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Help!
I eat healthily- (not too carb heavy, plenty of protein and loads of veg etc), hardly drink, and do high intensity exercise (bootcamp style stuff) 3x1hr a week, with the odd ride thrown in at the moment. My job is pretty active too. Yet I still carry excess weight around my stomach.
Can anyone explain why this is, and offer decent advice as to the sort of training I should actually be doing? I thought high intensity exercise was meant to be the way forward but it doesn't seem to be doing the trick...
Sit ups?
Eat less
More calories out than in will sort it. By a roadbike and ride it hard.
That all sounds fine in principle so a few more details are needed really.
How much abdominal fat are we talking about?
How lean are you elsewhere?
How has your body compesition changed, or not, over the years?
Is the fat on your tummy fairly firm and rounded , or what seems like a flatish stomach with a wobbly (sorry) layer on top?
Any problems with bloating after eating or digestion problems?
Just to get an idea what we're taking about...
You can't do any kind of exercise that specifically removes/burns fat from one specific region of your body. Exercise will burn off fat but it does so consistently over the whole body. Sit ups etc will give you a kick ass six pack but will only be visible once you have reduced your over all body fat.
I should say that I am no expert and have found this info out by joining a gym and having a personal trainer. While my gut is slowly starting to get smaller so are my legs and my arse etc.
Exercise will burn off fat but it does so consistently over the whole body
i think its more accurate to say the fat vanishes in the order of least obvious/important first.
and it does that just to spite you, you fat thighed woman, you pot-bellied man, you huge arsed......
i think its more accurate to say the fat vanishes in the order of least obvious/important first
Not always...
Anyone remember Big Train's Fat Handed Tw'i't?
Regardless... a 6 pack is made in the kitchen.
and do high intensity exercise (bootcamp style stuff) 3x1hr a week
The trouble with high intensity activity is its over pretty quickly, your knackered before you've actually done much energy burning exercise . Plenty of gentle excerise is better that getting all hot and sweaty. The reason bootcamps/ jazzercise / kick bolloxing or the next branded shouty jumpy fad exist is because its difficult to make a profit and sell memberships by advising people to go for a nice stroll.
with the odd ride thrown in
do a bit more of that - nice meandering road rides a better, riding off road is generally to short and sharp, thats why recreational (rather than competitive) mountain bikers tend towards the portly. Ride now while the days are long
i think its more accurate to say the fat vanishes in the order of least obvious/important first.
Would it be accurate to say that getting lower than 15% body fat will require some real work, get onto body building forums/web pages to see what they do as a guide.
Weigh yourself at the same time each week with the same amount of hydration.
Take body measurements including %body fat
Take front and back pics
Keep a diary of calorie intake and exercise (eg training peaks)
If you do this you should be able to see the impact (visually and measurement wise) of changes in calorie consumption, exercise and food types.
Good luck
Avoid starchy food like bread.
Keep losing fat from weights/cardio - it will shift.
Time - it won't happen overnight.
riding off road is generally to short and sharp, thats why recreational (rather than competitive) mountain bikers tend towards the portly
Nothing to do with the cake stop and post ride beer?
IBS
Bloating
Dairy
Hydration
Or plain old genetics. As good as your parents genes allow...
Nothing to do with the cake stop and post ride beer?
No - its these newfangled 1 hour intensive nut-pummelling classes that are suddenly all the rage
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Agree on MTB riding, I rode local woods 3 times a week always thought I was fit.. I then bought a road bike and rodethat 3 times a week instead, about the same amount of time as an average MTB ride but from my door instead of using the car meaning I could get about an additional hour in per ride.
Was 15st now 11 in a year.
Still eat tons but I'm now doing loads more road than I ever did MTB.
Low intensity exercise with high intensity bursts will burn fat.
So will a blowtorch? But that is a fact..
