[Closed] A question for Brexiteers to answer ( valid point or not)

Traitor

Because it suits their agenda of a low regulation low wage economy thats why

I'm dancing with brexiteers in my eyes

Where's your dunkDun spirit you filthy remoaner ,!?!

I completely agree OP.

Politicians are allowed to lie as part of their job. Just ask Alistair Carmichael. The voting public should know this and take it into consideration when deciding what to vote for. You can't expect anyone else to hold them to account when we can't even be bothered to do so ourselves and vote them in time and time again.

Because democracy.

You know - that thing where a disproportionately  representative Government

1) forces a binary referendum on a highly complex issue, fuelled not just by mis-information but by an absence of  necessary information,

2) uses a narrow victory as mandate for an extreme course of action determined without reference to the fact that the result implied moderation,

3) and then when the electorate tries to kick them out at the General Election uses billions of pounds of tax payers money (despite its policy of austerity) to bribe a minority, regional and highly sectarian party to cling on to power.

Democracy at its finest.

dunkDun? looking for vomit emoji if thats D. Smith you're referring too. Detest the bloke .

It amazes me that the very politicians forcing it through are exactly the ones who would be fighting it if it was being forced upon us by other countries (Germany).

Call me dense but I still cannot understand how the Gov’t could have allowed and indeed respect the result of a vote which was made by a population who were fed incorrect information during the campaign...

Indeed. Project Fear was a pack of lies, and without it a much higher percentage would have voted out.

Excellent answer Curto ..finely articulated and i shall be adding that to my list of things to tell children in the future who ask why.

So 5thelephant are you campaigning for a re run as people were misled..seems only right surely?

There're some good reasons for Brexit. I know quite a few Brexit voters, and the ones I've asked didn't vote for it because of immigrants or the NHS. I've not seen any stats to tell me why the general public voted for it though.
The problem I find is if you see any Brexit related stuff on social media, you end up thinking all Brexit voters are thick, ignorant racists and the country would be better off if they were dead.

"Indeed. Project Fear was a pack of lies, and without it a much higher percentage would have voted out."

+1

I feel so very sorry for the people who were not clever enough to see Project Fear for what it was - propaganda designed to appeal to greed and fear.

Still, mustn't put them down to reinforce my own fragile sense of superiority, eh ?

So Cranberry ..you'd be happy with a re run as you're so confident and as you say ..people were mislead

Hmm. So we also demand a new election every time the government show they didn't exactly tell the truth in their manifesto?

Because that would be a total bit of a mess .

On a pro leave forum that I visit the reasoning is this....

Everyone saw the bus claim , looked into the facts and found that it was a lie. Having carefully analysed all the other data they still voted to leave.

Everyone knew the bus was a lie , so the bus claims aren't in anyway relevant to the argument.

Not even STW's very  own Brexit Brigadier and his trusty side kick have used that argument yet.

Oooh! Well done swear filter. 'Total bit of a mess' indeed.

It was the government hugely underestimated the extent to which we wanted to stop the tidal wave of Johnny Foreigners from coming over here, freeloading on our NHS, making no valuable contribution to the economy, yet at the same time depriving us of the jobs we are entitled to.

Economics and Project Fear had little to do with the eventual outcome. It was basic "blame all our troubles on THEM" syndrome. Slough voted out btw. think about that, basically a town of migrants wanting to pull up the drawbridge.

If people had thought about economics, we would not be in this cesspit of decrepitude.

It is a total bit of a mess anyhow

Having discussed Brexit with friends (middle-age demograph) their views are much the same as mine.  The EU has morphed into something totally beyond its remit with an ever increasing cost to tax payers.  Yes, it was brilliant from the point of view of trading and businesses gained.  But it's become a runaway train.

