[Closed] A religious question...

9 pages and 5 packets of biscuits...

Oh, and is she called Louise?

2 flounces and one banning?

haha, not a Louise. It is a genuine question and I am just really intrigued about their behaviour and views, but do not want to get in to a debate with them about it, as it won't end well.

Is the earth flat, ask her that.

Or

Its very difficult to distinguish clinically extreme religion and mental illnesses

Sounds to me like one of those extreme "Christian" cults

Why would they not be allowed hearts or anything slightly magical

Because people have different values.

Would you give your child a model penis to play with? A toy gun etc...

Its very difficult to distinguish clinically extreme religion and mental illnesses

Joking aside I was going to comment something like this.   I wonder for the impact and safety of the Children but am unsure what to suggest as a potential intervention, I'm sure more educated people will be along to assist.   Good luck.

Some form of evangelical Christian aka happy-clappy god botherers. May have an American head office or pastor. Ask them where they stand on speaking in tongues ( not the Arcade Fire song) Some of my family went that way- bit mad tbh. No offence but those elements of my family were a bit gullible/ soft headed)

have now been banned from owning, watching, seeing or reading anything that could be magical,

My MiL won’t watch things like Harry Potter and warns my kids about Halloween for some weird reasons. No idea which type of Christian she is, but she is and always has been, completely mad and quite difficult for my wife to deal with a lot of the time. (The MiL was working as a missionary in Nairobi when I first met my wife. The MiL wouldn’t come to our wedding because it wasn’t in a church. She almost didn’t go to her father’s funeral because she hadn’t received an invitation! I could go on and on..)

It really is impacting upon her mental and physical health, and now thinking she has let the devil in, it is making it worse. She has been hospitalised 3 or 4 times in the last month. She took a huge amount of toys and clothing down to the charity shop over Christmas as it could be seen to have things that god/devil may like not approve of etc.

"OH sister in law and husband "... so the husband is your wife's brother ??

whatever.... OH sounds bridezilla .... what's more important the little girl being there or a plastic heart ??

Good luck

It's their beliefs and you're not allowed to question beliefs on this forum or you get a ban.

Smile, humour them and move on.

what form/brand of Christianity are they?

Why don't you ask them?

Sounds like JW to me.
It’ll take the kids decades to break free from that crap

My partner grew up in an evangelical, born again family, not quite as extreme as the OPs description but not far off. It can be very selective, cultish, local "preachers" or family members can set the tone for what is accepted. Illness and misfortune can be seen as punishment. Prayer is often seen as only way to heal etc.....
Its very insidious and can leave kids affected deeply as they either absorb the beliefs or find it very hard to break away.

OH sister in law and husband “… so the husband is your wife’s brother ??

Probably not seeing as a wedding is mentioned in the same post? Unless getting married twice is now a thing.

Would you give your child a model penis to play with? A toy gun etc…

I count myself as very lucky - as a boy my parents gave me a penis shaped gun

“OH sister in law and husband “… so the husband is your wife’s brother ??

I was trying to work that out too, glad it's not just me being dim.

TBH if it were me and that sort of tenuous "family" relationship I'd just down communications and get on with my life. Might as well argue with brexiters, it's like playing chess with a pigeon.

I count myself as very lucky – as a boy my parents gave me a penis shaped gun

Careful it doesn't go off half-cocked.

I didn't know my wife was a God botherer until I fell for her. She had strayed from the flock and I found her family were/are super religious.

Been together 13 years and its only then last 3 that jesus has made a big return to her life. Now its jesus fm on the radio and church twice a week. My kids are being indoctrinated by my wife and inlaws and extended family. I'm shot down if I tell my kids what I think. Feel your pain.

My wife's uncle wouldn't let his kids watch sabrina the teenage witch, Harry Potter etc. All because they were satanic.

My brother in law (uncle jesus) sprouts crap on fb about abortion being satanic and has stated, when asked that if his 11 year old daughter got pregnant as a result of rape he would force her to keep it. Mind blown.

Feel your pain.

In my house my 5 year old gets reminded not to say "oh my god" by the wife but can shout "turd egg" at his brother.....

Kerley, I spat my coffee out at that!

Sorry, so my OHs brother is married to the person in question.

my parents gave me a penis shaped gun

Was it for shooting or was it for fun?

Just tell me you called it Charlene.

been banned from owning, watching, seeing or reading anything that could be magical, construed to be ‘not-real’

What, like God, Jesus and the bible??

Just tell me you called it Charlene

Dick, surely?

