[Closed] Advice Request - Bad Trader failing to make a refund for goods

First one, how did you pay?

Paypal gift 🙁

The seller had been on here for a few years so I assumed he'd be pretty trustworthy

Well either do what he says or say good bye to £20 and hello to a lesson.

I hate to say it, but for £20 and PP Gift your options are limited, very time consuming and probably a waste of effort.

All you can do is try to shame him on here, depends how much he wants to have access to the classifieds in future.

[quote=martinhutch ]
All you can do is try to shame him on here, depends how much he wants to have access to the classifieds in future.
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/fs-lots-of-ultegra-carbon-chainset-and-forks-plus-more
??

Another Classifieds-only user strung along by another Classifieds-only user.

I'm assuming my next steps are small claims...

You pay a total stranger by PayPal gift, and yet you would be willing to go to the expense and hassle of small claims court over £20

Doesn't really compute. Sorry.

I also bought some Ultegra shifters from the same seller. Checked his forum history and was cautious of his primarily selling history. I checked the photos which appeared to support his written description.

When they arrived they were incomplete and missing their bar clamps. I realized the photographs had been taken to conceal their omission. I emailed him, he said he would look for and send on some clamps. I'm away from home at the moment so have no idea if any suitable clamps have been posted. I will update this confirmation when I get home.

I paid via PP gift, my mistake, his preferred payment option.

Make your own assessment. Mods, I would support your exclusion of his posting on the forum.

On a point of note,

He has stated he will only refund the remaining £20 IF I contact the STW admins and get his account unlocked.

We suspended his account with a message asking him to get in touch. He has thus far failed to do this. The onus is not on you to ask us to do anything, it's down to him to make good.

I paid via PP gift, my mistake, his preferred payment option.

Bought unseen/no photos and paid by PP gift from a classifieds only user?
I'd take the loss of £20 as a lesson well learnt.
Should be grateful you did'nt get mugged for everything you own....

Sounds like he's doing well so far out of that particular listing. With that in mind, also sounds like he ain't getting unfrozen any time soon, so it's not looking good for the OP.

Can we also ban anyone that pays by PayPal gift and then moans about not being able to get a refund ?

I paid via PP gift, my mistake, his preferred payment option.

I've bought 5 things in classifieds in the past 3 weeks... their preferred method was PPG too....

I paid the fees on all...

As it happens, all the kit was spot on.. but for the sake of £2.... come on....really.

Trust is a nice thing when it all works out ok. You pays your money....

I'll avoid the "whatever did you do that for" statements, I think you know by now?

Anyway, report him to Paypal for insisting on PP gift for goods he's selling, they can get a bit arsey with sellers. Most of the time they ignore it but sometimes they don't.
It wont get you your money back but it may cause him a bit of hassle.

I really do loose any sympathy when people STILL pay with gift. Madness.

Mods - can we have an autocorrect that turns "Paypal Gift" into "Paypal Greedy" for those who are too damned tight to pay a transaction fee that gives them protection when dealing with a complete stranger over the internet?

and then moan about getting stung.

I have spoken to my local Police station who have advised it's a civil not criminal matter (I had assumed it was classed as straightforward theft)

Seriously, are you that green ?

You spoke to the Police over a part you bought over the internet unseen and are £20 down on...........

Classified only user, falls out with classified only user. this is an issue for the classified forum rather than the chat forum?

In fairness, the Classifieds does feature a very large warning to folk NOT to use PPG.

Maybe the autocorrect could take the form of blocking the posting of any ad which mentioned it...

I have spoken to my local Police station who have advised it's a civil not criminal matter (I had assumed it was classed as straightforward theft)

Oh FFS did you really waste police time with this shit? What ****ing world do you live in where you think this was was a police matter.

Another Classifieds-only user strung along by another Classifieds-only user.

Autocorrect is a bastard, I'd agree.

Amen brother.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I have paid and been paid by PPG many a time with no issues, I've also given and received refunds when things don't work out.

As to classifieds only buyers and sellers, would it have changed you stance if I or the seller posted in any of the other forums??

Yep. Think the Police would agree.

As to wasting police time, 5 mins with a desk civvy is hardly going to bring down civilisation

Yep.This is a forum......not gumtree.

Time to chalk it up and move on

Thanks again

As to classifieds only buyers and sellers, would it have changed you stance if I or the seller posted in any of the other forums??

Depends what you post. Add a decent enough gif to the appropriate thread and people will argue your corner until the internet becomes sentient and kills us all to death.

