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Currently commuting on a Honda NC700x and its very adequate. Bit small for me (6’1”), but goes and stops does everything adequately, every day for the last 5 years. Cheap as chips. Adequate.
However, some significant life events have made think, screw it’s just too dull and I want moar, also have aspirations of taking the kids touring on something after reading of others exploits. There’s a tempting year old 1090 at the local dealers for 8k along with a similar Africa Twin.
So before I go test riding one or both of them and end up buying the shiny one what should I be looking out for, or any alternatives?
Had a look at the Tiger 800, but a bit meh.
Cheers all.
If you want turnkey reliability get the twin. But you already have a Honda......
Have you checked out a Multistrada? Might not start but fun when it does
November is KTM model refresh time, so you should be looking for a decent bundle of bits thrown in with the deal. That cascades down through to the second hand market with a load of pre-regs available in dec and jan. Last year you could pick up a discounted brand new 1090 for less than 10k, with a full set of boxes and an akrapoviç, with the pre-regs being considerably cheaper.
Get a dealer to price up finance on brand new. Both Honda and KTM have very good 0 or near as damnit 0% finance (pcp or hp). Second hand you’ll be looking at 6-20% from a stealer so it may make sense to try for new.
New Yamaha Tenere' ?
Mate has owned both, currently owns the 1090. He says the 1090 is a much better bike than the AT. I've ridden his 1090 and it was indeed lovely.... But i am a KTM fanboi. 🙂
Test rode a 1090 Adventure and an Africa Twin but ended up buying an old twin cam oil cooled GS. Rode so much better than both and the shaft drive is a bonus
Test rode a 1090 Adventure and an Africa Twin but ended up buying an old twin cam oil cooled GS.
Yeah I tested a 1090 a while ago. It was a bit numb. Cannot say that, at all, of my 1290sas.
I always wanted an Africa Twin, haven't made them for years IIRC...
Eh ? There's a new one...
Eh ? There’s a new one…
Fair enough, not kept up for years. I was harking after the 90s one....
Next you'll tell me they've brought back the Pan European, always wanted one of those as well...
First test for an adventure bike for real adventures: stick it in a ditch, and then try and lift it out.
Now do it again with full luggage.
Second test: push it through unrideable deep sand for a mile (you can have the engine idling in gear)
Now do it again with full luggage. Even better do it in full leathers at 40ºC.
Third test: lie on the ground and get a mate to lay the bike on top off you. Extricate yourself.
Yes, do it again with etc...
🙂
First test for an adventure bike for real adventures: stick it in a ditch, and then try and lift it out.
Now do it again with full luggage.
Only adventure riding I've done was on a Suzuki DR350, which you could just about drag if you had to, although wouldn't want to have to drag it very far....
I’m no Charlie Boardman, I like the upright position with good visibility and that they are relatively narrow for getting through traffic.
@hot_fiat, interesting news, they do also have a fresh from the crate bike with full luggage for 10k. It’s over my budget even with a low interest rate but is tempting given how much I would need to spend just getting a top box for the spare lid for off spring ferrying.
Thanks all some good stuff here. The reviews I’ve seen on the youtubes echo what’s been said so far.
If you don't want to go off road. Then have a look at the BMW S1000XR if you want upright, comfy, ability tour two up and fast and fun.
Yeah but an IL4 engine 🙁
they're impressive though.
Very true Weeksy and its the only criticism I can level at it and that its a little bit characterless.
Its a lot of fun once you get going on it and it goes a lot better than it looks 🙂 It deffo surprises a few people especially as its wearing a coffin sized top box on mine 🙂
As you may remember from other posts I am a big Aprilia fan, and what we really need is the 1100 V4 in a Caponord 🙂
If not I will probably buy another XR once this one has a billion miles on it 😀
Having had a higher reving Fazer before, I much prefer twins, s****. It’s an interesting throw in though, I’ve had a quick blast on a mates GS and that was nice but was a bit wide in the beam.
Any other options? I think 8k max ticket price to allow for 2-3k trade in on the NC.
