[Closed] Abergeldie Castle - could it be saved from the Dee?

Unfortunate, but I'm more concerned about Invercauld Bridge

A line of sheet piles would be my suggestion. Not cheap though, but would be fairly quick and would allow for something more substantial when it dries out a bit.

A nice building but he should receive the same support as ordinary folk who have also lost their homes. Time to look again at SEPA funding at renewable energy and at land use/management

The Mirror has better photos

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/historic-castle-teeters-brink-disaster-7110323

I think it's ****ed Jim

Actually, that castle looks like it's about to fall into the river. There should be a planned demolition to make sure it doesn't as the debris and rubble could cause further flooding and damage downstream.

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Looks likes his mates need to get there hands in there pockets and Bail him out.

It was a long way from the river earlier this year when we paddled past...

And invercauld bridge 😯

Aye, that's the bridge closed "for several months". Bit of a detour required.

In the end the poor soul was in such an awful position that his only hope was to go to one of his other houses, A true tragedy.

sweepy - Member
In the end the poor soul was in such an awful position that his only hope was to go to one of his other houses, A true tragedy.

What an unpleasant thing to say. You do come across as a nasty little person. I hope it never happens to you - you won't be deserving much sympathy.

scotroutes - Member

Aye, that's the bridge closed "for several months". Bit of a detour required.

I wonder if some kind of bailey bridge could be used in a situation like this.

[quote=JulianA ]

What an unpleasant thing to say. You do come across as a nasty little person. I hope it never happens to you - you won't be deserving much sympathy.

He's not a very nice person [url= http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/queen-s-friend-facing-legal-action-over-royal-deeside-right-to-roam-1-1032339 ]http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/queen-s-friend-facing-legal-action-over-royal-deeside-right-to-roam-1-1032339[/url]

I'm sure he's not short of a bob or two, but no doubt somehow the taxpayer will fund this repair.

Frankly couldn't give a damn. Have far more sympathy for the thousands of uninsured folk South of the Border.

and those in the Deeside valley

@bruneep - read the article. So not a nice guy. Fair enough - thanks for the heads up. Still not going to hope that a listed building falls down, though.

sounds like he'll have to sell off some of the 11700 acres!!

Frankly couldn't give a damn. Have far more sympathy for the thousands of uninsured folk South of the Border.

Why are people uninsured?

sounds like he'll have to sell off some of the 11700 acres!!

Oh the horror!

Why are people uninsured?

Quite hard to get flood insurance in some places now. And many people can't afford insurance.

If the river wants to evict him or Abergeldie Castle no power on this earth will be able to stop that ...

I am afraid time is up for him and his castle to go as nature does not want him there anymore.

😛

And there's a simple solution here - he can donate the castle to the nation. It's a nice building, I'm sure Historic Scotland would be happy to look after it, and the government can cough up enough to stabilise the banks.

I don't need your approval or sympathy Julian, and I'll save mine for people that really need it.

If insurers deem your property at risk from pluvial flooding then you will be an unacceptable risk to insure.

bencooper - Member

And there's a simple solution here - he can donate the castle to the nation. It's a nice building, I'm sure Historic Scotland would be happy to look after it, and the government can cough up enough to stabilise the banks.

Waste of money and time that is ...

Demolish it using tower bomb and let nature claim back the land.

😮

edit: recycle the stones as I think they are good castle stones ...

Thats actually very sad situation he faces, like most in this winter of ours there are a lot of folks loosing their home, their possessions and most likely a helluva lot of memories.
I'd hazard a guess that if that goes over into the river, that there will be a lot of personal possessions going with it too.. Doubt that they'll be able to salvage much from it..

My sympathies lie with anyone forced into this situation due to circumstances well beyond their control.

surely a bit of rip rap would sort that out

>and those in the Deeside valley<

Are there any uninsured masses in the Deeside Valley? If so then yes, for sure.

The castle doesn't seem to have much specific historical or architectural importance, is that fair? A-listed but not outstanding or unique... And also, not open to the public. Which altogether, makes it a shame but a private matter for the landowner. Though it's a nonissue clearly since anyone who's so keen to keep the public off his land certainly wouldn't accept any public funding to fix his house.

The bridge is just down the road from the bit of the A93 that collapsed into the river, isn't it? I had it mixed up with another one further up on the tomintoul road I think

Reckon that could be a goner

the government can cough up enough to stabilise the banks.

properbikeco - Member
sounds like he'll have to sell off some of the 11700 acres!!

surely its a bit less now...

450 year old? Doesn't owe him anything. Demolish and use the stone for a new hoose further from the river. A better long term plan than spending a fortune stabilising the river bank.