TBH if it were me and that sort of tenuous “family” relationship I’d just down communications and get on with my life.

Why wouldn't you just respect their beliefs and agree with everything they say?

Serious answer. If she has been hospitalised with mental health issues that much recently then I would be reasonably confident that they will be on social work radar and CPNs might well be involved as well. They should take charge of any safeguarding issues.

Childrens services are in as poor a state as other parts of health and social care and daft tho it may sound kids are often better with a far from perfect family than in care.

You can report to childrens services yourself if you really think the kids at risk. You can even do this anonymously I think. Your local council will have a phone number to do this.

You would however need specific concerns not just " they are over religious"

Olly - that's a bit crap! No-one has a right to force their beliefs (or lack of them) on to any other person and especially so when they have just suddenly decided to re-find that belief and try to make others change theirs.

No-one has a right to force their beliefs (or lack of them) on to any other person

Wrong!

Personally I would be pissed off with your misses for wanting a heart shaped flower wand.

From the medical intervention your OH SiL sounds like she is experiencing some mental health issues.

I would be more concerned about that than the religious thing now - as it is probably more the centre of her problem.

As what could be described as an evangelical Christian myself I think this is quite extreme behaviour.
The problem can be that some people can take what most would say are reasonable teachings in church too far, reading into things too much. I’ve seen people act in really strange ways which aren’t what the wider congregation do or believe. Unfortunately some people like to take some things to extremes, there can be many reasons for it and it’s hard to find the root cause and challenge extreme behaviours, even if you know those people well. In our church we beleive very much in good relationships between people so we can look out for each other and support each other, and non churchgoers, in our daily live. An attitude like the person in the OP would be challenged and discussed to make sure the person was being balanced in what they believed.
It could be an extreme church they are attending, but thankfully those institutions are rare.
In our church things are fairly balanced, we are advised to avoid extreme drinking/drugs etc but really in the same way that a doctor would do! As far as Halloween goes our pastor actually said last year that the congregation shouldn’t remove themselves from it and should use it to meet people in their street and be part of the community. We should use wisdom to not watch or consume things which might be bad for our mind or body - not holding something pretty like a stick with a heart on it is very weird.

And the worrying thing is, these people are walking among us.

If I were to build a shrine to the fairies at the bottom of my garden (assuming I had one) or started to **** over car doors because that it what I believed in I would be classed a loon or possibly sectioned.

What's a flower wand ?

What’s a flower wand ?

Go on, I bet you can work it out if you had to.

They are only distantly connected to you. The wand thing may be annoying, but there's nothing you can do so you might as well just shrug and move on. You're not going to persuade them to see the error of their ways or anything like that, so don't waste your time.

^ this. Just tweak the wand. It's just bent metal, make it into a different shape.

Okay, for folks of scientific persuasion or so called "rational" minds (can rationality covers for all contingencies?) just make it what you will.

Now, if you’re still reading, my question is, what form/brand of Christianity are they?

Could be orthodox or all of them since all religions will have the evil ones but I am just guessing based on my "research". i.e. you cannot have all the good without evils vice versa.

Why would they not be allowed hearts or anything slightly magical?

Depending on the association of the "invisible beings" with shape of the items but again but I am just guessing.

As far as I know based on my "research", again, the cause of such "invisible beings" can be around 20% which is not deadly on total health, but if it is a long term accumulation of the effect it will turn into something serious (real health problems etc) later on in life. If the person has already suffered from some health problems that 20% will exacerbate the situation and may turn serious.

Base on my "research" symptoms can come in various forms such as:

(Note that I assume the person has gone for medical check and come up as clear and healthy but do check first)

The following assume that the person has healthy diet with no serious health problems etc and no mental health gene in the family.

1. Constant recurring dreams or same dreams of the dead, baby or specific animals like snake (other animals too but must be constant).
2. Pain at certain parts of the body at certain time of the day. Pain can change or move around to different part of the body but medical checks come up as clear and healthy.
3. Agitation, short temper, panic attack, anxiety, extreme stress for no reasons. (some called this mental health and yes, it can cause mental health too).
4. Seeing dark or white shadows.
5. Look at the eyes of the person to see if there is a horizontal line across the eye(s). (may look like there is a cataract or just simply a line)
6. The feet felt like there is something inside the skin (a bit like half shoe sole insert inside the bottom of the feet)
7. Skin on body feels like there is something crawling.
8. Unknown bruise(s) appearing on body not due to knocks or etc.
9. White blood cells increasing for no reasons.
10. Unable to rest or sleep well.