Back to voting though.  How dare the Conservative Party insult the public's intelligence by offering a "yes" or "no" vote and conveniently not proferring any detail.  That is outrageous, treating Joe Public as stupid.  How can you make a well-reasoned, well-thought out decision when you don't have any facts?  So for that reason I'm sticking two fingers up at the Tory party and Tory party supporters (not me, I loathe everything they stand for) should be sending Cameron to the gallows.

Whilst we have career politicians, including those who enjoy the gravy train of the EU, the public are shut out of any constructive dialogue such as reformation of the EU.

To conclude, my Brexiteer stance IS NOT DUE TO RACISM BUT A PROTEST VOTE FOR THE SHAMBLES THAT PASSES AS POLITICS IN THE UK WHEREBY THE POPULATION ARE TREATED AS STUPID.

There used to be a thread about this not so long ago

Economics and Project Fear had little to do with the eventual outcome....If people had thought about economics, we would not be in this cesspit of decrepitude.-

😉

K

Indeed. Project Fear was a pack of lies, and without it a much higher percentage would have voted out

Big difference between out right lies of leave campaign and taking a approaching worse case scenario of a model on brexit. This is like saying the weather forecasters lie. They just predict to different confidence intervals. Brexit campaign just lied outright about facts.

Oh joy. Another thread on it.

my Brexiteer stance IS NOT DUE TO RACISM BUT A PROTEST VOTE FOR THE SHAMBLES THAT PASSES AS POLITICS IN THE UK WHEREBY THE POPULATION ARE TREATED AS STUPID

Unfortunately it was not a vote on the shambles of UK politics and I dont see how you can be pleased and think politics has just improved as a result
Essentially you accept you did not vote on the issue presented .

I’m sticking two fingers up at the Tory party

Bit late for that as they/we are here because of your vote

Brick is aso correct one side span the other said things they knew were completrey untrue and were never going to happe [ payment level and to the NHS for example - like the tories saying it cared about the NHS. Neither side was great bith were poor but Project unicorns for all beat project fear
There were no few winners and certainly facts and experts got a kicking by the masses.

Also interesting how few of the brexit camp want to defend their campaign[ jamby will be here from paris soon enough to defend it] and instead attack the "fear".

“Indeed. Project Fear was a pack of lies, and without it a much higher percentage would have voted out.”

Name one.  Actually, don't bother, we've done this on a 1000+ page thread and no-one could manage it then.  Pro tip: a failure to accurately predict the immediate future does not count, doubly so if you conveniently ignore Mark Carney finding £250bn down the back of the sofa immediately post-referendum so that the economy didn't completely implode.

And of course, the Leave campaign was a paragon of truth and virtue.  Really, if you're going to attack the Remain campaign, "you lied" is about the shakiest ground you could be standing on.  Draw up a list of Leave and Remain lies and one would be considerably longer than the other.  You'd be far better off arguing the benefits of leaving rather than finger-pointing.  Cos 18 months on I've still not seen a convincing reason for that either.

Schrödinger's immigrant - simultaneously steals your job whilst also doing nothing and claiming benefits

Oh joy. Another thread on it.

Yeah.  I don't expect this is going to last long.

yep, and we know what you did to that one, don't we?

The idea that the conservatives could settle 30 years of internal party arguing with a binary vote was insane, and I hope/trust Historians will treat Cameron accordingly. But; for better or worse we're on our way out, we need to make sure we get the best from this shambles. Thank God we've got a crack team who know what they're doing, lead by the finest minds who aren't swayed by internal party arguing, and finally this matter will be settled for good

(sarcasm and a glass of very nice red  may be present, treat accordingly)

my Brexiteer stance IS NOT DUE TO RACISM BUT A PROTEST VOTE FOR THE SHAMBLES THAT PASSES AS POLITICS IN THE UK WHEREBY THE POPULATION ARE TREATED AS STUPID.

Two things here.

1) Your protest vote is handing absolute power to the very people you're protesting against.

