[Closed] Advice Required - good dog potentially gone very bad....

A muzzle would seem the obvious short term answer whilst other options are look at.

I'd never trust the dog not to do the same with another small animal (including a baby) in the future.

Already in place since Monday.

I'd maybe speak to the vet and see if it could be eyesight connected and he reacted instinctively when he saw the terrier if slightly spooked or something.
Short term solution would be muzzle and good insurance.

Hope the little fella gets sorted, he's a handsome looking dog.

as far as the baby is concerned seeing as how you dont own the dog it cant be a massive issue can it? Hell I dont trust my own dog with our 1 year old and she's never shown any sign of aggression towards him but she's a dog and he's a baby so they dont get left together and he's not allowed near the dog without one of us in very close attendance. Re-homing the dog seems a little quick.

I have two Staffordshire bull terriers, one (the bitch) will try and savage any dog she sees, but both are THE friendliest dogs you will ever meet with people.

See has done it ever since the male was a puppy, I think at first she was being protective, she just never gave up.

We have a five and a two year old, I have never worried about either of the dogs with them. The kids can do anything they like and they don't mind one bit. They sit on them, wrestle them you name it.

I would never think about giving her up because of that, I just keep her on a lead, where all dogs should be in public.

one (the bitch) will try and savage any dog she sees, but both ate THE friendliest dogs you will ever meet.

EDIT: phew!

😆

Can you confirm the eyesite thing? That might be fixable but if the eye sight is fine? Not sure though - surely another dog smells different to a rabbit / pheasant?

Have you tried [url= http://flatcoated-retriever-society.org/ ]Flat coat retriever society[/url]

And this might be where you got him from but just in case...

[url= http://www.flatcoatrescue.co.uk/collage.htm ]Flat coat rescue[/url]

They are wonderful animals and I've known plenty who were great but that doesn't help you I'm afraid.

I suspect it was something to do with the dog feeling threatened, especially with several dogs playing about and getting into it's space.

My sister has a small wiry terrier that was fine with other dogs until a certain incident; they don't really know what.
She used to interact with other dogs no problem, but now seems to get very threatened by other dogs and even if they come over all friendly and tail wagging she will react badly.
They have taken her to a dog behaviourist who thinks she must have had a traumatic event that she s struggling to get over. My sister's in-laws have got about 30 dogs and she reckons that it was some kind of run in with them....

Thanks for all the suggestions. Whilst the eyesight issue may have contributed, we suspect there was some other underlying reason.

Sweaman2 - yes, I think that is where they got him from, and they are waiting for one of the staff to get back to them to discuss what they could do next.

flow - Member
I have two Staffordshire bull terriers, one (the bitch) will try and savage any dog she sees, but both are THE friendliest dogs you will ever meet with people.

If any dog ever seriously attacked mine I would do anything to stop it including breaking it's neck without hesitation. (sorry to the OP for being so blunt but I will protect my dog no matter what)

I just keep her on a lead,[b] where all dogs should be in public[/b].

That is complete and utter rubbish and makes my blood boil.

Back to the OP: do everything you can to rectify it and investigate all psychological and medical reasons. Not sure about the eyesight hypothesis but also get it's joints checked - especially hips as it could be in pain. Fingers crossed something can be done. But if it comes down to it then you may have to do what you are fearing 🙁 Speak to the charities who know the breed before making any decisions though.

Huxley still manages to kill rabbits while wearing his basket muzzle. Basket for exercise, softy muzzle for the vet and when meeting new people. (In his defence he no longer needs the softy to meet people or the vet).

Did I say I let my dog attack other dogs, no!

If my dog did happen to attack yours and you tried to break its neck, I would break yours.

Dogs should be on leads in public, its not rubbish, its common sense.

If my dog did happen to attack yours and you tried to break its neck, I would break yours.

Don't be soft. If a bigger dog attacked yours, what would [b]you[/b] do? And would you then say "fair do" if the bigger dog's owner decided to try and murder you?

😕

Dog thread.

Around a dozen posts.

A threat to break someone's neck.

You gotta love STW. 😀

Dog ownership is a very emotive topic.

I grew up with all sorts of dogs. A Labrador and jack Russell savaged (and killed) a golden retriever puppy we had. Both dogs were put down.

I'm mindful that I was also bitten as a child by one of our apparently child friendly dogs.

TBH, if your parents are that bothered, I'd have it put down.

Flat coated retrievers are retrievers, they have a soft bite for bringing back prey etc. I don't think the dog thought that the smaller one was a rabbit and even if it did, it's not a sight hound so shaking it to break it's neck is completely out of character for this breed.