Also check the history of the house and the land it built on.

Depending on people some or all of the above symptoms might have happened. The seriousness I am not sure. If they have all of them or majority of the symptoms then there is a likelihood something else is at play which science cannot explained.

Ask them for their reasons as there must be something logical that caused them to think in such a way. i.e. dream? Seen something? chemical hallucination in the environment?

Remedy(s) depends on their entire religious belief ...

What’s a flower wand ?

A daffodil sellotaped to a stick with a £30 price tag.

Got to say I might be a bit anti heart wands too - and I’m firmly in the god can shove it camp. Why can’t the the flower girls carry....well....flowers?

Just to check out the hypocrisy levels - are you and your other half on the god botherer spectrum at all yourselves and is your heart wand waving wedding in a church?

Do away with the "flower wand" and tell her "it's a stick with a heart on the end" instead.

Morrisey as a flower girl at a recent wedding...

As far as Halloween goes our pastor actually said last year that the congregation shouldn’t remove themselves from it

Don’t you think it’s odd that someone should feel the need to tell you that?

The OP's description sounds like most Christian or Muslim Africans; the churches and mosques exert a powerful control over less-educated people by filling their heads with superstitions. And yes, once indoctrinated it can take kids decades to rationalise these fears away and get on with a balanced life. I know; I was brought up a strict Catholic.

Having been into that sort o’thing many years ago before deciding it’s all bollocks I’d say weird views about the ‘occult’ can be pretty rife amongst the evangelical Christian movements, and that’s before you get to the craziness of cults and the like.
Personally I’d just accept that they’re fairly harmless nutters and go along with it to avoid stress!
Kids will always end up making their own minds up sooner or later, indoctrination or not, and evangelical Christians do at least believe in love and generally being nice to each other, so it could be worse!

a penis shaped gun

Officer I was just cleaning it and it went off in my hand

evangelical Christians do at least believe in love and generally being nice to each other, so it could be worse!

It'd be interesting to tell them your brother is marrying their boyfriend and see how much love and general niceness you get back.

Either accept and ignore or see it as an opportunity for some sport.

Vritually every argument yet for the existence of a monotheistic Christian God is a fallacy ridden mess. It's worth understanding some of the basic ones,

From the classic "I believe in God because the bible says so", which begs the question "Why do you believe the bible?" For which the textbook answer is "It's the WORD OF GOD".

If you get a smarter one just ask them to describe God, each of the attributes can be bashed on the head pretty quick. "God is infinite". So, the shit you did this morning is part of God? "No, don't be silly". "Well he isn't infinite then is he?"

Etc. They've all been written down for about 300years, with the added bonus you don't get hung, drawn and quartered for saying them these days.

If anyone absolutely refutes the existence of god fullstop then I'd really like to hear your reasoning because most of the arguments are also a fallacy ridden mess.

dangeourbrain, are you our florist?!

Thanks for replies so far, some really interesting comments. In terms of beliefs and churches, they have just started doing their own Sunday school and church service at their own house, as they fell out with their old pastor (which is a recurring theme). So, no one is challenging their views at all, which I find quite scary.

chewk, it is funny you have said those things, as it has been panic attacks, paralysis of one arm and slurring of speech that she has been taken to hospital for. At first, Drs thought it could have been a stroke, but after many many tests and scans, they cannot find anything wrong. Unfortunately, she thinks the answer to all these issues is to just...pray. Which probably in turn is making it worse.

BTW- I had no say in the flowers and a flower wand (and a wand apparently is easier for a 3 year old to carry than a bunch of flowers, so I am told) another edit, the heart at the end is also something they are disputing. She apparently does not like the heart shape as a symbol.

She apparently does not like the heart shape as a symbol.

Don’t use a heart shape, then. Use a real heart. You’ll get your reward in heaven if you can get the child to bite into it and grin manically at the believers. 😁

I'd be booking a magician for the reception.

I am pushing for some sort of Pagan sacrifice at the wedding now!

I am pushing for some sort of Pagan sacrifice at the wedding now!

Blood eagle in the name of Odin!

😀 😛

dangeourbrain, are you our florist?!

You said wedding which is florist* for "pick a high end of sensible number and put a 0 on the end."

*see also hotels and restaurants.

The daftest thing with this, is while its called a 'wand' does she really think a wand with a heart shape at the top is in anyway connected to 'magic and make believe'??

The daftest thing with this, is while its called a ‘wand’ does she really think a wand with a heart shape at the top is in anyway connected to ‘magic and make believe’??

