[Closed] A truly sad day for British society...

Personally I would prefer to pay more tax than for cuts to corporation tax and CGT to happen [i]at the same time[/i] as cuts to disability benefits.

The thing that I find staggering is that anyone other than the top 5% of earners votes for the inhumane, casually heartless, self-serving shower of shits!
^
from Binners.

This. I just don't get the justification for most people to vote tory.

 

And it's about time the politicians were brave enough to say so.

One of them already has, quite an important one too.

[quote=chrismac said]I dont understand how, with the deficit still rising and the debt going through the roof the government thinks it has any money to give away to anyone in the form of tax cuts and breaks.

Linky to the "deficit still rising" stats ?

So far it seems quite telling that most arguments are based on the disability cuts, but with seemingly little to back up exactly what is being cut.

Can someone explain exactly WHY top rate taxpayers (me included) need an extra £43/mo? At the expense of the disabled on benefits? FFS.

@binners if I only cared about myself why would I remain living in a country like the UK with relatively high taxes ? I could live and work in for example US, Dubai, HK or Singapore.

I could live and work in for example US, Dubai, HK or Singapore.

Sorry Jammers old boy, but that sounds like a familiar bleat from the banking fraternity as they threatened to chuck their toys out of the pram after the crisis, in protest at the merest hint of anyone regulating their unfettered greed and psychopathic risk-taking, or asking them to actually pay some tax, stop bankrupting the country, scrounging off the state, or any other dreadfully unpalatable things.

We kept hearing how they could relocate to anywhere in the world, who'd of course welcome them with open arms of course

None of them did though, did they?

I wonder why? Is it because if you're a ludicrously overpaid sociopath then London is probably the best place on earth to get all your desires, no matter how grotesque, serviced by a simpering, craven government.

Personally, my opinion was probably similar to most when they were having their little hissy fit

Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out, will you? And do send us a postcard from wherever this apparent ****ing utopia you're off to is

Mintimperial, ransos, bonnets and molgrips +1

So will my son with severe learning difficulties be better off under the current government? No. Is it a disgrace? Yes.

None of them did though, did they?

None I think is a bit strong ...

I moved to Singapore and personally knew around a dozen colleagues who did the same. Brevan Howard the hedge fund moved all their big earning traders to Geneva.

London is highly regulated, if you are the type of nutjob binners is describing there are far better places to ply your trade

Every health service in the world operates to a budget. Labour offered an extra £/bn pa for the NHS and the Tories £8bn at the GE. I know people here think thatbpromise is worthless but Labour should have been bolder.

As I said we are spending annually £130bn on nhs, £130bn on welfare, if thats not going to the right places we should look into that

@yunki I cannot think of a bigger own goal for Labour to have anything to do with a General Strike

Can someone explain exactly WHY top rate taxpayers (me included) need an extra £43/mo

The actual answer is that the 40% threshold hasn't kept pace with inflation / wage rises, with the result that a band that used to impact 1m people now catches well over 3m - had the 40% band tracked inflation at the same rates benefits and pension payments had it would currently stand at around £50K.

When renting a 2 bed flat in London can be as much as the entire take home pay for someone in this band you can see the problem. Nurses, police and teachers were never historically in the tax band for the "rich", although having said that the social justice warriors[s] tube and train drivers[/s] still earn well north of the revised 40% threshold.

although having said that the social justice warriors tube and train drivers still earn well north of the revised 40% threshold.

Yay for the politics of envy !

43 quid a month will make f all difference toward your 2 bed flat in London

Tackling the housing crisis rather than making it worse would be a better solution
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-mp-wife-used-taxpayer-7449766

The actual answer is that the 40% threshold hasn't kept pace with inflation / wage rises

Not really an answer, is it?

anyone ever come to the logical conclusion that what the world actually needs right now is a zombie apocalypse?

I moved to Singapore and personally knew around a dozen colleagues who did the same.

And yet .... here you are.

Labour need to jump on this wth both feet. Shit will stick

If the Labour Party can't make anything out of the tories cutting benefits to the disabled while giving tax breaks to top rate taxpayers then they really might as well call it a day

And yet .... here you are.