Only adventure riding I’ve done was on a Suzuki DR350,
Loved my old DR350, indestructible, really easy to wheelie through the gears.
Ooooo @hot_fiat, you and your brappage temptations. Not quite got the year round weather protection I could hide behind though.
Loved my old DR350, indestructible, really easy to wheelie through the gears.
Yes, I almost went off the back of it riding over a mound somewhere in Turkey, opened the throttle inadvertently leaning back and wheelied off by accident....
I'll bet a Tiger 800 is better built and more reliable than the KTM ...
Oooh look givi do a top box. Its blistering with tech too.
Weather protection? Pah! My 950sm at the top of Stelvio, in the snow. No heated grips, screen or any semblance of comfort for 2500miles. In total I put 32k on that bike. Supermotos are much more practical than you'd think.
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I’ll bet a Tiger 800 is better built and more reliable than the KTM …
Hahaha I bet it's not! Triumph make JLR products look like they're well screwed together...and I own an Italian bike...
Oh, there it is...
...pulls up chair..
And also, @hot_fiat, methinks your username is not just because you rag the pants of your Doblo?
Lol the lc8 engine is bullet proof, used for gazillion of miles in many many KTM s, the build quality on the 1090 us superb.
You had a look at the f850gs/GSA? I have the older 800. The engine on mine is a bore. The engine on the 850 is much more fun. A nice amount of low down grunt, getting towards the 1200, but feeling slimmer and lighter.
Hmm lc8 is reasonably reliable, if you discount the early issues with starters and water pumps. Also, big mileage tends to result in head bolt stretch / timing chain channel wear (like mine did), though these faults are fixed on the modern ones.
Yes I rag my small fiats everywhere.
Love my 950 SMR, especially with its akra’s😁. Though the tiny tank means fill ups every 95 miles so I’m on first name terms with most of the petrol stations on my commute
I had the Africa twin for 2 years and changed it for the 1090 adventure. Would go back to an AT though lol
Different bikes tbh, the AT is much better off road. The 1090 is much better on road and track. I’ve used both off road, road and track.
KTM engine is much stronger and genuinely fast, the AT not so much if that matters. Decide what use it’s for, if it’s all road go for the KTM. If off road comes into it then the Honda wins.
Here’s some daftness
Ooh I love Africa Twins, would love to have a new one now, just for old times here's mine I got in the early 90's:
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and the pre-cursor I had from the mid-80's, an XLV750R shaft drive air cooled twin:
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Went all over the place on them for years, so reliable. Sorry I don't know much about KTM's but I like the look of them
Should add the 1090 was £8800 new OTR. some still around at that price
What about the Yamaha pair; the Super Tenere or the 700cc Tenere which gets decent reviews.
There's a new Triumph Tiger 800 (now a 900) out later this year, might be worth a look.
Thanks all some good suggestions to follow up on. In the mean time I have put a holding deposit down on the 1090 so I can have a go on it (must get a lot of piss takers I guess) and it needs to go through the workshop which has a 10 day lead time.
This particular bike has some ktm bling thrown at it, personal favourite to try out is the heated seats!! Heated seats I tell you! I won’t know what to do with myself...
heated grips are my latest best friend forever !
Flange - where on earth do you get that from? I had 7 Triumphs on the trot before my current BMW 800 and not one of them missed a beat or had any corrosion at all. Every time I read a test on a KTM there always seems to be some 'small' issue that the testers are willing to ignore. I've seen some really tatty ones, too. I know they are good bikes, but better built than Triumph? I don't think so.
Heated seats I tell you! I won’t know what to do with myself…
Heated grips etc, are great till you keep commuting in winter on cold mornings and you fall off on some ice....apparently, someone told me...
Well, I had a brand new street triple that was nothing but aggro - it spent more time in the shop than it did being ridden, including most of the first summer I owned it. Plus random bits constantly fell off it. I'd call it a outlier but my mate bought one at the same time and had similar trouble with it. Maybe the newer ones are better and when it did work it was ace, but it's left a sour taste in my mouth regarding buying another Triumph.
