You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I have been considering an idea I wanted to share with you for some time, and have spoken with @molgrips to see if he agreed that it might be a good one. So because, when last we spoke, he did, and because the next few months seem to represent a real possibility in terms of my time, I have decided to present you with my idea to see where it goes.
Before I do, however, I have one request: because it necessitates me revealing a fair amount about who I am and what I do, whether or not you find the idea of interest, please allow me to keep participating in the forum in the way I always have. It's a good place, and a community I don't want to lose.
Anyway, here goes...
I am an Orthodox priest and an academic, and of late - beginning with the first lockdown - I have been doing quite a bit of online work in terms of teaching and presenting.
I have been a priest for twenty-five years in one capacity or another, and my academic specialism is in historical theology with a particular focus on the transmission of ideas in the seventh century.
In any case, over the years on this forum, we have spent a fair amount of time arguing and talking about Christianity specifically - and the idea of faith more generally - and I have wanted to take a lot of the points, arguments, and questions posed on here and turn them into an introductory book. NOT - to be clear - with a view to 'converting' anyone; just with a view to answering your legitimate questions and criticisms from a more thorough place than an internet forum normally represents. That has so far borne no fruit, as I have simply had too much on the go.
So, my idea is this:
If I organised an online 'pub night' exclusively for members of STW, to which you could bring your questions, challenges, comments, or arguments, and to which I would try to offer a constructive, interesting, affirming, or corrective response, would you be interested?
I figure critical mass would be about ten of you. Any fewer, and I may not run with it.
Please note: I would hope to upload any resulting video to YouTube.
If you could please click on the linked survey, and let me know your thoughts on a possible event, it would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance.
Precisely the sort of thoughtful, scholarly remark I was hoping for.
That's pretty offensive @twinw4ll. A kind and generous offer has been made to users and yet you see fit to sneer.
Shocked, but in a good way, to find out you’re a priest. Sounds like a nice idea and I honestly don’t see how it could affect your participation in this forum. It’s a very divisive subject and I hope you get calm and collected people to participate.
I’m now just seeing you as Father Jack in my head.
SaxonRider – I've always really enjoyed your contributions to the forum and it doesn't surprise me at all that you have such an interesting background. It sounds like a great idea – hope it is successful for you.
I honestly don’t see how it could affect your participation in this forum.
Was my first thought, also followed by the surprise job revalation.
I'm just not fired up by religion, for or against enough to join in, but I probably would be interested in whatever the output was, because of the characters you'll hopefully get joining in. Excited for you, I hope it happens.
Where's the potential admission fee proceeds going?
I mean, if it's "SaxonRider's C&H pizza fund" then that's fine, but I think I'd quite like to know first.
I used to be a member of a christian fellowship(pathfinders) kind of thing as a boy with my best mate. Since grown up to realise I'm no Christian but i feel everyone has their beliefs and im fine with that. Therefore, i am open to your suggestion Saxonrider. Count me in...if i can
I've always been envious of people who believe in a 'higher power' being their reference point for what is going well, or poorly in their world. More so since the multiple suicide attempts of someone I love dearly since Christmas.
I'd love to take part but fear I'd be far too inarticulate to contribute effectively. Much happier being a fly of the, erm, camera? But would love to watch the results on YouTube.
Good luck Saxonrider
I had a suspicion you were a man of the cloth, but Orthodox comes as a surprise, can't be many of them in Wales. Greek or Russian?
@IHN: Russian. There is a Greek parish, two Russian, and one Romanian parish here in Cardiff. Also a few Syrian/Indian and Ethiopian/Eritrean communities.
@Cougar: simple answer? SaxonRider’s pizza fund. More complex answer? I run a parish, serve as chaplain at the university, am a research fellow there, and teach a lot, and don’t earn money for any of it, so teaching online and getting Patreon subscribers is my only income. That said, I do what I do anyway, whether I get paid or not. Which is why I put down a few options.
I figure this could be worth it, whether or not people pay.
I think a good proposal would also be to see if people on STW can grow a sense of humour.
I'm sure SaxonRider has to deal with stuff like that first post all the time and I'm pretty sure he's OK with it. I imagine a slight raise of the eyebrows and a slight chuckle would be at the top end of the scale.
I'll pass on the offer, thanks, but fully accept that it is an important part of someone else's life and should be respected as such. A little bit of light ribbing is not disrespecting it. Second hand outrage really isn't needed.
Best of luck with the idea. It can't do any harm.
no surprise , and your contributions on the religion threads have always been helpful and very well thought out. It's a hugely difficult topic online so it might work, good luck
don’t earn money for any of it,
That is what surprises me!! The univeristy doesn'y pay you??
I'd be interested. I'm a devout scientist and parts of religion make no sense to me.
Then again - things in science and nature make no sense either, and I can't rationalise why I'm prepared to sit and listen to scientists and naturalists (I think that's right, although I'd listen to naturists too) and let them try to explain things I don't understand to me but I'm suspicious of religionists because they might help to make sense of it and then I'd be forced to confront my rejection of religion.
As LeeW; there are times too where I wish there was a higher power I believed in and could burden or blame with all the shit things that happen. It's God's will doesn't make sense to me (I mean, what reasonable plan does God have that involves childhood cancer??) but it would solve a lot of problems for me.
Only problem is I'm 200 miles from Cardiff
I knew you were a theological scholar. Didn't know you were a priest though.
I'd very much like to take part in the discussion, sounds very interesting.