Though it's a nonissue clearly since anyone who's so keen to keep the public off his land certainly wouldn't accept any public funding to fix his house.

Sadly, that.

Land owner needs too sheet pile out into the river, excavate the slop out to good ground, infill and compact suitable material. I'd say he needs to get cracking to. I'd give it a week until his house collapses.

The castle doesn't seem to have much specific historical or architectural importance, is that fair? A-listed but not outstanding or unique...

?

[i]Category A
Buildings of national or international importance, either architectural or historic; or fine, little-altered examples of some particular period, style or building type. (About 8% of total listed buildings.) [/i]

If insurers deem your property at risk from pluvial flooding then you will be an unacceptable risk to insure.

While I understand your point, Insurance shouldn't really work like this should it.

Sadly Nickc, insurance is a profit making exercise, and that will mean you won't get insurers signing up to guaranteed or acceptable losses.

Living alongside the Falls of Dochart for years meant we had no flood or subsidence insurance available, bar a couple of specialist insurers who wanted thousands a year and a £10k or £20k excess. The site has never flooded in 600 years of a village being there, and the house was built into and directly on bedrock....

Well, I don't know what it's like further up river but it's certainly rising again further down. Not as bad as last week (yet) but we've another 36 hours of heavy rain forecast. Reckon I best be to getting everything I can up off the floors again.

As for uninsured in the Dee valley I heard of one woman last week. As it was from the estate factor she'll be a tenant (like me). I'm sure there'll be more. Not everyone here is landed gentry (or oil oligarch's). Just ordinary people trying to get by (like everywhere else).

Sadly Nickc, insurance is a profit making exercise, and that will mean you won't get insurers signing up to guaranteed or acceptable losses.

Indeed, but the whole point is that risk should be spread amongst policy holders for the [i]benefit[/i] of the policyholders, not the shareholders... Should be something that is looked at alongside better flood protection and resilience. Won't be though.

but the whole point is that risk should be spread amongst policy holders for the benefit of the policyholders

that just encourages building in stupid places, i'm not subsidizing idiots.

So because this guy is rich and stops people using rights of way/accessing his land, the stw massive hate him...

...but love Jeremy Clarkson?

I certainly don't hate him. I just think public funds would be better spent elsewhere

I'm happy for public funds to be used to help out an A-listed building - as long as the public gets to own the building afterwards.

that just encourages building in stupid places, i'm not subsidizing idiots.

It doesn't have too, it just needs some better regulation is all.

.but love Jeremy Clarkson?

Yeh, STW is a full blown unanimous Clarkson circle jerk

I think Clarkson is funny. I also think it'd be funny if his house fell in a river.

Or a mutual.

Hang on, didn't we sell most of them off?

bencooper - Member

I'm happy for public funds to be used to help out an A-listed building - as long as the public gets to own the building afterwards.

Pretty much this for me.

And I dont hate him, but I dont have any more sympathy for him than anyone else losing their home in this.

Flood insurance is for spreading [i]risk[/i] not for transferring predictable costs.

How is it going metalheart? Looks like a more prolonged rain but less intense??

meh..he may lose just one of his houses.
I feel sorry for those who lose their only home and don't have other easy options available to them.

Recycle the stone into a modern building that doesn't gobble up resources trying to keep it warm for (I'm guessing) a couple of people.
I'm really not sentimental about these buildings and what they often represent.

How is it going metalheart? Looks like a more prolonged rain but less intense??

Ironically much more rain locally (A93 here to halfway into Aberdeen has localised flooding, all the way across in a couple of instances) but the seems to have less impact on the river itself (at least here).

The river is about 3/4 - 4/5 of lasts weeks peak. This was previously thought to be be roughly the high point as recently (i.e. Within the the last 30 years). And it's taken 36 hours to get this high (as opposed to 6). Last time at this point you could see height rising within 15-30 minutes. With more rain forecast it'll likely rise further. Fingers crossed that it's gradual and not as high!

That looks incredibly perilous. I can't see any way of driving piles to protect that building. Localised placement of rock could stop the immediate problem, a long term solution would involve work from within the watercourse and that could take a while.

karma always seems to have a way of catching up with you...

Quite a few houses owned by ordianry people have been demolished with all their furniturre inside due to previous flooding, absolutely nothing different fot this house, cost of repairs versus cost of letting it fall down.

Lets just hope us the tax payer dont have to fund anything to save it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-24864996

Its not much of a castle.
This is a proper castle.

