Wiim streamer as linked above, as it has native support for Amazon HD and sounds very nice indeed through its optical output.

It will also connect to a home music server and many other things and is all controlled through a phone.

Great bit of kit and much better than anything an Echo device of any sort can produce.

I glanced at that elsewhere and it seemed to be a fruit based device - does it do what's required away from ios? How does it receive the HD stream? It also states in some blurb that it supports Tidal connect and Tidal Master, then states (no MQA)??? I'm confuzzled

*edit - just lookng at the link above and it seems it works with Android

The Wiim connects to the Amazon servers directly and streams over your wi-fi, no other devices needed - other than to actually control it.

For more info, they have their own forum and it seems quite busy. I got myself on the developer team which gave me Amazon HD before it was released. Just how much difference there is in such streams is another question but, it can do it.

https://wiim.community.forum/

Or if you wish to keep using the pc, you could get a USB to optical converter and use the Amazon music app in Windows.
That opens up a world of EQ possibilities if you want to get into room correction etc, but isn't something I've done myself.

Or if you wish to keep using the pc, you could get a USB to optical converter and use the Amazon music app in Windows.
That opens up a world of EQ possibilities if you want to get into room correction etc, but isn’t something I’ve done myself.

Well, there you go - I didn't even know USB to optical was a thing. May as well just keep using the PC.

But then I've read that only certain DAC's will unfold MQA anyway

Got a pair of Sonos 5's in the living room and then a mixture of 1's and 3's in the rest of the house. The 5's sound great - to me.

Well, there you go – I didn’t even know USB to optical was a thing. May as well just keep using the PC.

But then I’ve read that only certain DAC’s will unfold MQA anyway

If you want to get really enthused, Amazon are doing a Topping D10s DAC / converter for a good price at the mo.

I use one to go from USB to optical, as could you, but it is also a great DAC so you could also use RCA out into the speakers if the DAC on the D10s gives more than the one in the speakers.

Do any of the Amazon Echo devices have an optical out? I’m thinking not

Echo Link does.

Great little device. It has its own volume knob, so I've got mine connected directly to my power amp to remove an extra processing stage, although it needed some signal attenuators to reduce the volume range. Sounds extremely clear, much more so than the CD player before it, but it's a little less warm.

Why voice control when it’s being used purely to control music playback? My experience of seeing friends attempting to get Alexa to actually respond, let alone play what they’re asking for has me trying to stifle my laughter

Meh - it works for me. You can also hunt for your stuff on your phone if you'd rather not use voice.

That’s a thought – can I continue with my Google Nest (I think) as the Alexa part, and ping it to the bluetooth speaker? Will the Nest deliver pretty good sound?

I have some Bluetooth active speakers in my kitchen. They sound great when streaming directly from my phone, and dreadful when streaming from a Google mini. I've no idea why.

I have some Bluetooth active speakers in my kitchen. They sound great when streaming directly from my phone, and dreadful when streaming from a Google mini. I’ve no idea why.

Have you checked how each device is outputting? What frequency/bitrate/bluetooth codec? What's the source material for each?

I find Chromecast Audio a bit hit and miss connected via line-in to my Denon mini-system