2) When it comes to having a working knowledge of complicated issues like politics, international trade, national and global economics etc etc, the people are stupid.  Or at least, ill-informed.  As you said yourself, "How can you make a well-reasoned, well-thought out decision when you don’t have any facts?"

.

Yet somehow you did, right?

Nice try.

No, I didn't.  Like everyone else, I voted for what I thought was the best thing at the time.  I was politically ignorant.  I know far, far more about our relationship with the EU now than I did 18 months ago.  I've done a lot of reading since that date, educating myself.

At the time of the referendum, I was as "stupid" as everyone else.  I wasn't qualified to vote on such a complex matter, the vast majority of the electorate wasn't.  If that weren't the case, we wouldn't need parliament.

curto80: possibly the most sensible post of 2018! (mind you it is only early Feb).

Personally I am a passionate remainer. Sure the EU means that we sign up to some collective rules (that set the gold standard globally) where we pay in but also have a big seat at the table setting said rules. But the two alternatives increasingly look like A: Pay 90% of the money, take 90% of the rule but have 0% in setting said rules. or B: a slightly edgy maverick state on the edge of the EU. Doing the bare mimumum to get some two way trade, but then becoming the low cost, low regulation pariah on the edge of the EU.

During the referendum Turkey were about to join the EU and 12 million had their bags packed ready to open kebab shops and claim benefits in the UK.

This is how my brother in law who was convinced of this managed to persuade my mum and sister to vote leave.

The whole thing is now an utter clusterfuss and nobody has a clue how to sort it out without financially screwing up the country.

One thing's for certain, we absolutely definitely need more brexit threads.

be interested to read the reports given to the Maybot on the russian involvement in the referendum by UK security services

IIRC a security officer was quoted on r4 "It would make your toes curl"

Junkyard - the Tory party were divided on the issue yet where were the other parties?  Did any of them call out the Tories?  I did not say that I was pleased and definitely do not think politics has improved as a result.  What it has done is prove the Tories are a bunch of incompetents who can not be trusted with running the country.

Cougar - no, I don't see that I've handed power to the Tories when they themselves couldn't agree on whether to stay or go.

The public should be given facts and these would have to be ratified, not sure by who though.  Sorry, that's a bit vague.  Really I just want to see a reformed, cheaper and trimmed EU but still with co-operation and some partnerships.

It concerns me very much that the UK ends up with many politicians from the same gene pool, a career spent in the civil service with no real world experience of the private sector or indeed anything else.  Just passing time until they receive a directorship of some City organisation.  The UK must surely be able to do better than that.

What all the "project fear", "Brexiteer lies" discussion misses is that both are about the same thing - an undefined interpretation of what Brexit actually might mean.  But the choice wasn't between a "bad" Brexit (project fear) and a "good" Brexit (all the benefits of leaving and all he benefits of staying.

The choice was actually between a known *where we are now" and a complete unknown for which Remain painted a bleak picture and for which Leave told everyone it was paved with gold.

The flavour of Brexit was never defined so any vote for Brexit was pure speculation based on the bits of conjecture you picked up that you think made sense and believed you were going to get.

So the big question is - if it turns out you aren't going to get from Brexit what you thought you voted for...is it still worth it?  Or do Brexiteers really mean the "leave means leave" thing in that any Brexit at any cost will do?

Cougar – no, I don’t see that I’ve handed power to the Tories when they themselves couldn’t agree on whether to stay or go.

Since the referendum they've done nothing but attempt to grab power and shut out the "opposition."  They want the power to pass laws without parliamentary decree.  Look at the court case straight after the referendum, or the talk of Henry VIII powers, for instance.  If we leave then the EU is just one less influence they'll have to take into consideration.  From what you've said here, this should scare you.  It scares the shit out of me.

The public should be given facts and these would have to be ratified, not sure by who though.  Sorry, that’s a bit vague.  Really I just want to see a reformed, cheaper and trimmed EU but still with co-operation and some partnerships.