Maybe it's about perspective - I've bought a second hand Ducati and every time I go out, I expect it to break but that doesn't seem to bother me. Maybe if I'd bought it new I'd be more annoyed.
Well, as I said, I had zero problems with any of them. The older ones were, if anything, over engineered. You are genuinely the first person I've ever heard of having big problems. I've never had a Street Triple, but I've ridden one and if I didn't carry a pillion now and then, I'd have one in a heartbeat. Anyway, I just hope this BMW proves as reliable ......
How about Tenere 700.
Good write up here:
https://www.rustsports.com/issues/
Issue 43. Pages 32 to 47.
The heated seats on my 1290 are awesome. What it really needs though is air conditioning for your crotch. There’s A LOT of heat escapes out the top of the engine in traffic.
Couple of mates had some minor niggles with speed and street triples. Nothing major just sensors triggering ECU lights unnecessarily.
Tenere 700 if off road is to feature into your riding.
Looks like Yamaha have hit the nail on the head for a true go anywhere ,cheap,fun , economical,adventure bike.
Should be fun and reliable as well as the cp2 engine has proved in the mt07 and tracer.
If you don't want to go off road and big miles on the road is your thing then one of the already mentioned bikes above would probably be better. Also consider tracer 900?
So, I didn’t die.
Initial thoughts, it’s high up.
After that it was the noise, even on tick over I could hear it cracking from one cylinder to another, definitely purposeful.
Getting on after the NC700 and it initially feels much bulkier up front and more intimidating because of its noise and size. I was just about on the balls of my feet.
And so, a tentative feed out of the light clutch and... all the size and bulk disappears. Oddly my feet are closer together on the pegs across the bike than the NC, and it’s super easy to bimble about through town, really predictable steering and smooth. Get out to the lanes and it continues, no drama, no death, just really easy and super smooth ride. A raz up the motorway shows a cosseted bubble of air to sit in, vibes the same as the NC. All good.
As I was already overheating I didn’t get then chance to try out the heated seats or grips due to the threat of sweaty death.
Downsides, the indicator switch is a real pain in the plums to get too with your thumb. Insurance, my NC was £180 a year FC, this is looking at £7-800, ouch.
So some cogitation for tomorrow, it was a lovely thing but it will be a regular payment for the next 3-4 years that should probably go on new sofas, and the insurance is a little (a lot) wince inducing.
It does feel odd to be dropping this amount of cash on something that is 100% for me, but will use at least every week day. But as I hinted at in the original post, you only live once, so **** it?
What would STW do?
Did you move the seat? AFAIK they have two positions.
Buying a motorbike is something of a spiritual thing. It has to feel right.
Buying a motorbike is something of a spiritual thing. It has to feel right.
Agreed 100%. If it doesn't feel right, and you don't have a passion for riding it, then for gods sake don't buy it! Especially not if you're financing it... And this is highly personal, what floats my boat might send you to sleep and vice versa!
I keep looking at the KTM 1090 Adventures, the pricing is very keen now they've been discontinued, it's enough power without being too silly, it gets great reviews etc. But I just can't bring myself to go for an Adventure bike if I'm not going offroad! Besides, everyone ends up with a BMW GS anyway if they go down the Adventure bike route, I'm told with good reason, but I just have no passion for them!
I've test ridden a KTM SuperDuke GT, staggeringly quick and capable but it left me quite cold I'll be honest. I'm a big V-Twin fan, and even have another bike with an LC8 in it (RC8 1190), but it felt rather more lumpy than other twins I've owned/ridden, and though progress was monumentally quick, the engine doesn't like to rev much either! So I was so busy changing gear it felt more like riding a 250GP bike than a continent crushing Sports Tourer...
So for now, I'm stuck with an old Honda Blackbird I bought just to see if the missus liked coming out on the back with me. She does, loves it in fact, so been on the hunt for something much newer and with more toys etc, and I can't find anything suitable! In fact, the Blackbird is way more fun to ride than more modern bikes I've tried too! The only downside is it's a bloody long reach to the bars, can get quite uncomfortable for me on longer runs. Rode from Worcester to Dolgellau for RedBull Hardline yesterday, then up to Lake Bala and back (230 miles in all) with the missus on the back, and I needed 15mins on the foam roller the moment I got home. I couldn't stand up straight after more than 6hrs in the saddle!