I have the same concern as the OP about stomach fat. It's probably a mixture of internal body cavity fat and subcutaneous (under then skin) fat. If I stand up straight with a good posture my stomach is flat but anything less than that and it's bulgy. My waist is still the same old 32" though.
I guess you just have to accept that as you enter your forties and fifties you have less testosterone buzzing around your body and you're less inclined to put on muscle bulk and more inclined to put on fat.
I have read that hydrogenated fats (marge and crap industrial food) have a tendency to settle inside the body cavity so I only eat butter and as much fresh food as possible.
Agreed also about road riding - after 20 years of mountain biking and sneering at roadies I got bored with the whole scene and bought a road bike. Now I'm seriously fit, having a hell of a lot of fun and able to do good hard rides straight from my door and come home clean. The attrition on transmission and brakes is almost zero too. I just wish I had done more road riding when I was doing competitive mountain biking because I'd have been a lot more successful at it!
Switch some high intensity to longer lower intensity. Some 50-80km road rides will probably do more good.
Though what do you mean by excess weight?
Not quite a 6 pack?
Serious 1 pack?
6 months gone?
Forgotten what it looks like?
Also consider why it matters to you? Is it worth it?
Might just be tough. I carry a pot, like hmanchester mentions 'round and firm' I simply refuse to eat less. I certainly exercise enough. My arms and legs are very thin, the veins stick out on my limbs and you can't pinch any fat. You can see my ribs, but the pot looks like I've swallowed a football. Fellow riders have taken the piss for decades.
My mum is the same, thin with a pot belly.
Doesn't high intensity bypass fat burning?
If you want to burn fat you need to do more low intensity training. Buy a heartrate monitor, work out what your max heart rate is (eg when you've been doing the bootcamp stuff) and then exercise in a way that keeps your rate at between 60 and 70% of your max. If you go above that your body switches to burning carbs (sugar), which is why bootcamp will get you fit but won't necessarily get rid of the fat. You need to exercise for 30mins at 60-70% for it to start to kick in, then another hour or so. This is why road cycling is so good, unless you're Stravaing it (is it a verb now?), you'll be doing a steady pace and your HR will be in the zone.
Get your head out of the trough
2nd the low intensity training. Sounds like your doing BMF style sessions, which are great for fitness, but do little to burn fat, in my experience.
If you've eaten/exercised the same way for a while you may need to implement a change to kick your body into burning fat. You'll still need a calorie defecit to burn fat, something I struggle with when training lots, as I turn into a carb monster 🙂
Pootling about on a road bike in the "fat burning zone" looks bent as anything, it ruins the image of the sport.
We want to encourage people to take up cycling on the roads, not put them off. Seeing some overweight bloke in lycra nodding along is not going to encourage people to take up the sport whatsoever!
Go walking or mountain biking instead, then come back to road cycling when you're lean and fast
Get your head out of the trough
...then put it back in.
Repeat.
Do 5 sets of 10 reps on alternate days.
Abs of steel in no time.
^^ What the kingisdead said. It's not rocket science, but there are no quick-wins and no escaping the facts either.
This turned into a bit of a ramble, so skip to the bits in bold for the key message!
I've been doing BMF for a couple of years. It's fantastic for kick-starting your exercise regime if, like me, you find it hard to motivate yourself to do anything on your own. Aim for 3 sessions a week, take the miss one and you miss out mentality, and I went from having done zero exercise for many years (literally unable to push a heavy door open my chest and arms hurt so much after the first beginners' session) to training with the top group within a year. Lost around a stone, definitely less fat but also more muscle, so not bad.
Then I got a groin injury and was advised to cycle as an alternative way to keep active while giving it longer to recover. Found a local MTB group and my exercise pattern went from 3 x 45 mins per week to 2 x 2.5hr, lower intensity. OK, it eats into the busy schedule a bit more, but it's more enjoyable, and I've lost another half stone, now at 11.5 stone which at 6' and a historically slim build feels right.