Agreed.  And do you think we'll be in a better position to be able to effect change when we no longer have a seat at the table?

It concerns me very much that the UK ends up with many politicians from the same gene pool

It concerns me too.  Which is just one reason why being in the EU is a good thing, it tempers that.

The choice was actually between a known *where we are now” and a complete unknown for which Remain painted a bleak picture and for which Leave told everyone it was paved with gold.

Yup.  And plenty of people voted to leave because "where we are now" is a bit shit and the tabloids told them it was all the fault of foreigners.  The opposite of Leave should never have been Remain, it should have been Reform.

My analogy would be....

You go on holiday to Blackpool every year.  Some of the family are getting a bit bored of it so the family participates in a vote.

The family takes a vote for holidays to Remain in Blackpool or to Leave and go somewhere else.

The family knows all about Blackpool.  Some complain that costs have gone up and that the weather isn't as good as it's used to be - plus the Pleasure Beach was supposed to open a new roller coaster which has never materialised.

Uncle Boris leads the campaign for holidays to leave Blackpool.  He says going somewhere else will be cheaper and the family will be able to spend the money on a new TV instead.  Uncle Nigel says that holidays elsewhere will have better weather and that other destinations have already big rollercoasters.  Uncle Nigel also says that Blackpool is about to be invaded by hordes of foreign people who don't speak English and will take all the deckchairs so it'll be even worse if the family keep having holidays there.

The father of the family says that there are many benefits to holidaying in Blackpool.  Going somewhere else is a complete unknown and is unlikely to be cheaper.

So the family vote.

Jonny votes to leave because he wants better weather and is a bit sick of donkey rides on the beach.

Alison votes to leave because she was dead-set on a bigger roller coaster.

Billy votes to leave because he doesn't like the sound of foreigners taking over Blackpool.

Aunty Sue votes to leave because going somewhere else will be cheaper and she fancies a new TV.

The vote for leave wins.

And now the discussion on where to go on holiday begins.

So, IF it turns out that the new holiday destination is Skegness, which is pretty much the same as Blackpool only smaller and 3 hours drive further away, the members of the family that voted to remain in Blackpool might suggest that the vote was a bit pointless and that the reasons for leaving were lies.

Should Jonny, Alison, Billy and Auntie Sue start chanting "leave means leave", "the family have spoken", "what ever happened to democracy" etc?  Or should they actually be more bothered that they aren't getting the benefits they were promised from going somewhere else and decide to remain in Blackpool?

A few of my mate have lost jobs in the city. Their contracts were not renewed as the firms they were working for do not know what is going to happen in the next year. Each of them on 12 month contracts and in excess of 80Ka year.

Stay with what you know our jump into oblivion.

As an aside, I've lost over 40K due to Brexit's effect n the pound. Cheers!

If you look at how things have gone over the past two years regarding what the UK government has said it wants and what the EU has said it can have, then seen what the outcome has been, we're pretty much headed for EFTA.

You’d be far better off arguing the benefits of leaving rather than finger-pointing.

I doubt they would be. For all the shrieking I’m yet to see a single cogent argument for leaving. Not one that stands up to even the slightest scrutiny anyway. Witness exhibit A:

Really I just want to see a reformed, cheaper and trimmed EU but still with co-operation and some partnerships.

This is laudable, up until you realise that until the referendum result, the UK was one of the most powerful members of the bloc, and held the second most powerful position in the EC. Now we have little influence over anything the EU does, and when we actually leave we’ll have even less, with the bonus of still being bound by regulations we no longer have influence over if we wish to sell things to them.

Now I’ll accept that I too know a lot more about the EU since the referendum. But the concept that we’d have more power over something we’re influential members of than after we’d left isn’t one that should have escaped anyone.

Ultimately the government, and Tories in particular have used the EU as a scapegoat for their own failings for decades. That too is not a new piece of information.

Oh yay, another brexit thread.