I read @roger's links and it seems that Osbourne has reduced future payments as his (?) recently (?) introduced PIP where much higher than expected (+20%) as such the bill was more than he expected and he therefore determined it was unaffordable. Also being reported there could be a Tory revolt over these proposed budget changes.

If the Labour Party can't make anything out of the tories cutting benefits to the disabled while giving tax breaks to top rate taxpayers then they really might as well call it a day

As above its not clear top rate (45+2) taxpayers are getting a cut when you factor in the personal allowance and pension tax relief changes

Whatever. They're certainly not going to be any worse off.

Unlike disabled people. Who will be considerably worse off

Apparently even some Tory MPs think this is a pretty ****ed up set of priorities. Imagine that? Tory MP's getting a bit Squamish about punishing the poor and disadvantaged? We're in unchartered waters here.

"And yet .... here you are."

Tax rate cut from 50% moved to a job less focused on pay via PAYE .

And somehow the country stumbled along without you. Maybe your absence wasn't such a blow after all?

to anybody who bleats about the injustice of the UK's system I would say: get off your backside and go and live in, for example, India or Nigeria where a huge percentage of the world's population lives, see how thay are forced to manage than come back here and tell me you live in an unjust society.

I could probably move back there tomorrow and make more money and pay less tax. Much of the reason why I live in the UK is because it's safer, fairer and because people who can't cut it in the labour market don't have to beg at the side of the road. The U.K. system is unjust. However, I acknowledge the diligent work of the current government in closing the gap between us and that country...

I have a different view to most in that I feel that we should all be treated the same tax wise in the percentage that we pay, not very popular I know, but I don't understand why anyone should have to pay a higher rate of tax if they are fortunate to earn more as they pay more in anyway.

It's all about disposable income. If someone earns enough to pick up £1000 per month after tax but spends £900 per month on rent and bills, they have £100 disposable income. With a flat tax system, someone earning 3x as much would pick up £3000 per month. Even if they spent £2000 per month on a big house nice car etc they'd still have 10x as much disposable income as the lower paid worker. In a progressive system, they would only pick up (for example) £2500, so would still have 5x as much disposable income as a lower paid worker, despite their work only being valued 3x higher by the labour market.

tldr; cost of living doesn't rise proportionately with income, so the higher paid actually have much more spare cash than the lower paid.

Corbyn has made a passable attempt at attaching the budget

'Unfairness at its very core' is a good summary

The Tory press knew this was gonna be a stinker, is plain to everyone note that Osborne's chin truck has fooled no one so.... the Sun's budget was a full on righteous front page about a 2nd division footballer doing a wee.
The daily mail devoted a page to Theresa Mays budget cleavage today.

Another thing thats gone un noticed by a lot of people is the closure first of REMPLOY, then one by one council run day centres for the disabled, and handicapped, followed by respite care centres,the second bedroom tax, and finally the loss of mobility allowances to pay for mobility cars, all these things required paid people to run them, and they to have lost their jobs, along with the disabled and long term ill being deprived of income and freedom.

There is no limit to the vindictive hatred of the working classes and the ones who cant make a fuss for themselves, eg the disabled and long term illness sufferers.

Majority not affected or gives a 5hit.

Until they are affected...

So, they forced through cutting Employment support Allowance payments last week, that's £30 gone for countless disabled people.
They continue to flip flop over the Access to Work fund, it's certainly not a stable benefit.
They are introducing blanket caps to local housing allowances (including the Shared Accommodation Rate), essentially removing disability exemptions.
They have been constantly shifting assessment thresholds for PIP assessments since they introduced them in 2013. The new one today is

The number of points awarded for the use of aids and appliances in relation to Activity 5 (Managing toilet needs or incontinence) and Activity 6 (Dressing and undressing) will be halved from 2 to 1 from 1 January 2017. This will apply all new claimants, those whose circumstances change and those undergoing reviews.

Both myself and my wife work with disabled people, she runs a lot of supported living services for Autistic adults. With the existing and proposed cuts, it might become financially impossible to pay for these services, leaving lots of vulnerable people genuinely screwed.