I now need to get back into BMF to round it out. I'm aiming to do 2 rides and 2 BMF sessions a week, which I reckon should give a good balance, keeps it social (I was never that sure about the top classes, felt like they were verging on the extreme - running with someone 3 stone heavier than you on your back etc.) and gives a bit of headroom in case other commitments mean I have to miss the odd session.
Ideally I'd build some of that into a daily routine, e.g. 45 min cycle into work each way, but I've not yet figured out how to make the 25 mile commute into London work like that.
Apols to the OP, went a bit off topic!
The point is that I've discovered for myself what everyone else will tell you - short burst, [b]high intensity (BMF) is good for cardiovascular fitness[/b] and perfect for a busy schedule, but you can't get away from the fact that you need to [b]exercise for longer duration at lower intensity if you want to burn fat[/b].
[b]Diet is a given - out vs. in, no escaping it.[/b]
TBH I don't know to what extent you can control where the fat comes off and where it stays. [b]Be healthy, and be happy with who you are.[/b]
Do 5 sets of 10 reps on alternate days.
On your off days do the reverse move... hang a joint of Jamon Iberico from the ceiling.
We want to encourage people to take up cycling on the roads, not put them off. Seeing some overweight bloke in lycra nodding along is not going to encourage people to take up the sport whatsoever!
I presume your joking but I think lean whippets in lycra making riding around look like a super human achievement does more to put people of cycling. Riding a bike is so fantastically easy, its foolish to make hard work out of it.
Diet is a given - out vs. in, no escaping it.
I have read a number of studies by top science authors that would dispute this.
Ooooh... 'The Men that made us FAT' is on the kev again tonight!
i thought we'd established ultimately calories out vs calories in still applies, but what those calories are made from will influence it greatly as well as the individuals metabolism and general individualness.
My understanding is that you can eat as much fat and protein as you want and will become waif like in no time.
Also, it has become apparent that exercise is counter productive as you need to eat more to do it.
I'm writing a diet paper called 'Re-Vealed' it's not about eating veal, but becoming veal.
Lipo?
Lol the only time I had a 6 pack was when I did gymnastics when I was younger. Still there if I stretch, but more like a 4 pack these days. Especially as I'm not able to run ATM
"diet is king, workout is queen", to quote my ripped Mr universe colleague.
To the OP - can you cycle to your "bootcamp" I ride 10mile each way to my BMF classes, really good blend of various types of exercise by the time I'm home.
Google - 'BURN THE FAT, FEED THE MUSCLE' by Tom Venuto. Its an ebook and it's one of the best books about diet and training I've read. If you specifically search for the .pdf extension you might be able to find it free and read through it........very good reviews and is working wonders for me.
Actually, where is Solo? Did he not give up his other log-in and is therefore banned again?
It's not like him to let a diet thread get onto the second page without posting.
The book that Wilber linked to is available FOC if you google
[i]'BURN THE FAT, FEED THE MUSCLE' pdf Tom Venuto[/i]
Try doing more sit ups on a regular basis. That will help my friend!
1. you can't spot-lose fat from any given area of the body
2. situps are a poor exercise for strengthening abs; start with crunches
situps are a poor exercise for strengthening abs
Not if you do them properly 😉
None of this hooking your feet under a support, having someone holding your ankles or letting your knees bend - try 3 x 20 with straight legs flat on the floor, toes pointed & arms crossed over chest.
Arms folded over chest? Arms extended over head holding a 5kg plate. Wimp.
Won't make you skinny though... that's what dieting is for.
Might just be tough
+1, thinking it's at least partially that for me, looking at my family.
Drinking plenty of water seems to help though, as does running around lots and eating less. I prefer to run/bike more and still eat cake, but I'm pretty sure that's why I still have a pot sticking out.
Won't make you skinny though... that's what dieting is for.
Though I reckon there's a market for tame tape worms. Maybe I could train them to pop out by wafting a Mars bar over your 'arris.