Brexiters have lost the economic argument. You'd have thought they would have had a concrete plan mapped out in the years they have been agitating to leave the EU. The vote goes their way and...nothing.

And that's because they knew that the economy will be damaged by their actions. Most of the political arch brexiters will be well protected from the effects of brexit. This has only ever been about control. They called it sovereignty but its not, and their actions since the vote clearly indicate where this is going.

So first thing they attack the Judiciary, then you have them stating that the press should be "more patriotic", then came the Henry VIII laws bypassing Parliament, and now in the last few days an attack on the civil service. They have targeted the very things that are supposed to hold governments in check/to account.

To conclude, my Brexiteer stance IS NOT DUE TO RACISM BUT A PROTEST VOTE FOR THE SHAMBLES THAT PASSES AS POLITICS IN THE UK WHEREBY THE POPULATION ARE TREATED AS STUPID.

Unfortunately the plan to keep the majority pretty well uneducated is working. Blame the foreigners, blame the EU, blame everyone else for the woes of our own making. It was all too easy.

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px; background-color: #eeeeee;">Ultimately the government, and Tories in particular have used the EU as a scapegoat for their own failings for decades</span>

How dare you!!!!

This can't possibly be true, a decade of austerity, housing crisis, NHS crisis, record food bank use & homelessness are all obviously the fault of the EUSSR.

We should devote all government efforts & £billions  to leaving the world's largest free trade bloc regardless of the consequences and the sunlit uplands will be glorious.

Rule Britannia !!!

Oh yay, another brexit thread.

Not sure if trolling or just thick

It concerns me very much that the UK ends up with many politicians from the same gene pool, a career spent in the civil service with no real world experience of the private sector or indeed anything else.  Just passing time until they receive a directorship of some City organisation

Just for the record  civil servants aren't and in fact can't be politicians.

People voted in the EU referendum based on what politicans said???

I certainly didn't.

OP, the EU referendum campaign probably had no more or less lies than a normal general election, you wouldn't be calling for prosecution if 'your' party didn't win a general election, or would you?

Also, while I'm here, t<span style="font-size: 12.8px;">he hatred towards leave voters on some platforms is akin to the hate illustrated by racists.</span><span style="font-size: 12.8px;"> This is a sad state of affairs IMO. </span>

Oh, and yes I did vote to get rid of paying for yet another layer of men in suits in my life.

How many men in suits have been hired to get rid of men in suits?

"Not sure if trolling or just thick"

Or maybe making an observation, after all it IS another brexit thread, is it not?

Hooray for another brexit thread!

How’s that going for you gerti?

Actually, don’t bother answering: it’s bleedingly obvious.

What is Brexit?

Who cares if we have to hire 30,000 new men in suits to replace the men in suits in Brussels

At least they will be honest to god british civil servants, oh no wait,

civil servants are definitely enemies of the people

Rees-mogg can replace all of them he's incredibly smart on account of his superior breeding and the way he talks down to everyone, you just know he's always right !

now in the last few days an attack on the civil service

I'm reasonably convinced that this is laying the foundations for dismissing the recently leaked economic report saying we're gonna be screwed.  Oh that, yeah, pay no heed, it's just corrupt civil servants with an agenda.  Something something will of the people democracy brown people.

We're being governed by crooks and people should be going to jail over this.

Rees-mogg can replace all of them he’s incredibly smart on account of his superior breeding and the way he talks down to everyone, you just know he’s always right !

Yet, the "elite" are the enemy.

@zokes Is it? Do enlighten me.

@zippykona Apologies if you missed my toungue in cheek reference to general bureaucracy. In the long term there will be one less layer for my taxes to pay for.

Also, while I’m here, the hatred towards leave voters on some platforms is akin to the hate illustrated by racists. This is a sad state of affairs IMO.

Even if this anecdote has some fact behind it, the obvious mitigation is that leave voters are actually culpable for their choice, which they made of their own free will. They’re all above the age of majority, all responsible for their actions.