There are more complex issues here. Take him to the vet's first and get him checked over. A muzzle is a good idea when he is being exercised. Talk to a good dog behavior specialist. We got one when our 7yr old lab destroyed our hall and landing and removed half of our kitchen units in 45mins. Turned out she was protecting us from something which she thought was a threat. Turned out to be the dehumidifier beeping every 30 secs when it needed emptying. Needless to say it did it when we were out!

Ignore all of the daft type of comments, my dogs bigger than your dog. If your dog bites my dog I'll bite your dog!

Dont get the dog put to down, listen to inbred456, dogs are like people, you just need to find out the problem, you wouldnt have a human put dowm.

Adil.

Inbred456 +1

Just a point - was the small terrier one of the usual dogs it meets? Is it possible the terrier had a 'nip' before it was attacked?

It does need investigated before your parents take any drastic steps as it seems unusual that it should 'turn' for no apparent reason after behaving well for over a year.

Dogs should be under control at all times, but that doesn't necessarily mean on a lead.
If I didn't trust my dog to behave he'd be on a lead all the time.
As for the OP's problem, I'd be worried everytime the dog was off lead, don't think I'd trust it fully again. Would I have it put down? No I don't think I would, but he'd be on the lead from now on.

Good luck.

terriers are mouthy ****ers who cant back up their verbal. just like alot of the off-duty-im-mighty-then-though on here! my dog is a big soppy lab cross who killed alot of sheep before i trained her, as all of my dogs, she dosent know what a lead is...

If my dog did happen to attack yours and you tried to break its neck, I would break yours.

Ihope you are a big lad then cos after the dog I would come for you as the irresponsible owner

*Swoon*

You lot are mental. Dog threads are always pretty aggressive but for goodness sake!

Dogs should be on a lead unless you are 100% sure that it will always obey without a blink. Given the attitude of some dog owners on here, it seems that they would struggle with being told what to do, never mind the dog they have 'trained'....

For the record, most dogs, if minded, would make a pretty decent show of putting any unarmed human off the idea of breaking their necks....

What would Barbara Woodhouse say eh?

You lot are mental. Dog threads are always pretty aggressive but for goodness sake!

Couldn't agree more.

OP, were you given the reason why the handsome, 18 month old Mack was at the rescue centre? previous issues?

My dad got a border collie from a rescue centre which turned out to be aggressive around children, asked the centre a few questions and turned out this was why he'd been given up.

Someone's already compared dogs and humans, I will not as I see them as trainable meat and wouldn't be too fussed about having one put down if there was a good reason, but generally there will be a trigger to this sort of behaviour (has he been around small dogs previously?) so my suggestion would be muzzle and observe

Dogs with nobs. Hang on it's the other way round

terriers are mouthy **** who cant back up their verbal.

All dogs should be shot and put in a nice stir fry, hateful things

All dogs should be shot and put in a nice stir fry, hateful things

Dogs are pack animals even when domesticated. By the sounds of it Mack was threatening his own fathers (even though he wouldn't be alpha dog in the pack) position in the pack in it's previous home hence the conflict. It has now moved into your parents home and now sees itself as alpha dog which should be your dads position. Your dad needs show dominance over Mack in his home not by beating the dog or anything but simple things like if he barks at anything then your dad should push the dogs head to the floor whilst firmly saying no, always eating before the feeding the dog. I know it sounds bizarre but try it and you will see rapid results but if you leave it too long you could end up with a real problem dog.

[
I didn't say I let my dog attack other dogs, maybe you should go back to school and learn to read.

I suppose you are one of them people who walk around town with your dog off the lead, nothing gets on my tits more.

VERY LOUD NOISES!!!!!

Public Order Act 1986
[F14A Intentional harassment, alarm or distress.

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—

(a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b)displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.
(2)An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the person who is harassed, alarmed or distressed is also inside that or another dwelling.

(3)It is a defence for the accused to prove—

(a)that he was inside a dwelling and had no reason to believe that the words or behaviour used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation displayed, would be heard or seen by a person outside that or any other dwelling, or

(b)that his conduct was reasonable.

(4)A constable may arrest without warrant anyone he reasonably suspects is committing an offence under this section.

(5)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.]

STuE, whats your point?

I didn't say I let my dog attack other dogs, maybe you should go back to school and learn to read.

I suppose you are one of them people who walk around town with your dog off the lead, nothing gets on my tits more.