Not sure if it's been mentioned but anyone I know with a six pack takes weights more seriously than cardio, but as stated diet is the main factor.
as a few have said, im afraid situps, crunches, whatever, wont lose fat around the waist. you cant target fat loss, it has to be minus calories im afraid, to show those glorious abs underneath 🙂
im sort of in the same boat. im weight training to add mass, but at 47, and not eating totally clean (youve got to have a life after all), theres too much attaching itself to my muffin tops 😀
so... im sort of stuck in limbo really. dont know whether to keep trying surplus calories and accept the podge, or cut them, lose fat and unfortunately muscle (but keep training to minimise loss) and then up them again when the tums gone. ho hum, wish i was 17, not 47. if i knew then what i know now etc etc...... 😀
Why do you have to lose muscle as well as fat?
a 6 pack is made in the kitchen.
And drunk in front of the telly.
Preferably with a chip supper.
😛
Interesting thread...
Longer duration, lower intensity is the key. You should be riding your road bike to work three times a week, and using different routes to mix it up.
Perhaps you should speak to someone who knows a little about nutrition, fat burning thresholds and a little physiology. PE teacher perhaps...?
8)
Why do you have to lose muscle as well as fat?
not sure really, im not an expert. read loads, especially leangains, and i used that effectively, to get down to showing my abs. unfortunately i just looked real scrawny too, so i thought id rather just get bigger all over. tried using leangains again to get that result, but couldnt eat enough in an 8hr window, just didnt feel hungry enough. so i decided to just eat as much as i wanted whenever i wanted. a nice phase of my life 😀
unfortunately its showing on the tum now. so..... in answer to your question, im sure you CAN lose weight and maintain muscle, but im not exactly sure on the best way of doing it. i think im gonna cut cals for a while and keep weight training and hope for the best. bit demoralising if my lifts start going down tho :-/ also got tendonitis at the mo which means i cant give it my all, so im just a bit bothered about losing what muscle ive already gained.
any advice welcomed 🙂
I'm going to grahamS. Sounds more fun x
Body shape - exo/endo/other (can't remember) morph. I'm currently 16 stone, even when I was 12 stone I still had a gut. So do all my family. It's body type. I'm not saying losing weight won't help you and certain exercises may help your core muscles to support a fat tum but you may have to accept that you have a particular body shape/type.
And IMHE not matter how much you lose the place you want it to go from will be the last place it does. At 12 stone I am skinny all over except the gut.
mesomorph i think is what you were looking for 🙂
I think I'm in the same boat as the OP.
I added strength training to my exercise regime - I either do Body Pump once a week or the strength training regime one of the trainers at the gym did for me. Since doing that, I've noticed that my jeans are getting a bit looser.
If you're an apple shape (tend to put on weight around the tummy) strength training and low intensity exercises are recommended.
http://www.channel4.com/4beauty/wellbeing/getting-fit/exercises-for-body-types#apple
Diet wise, low GI foods, avoid big blood sugar spikes by eating foods high in sugar or refined carbohydrates, and get enough protein particularly if you're strength training.
mesomorph i think is what you were looking for
I'm more of a xenomorph
Long, low intensity road rides in zone 2 will lose the weight.
Arms folded over chest? Arms extended over head holding a 5kg plate. Wimp.Won't make you skinny though... that's what dieting is for.
You really want to kill your abs / core - lie on back, bring knees up towards chest so legs parallel to floor. Take a large 10kg plate and rest on shins. Hold another 10kg plate between hands. Now simultaneously straighten legs with plate balancing on them (without feet touching the floor) and take plate in your hands over your head with arms straight (this can touch the floor).
Bring both plates back slowly and under control to original positions. 12 reps.
You really want to kill your abs / core
Shotgun?
davidtaylforth - Member
Pootling about on a road bike in the "fat burning zone" looks bent as anything, it ruins the image of the sport.We want to encourage people to take up cycling on the roads, not put them off. Seeing some overweight bloke in lycra nodding along is not going to encourage people to take up the sport whatsoever!