I can only draw one of two conclusions, our leaders are idiots or they are nasty idiots.
Anyone who can justify that list of cuts when the government is handing out tax breaks is a sociopath.

moved to a job less focused on pay via PAYE

As a higher rate payer, I'm quite happy to pay more tax as long as it's redistributed downwards rather than upwards....

There was absolutely no need to change the 40% tax threshold, or increase the ISA limit by £5k, if you can afford to save £15k every year, you're doing pretty well and another £5k won't make a big difference. Cutting CGT just benefits those with large stock portfolios, again those that need the least help.

As a higher rate taxpayer I prefer to keep as much of the money i earn to spend it how I wish.

Looks like there will be a revolt and it won't get passed.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/17/tory-rebels-osborne-disability-benefit-cuts-just-not-acceptable

As a higher rate taxpayer I prefer to keep as much of the money i earn to spend it how I wish.

**** you too!

As a higher rate taxpayer I prefer to keep as much of the money i earn to spend it how I wish.

As a higher rate taxpayer I prefer to keep as much of the money i earn to spend it how I wish!

You're going to buy some disabled people some new wheelchairs?

Big Society innit?

Well I would like to see how its going to affect me & the wife but I'm to tired from caring for my wife (yes she cant do anything for herself at all) and working during the day in a job that just clips into higher rate tax! Though it helps to pay for care etc

So I don't know if I should be happy or pissed off. But given the smug tossers I see on the news in most political debates in parliament I'm going with "They don't have a clue"

@yunki I wasn't posting in relation to you specifically just a general comment that that sort of action will likely have the opposite effect

Awesome loopholes, aren't they? - you know, for the well-paid, I mean

I'll repeat myself again, the impending Greek default and the impact on the EU economies is going to make the pain people think we are suffering today look like a grazed knee.

So that justifies cutting taxes to the better off, while slashing funding to the disabled, how exactly?

Because to me.... And you'll have to bear with me here, because I'm not very bright - but it looks to me like a bunch of overpriveledged *s giving more and more money to the better off parts of society (their mates), while considering making the lives of disabled people immeasurably more miserable, a price worth paying to make that possible.

Like I said, I'm not that bright, so it may be slightly more nuanced than that, but to me the only logical conclusion to be drawn from that is that they're a bunch of utter *ing *s! Voted for, and supported by another bunch of *ing ****s!

Do feel free to explain to me why I'm wrong, and this isn't the case at all

Reflective of the small-minded, bile, bullish "silent majority" that need to be voted against to get real progress.

The shithouse rats hide in plain sight and thrive on the in-fighting they cause by divsion, obfuscation and misinformation.

Kick the ****s into their graves.

Reading the above it's no wonder the bullish majority stay silent, the personal bile being vented here is outright bullying of people with different political views and that's what we're talking about, different political view points not absolute rights and wrongs. If you want things to change at the next election engaging with people is more likely to get them to change than haranguing them for their selfish view point.

How much somebody with disabilities needs to live is subjective (and personally I genuinely have no idea as I don't have direct experience of it) but to just assume more is always better is not right either, there has to be a balence between welfare spending and taxation. Just continually taking more tax from those perceived to be able to afford it is not right either. There's grey areas across both groups, there will be many diasable people who get far too much and only have themselves to blame for their situation, there will be many (probably) more who the state should do a lot more for. Conversely there will be many top rate earners who really don't earm their pay in any way, they're bad at what they do, lazy, easy to replace or what they do really isn't important for society (highly paid executive in an online betting firm for example) and there will be others that do vital work well, treat their staff with respect and keep a business running that supports hundreds of families.

The myopic utopian views being expressed above however caring they seem on the surface are no more helpful than the opposite end of the spectrum where all people receiving benefits are seen as undeserving scroungers. I lament the lack of thought people seem to give to very complicated matters.

That all said I do think Osbourne and co are not the right people to be running the country, their personal experience is so divorced from the majority of the population I doubt they have the knowledge to find the right balence between welfare and taxation.