Indeed, but the whole point is that risk should be spread amongst policy holders for the benefit of the policyholders

But insurance only really works for low risk high cost events. If recent experience shows that flood risk have been underestimated and some houses have for example a 1:20 risk of flooding each year. Say a big claim is £40k. The insurance co needs to charge 2K a year just to break even. Multiply that for cases where houses have flooded twice in 10 or 15 years.

High flood risk houses need high premiums and excesses. Just like low risk drivers don't pay the same premium as drivers with numerous convictions, if they can get insured at all.

It isn't spreading risk if the owners of high risk houses are insured from the premiums paid by those who choose not to buy houses in areas with a known flood risk.

Is the house of any real architectural or historic interest? Wiki says there's another almost identical building. Surely the best solution for the owner, if he can bear the loss of social standing, is to knock it down and use the stone to build a modern place further up the bank with decent insulation, solar water and PV, huge glass windows and all mod cons and turn it into a money-spinning B&B rather than a massive financial drain that will hang like a millstone around the necks of future generations of his family.

Is it only me now whose logging into this thread to see if it's fallen over yet 😕

No, not just you 😐

ditto 🙂

Maybe it's possible to protect the bank.

Bit academic, though. Would you put your hands up to work in that river, within toppling distance of that place?

Bit academic, though. Would you put your hands up to work in that river, within toppling distance of that place?

Not a chance in hell, but I think the other huge problem will be finding a civils contractor who could do that sort of work. I think they'll all be pretty busy for a while doing easier work for bigger clients.

On the insurance front - no-one wants to pay any more than they need to for insurance, and the insurance industry is extremely competitive.

If you've got the choice between buying an expensive policy from insurer a) who takes on everything and anyone for the same premium, regardless of risk, or a cheaper policy from company b) that's a bit more selective and precise, and able to offer insurance at a price more in line with your level of risk, which would you choose?

insurance company a) will end up attracting only the worst risks, leaving company b) with the pick of the better risks.

Lucky you if you're a bad risk with company a), as long as they don't go bust before you need to claim.

piemonster - Member

bencooper - Member

I'm happy for public funds to be used to help out an A-listed building - as long as the public gets to own the building afterwards.

Pretty much this for me.

Just for balance, would you happy for the state to take automatic ownership of any property they help save? Or does this only apply to social groups you don't like?

I think folk's worry is that millions of public money will be spent shoring up one person's, albeit very nice, house. If it was a row of flats they would be condemned as being uneconomic to save without a 2nd thought.

@richc

come the revolution youll be first up against the wall 😈

Probably the not that castlse wall admittedly!

More seriously, wot tom said.

[quote=richc ]Just for balance, would you happy for the state to take automatic ownership of any property they help save? Or does this only apply to social groups you don't like?

Those poor castle owning minority groups. We demand equality for them.

would you happy for the state to take automatic ownership of any property they help save? Or does this only apply to social groups you don't like?

Remind me - what was it that happened to Northern Rock and RBS shareholders in 2008?

Abergeldie? More like Aber-fell-in-the-Dee, am I right?

(Too soon? Read it again tomorrow)

[quote=bikebouy ]Is it only me now whose logging into this thread to see if it's fallen over yet

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

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not yet, but part of the garden wall has

I was worried archie was going to be homeless for a moment.

It was quite high...

Normal level
[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5619/21622754065_891c42cbd4_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5619/21622754065_891c42cbd4_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/yWJgsz ]Royal Dee Canoe[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/ ]Matt Robinson[/url], on Flickr

The flood level

[img] [/img]

Now.
[img] [/img]

Nuke it from orbit.....

[img] ?oh=7e257ed2d5872ca2aa2aeab44d8e0059&oe=57084269[/img]

Glendoll, Bachnagairn foot bridge up the Moulzie track past the Moulzie Cottage has been completely washed away, so until further notice please be advised NO access to Bachnagairn, the Rangers are checking other foot bridges in the Glendoll area, so please seek advice from the Glendoll Ranger centre on the current conditions of paths and bridges before heading out.
Tel: 01575 550233
email: GlenDollRanger@angus.gov.uk

Oh hum that was a regular bridge for me

That's on the Capel Mounth circuit so very popular. I guess it'll be less busy thus time of year though.

The bridge at Linn of Quoich survived but it no longer crosses the river which has cut a new line further East of the bridge.

The bridges at the west end of Loch Muick are also no more

That's a real shame about the Cambus. Spent many a happy summer day jumping off that bridge, one of my favourite spots in the world as a result.

has it fallen yet

Great Pics Matt Oooot NaBoooot.

That river looks monstrous in the second pic... 😯