Go walking or mountain biking instead, then come back to road cycling when you're lean and fast
I dunno, my Z2 rides are at 16-17mph average. In fact science supports the opposite being so; as flange says, go long and slow on the roadbike, then come back to MTB superfit. Its worked for me.
You really want to kill your abs / core
Shotgun?
might hurt a little less 🙂
I dunno, my Z2 rides are at 16-17mph average
Knut
Slightly related, but BBC2 is good viewing at the mo. "The men who made us fat"
Okay, a bit more of the picture...I do British Military Fitness - have been in the top group for a while so am fitter than average. I can bosh out many sit ups of all varieties for extended periods of time. However, yes, I think I'm apple shaped (!) and tend to put weight on around my middle. (Genetically,both my parent aren't small) I know its about diet, and calories out vs calories in, and think I try and adhere to these principles more often than not.
About the lower intensity exercise - I can't help feeling that if I'm not sweating, its not worth it - I actually get frustrated by lower intensity work. That said, I do have a roadbike so will get out on it more often.
Next...just been on the Myprotein website and am thinking about supplements to help aid weightloss. Thoughts?
magical fairy dust as a general rule i'd say, but caffeine will boost your metabolism and the fibre supplements like ispaghula husk will make you feel fuller so could essentially act as an appetite suppressant
It's not calories out v calories in. Hormone levels and insulin in particular cause you to store fat. It's fair to say that eating a large calorie excess will mess with these and is normally related.
Any thoughts on those questions asked at the beginning of the thread?
Change your routine, eat little and often and smash out some big leg sessions and incorporate legs into your workouts a few times a week.
The reason being legs are your biggest muscles and burn more calories, muscles burn calories/energy.
Try also doing a fasted sprint session or intense training before you eat in the morning
Enjoy
Started on the PDF book linked above, it's quite interesting! Thanks willber
The Southern Yeti - Member
Why do you have to lose muscle as well as fat?
to build muscle you need to eat surplus calories... to lose weight you eat a deficit.
by doing tons of riding your use calories combine that with a low calorie diet and pure cardio you will strip fat and muscle.
you simply cannot get stronger without eating more calories than you need.
tony24 - so the answer is...
Don't do pure cardio. Right?
Or would that still mean you have to lose muscle and fat?
Who cares, I had a DEXA scan this morning and my BF% is 8.7%
The fat % for my abdominal region is 5.1%
My BMI was measured at 23.7
I'm charging for weight loss tips from now on.
I just had a Maryland Cookie.
If anyone else wants one I'm not charging.
I'm not delivering though.
/Edit I now I'm going to have another.
I don't see how road riding can lose abdominal fat - the most relaxed muscles when road riding are the abdominals. ("Ooh, but look at the professional roadies!" Yeah, they are professional sportsmen.)
Only time I had a completely flat stomach was when I was doing a fair bit of running and doing boxing training 3 hours a week. Ah, but that was so long ago...
I'm eating a box full of mini-jam doughnuts...
8.7% BF kids... you can be like me.
8.7% BF kids... you can be like me.
What? All boney and painful to spoon?
No thanks.
What? All boney and painful to spoon?
Very well defined calf muscles though
Lowest abdominal fat the tester had ever seen... she got really excited.
All muscley Jamie... I hold you tight 🙂
All muscley Jamie... I hold you tight
I imagine you're like a white Grace Jones.
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A what now? What does that involve?had a DEXA scan this morning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-energy_X-ray_absorptiometry
You can't get more accurate. Free to anyone aged 30-50 in the Oxfordshire area who's willing to become a member of the Biobank health study thing for the NHS.
[i]Lowest abdominal fat the tester had ever seen..[/i]
Amazing what OBSESSION can do for you eh? 😉