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A friend's elderly grandparents have finally been persuaded that keeping a large amount of paper money in the house poses potential risks, especially as the gentleman of the house keeps inadvertently nearly setting it on fire!
The problem is they refuse to have the money deposited in their name as they 'don't want the government getting their hands on their hard earned savings' so what would the problems be in depositing 15-20k of paper money in your name and would there be any associated tax implications?
The friends in question are both working paying basic rate tax.
so what would the problems be in depositing 15-20k of paper money in your name
Last time I did this, I got investigated for money laundering. Took several months and some intrusive questioning to get it all cleared up.
I would imagine AML might be an issue (money laundering) and they'll need ID to set up an account.
Have any denominartions of paper money expired? (non plastic £10 notes?)
Tax only paid on interest (or inheritance if they have £640K+ IIRC which I imagine is unlikely).
The problem is they refuse to have the money deposited in their name as they ‘don’t want the government getting their hands on their hard earned savings’ so what would the problems be in depositing 15-20k of paper money in your name and would there be any associated tax implications?
I'll look after it for them...If it's been collected over a period of time how many of the notes are still current?
Tax implications? How was the money earned, is the fear of the government due to it not being obtained and declared as it should be? As in tax paid where tax was owed?
anybody depositing that sort of sum will get some questions as that is the right thing to do when combating money laundering and tax evasion.
Advice? Explain to the Grandparents that there's really no reason not to have it in the bank in their name.
There are all sorts of tax/inheritance issues associated with "looking after" someone else's cash.
* I know exactly the situation, my Mother was the same.
Well it rather depends on how they came about the money in the first place? Are they just paranoid or life-long tax evaders?
In what form is the cash? Fifties are coming out of circulation and will raise eyebrows, twenties are fine for the moment, but even they're 'only' about 10 years old, if it's been laying around for years it could be obsolete, tens and fives are relatively new of course.
Basically as long as the notes are still current there's nothing wrong with holding money for someone else in your account, or opening a new one solely for the purpose, but if HMRC come knocking asking where it came from, you'll have to say.
Personally if you decide to hold it for them, I'd open a new account just for that purpose, and pay it in all at once, you don't want to look like you're trying to sneak under the radar by dribbling it in.
<p>Their savings are doing nothing sat in the house, at least in a bank they will depreciate at a slower rate than inflation!</p>
so what would the problems be in depositing 15-20k of paper money in your name and would there be any associated tax implications?
Depositing an amount of cash like that would certainly draw a lot of attention from the authorities as mentioned above. It would most probably be classified as a gift to the friend from the grandparents. The only major tax issue would be inheritance tax liabilities at a later date which aren't really relevant to the situation in question.
The bigger issue would be that the grandparents no longer have access to the money as it would all be sitting in your friends account!
It would arguably be easier to explain to the grandparents that the government don't take anything from peoples savings, in fact they guarantee the money if the bank goes under, and that they've ultimately been losing money for years due to the combination of inflation and having zero interest on their savings.
Unless of course they've been hoarding cash to avoid paying income tax on earnings, in which case put it all in a safety deposit box somewhere in order to avoid any difficult questions!!
Advice for depositing large amount of paper money
Carry it in to the bank in a large, plain black holdall.....and wear a crash helmet or a balaclava.
Bank tellers love that shit.
Its certainly over the limit that would trigger checks being done, although if your friend isn't linked to criminality it might not require any further action.
The key thing is has the money been obtained legally and has tax been paid properly on it (i.e. not obtained from cash in hand jobs etc.)? If no to either I wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole as you'd then be participating in either fraud or something worse.
If they are just a bit senile and read the Daily Mail too much then probably not a lot to worry about...
Allegedly, amounts up to £2000 don't raise any questions if they're deposited at infrequent intervals of say 4-6 weeks. Allegedly
You would have to be insane to walk in with 20k cash
not obtained from cash in hand jobs
Other services are available.
See also: Cocaine.
Safety deposit box is a good shout, I presume you'd have to give some indication of what you were putting in it for possible insurance purposes. As for dumping a large amount of money in the bank I once dropped 25k in but it was a cheque. No one questioned anything but that may be because it was traceable.
not obtained from cash in hand jobs
What about regular hand jobs?
You havent got a chance, i paid in a large cheque to a family members account in person and the bank kept asking who i was, what i was doing etc. A large queue formed behind me, i thought they were going to arrest me. Apprently anything deemed suspicious should be accompanied by evidence of where it came from, or a letter from a solicitor.
My OH deposited 8K in cash a couple of years back - no questions were asked, she told them it was from bank of elderly Mum & Dad and the staff said it happens lots.
RM.
Allegedly, amounts up to £2000 don’t raise any questions if they’re deposited at infrequent intervals of say 4-6 weeks. Allegedly
Unless you've been doing that throughout your time at the bank, I'd bet it'll still set off some alerts.
Never even said s thing with my 25k. I' not being funny but 8k could just be from the sale of a car.
, she told them it was from bank of elderly Mum & Dad and the staff said it happens lots.
Which will be logged and checked possibly based on other criteria
I put 4.5k cash in the other month, apparently it was above 5k were you'd need to go a speak to someone else about it.
Just say you sold an old Rolex Submariner 6204 the had been in the sock drawer for years to a dealer in one of the antiques places in Mayfair, sorry can’t remember which one? Chap was very nice and had a moustache and wore a snazzy waistcoat. We had a lovely day in London and went to the theatre afterwards.
They cant prove it either way.