For the record I am a higher rate tax payer and my eyes do water every time I see the gross amount of tax I pay and the percentage of my earnings that I lose. However I do think we have the basics in the UK right and we need to make sure everyone has the basics required for a dignified life, where that balence lies is open to question. Anyway I assume despite being in the small minority of net contributors to our country my views are vile to most of you so flame away.

f you want things to change at the next election engaging with people is more likely to get them to change than haranguing them for their selfish view point.

there will be many diasable people who get far too much and only have themselves to blame for their situation

Reading the above it's no wonder the bullish majority stay silent, the personal bile being vented here is outright bullying of people with different political views and that's what we're talking about, different political view points not absolute rights and wrongs.

Umm, no, we're not. We're talking about 2 things: fairness and truthfulness. IMO those don't fall into the park of "different political opinion", they are just basic human values.

The whole thing was just a suggestion according to newsnight.?

The sad thing is that the outrage over Osborne's Sherrif of Nottingham budget has distracted from the damage that's being wrought upon the education system, ignored the housing crisis and misses the larger picture of his user failure to meet the targets he set himself and his disastrous record as a Chancellor (in fact the last 6 years of Tory government failure)

One thing is clear,from my view on society as a GP whose patients are in the 20% most deprived in the country. (Index of multiple deprivations, ONS)

The government is more interested in solving the problems of the wealthy than the problems of the poor.

We are one of the richest countries in the world, yet there is a 15 year difference in life expectancy between the haves and have nots. The difference in disability-free life expectancy is even greater at 20 years. NHS funding is allocated mostly based on age alone, which further widens the gap. Everyone's health and life expectancy is improving, but the gradient between the rich and poor remains.

As austerity is a political decision so is health inequality.

Health inequality is wealth inequality, pure and simple.

The trickle down effect does not exist.

For those in work,it is people in low paid low status jobs who suffer most work related stress and illness due to the disparity between demand and control, the disparity between effort and reward, precariousness of employment and institutional injustice. Executive stress is a myth.

So when someone who is able to make a decision about which continent to base themselves in according to the tax rules of various different countries says that poor people would be better off voting Tory, I am amazed quite frankly.

The society we live in in this country is inherently unjust and becoming more so.

I think some of you are confused about what disabled means.

there will be many diasable people who get far too much and only have themselves to blame for their situation

You don't get disability benefit for pretending to have a bad back. I very much doubt you have any first hand experience of what it is like to be disabled or to have to go through the PIP assessments process and subsequent appeal.
Bleating on about how you pay tax while our government attacks vulnerable people like this makes me feel sick.
What you see as hand-outs pays for carers, wheelchairs, sensory equipment, adapted cars, placements in care homes, medical equipment not available on the NHS, home adaptations and basically everything a disabled person might need in order to be able to live on a slightly more level playing field.
The fact that the government is reducing points based on toileting and dressing (probably the two most universal areas of difficulty) proves the lie. They are not going after scroungers, they are going after all disabled people.
And some of you think this is OK, but paying taxes you can afford to pay is not.
Bunch of shits.

This government plans tax cuts for top rate payers. This government plans to cut benefits for disabled people. This government's priorities are wrong.

Tax rate cut from 50% moved to a job less focused on pay via PAYE - however with the benefit of hindsight I should have stayed put, ex colleagues who did so are far better off.

Weirdly enough jambalaya there are some people who consider other factors in life than how much money they get to keep for themselves. The country would be a better place if such greedy people would put their money where their mouth is and bugger off. The sooner we stop relying on the parasitic 'financial services' industry the better.

And sorry stumpyjon if you think it's 'bullying' but some people feel passionately about things like thousands of disabled people having their lives made significantly more difficult while giving tax cuts to the wealthy.

This thread just shows that the only people who support this government are the terminally selfish.

Selfish people in 'not liking being called selfish' shocker.

How much somebody with disabilities needs to live is subjective (and personally I genuinely have no idea as I don't have direct experience of it)

Yet it doesn't stop you loftily pontificating on the subject?

Allow me to enlighten you, princess. And this comes from direct experience of a local charity for the disabled, a lot with serious mental health issues, and very real specific needs. Mrs Binners was a fundraiser for them.