How do you know that it would attack other dogs? Does your dog ever get to run around? My dog is on a lead when in town, then in the park/woods/beach it gets taken off the lead to do as it pleases. This is normal behaviour.

My dog walks round the town with his lead off. He'll sit and wait outside shops without his lead. When I take him his walk round the fields / through the woods / at the beach / wherever, I don't even take a lead with me.

Why? Because I trained him and am aware of his capabilities and limitations. Flow - why does it boil your urine to see dogs off their leads?

Getting your vet to refer you to a pet behaviour councilor, would seem a sensible way to go to me!

Like I said, if you READ my first post, you will understand why and when she started to. I know that might be a bit much to ask from someone with such a small brain, but it will save me repeating myself.

She gets to run off the lead, in the field/park/beach, but I have to put her on the lead when other dogs are about.

Common sense really.

flow - Member
but I have to put her on the lead when other dogs are about.
Common sense really.

Yes, if you have a dog liable to bite other dogs. But why does it annoy you that other, better behaved dogs are off their leads? Jealous much?

That post wasn't in reply to you.

I will give you three examples, all within a few month of each other.

My childrens grandmother witnessed the first. A young-ish lad who obviously thought he had a "better behaved dog" was walking his dog off the lead in town. They walked past a woman with a child in a pram, the dog saw a toy the child was holding and decided for whatever reason to attack it, whilst the child was holding it.

The bloke struggled for ages to get the dog off. Obviously leaving the mother and child extremely scared.

Second, some bell end decided to bring his "friendly" border collie on a timber frame site I was working on. I walked pasted the thing and it decided to attack me for no reason. Luckily it got my tool belt and not my arm, which is what it was aiming for. It let go pretty quickly, if it hadn't I would have shot it with my first fix paslode (nail gun) and I think I would have had ever right to do so.

Thirdly, just last week in the same town as the first incident, a dog ran out in front of my car because the deluded owner thought it was ok off the lead. I hit it, but only with the front splitter. Apparently that was my fault, or so the prick of an owner though.

There you go, three valid reasons why dogs should be kept on leads in public, and I'm sure there are thousands more. In fact I think it should be law.

She gets to run off the lead, in the field/park/beach, but I have to put her on the lead when other dogs are about.

In the park!??! You let your horrible vicious beast off the lead in the park????!?! IT COULD BE A PUPPIES FACE NEXT TIME!!

She gets to run off the lead, in the field/park/beach, [b]but I have to put her on the lead when other dogs are about[/b].

Mate, you really need some basic reading lessons.

So by public you actually mean where? As you are clearly letting your dog off the lead in public. Even though your dog is a vicious badly trained KILLER!

What if another dog comes running high speed out the bushes as dogs do?

🙄

I'm going to start carrying a nail gun incase your dog attacks me or my dog, as it's perfectly acceptable to use it in that situation.

I would concentrate on learning to read first, the instructions for nail guns dont come with pictures, I think you might struggle.

I'll learn to read when you learn basic dog handling.

Your not from Arbroath are you?
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Angus/article/15577/we-need-to-get-that-dog-off-the-streets-staffie-kills-pet-chihuahua-in-arbroath.html

What on earth was someone doing with 5 large dogs in a small terrace in the first place? Maybe we should all go round and break the original owner's neck. Its very clear that someone's neck has to be broken...

All dogs should be shot and put in a nice stir fry, hateful things

Have you ever thought about talking to someone about your feelings?

You offering? 😉

neck and was shaking it from side to side (as gun dogs do when they catch birds / prey etc)

Marin

First of all good luck to you and your parents in sorting Mack's issues out and well done for rescuing him in the first place. Second, I hope that you can ignore a lot of the cr8p already posted.

You do need professional advice from a vet and dog trainer for your dog and for you as ultimately you are responsible for your dog's behaviour. I own a golden and a flat coat retriever and they are both wonderful dogs. However, the flattie is without doubt a more complex dog and took much more training and discipline. But he is worth it.

I am surprised by the savaging of the terrier as given their soft mouths, this does seem unusual for a retriever. On the occasions that either of my dogs have caught rabbits or squirrels they have never damaged the skin or bitten them. The animals mostly survive although in some cases they have died from shock (one small rabbit).

A few months ago, my flattie was attacked by a large male german shepherd on a narrow trail. Unfortunately, this happened on three occassions in the same spot. Since then , I have had about four incidents when he has come across another male dog in a confined space and gone from an initial sniff, to growl, to quite a scrap. It is quite worrying to know how to deal with it. We now put him on a lead in any narrow areas, or when other dogs are on leads or if there are other large male dogs around. This has worked so far and in general he is very happy with other dogs [b]in open spaces.[/b] We have had no incidents for a while, so hopefully this is working.