Racists on the other hand attack others over things that the victims have little or no control over, and these attacks are based upon prejudice with no factual grounding.

In the long term there will be one less layer for my taxes to pay for.

One less layer? Perhaps.

Less cost? You’re dreaming.

I still don't know what Brexit actually is? Can someone tell me what it will be like?

"We’re being governed by crooks and people should be going to jail over this."

Except It's nothing new Cougar, been going on all my lifetime.

I ****ing despise politicians, the lot of them.

@zokes If you bothered to understand, the point I was making was regarding levels of hate directed at others.

I still don’t know what Brexit actually is? Can someone tell me what it will be like?

No!  But we must have it, whatever it is.  The people have spoken!

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">@zokes, sorry I didn't realise you were Mystic Meg</span>

I still don’t know what Brexit actually is? Can someone tell me what it will be like?

The Gov have only had 19months, it's definitely Cameron/Corbyn/Remoaners fault that there's no plan whatsoever.

(That & the backstabbing civil servants unable to provide an impact assessment that accurately shows how wondrous Brexit will be!)

Just sing Jerusalem in your head and it'll be like that, only better

Corbyn is just as bad, idealism before people, whipping his people into propping up the Conservatives so he doesn't have to get off the fence and have a policy, to the detriment of all working class people, utter hypocrisy and utterly disgraceful.

Whilst I don't necessarily disagree, nor do I see the relevance to the discussion.

(And TBH, the entire discussion is mostly irrelevant to the OP's question anyway.)

Brexit was a way to get out of being europe's cuck. mass immigration of low skilled , low educated , non english speaking cultures being dumped in the uk for the free health and meal ticket. get a cheque every week and rent paid for, get that back problem cared for, which would never have been attended to from whence they came.Sound like a racist bigot? i can assure you i'm not at all, i'm just stating what the majority of the people see with their own eyes daily but like myself say or do nothing about it.  bit to clear coated for you all? btw i didn't vote .

Then there is the trade and business side of it. under the desk envelopes with tax breaks and wishful trade deals with a free industrial site if your company sets up and deals with the uk. But only on eu's terms.

i’m just stating what the majority of the people see with their own eyes daily

No, you're stating what the majority of people are told by the tabloid press daily.

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px;">Brexit was a way to get out of being europe’s cuck. mass immigration of low skilled , low educated , non english speaking cultures being dumped in the uk for the free health and meal ticket. get a cheque every week and rent paid for, get that back problem cared for, which would never have been attended to from whence they </span><span class="skimlinks-unlinked" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 16px; vertical-align: baseline; background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; color: #444444;">came.Sound</span><span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px;">like a racist bigot? </span>

You see that's the kind of ignorance that's led us into this mess!

Just as many immigrants from EU as non-eu, all of which bring more to the economy than take out.

EU migrants less likely to use NHS & claim benefits than brits

<span style="font-size: 12.8px;">Housing & nhs crisis are the legacy of decades of underfunding & recent austerity, fk all to do with the EU</span>

That's why impact assessments can't show benefits of Brexit, no matter how much Rees-mogg & co try & force it to

Rcmacattack all you are doing is blaming the EU for the failings of our own politicians in Westminster

I'll post my answer in the brexit thread. You know, the thread that should prevent all the remoaning whingers from having to create multiple brexit threads..

@zokes If you bothered to understand, the point I was making was regarding levels of hate directed at others.

Oh I understood perfectly well. I’m simply saying the people who couldn’t be bothered to research the implications of leaving but voted for it anyway have brought it upon themselves. Suck it up, buttercup. You’ll at least have the comfort of even at its worst it only being a fraction of the pain inflicted by racism, which coincidentally increased significantly since the vote.

i’m just stating what the majority of the people see with their own eyes daily

Only the majority of people who have the misfortune of reading the Daily Mail, Express, etc. And even then, they’re not seeing it, they’re just being duped into thinking they’re seeing it by an incompetent government that has managed to paint the EU and immigration as a convenient scapegoat.