These people haven't manufactured some perceived disability. These are people unable to cope with day to dy tasks without help and support. As local authorities funding has been decimated. This falls increasingly to charities to pick up the slack. Their underpaid staff, and vollunteers dedicate their lives to making these disabled peoples lives bearable.

And how do you think this is funded?

Go on... hazard a guess?

In large part by the PIPs that these people get. It funds the help and care they need. So what happens now that they plan to abolish it? Who's going to provide the services these people need?

No.... me neither.

I've heard PIP referred to, by the government, as a system providing things like handrails being installed, or adopted baths. And so it can be replaced by a one off payment instead of the ongoing PIP.

This is just lies. Pure and simple

That a bit clearer to you now buttercup?

The shutting down of Remploy will be seen in years to come as one of the most appalling acts ever carried out by a government.

We're all in this together binners. Never forget that. We all have to make sacrifices for the common good.

The disabled have to accept significant reductions to their quality of life and the rich, erm... well - inheritance tax is such a bore isn't it?

For the record I am a higher rate tax payer and my eyes do water every time I see the gross amount of tax I pay and the percentage of my earnings that I lose.

Why? Just why? Why even look at that line on your payslip? You look at that and think 'wow, that's a lot, I wish I had that'. How is that anything other than greed?

As for those who complain about value for money - do you have any concept of how much a country really costs to run? So how do you know if it's really value for money or not?

The shutting down of Remploy will be seen in years to come as one of the most appalling acts ever carried out by a government.

This plus 1000.

For the record I am a higher rate tax payer and my eyes do water every time I see the gross amount of tax I pay and the percentage of my earnings that I lose.

I often think it's quite low, given everything I get for free: Education, Health service, Roads, Police, Legal system. I could never have made it to where I am today without all these great public services, so I'm quite happy to pay for them. In fact I'd be dead, as I've been told my heart stopped when I was born, so only thanks to the NHS am I actually alive and get to pay tax...

And sorry stumpyjon if you think it's 'bullying' but some people feel passionately about things like thousands of disabled people having their lives made significantly more difficult while giving tax cuts to the wealthy.

I think you are (perhaps purposely?) missing stumpyjon's point - which was to state that such aggressive overtones in your argument do nothing to bridge the perceived gap.
It is important to take on board and consider other policital viewpoints - not hold on to an ideaology and vehemently defend it. It all boils to to subjectiveness.
On paper, I mean, literally writing 'tories take from the poor and give to their rich friends' - Yes, that would suggest disgust is required.
However, the reality of what is written is quite probably something else. I would imagine that the angriest responders are probably not willing to consider this though.

If you want things to change at the next election engaging with people is more likely to get them to change than haranguing them for their selfish view point.

I would honestly say that having been a pretty constant member of STW for the last few years I have read with interest many general threads and many political threads and as a result I honestly do feel slightly more rounded in my views, which is a good thing(?). Heck, I changed my vote for the first time in my life at the last general election!.

However, there does seem to be an extremely aggressive overtone that spills over anytime someone suggests support for a view that may challenge the left.
Fair enough, you are passionate about your views - but without the engagement mentioned above you are just likely to keep adding to this silent majority. Stumpyjon made some good points but instead you seem to want to riducule him - I don't think that is a balanced approach.

EAT THE RICH

slimjim78 - Member
Stumpyjon made some good points but instead you seem to want to riducule him

Possibly, but whether he did or didn't, he definitely did say

there will be many diasable people who get far too much and only have themselves to blame for their situation

Granted - i think that particular line was particularly badly worded.

I 'think', or at least my initial interpretation was that there are many claimants suffering side effects of alcoholism, diabetes, smoking, drug abuse etc etc - that have made essentially poor lifestyle choices that could have been avoided. And we should perhaps make the distiction clearer between those possibly abusing the benefit system (too stressed to work?) and those genuinely in need.

as he did say - the lines drawn are a very grey area.

I and clearly many people engaging on this thread, knows one or many disabled people directly exposed to the brunt of the cuts in question.