Anyway, good luck with Mack. They are beautiful dogs!!

Problem with dogs is they will fight on occasions even my stupid lurcher has got into the odd fight, whilst the incident here sounds like a serious scrap and certainly warrants muzzling the dog and trying to establish what happend you may never get to the bottom of it. It doesnt mean the dog will attack a person. Again if worried muzzle the dog (make sure is used to being muzzled before the baby arrives so it doesnt associate the two.

Dogs should be on a lead unless you are 100% sure that it will always obey without a blink

Whilst this sounds appropriate and does make sense anyone who thinks their dog will always obey commands everytime clearly doesnt understand dogs. My dogs allowed off lead in public because I'm as sure as I can be that she would never attack a person and she has never got into a fight with another dog unless that dog starts on her.

Some of this thread is comedy gold though.......

They should be able to retrieve eggs without breaking them - you wouldn't really want to eat a pheasant after it's been mauled by a dog!

Well said 'teamhurtmore'!

99% of dogs are completely stupid, as are humans. 😉

Marin

Just come back from walking the dogs in nearby woods. I was thinking about your issue all the way round and wondering if I was tempting fate by saying that we have had no incidents recently. I went for the old trick of being prepared - whistle, treats and leads. I always have dogs on the lead at the start mainly for discipline and after letting them off - I recall with the whistle within first 2-5 minutes and reward with small treats. Mix this up with occasional whistle with/without treats just to keep control but otherwise let them play as they want.

After about 45mins I was coming out of woods onto more open hillside and say guy coming down with big german shepherd!! Used whistle, treat, lead for flattie and left golden alone. All dogs happy and no issues (german shepherd was lovely!) and my flattie very happy on lead and not at all stressed.

I am not sure if any of this helps - but I hope that it gives you confidence to tackle Mack's problems. Good luck again.

If the dog has poor eyesight, it will feel very vunerable, it will become nervous and afraid, this will make it act unpredictably, it may become scared to go out, or if its mobbed by other dogs it may lash out,the muzzle is a good idea, and plenty of reassurance from the owner, good luck with it..

Sweaman, Inbred & TeamHurtmore,

Thanks for the useful replies - Ive passed the comments on to my folks. Everybody else - thanks for the usual STW entertainment 🙄

I'll update the thread in a few days once I know more about whats going to happen. In the meantime, heres a few more pics of Mack from when we last saw him back in August.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

He definitely doesn't look like the kind of dog to do anyone any harm.

Not that you can tell from looking at photos obviously.

shaking it from side to side (as gun dogs do when they catch birds

Sorry mate but that's the very last thing they do. Gun dogs pick up shot birds whether they're alive or dead and take them to their owner to dispatch.

I'd never trust the dog not to do the same with another small animal (including a baby) in the future.

I'd never trust a dog full stop - not in a paranoia way, in a "it's a large meat eating animal and sometimes they do things you don't expect" way.

Sometimes dog's just go for other dog's, it's a dog thing "topdog" most day's i walk 30 dog's and every now and then the least likely dog will try and get to another dog to kill it, dog's are pack animals and decide who is boss in different ways to us. Dog should be on leads in public.
We have a few of FCR's that come to us and they are all MENTAL, they look all lovely but i have yet to meet one that's not deranged, the eyesight may be from poor selective breeding.
Dog topics always make me chuckle, they bring out a strange side of people.

mmmmmm something wrong there
I have a Golden Retriever and for what your describing it is not normal behaviour
Yes they are a gun dog and have soft mouth but not known to shack something
to pieces.
Don't know what it is or why Get it to a vet first to check it over
If nothing wrong then unfortunately have it put down.

maybe where it was before was tormented by a dog of similar smell/size
You just don't know from a rescue dog what its gone through before
it came to you.

boiling piss could mean an std. I'd recommend you go and get checked out.

Every dog owner I've ever met has the best, most well behaved dog in the world. I remember climbing inside a cupboard with the boiler whilst the owner hid in the utility room as her dog went mental trying to bite her and me. Of course it had never happened before.

Then there's the ones that jump up at you and slaver all over, he's not being friendly you complete idiot. And then theres the dogs that one day snap and hurt someone, of course they've never done it before, that's not to say it wasn't going to happen. It's not a human, even if it were, you couldn't predict it's moods.