I’ll post my answer in the brexit thread. You know, the thread that should prevent all the remoaning whingers from having to create multiple brexit threads..

I assume you’d push for there to only be one thread on bikes too?

Just as many immigrants from EU as non-eu

No, there are fewer EU immigrants, non-EU are the majority.  Though it's been relatively close of late.  Post-brexit this is a trend I expect to see reverse, we're going to be massively popular to non-EU migration.

EU migrants less likely to use NHS & claim benefits than brits

Yup.  And moreover, as a percentage there are more EU migrants working in the NHS than using it.  Fewer EU nationals in the UK equates to a bigger strain on the NHS.  If you lose 10% of doctors and nurses and 5% of patients*, what's going to happen to queues?

(* random figures for example purposes)

Rcmacattack all you are doing is blaming the EU for the failings of our own politicians in Westminster

Why bother even backing that up with facts? People like him aren't going to change their view no matter what you present. This:

.Sound like a racist bigot?

Is where they're at.

I’ll post my answer in the brexit thread. You know, the thread that should prevent all the remoaning whingers from having to create multiple brexit threads..

Why bother your "answer will only be as empty as your brexiters head's are.

" rmacattack

<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 16px;">mass immigration of low skilled , low educated , non english speaking cultures being dumped in the uk for the free health and meal ticket. get a cheque every week and rent paid for "</span>

Shut the hell up. Really.

Might come across as a personal attack but as you just attacked so many people based on utter junk ...

I know someone that works for local government/ social care for both British and non British people that desperately need help.

There is no magic "straight to the front of the queue" BS you talk of. IT DOES DOES NOT EXIST.

Increasingly she has to rely on charities to pick up the slack that a totally morally bankrupt government has left. For both British and non British citizens. The government doesn't give a fig for your nationality. If you need help you are a burden, nothing more.

Her department is starved of money and people seeking help are having to jump through ever more hoops.

Want to argue this, I'll get her to sign up and post if you wish?

Now go and spout your ignorant BS some where else.

Sorry guys, just such of hearing crap like this !

i’m just stating what the majority of the people see with their own eyes daily

Damn, those foreigners sound as bad as those pesky cyclists.  My favourite Brexiters live in Whiteville where 99.99% of people are Caucasian Brits who drive cars everwhere, yet in discussions they reliably inform me they  'see with their eyes daily' a 'massive increase in cycling', so much so that they have to wait behind cyclists who 'now need a whole 2 metres space, and ride 2 abreast'. Not only, but they tell me that cyclists customarily run people over onthe pavement and jump red lights.  In fact they no fear for walking because of this massive upsurge of cyclisting.  This is intolerable.  Along with the awful Eastern-Central-Southern European/Afro-****stani/Bulgaro-Muslim etc benefit-swindling job-stealing mafia on every street corner.  I suspect they saw an Albanian immigrant running a car wash once on their travels, but things like that stick in their minds, sharply reminding them that we didnt Churchill Dunkirk to smithereens just to now be taken for fools by those pisstaking dodgy foreign-types.  We didn't want peace in Europe, we simply wanted to protect our shores from Jerry.  And Janik.  And Jamal.  Brexit is the new WW2 Spirit.  Taking back what is ours.  Taking back what was stolen by Johnny Foreigner who made fools of us by coming over here in their billions and taking our money and stealing our jobs, raping our families, ruining our Health Service and refusing to work.  /sarcasm off.

You can read stories like theirs every day in the rags.  Everyone 'sees it with their own eyes'. Daily.  Except those of us who don't.  Maybe we don't see the 'cycling menace' because we are cyclists? Hmmm.. let me think...

Are people still saying "remoaners"? How long do we have to wait for them to grow up?