What would STW do
I'd buy it. But then again I've owned nearly 40 bikes in the last 10 years
I have to say that I love my KTM 950 SMR, I've had a 750, 600, 900 & 1000 4's, a 250 2 stroke and a 640 single and even though the KTM makes less power than the 4's with a stupidly small tank it's definitely my favourite.
I too thought the tiger 800 was a bit meh - engine was boring compared to my Versys.
I can recommend test riding the Tiger Sport 1050 - it's on another level compared to the Tiger 800. I'd get one in a heartbeat if the insurance costs around London weren't so crazy.
I love my GS but it’s just popped the counter balance shaft oil seal and it’s 10+ hours labour just to split the bike in half to get to a £10 seal
Bigger bikes. Bigger bills.....
The 1090 adventure can go off road I’ll be putting suitable tyres on mine soon for this, the 1090 motor is also for me a nicer unit than the 1290, freer revving and still enough power to pull proper wheelies in 3rd gear. In normal riding is also amazingly economical, regularly 200+ miles from a tankful. As a road bike that can do a bit of off road and the occasional Trackday I can’t think of much better and certainly not for £8800 brand new
Well I can only apologies for the weather, this is because, and no surprise to anyone I think, I picked up the 1090 this morning.
Panniers make filtering a bit hairy, I tried it once and then chickened out, they are MASSIVE.
Off to get a KTM tattoo later..
Thanks for all the comments, it really helped/made me paranoid in equal measure.
I was just checking out the latest iteration of the Africa Twin, the list price is £16k!
That’s just mental.
Ace, I love my 1090 it's a superb bike. I swapped the tyres for proper sticky ones with a 170 rear and 120 front for track days. I'll put more off road ones on for green lanes. Also changed standard dustbin exhaust and swapped the standard screen for a much shorter one, I then cut the shorter one down some more as this gave the smoothest airflow. One of the best bikes I've owned and that's saying something. A to B on the roads it's as quick as anything and pick the right roads it's quicker 😉
Awesome! Know what you mean about the cases. Do yours have the anti weave linkages?
Enjoy it and stay safe!
I had a Street Triple R when they were first released. The bike was great, the dealers were awful. I also had two Ducatis. One was perfect and lulled me into a false sense of security, the other was nothing but trouble!
definitely not a tiger, the running costs are insane, i have one, and the suspension is awful at least on the WP versions, ive had the rear shock replaced as it knocked over every bump, the forks do the same but are out of warranty. to be fair Triumph did offer me a 12 month warranty extension for around £350!!
if you plan on using it daily get the africa twin, the KTM will end up in the workshop more. the KTM will perform better off road but how often will you take it out on the lanes etc
the tiger is the best road bike, KTM the best off road, Honda sits in the middle and will be the most reliable. horses for courses and all that. the Honda also sounds great.
The 1090 KTM isn’t better than the Africa twin off road as it has smaller wheels, the Africa twin is quite capable off-road. I did plenty of green lanes on mine. Reliability wise I’ve had 20+ Ktm’s and the only one I had warranty claims on was a 2008 super duke R. All my 50+ hondas have been good too, the Africa twin did have new wheels but nothing else.
The KTM is a the best adv road bike I’ve ridden, my S1000XR was close but the KTM gets the nod from me as I prefer twins. Tiger 800’s are nice but a bit slow and revvy, the 1200 is just too heavy 😁
300 miles on my GS1200 today - nipping out to Oban for lunch. Last week it was a trip from North Ayrshire to Wigtown for breakfast - just 220miles round trip.
Super capable, goes quick enough...
Checking in after popping to the dealers to remind them about a missing tool kit and surprisingly the spare key is missing which they are now sorting.