For the record I am a higher rate tax payer and my eyes do water every time I see the gross amount of tax I pay and the percentage of my earnings that I lose.

You only pay higher-rate tax on income nearly double the national average. And you get higher-rate tax relief on your pension. And reduced NI contributions. You also pay VAT, council tax, fuel duty etc at the same rate as everyone else.

Edited to add: http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/theeffectsoftaxesandbenefitsonhouseholdincome/2015-06-29/pdf

Table 1 shows that the poorest quintile pays a higher percentage of income in tax than the richest quintile.

I don't think the aggression is confined to the left slimjim78. Perhaps the vehemence of some replies on this thread is due to the stark juxtaposition of tax cuts for top rate payers and benefit cuts for disabled people. That's the reality of this government. I suspect that Boris Johnson would support both these measures but right now he's keeping quiet because Osborne has done his Robin Hood in reverse act robbing the poor to pay for the well off. Prime Minister Johnson anyone?

I 'think', or at least my initial interpretation was that there are many claimants suffering side effects of alcoholism, diabetes, smoking, drug abuse etc etc - that have made essentially poor lifestyle choices that could have been avoided. And we should perhaps make the distiction clearer between those possibly abusing the benefit system (too stressed to work?) and those genuinely in need.

You accuse other people of being nasty but the number of mean-spirited, judgmental assumptions just in that little bit is quite astonishing.

Why? Just why? Why even look at that line on your payslip? You look at that and think 'wow, that's a lot, I wish I had that'. How is that anything other than greed?

I pay very close attention to all the numbers on my payslip; I even understand what most of them mean. Quite why anyone wouldn't is beyond me as it informs quite a lot of other decisions.

Blaming disability benefits claimants for being in a position to have to claim said benefits is really missing the point massively.
Most of an individual's advantage or disadvantage in life, in both social and health terms is bestowed on them before they leave school, much of it is fixed before they are born.
Suggesting that people should just bloody well get themselves out of this pickle by trying harder is typical of what those with all the advantage would say of those with all the disadvantage.
When people look at someone else's lifestyle decisions it is important to consider what choices they have and how easy it is for them to change their behaviour.
Imagine a single mum in a tower block with three kids under 5 and a retired gent in his mortgage paid house in the village. Both smoke. Both would benefit from stopping. Who would find it easier to stop? Who would find it easier to access services to help them stop? Who would the services be offered to? Who would be the most "efficient " user of resources? The low hanging fruit for the target driven smoking cessation service to help with most chance of success?
So the person in greatest need is least likely to get help because it's harder to help them, and their social and health and economic disadvantage continues to grow.
The welfare state is seen by the right as just a cost, a drain on the economy.
It's not, it's an investment in the future of society and in humanity.
Why do we spend money educating our kids? Just for the sake of it? Or so that there will be an overall benefit to society.
The welfare state is being dismantled as we speak and society will be worse because of it in the future.
So yeah, worry about how much tax you pay cos that money you save will have to help you in your old age when the state has given up on you.

I fail to see the problem. With the spendid reduction in CGT and higher rate tax surely now we can all afford to keep our disabled relatives in the attics of country houses/alms houses on our estates?

slimjim78

The points scoring system, I would imagine, was an attempt at making a fair assessment of someones physical ability in relation to thier disability.

No, that's how it was described and how GO would like it to be viewed. The reality is that it is an incredibly transparent and cynical mechanism for cutting the amount being paid out without any consideration or dignity for the members of society in the firing line.

It is and always has been completely outcome driven, meaning that the people previously getting the benefits are now at the mercy of an arbitrary threshold they may or may not meet.

£30 per week cuts from the poorest and disabled BUT the Govt are after an 11% pay rise ..... we're all in this together!!! Yea Right Gidion ya tax dodging Fop :/ multi millionaires telling the poor to accept less, Truly shameful 😡

Incidentally my Dads had three strokes, got angina, arthritis, type 1 diabetes, vascular dementia and bowel cancer. Deemed ineligible for PIPS, and my mum couldn't even get carers allowance, won on appeal but the process took 18 months and nearly pushed my mum over the edge, thankfully now both OAPs and as such out of the worst of it. The system's a ****ing disgrace as it is never mind what these pricks are planning for it.