They cant prove it either way.
About 15 mins with some cctv, making the lies more complicated great plan
About 15 mins with some cctv, making the lies more complicated great plan
I think you have an inflated view of how extensive most banks AML procedures are.
FWIW OP: <span style="text-decoration: underline;">IF</span> the bank ask, just tell them it's a gift from the savings money from the old folks.
I've had this with selling classic cars
sold one for xxx in cash took it to the bank the cashier hated me and took me to another room so the other customers did not start whispering (and they where)
2 days later did a cash transfer in two parts as the max is 10k for another classic that I brought and that set some alarm bells off 🙂 all explained and forgoten about until my father in law confessed to having a load of soon to be out of circulation £10 notes stashed away I walked into the same building society up to the same cashier with an old man wanting to put that into my account as he like a lot of older folk "don't trust those robbing bas*****".
it took me my partner and the bank manager the best part of an hour to try and talk him into opening an account but he flatly refused the poor woman at the bank just gave up and stuck it in my account as she did not want him going home with it. He now wants it back in £20s so I've transferred to his daughter my partner for Her to deal with. He has other bank accounts ect so I've no idea why this was huge deal !!!
i found it funny in a odd way
I would imagine it's something similar to the view my grandparents had. Didn't want all the money in the bank as they didn't want to government to claim it when the time came to go into a home. If the money's not there then the state pays.
In the end we sold the house and paid for the home that way so I don't think it worked out how they planned!
Pay it into NS&I either Premium Bonds or deposit.
They dont seem to mind large amounts but do it as two payments anyway.
They wont let you have it all back at once though.
About 15 mins with some cctv, making the lies more complicated great plan
So what day day was it we went and sold the watch? I think it was last year? Or maybe it was the year before? Did we still have the Rover then Margaret? Or had we sold it and got the Honda Jazz? Anyway it was definitely summertime as my lumbago was better.
First of if the money was legally obtained it belongs to the old couple. The fact that it's cash doesn't alter that. Banks are used to old people coming in with carrier bags of money and will certainly let them open an account and deposit it. Yes a few money laundering questions might be asked, but so what if there's no evidence of wrong doing all will be fine.
Likewise if they give it to your friend. Tell him not to make up any stories, just tell the truth and it will be fine. No income tax for your friend to pay if it's a "gift". But it will remain as part if the old couples estate for inheritance tax purposes for seven years.
Thanks for all the advice. From what I know the money is just from saving over the years, they have a bank account but when it reaches a certain level they withdraw cash and store it in the house all in £20 notes.
They don’t own their home so the fear is any savings will be taken if they end up in care. There isn’t a will but they want her to share the money between the 2 brothers (her father and uncle) when the time comes.
Safety Deposit box or several of them. Nice, quiet, no nosey questions. Oh and don’t post anything about it on the www.
Banks also seem to like asking what big withdrawals are for when done in cash. A cheery non of your business normally seems to suffice.
Mrs Gti used to work at a building society in the mortgage redemptions department. She and her colleagues were encouraged to flag up anybody who suddenly paid off a mortgage with a big sum of money and they did, frequently. The financial services business is riddled with paranoia.
For the out of notes, send them to the BoE - link
Best course of action is to get them to open a bank, Post Office or Building Society account and deposit it, saying what you've said here. It'll be flagged but it's a credible story. One of pain, then all done and safe.
If they're trying to avoid tax that's their own problem and they deserve to lose it.
<edit>As for wanting to avoid paying for their care, that's selfish. My mum's just had to go into a home. I've got Lasting Power of Attorney and am paying for it using her savings. When they're gone, so will her house. That's the way it works.</edit>
Right so it's a straightforward fraud over care home fees. I suggest you help them, or not, depending on your attitude to that.
Banks also seem to like asking what big withdrawals are for when done in cash. A cheery non of your business normally seems to suffice.
Going to Cheltenham Racecourse, to pop it all on the nose of a horse, was my reply.
Banks also seem to like asking what big withdrawals are for when done in cash. A cheery non of your business normally seems to suffice.
Going to Cheltenham Racecourse, to pop it all on the nose of a horse, was my reply.
"I'm going to offer it in exchange for goods and services. "
The questions are designed to prevent people from paying fraudsters in cash. Not sure if there's any evidence it works from a customer point of view (it certainly works from a "covering the banks arse" pov).
Right so it’s a straightforward fraud over care home fees. I suggest you help them, or not, depending on your attitude to that.
Other than they're not in care yet, so it's just intention to possibly commit fraud at some point in the future. IIRC they only ask you to pay if you have over £30k in savings.
Individually each of your grandparents can keep £14,250 in savings and get full NHS funded CARE homes stay (although you have no/little choice as to which CARE home and some are dreadful). They don't need to be worried about losing this amount of money if they don't want to. Two elderly parents dying in CARE homes this spring, I know more about this than I ever wanted to.
I'd suggest going into your bank and talking to them before taking the money in and explaining the situation. Lying about how they came about it is crap advice.
I had an Egyptian customer pay me $25K my company in used $100 notes. That was an interesting conversation with the bank!
For the care home asset hiders i suggest going to visit the homes that your council will fund for you, then go and have a look at the ones you can choose if you pay.
Poolman - I’m with you 100%. Some dreadful local authority funded CARE homes out there. Pretty shocking in fact.
Council ones can be pretty crap. My mums private one was a £1000 a week. It will come as no surprise if people stash away large amounts of cash to pay for the nicer ones.