So now the panniers are safely being used to prop up a small lorry I could check out its filtering mojo properly and all good apart from getting feet down on the really tight in-front of car filtering. It’s so much taller than my slightly saggy NC that there is a lot of muscle memory to unwind and get some confidence in where the floor is.
Can confirm that going through some flooded roads on Saturday was very exciting, my inner Charlie Boardman had a little tingle. Although daughter complained I got her hockey stuff wet. She also reports that it more comfortable and makes a good noise.
Coming out of the dealers and sat at the lights I took the longer route home, this turned into a 100 miler route home, which was nice. Can report that performance is adequate bordering on mental. Element protection also good although top of my lid getting an lot of loud turbulence.
Had to tot up the extras it has for the insurance, £2k based on the online prices I could find! Heated seats are weird and resulted in some frantic poking of buttons as I gently fried. Also odd that the menu system doesn’t seem to pick up on the button presses so doesn’t change when the separate heating buttons are pressed.
Hot_Fiat - daft question, but what are the anti weave linkages?
Weeksy- thanks for the forum link, have also found a Adventure bike forum that seems to have a lot of useful stuff, including operating instructions for the heated seats, which is handy.
Couchy- did you try out many of the screen options? Also do you know what the large black control box under the pillion seat is?
The linkages are a device that isolates some of the pannier's sideways movement from the bike. It basically allows them to float from side to side by about 5cm. Comme Ca:
That looks trick, mine doesn’t have those, doesn’t look like something you can add on to mine either without some big changes to the rear end, was that vid of a 1090?
mboy - you need a ZZR1400......
Missed this thread and just skim read the odd post.....
I did 40,000 miles on an NC700x before a change of circumstances led to me and my wife selling that and her MT07 for a fully loaded CRF1000l Africa Twin which we share
We looked at virtually every adventure bike on the market, and here’s my take on them
KTMs feel flimsy. Even ones with 10,000 miles on them had not worn the miles as well as my 48,000 mile NC. Lad at work has a small KTM. Always broken down. I didn’t even sit on one as they look cheap and I don’t like the styling.
BMW GS - just too big for us. I can hardly get them off the side stand. Too popular too. Boring.
Ducati Multistrada - again, a real struggle to get them off the stand and we don’t need 150bhp. Good value for money though. Loads around used. Look good. I like Ducatis.
Aprilia. No thanks. Heavy. Bad rep. Ugly.
Triumph. Liked the 800. Comfy. Look good. But I doubted the smaller triple would have the low down clout of the bigger twin. And the dealer never got back to me
So we’ve had the CRF about 18 months
It was 20 months old at the time we bought it. 1395 miles. Literally the entire Honda accessories catalogue bolted to it. Every single thing. So much we sold the satnav mount and big screen which caused a lot of buffeting. £8395. (RRP as specced £14775)
I added a Hyperpro rear spring to help with the loaded 2 up riding we do and it’s been perfect.
Engine is a gem. Just like the NC but more. Low revving and smooth but with more than enough clout for us. Sounds good.
Great 2 up. I like it on the back too. Good passenger bike.
Very chuckable around the Peak District lanes. Even I can skid into corners if I really want to. A real weapon on rough roads.
I also did the RLBR1000 charity ride on it. 1041 miles in 20 hours. It munched that easily. Standard seat was fine. Lights are SUPERB.
We get about 55mpg average and 60 is possible with a little care. 220-240 mile per tank.
It feels solid. I don’t clean an it much. We’ve done 10000 miles on it now and we won’t be swapping it anytime soon.
Couchy- did you try out many of the screen options? Also do you know what the large black control box under the pillion seat is?
I know from adv bikes in the past I dislike tall screens, I tried mine without a screen and there's little to no turbulence and it's perfect for me like that. I've cut mine right down so it mimics not having a screen. I prefer the looks that way too. It's also worth trying different helmets if you have one as that can make a difference too, glad you're enjoying it. One note turn TC off soon as you get on as it interferes without you knowing. With it off it wheelies in the 1st 3 gears 🙂
It’s the back of my 1290. Was just wondering if they’d used it across the range. I’ve still got a big “90mph max!” Sticker on my panniers.