I suppose you thought you would ignore this warning on every classifieds thread, in bold red letters in a red box....

[b]"PayPal Gift warning

We strongly advise that you do not use PayPal Gift (also know as Personal Payments) as this service is intended for friends and family and does not provide the protection of standard Paypal transactions."[/b]

It's harsh, but if you don't pay for the ability to get some protection, you're not going to get any. Anyone insisting Gift payments should be avoided like the plague, they're only doing it so the scam pays off....

No, if I pay PPG I check a sellers history first, in terms of membership tenure and previous sales. Low post and new members I insist they send first.

As many have now pointed out, I guess I chalk this up.

But please everyone keep repeating the previous comments in different ways if it helps

No, if I pay PPG I check a sellers history first, in terms of membership tenure and previous sales. Low post and new members I insist they send first.

How's that working out for you ?

Over the last 5yrs, one bad deal so far.

Guess I've been lucky?

Over the last 5yrs, one bad deal so far.

Guess I've been lucky?

Mustn't grumble then.

tuttonp - Member

But please everyone keep repeating the previous comments in different ways if it helps

You're not going to get any help or sympathy trying to be a little bit clever after being so stupid. 😉

How was that? 😀

Honestly what are the fees on £45?
Is it really worth it, if sellers ask for it then report them for a ban.

I certainly wouldn't recommend buying anything off this seller. Wheel certainly wasn't as described in advert or subsequent pictures were "carefully posed" to say the least.

I too would have thought that trying to defraud someone of money is a police matter.
You have his name and address so name and shame and remember to pay him a visit when you are over that way. If you don't name him he will be back with another log in.

What is wrong with some of you lot? So busy picking on the victim you seem to have forgotten about the stw 'community' 🙄

What is wrong with some of you lot? So busy picking on the victim you seem to have forgotten about the stw 'community'

Do classifieds only posters really constitute part of that "community"?

lemonysam - Member

Do classifieds only posters really constitute part of that "community"?

Nope.
Like kitchen porters, they have no souls.

You used PayPal gift to skip fees on £45 quid?

[b][u]The fees would have totalled £1.79[/b][/u]

You skipped fees to save £1.79. I think I can get a coffee for £1.79 at one of those trailers on the side of dual carriage ways.

Do classifieds only posters really constitute part of that "community"?

Lot's of people come here just to trade crap from their shed to build a pub bike, to build a dream bike at half the cost, to get themselves back on the trail, build up a bike for the other half.. And I would imagine a lot of people have used the classifieds without ever using the other parts of the forum.

Funnily enough some people don't want to talk crap with the regular never wrong forum dwellers.. real scumbags hey.

"On a point of note,

He has stated he will only refund the remaining £20 IF I contact the STW admins and get his account unlocked.

We suspended his account with a message asking him to get in touch. He has thus far failed to do this. The onus is not on you to ask us to do anything, it's down to him to make good."

Cougar - Thanks for your assistance on this. I'm sure the £20 he now has will be a lot less than the money he may have got from the other kit he was trying to flog.

To be fair, the seller's account does go back to 2009. Most problematic sellers would have been outed in that sort of time frame.

It's hard to know whether it's an isolated incident or he's had previous, usually this sort of thing comes out in the wash. Though I suppose it's a bit Operation Yewtree, people don't come forward until there's something to say "ooh, me too" to I guess.

Seems a bit odd that someone would suddenly start quibbling over £20 after several years, it's not exactly the work of a criminal mastermind.

If I have covered the fees via PP I'm still not sure their buyer protection cover is.

From their terms

"To be eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection you must meet all of the following requirements:

Pay for the eligible item from your Account.

Pay for the full amount of the item with one payment. Items purchased with multiple payments – like a deposit followed by a final payment – are not eligible.

Send the payment to the Seller through:

the eBay “Pay Now” button or the eBay invoice; or

the “Send Money” button of your Account by selecting “eBay Item” and entering your eBay User ID and the eBay item number for purchases on eBay website; or

the Send Money tab on the PayPal website, by clicking the “Purchase” tab, or by selecting the “Checkout with PayPal” button or otherwise selecting PayPal as part of a Seller’s checkout flow."

As this was a private seller without any of the above, covering the fees wouldn't have made a jot of difference

Happy for someone to clarify exatly how adding fees would have made a difference in this instance.