No crazier than my MiL thinking that Harry Potter films are somehow satanic.

Crazyjenkins, I am afraid so.

chewk, it is funny you have said those things, as it has been panic attacks, paralysis of one arm and slurring of speech that she has been taken to hospital for. At first, Drs thought it could have been a stroke, but after many many tests and scans, they cannot find anything wrong. Unfortunately, she thinks the answer to all these issues is to just…pray. Which probably in turn is making it worse.

Yes, this sounds weird as doctor has given her all clear. She might want to check again with other doctors to confirm there is nothing physically wrong with her health.

She can pray (only temporary remedy during the prayer) but she must be strong in her mind too (guard her mind strongly) as any sense of fear or weaknesses will cause more problems. Fear can cause all sort of things as in panic attack, increase heart beat (due to fear), pain in the chest etc ...

Note that people with scientific persuasion has a very strong belief in science and their mind is strong (guarded) hence they are also very good or strong at blocking or Not being "influenced" by the invisible beings. The invisible beings don't like messing with them because there is no fun in doing so because of their stubbornness or strong will.

Tell her Not to fear them but be steadfast in her belief whatever that is. Live life as normal but not stray away from the good. I think "they" are playing with her minds. Sometimes it will last for a while but sometimes it will last for years for entire life until she sort it out with the help from someone specialise in dealing with such invisible entity(s).

The invisible entity(s) can reside in a person in areas such as back of the head, chest (heart area), stomach, groin area, lower back, feet and arms. Until they are cast out she will have problems in these areas depending on where the entity(s) stays.

Oh ya, if she start hearing voices often (a bit like schizophrenia) then the symptom is getting worse. Again, check with doctor first and find out if she has such gene.

Ultimately, she needs to cast them out if she is really being messed around by the invisible entity. All she needs to do is to find a priest that specialises in this field. The practice is simple and No mambo jumbo weird stuff. Just reading from the holy scripture plus sprinkle with holy water. All these must be done by a PROPER true priest (not con artist) and usually No money or sexual favour is exchanged.

Note that there is logic to all this even if this does not sound scientific. If the priest is "powerful" then after the casting out she will feel well instantly or within few days or short period of time. Sometimes the priest will have to perform the cleansing for a few times depending on the entity(s).

Try this simple remedy to see if it works ... this is only temporary and will last for few days.

Mix the followings: (amount depending on your liking)
Coarse sea salt (must be coarse sea salt)
Black pepper cone (whole)
Black vinegar (traditional ones will do)
Then sprinkle around the house or surrounding compound see if there is some improvements. Certain invisible entity(s) don't like this mixture ... not sure if it is due to the smell or the acidity etc of the mixture. I need to find out the reason sometimes ...

The daftest thing with this, is while its called a ‘wand’ does she really think a wand with a heart shape at the top is in anyway connected to ‘magic and make believe’??

Well they are a bit summerisle in honesty, though I doubt Britt Ekland would be so welcome at the wedding.

Oh ya, ask them about their recent dreams.

It’ll take the kids decades to break free from that crap

Getting on for half of the kids I went to school with who came from seriously proscriptive religious families either had children of their own or spectacular drug habits by the time they were eighteen so breaking free doesn’t seem to be an issue. It's more avoiding massively exaggerated teenage rebellion.

Does she wear mascara Mrwhyte? Cos if she does, you could always drop in conversation they use wands to apply, and see what she says, just for some sport like!

She can pray (only temporary remedy during the prayer) but she must be strong in her mind too (guard her mind strongly) as any sense of fear or weaknesses will cause more problems.

You might not realise you're doing it, but that's the same form of dodgy argument Believe in god because bible/Bible is the word of god.

Prayer with sufficient strength will fix it
If it is not fixed the prayer is not strong enough

It doesn't matter what way round you put it, each statement confirms the other.

^^you see I read chewk's explanation as "placebos only work if you believe that they do" which is for some people, entirely true.

It doesn’t matter what way round you put it, each statement confirms the other.

Actually the prayer is to help her concentrate her mind or to guard her mind without being distracted by fear. The prayer is also a form of reminding the invisible entity that their behaviour or what they are doing are wrong. i.e. they have broken the "rules" for messing with people.

^^you see I read chewk’s explanation as “placebos only work if you believe that they do” which is for some people, entirely true.

Actually the mixture is more science then placebos because the dimension in which the entity(s) resides have different feel to the elements (mixture) of our dimension. As for the prayers that is to help a person concentrate on their mind. i.e. something to focus on and to avoid unnecessary distraction such as fear.