What I really can not get my head around is the assessment companies (whatever they're called) and the apparent 'incentivisation' that exists for assessors to refuse funding. Have even heard of an assessor fabricate an applicant's replies when said applicant was bed bound.

Utterly morally repugnant. 😐

Sorry to hear that thestabiliser

Incidentally my Dads had three strokes, got angina, arthritis, type 1 diabetes, vascular dementia and bowel cancer. Deemed ineligible for PIPS, and my mum couldn't even get carers allowance, won on appeal but the process took 18 months and nearly pushed my mum over the edge

Anyone going to ask whether there were some lifestyle factors involved which would mean that making his life a misery was somehow justified? Thought not, cos that would make you a bit of a....

Well that was pretty predictable.

[s]Maybe my statement that a lot of people receiving disability support only have themselves to blame was pretty blunt but as slimjim pointed out there are many avoidable was of becoming disabled.[/s]

You know what I can't even be bothered, you're all right anyone earning more than average doesn't deserve it and everyone with a health issue is an innocent ground under the jack boot of the better off, lets keep it nice and black and white so we don't have to think too hard about the genuinely difficult issues in society. While we're at lets all assume because we believe something its an absolute truth (for the record there are some things that are fundamentally right like the speed of light, anything to do with morals and fairness is highly subjective). I'll go back to being part of the silent bullish majority. No wonder people this country don't like to engage.

The daily mash sums up those defending this:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/we-want-their-parking-spaces-too-say-middle-classes-20160317107241

Genetic testing for all, you know it makes sense.

The welfare state is being dismantled as we speak and society will be worse because of it in the future

why even look at that line on your payslip

@grum I've posted dozens of times that at 40% max I think tax is reasonably fair. Above that combined with removing personal allowance, scalaing back pension allowances for private sector whilst state still enjoy gold plated pension - yup I think its too high and a disincentive to work in the UK. Outside investors likelwise make similar decisons.

You know what I can't even be bothered, you're all right anyone earning more than average doesn't deserve it

[img] [/img]

Why even look at a restaurant bill or a bar tab ? [s]You look to see if you've been charged the correct amount[/s] just half inch the tip on the way out.

FIFY

What an illuminating thread

According to a doc, there is no such thing as executive stress

Public services are free

And we have government full of truly evil people

And it's greedy to want to understand how much ofyour income is taken by these nasty, greedy, evil folk who run our country ( pretty badly by all accounts)

Really is a sad day.

You know what I can't even be bothered, you're all right anyone earning more than average doesn't deserve it and everyone with a health issue is an innocent ground under the jack boot of the better off, lets keep it nice and black and white so we don't have to think too hard about the genuinely difficult issues in society. While we're at lets all assume because we believe something its an absolute truth (for the record there are some things that are fundamentally right like the speed of light, anything to do with morals and fairness is highly subjective). I'll go back to being part of the silent bullish majority. No wonder people this country don't like to engage.

[img] [/img]

Toughen up princess. Seriously. It's a shame you don't have the confidence in your opinions/arguments to talk about them without flouncing when people disagree, but that's no-one's fault but your own.

Why call him princess other than to be rude? Is it a reference to sexuality in some way? Or is there a real point?

It's an expression, no reference to sexuality intended. This kind of stuff is incredibly childish and illogically argued though:

You know what I can't even be bothered, you're all right anyone earning more than average doesn't deserve it and everyone with a health issue is an innocent ground under the jack boot of the better off,

Not sure it really merits a serious response.

Your whole post:

What an illuminating thread

According to a doc, there is no such thing as executive stress

Public services are free

And we have government full of truly evil people

And it's greedy to want to understand how much ofyour income is taken by these nasty, greedy, evil folk who run our country ( pretty badly by all accounts)

Really is a sad day.

Is there a real point?

I'll go back to being part of the silent bullish majority.

Weren't you just complaining about being one of the minority that is actually a net contributor^ to the UK?

^ only fiscally, sugar