Really, you have to be pretty arrogant to walk around with this best mutt in the world, which is capable of killing, but won't because you've trained it so fabulously.

Try and break my neck if you like. It proves your just as unhinged as your dog!

Paulosoxo - well said

Then there's the ones that jump up at you and slaver all over, he's not being friendly you complete idiot

Well actually in 95% of cases they are just being friendly, its just you dont like it.
You have to be pretty unhinged yourself to rock up onto a thread like this where a person is aksing for advice about a dog and come out with your rubbish.

But like I said this thread is comedy gold because of people like you.

To be fair, it's all the other lunatics that made this lunatic post. The OP at least knows his dog is dangerous now

Try this. http://www.google.co.uk/m/products/detail?client=safari&hl=en&source=univ&q=dog+collar+pet+safe&cid=6659827999732588990#prd:o

It warns and rewards with beeps and then it squirts water as a last resort.

Olive our French spaniel would disappear over the horizon chasing seaguls. I have spent hours searching for her. But this has changed her, it's lovely... I have a dog I can trust off the lead now. And we saw results instantly. After three walks she was changed. Excellent product.

In your case you would give her a bad beep as soon as you saw anything suggesting the dog may attack, and it stops them dead in 95% of cases with the squirt dealing with the other 5%.

My findamental problem with all this is that the dog behaved 'out of character' with no warning and in a situation it's been in, no doubt, before.

Anything that can be done to discourage the problem behaviour is therefore likely to be reactive - i.e. after it starts doing it again.

If it were to ever grab the OP's baby and exhibit similar shaking behaviour the resutls could be catastrophic in terms of brain injury for the child.

How can the OP trust the dog not to just 'flip' at the wrong moment and do this to his child? Whatever reactive measures are taken will be too late.

Sorry to be a pessimist on this but my view is that once is too many times for this. Not that the dog shoudl be necessarily rehomed or put down but to trust it in a house with a baby, no.

Rather than the water spray ones try the electric shock collars - illegal in Wales but they'd get the message across far more quickly than a spray of water on the nose.

oh god, it'll be weeing in a small childs shoes next.

This may be a stupid question, but the dog has been neutered hasn't it?

A dog walking friend has a really nice flat coat; however it hasn't been neutered and apparently some flat coats suffer with high testosterone which can make them a little random and *can* make other dogs hostile to them (his gets jumped/snapped at by every other dog until it either runs off or is cowering and whimpering on the floor).

Its worth getting your vet to check this, and if he is still intact or has only recently been done, then it could be testosterone issues; and they can give him an implant to reduce his testosterone levels.

And finally to answer the question; what would I do if you kicked my dog whilst its attacking your dog; well first I would call an ambulance to deal with the mauling you would have suffered; as if you attack a dog, that is currently fighting/defending itself you are going to get bitten and it will be completely your fault; and if you don't know that then perhaps you shouldn't have a dog; as you sure as hell don't understand the basic rules of looking after one.

Every dog owner I've ever met has the best, most well behaved dog in the world. I remember climbing inside a cupboard with the boiler whilst the owner hid in the utility room as her dog went mental trying to bite her and me. Of course it had never happened before.

So on a sample of one, you condemn an entire species.

Then there's the ones that jump up at you and slaver all over, he's not being friendly you complete idiot.

Jumping up is a pain, and its demanding attention; however it is a friendly action, just because *you* don't find it friendly (which is completely fair enough) doesn't mean that that is isn't.

As for slobbering, I've never really though of it as a friendly or non friendly action; I am however fairly certain no one in the world has been prosecuted for their dog slobbering in an aggressive manner.

And then theres the dogs that one day snap and hurt someone, of course they've never done it before, that's not to say it wasn't going to happen.

So on that note, are you going to kill every animal that may snap and hurt someone, horses, cows, deers, foxes, badger, cats .... actually pretty much everything, including people.

It's not a human, even if it were, you couldn't predict it's moods.

We can't predict human moods, so are you now saying if you can't predict it we should put it down?

Your conclusion to the issue seems to be, we kill everything on the planet...... which seems a little harsh a sentence just because a single dog attacked a terrier.

Really, you have to be pretty arrogant to walk around with this best mutt in the world, which is capable of killing, but won't because you've trained it so fabulously.

If he takes precautions I don't see why its much more dangerous than people cycling through red lights

Try and break my neck if you like. It proves your just as unhinged as your dog!

This doesn't even merit a response; as after your deranged comments

My work here is done. It's probably worth mentioning that I'm terrified of dogs!