Yes, in scientific term they called the placebos but what else do they have to loose considering the fact they pray at home and sprinkle the mixture (worst case scenario the house smell like vinegar and it cost pennies).

Wow Chewkw is doing a good job of pretending to be more crazy than the OP's SiL.

(worst case scenario you house smell like vinegar and it cost pennies).

Well it's cheaper than a cat I suppose.

Wow Chewkw is doing a good job of pretending to be more crazy than the OP’s SiL.

Why? 🤔

If science cannot solve the problem why not try other method(s)? Isn't that the logical way to progress or are you saying that rationality cover for all contingencies even the unexplained?

As Arthur Conan Doyle once said "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

Wow Chewkw is doing a good job of pretending to be more crazy than the OP’s SiL.

what makes you so sure they’re not the same person?

what makes you so sure they’re not the same person?

😄

OH is a bit angry as already paid for, and just thinks it bonkers.

Was it expensive? I would be surprised if the cost is important and the child will be just as happy to have it afterwards

Just thinks it bonkers? So do most of us including those of faith.  The wand or otherwise isn't the issue here either

Find a solution that keeps the couple getting married happy and moan on here.  It's the right thing to do

seeing or reading anything that could be magical, construed to be ‘not-real’... They are super religious

It may have already been said (skim read, sorry) but this statement right here is beyond satire. Wow.

am unsure what to suggest as a potential intervention

I’d hide in their roof and whisper in to the water pipes at night. God or Devil? You decide! Use your new powers to convince them that flower wands and Potter are okay or tell them they need to wear merino wool undergarments to keep the devil at bay. The possibilities here are endless.

On a serious note it sounds like she might be ill. Is the husband the same or can he be reasoned with? Sounds shite for the kids.

it has been panic attacks, paralysis of one arm and slurring of speech that she has been taken to hospital for. At first, Drs thought it could have been a stroke, but after many many tests and scans, they cannot find anything wrong. Unfortunately, she thinks the answer to all these issues is to just…pray. Which probably in turn is making it worse.

Obviously possessed by a fun sponge demon. Get an exorcist in there sharpish. It’ll be magic wands for all by tea time tomorrow!

You're bashing Chewkw for his comments but he's bang on the money here:

Certain invisible entity(s) don’t like this mixture … not sure if it is due to the smell or the acidity etc of the mixture. I need to find out the reason sometimes …

I sprinkled some condiments around my house the other day and since then I have absolutely not been visited by any invisible entities. My anti-tiger spray is proving 100% effective too.

If science cannot solve the problem why not try other method(s)? Isn’t that the logical way to progress or are you saying that rationality cover for all contingencies even the unexplained?

If science cannot solve the problem, one cannot instead just make up some random bollocks and present it as a viable and directly comparable alternative, no.

If anyone absolutely refutes the existence of god fullstop then I’d really like to hear your reasoning because most of the arguments are also a fallacy ridden mess.

I'll have a go at this later (and I've done so on previous posts), but I need to get some food in first.

Are all Muslims mentally ill as well, or is it just Christians?

Are all Muslims mentally ill as well, or is it just Christians?

Not bothered to read the thread then, or do you think all Christians and Muslims are as described in the opening post?

If anyone absolutely refutes the existence of god fullstop then I’d really like to hear your reasoning because most of the arguments are also a fallacy ridden mess.

God can’t exist because of Eric The God-Eating Magic Penguin. Since Eric is God-Eating by definition, he has no choice but to eat God. So, if God exists, He automatically ceases to exist as a result of being eaten. Unless you can prove that Eric doesn’t exist, God doesn’t exist. Even if you can prove that Eric doesn’t exist, that same proof will also be applicable to God. There are only two possibilities: either you can prove that Eric doesn’t exist or you can’t. In both cases it logically follows that God doesn’t exist.

The only thing I can see wrong with this is the suggestion that being eaten causes something to cease to exist.

Why would they not be allowed hearts or anything slightly magical

Because people have different values.

Would you give your child a model penis to play with? A toy gun etc…

Having a wee problem seeing a connection between a stick with a heart on the end, and a gun or a dildo.
Honestly, what possible reason can someone have to find a heart on a stick a problematic symbol? The heart is an almost universal symbol for love, there’s no magical or demonic aspect to it; except, perhaps, in the mind of someone who’s in the early stages of some form of mental illness.
It’s clearly irrational.