Seems a bit odd that someone would suddenly start quibbling over £20 after several years,

"From the OP though, it sounds like the seller is not actually quibbling over returning the £20 so much as trying to use it as ransom to get OP to exert pressure on you to unfreeze has account (which is presumably of some value to him due to the posting history). "

That, precisly that

Maybe you should leave some feedback* on his original FS thread, that way when someone else checks his history they'll see that rather than a thread where no ones mentioned the users name?

*wording up to you!

I think you should still put a small courts claim in, just to inconveninace(sp)them

it sounds like the seller is not actually quibbling over returning the £20 so much as trying to use it as ransom to get OP to exert pressure on you to unfreeze has account

Which is odd and unnecessary in itself; we told him what to do to when we locked the account. Unless the email address on account is wrong of course, but that'd be a banning offence anyway (to get someone's attention as we can't contact them any other way).

If he thinks that holding someone to ransom is the best course of action then the account isn't getting unlocked whilst I've got a hole in my arse.

"If he thinks that holding someone to ransom is the best course of action then the account isn't getting unlocked whilst I've got a hole in my arse."

This alone is probably just covered the £20 I lost

To those people saying 'I told you so' - It's not the £20, the seller could have just dissappeared into the ether with the original £45, but he didn't, he refunded £25 and then insisted I get his account access back before he released the remaining money, that's the action that angers me.

As this was a private seller without any of the above, covering the fees wouldn't have made a jot of difference

Happy for someone to clarify exatly how adding fees would have made a difference in this instance.

You send the money as "paying for goods or services"

The seller pays the fees out of what you send them, so you add a bit on to cover that, so they still receive £45.

Then you are protected, and you would have had your (full) refund by now.

Just a little tip for the OP here for posting in the discussion forums 😉

If you use the 'Quote' button it formats the text much better when replying to something specific.

I would but it would appear the office bolted down version of Firefox (35.0.1) does not offer the 'quote' button (just Share+ or Report Post)

It's in the edit box, not on the original posts. You need to C&P as you are doing then highlight it and use the Quote button just above.

Or, you can type it manually, with [ quote ] and [ /quote ] tags (without the spaces though, I had to put those in to stop it rendering them).

Or, you can type it manually, with [ quote ] and [ /quote ] tags (without the spaces though, I had to put those in to stop it rendering them).

Got it 😉

I also bought some Ultegra shifters from the same seller. Checked his forum history and was cautious of his primarily selling history. I checked the photos which appeared to support his written description.

When they arrived they were incomplete and missing their bar clamps. I realized the photographs had been taken to conceal their omission. I emailed him, he said he would look for and send on some clamps. I'm away from home at the moment so have no idea if any suitable clamps have been posted. I will update this confirmation when I get home.

I paid via PP gift, my mistake, his preferred payment option.

Make your own assessment. Mods, I would support your exclusion of his posting on the forum.

True to his work, some lever clamps arrived in the post.

Sadly they weren't the correct type.

Poor show vendor.

<mod>
Just an update here.

The OP has confirmed that his refund has now been paid in full.

The seller has sent us an explanation which differs in places from what's been said here. We've no way of knowing how much said by both parties is accurate, which is a large part of why we cannot mediate Classifieds disputes.

Innocent or guilty, or somewhere in the middle, he didn't have right of reply to the comments being made here which is unfair.

With this in mind, we've now unlocked his account.

As with any Classifieds transaction, we'd advise that buyers and sellers exercise caution to ensure goods are as described when making purchases, and avoid Paypal Gift as a payment method.
</mod>

Could it be that kiddy called Craig who was prosecuted for scamming lots of peopleon here and PinkBike!?

He also came lived in Bournemouth iirc.

If you haven't been fully refunded yet, I would advise contacting both site mods to give their evidence and hand it to the authorities still.

Could it be that kiddy called Craig who was prosecuted for scamming lots of peopleon here and PinkBike!?

He also came lived in Bournemouth iirc.

So the nameless vendor from Bournemouth refunded me and I posted the shifters back.

When he supplied his postal address it came without a contact name. When asked to provide one, he said the company name would suffice.

Interesting...

And the mystery continues...

I have received my remaining refund.

Suffice to say I'm more than happy not to deal with him again

So, onto the big question. Does Cougar still have a hole in his arse? 😀

Cougar - Thank you for your assistance in resolving this.I appreciate you are in a difficult position and understand that you are limited both in terms of info received and what you can actually do. I do however believe that without your involvement I would be £45 down as the seller went silent as soon as I queried the item received and did not contact me until mod intervention. I have posted an image of the chainset I received in the sale thread prior to returning it, it is a much clearer picture than any originally supplied by the seller.