That is what surprises me!! The univeristy doesn’y pay you??
Not a penny! 😁
I was appointed an honorary (non-stipendiary) basis, and because I was working in another institution for many years, I never needed to be paid. I haven’t been with that other institution for a few years now, so a bump up the scale somewhere would be nice!
But to be fair, I love what I do and I love my research, so I would do it anyway.
A kind and generous offer has been made to users and yet you see fit to sneer.
You’ve reminded me of something from my childhood. I went to a CofE primary school and when the old vicar retired he came into the school to say goodbye at morning assembly. At the end of his farewell speech he told us all that he had a gift for us. We weren’t expecting anything great, would it be a bible or a book of religious songs? No, the tight old git gave us a blessing 🤣 We were all about as grateful as twinw4ll up there
I thought people on here knew what he did 🙂
I’m a devout scientist and parts of religion make no sense to me.
Me too.. but I guess it depends what area of science.
I'd strongly encourage the curious scientists to join in because the OP is really good at this kind of thing and knowing the historical side of things is a brilliant way to explore what faith actually means*. All the counterpoints you can come up with have already been raised in the past and been written about.
As a physics graduate I am as unable on a fundamental level to disprove the existence of some kind of God as the OP is able to prove it. And that's ok with me. Discussing why this is the case is fascinating.
* hint - it covers a lot of things besides the creation of the world.
I haven’t been with that other institution for a few years now, so a bump up the scale somewhere would be nice!
Have you asked them?!
I’d love to take part but fear I’d be far too inarticulate to contribute effectively.
You could formulate questions before hand and submit them I suppose, Question Time style. Maybe that's a good idea? It sounds like your questions would be welcome.
Only problem is I’m 200 miles from Cardiff
It says it's online in the OP.
In no way am I religious but don't look down on those that are.
Secondary school was very religious and would be in the minster every end of term.
That said the kindest thing I have ever received was a work colleague saying she prayed for my son as he was very ill in hospital (heart surgery at 10 months).
At the time she was terminal with the big C and i reflect on this quite a lot (someone should dust this bloody room).
Religion can be thankless and horrifying, it's all in the application.
I'm in, if you'll have me. 🙂
As an atheist and rationalist, I find Theology fascinating.
Ah yes. I missed online and spotted 'pub night' only
I was brought up a Christian (Methodism) but turned away mainly because of several decades of severe mental health issues with a rather pervasive satanic element.
I've always been hugely interested in theology and also how science and theology might not be mutually exclusive, though I'm no academic. I'm very open minded around possibilities (for and against) although I tend to rail against powerful organised religion (Catholic Church etc.). I've a sneaky suspicion that if I were to suddenly find a faith I'd be looking at Gnosticism.
I think you have a great idea there and wish you all the best. I couldn't get to you for a pub night but I'd be happy to contribute to any threads here.
As an atheist I have absolutely no interest in this idea.
Go for it. It’s not something that interest me but there are a good few on here that it will.
I’m a devout scientist
So were Gregor Mendel and Georges Lemaitre 😉
Crack on I reckon
Normally wed all "know" how a religion thread will pan out. I've no idea with this one.
Hi @SaxonRider - very rare poster here, but this sounds like something for which I'm happy to stick my head above the parapet! I teach A-level Politics and History, including topics on the Religious Right in American Politics and the Tudor Reformation in 16th Century England. I've also taught the Crusades and the French Wars of Religion. I'm interested in being involved in your round-table, if you have space.
@saxonrider, your name makes much more sense now. Love the 7th century too with a particular love for the Byzantium empire.
Having been brought up a Christian (Church of England) I'm afraid Im also atheist. Tend to believe in the ancient aliens theory now but I guess it all depends on the definition of a god. I'm sure if I went back in time 10000 years with some of today's tech they would think I was a god.
As a follower of history, my belief is the word of God was currupted by the greed of man to serve them and what ever grand Church they were building or war they were fighting and as such its fatally flawed. I'd love to take a peak in the Vatican vaults and find out all their secrets.
Good luck
So were Gregor Mendel and Georges Lemaitre
Yep. When far smarter people than me can rationalise 'both sides' of the argument I have to be alive to the possibility it's me that's wrong.
Interesting to read you're a Priest. I'm not religious myself, though were i to attend such an event you might find me somewhat argumentative, mainly due to the history of the church and it's quest for power, Treatment of parishioners in Ireland
That said, we've a number of priests in the family, including a Monsignor. My uncle on my Fathers side worked for SVDP Ruchazie in Glasgow.
.
Not my thing though, but I wish you every success in your endeavour though.
I've now got you pictured as wearing a multi patterned jumper, sporting a beard and playing a 12 stringed guitar.
Am I right on any of those aspects. 😆
I'm in.
I've moved from Roman Catholic to Agnostic to Atheist. I love religious architecture, I hate the way that religion has been used by the powerful as an instrument of oppression. I love the good that the non-conformist movement and Quakers did. I'm sure that there are good examples in other religions too.
One of the things I didn't understand as a kid was why CoE people hated Catholics. Having been to services and Sunday school for RC, CoE and Methodist they're so similar.
Hmm...
I'm not at all religious and find those who are quite odd, but it's always interesting hearing them try to justify their point of view, and occasionally they do say something which makes me think.
I'm quite interested in the angle of 'why some people believe certain things' but this may not quite be what the OP is looking for? Not sure I can contribute anything useful but would be interested to watch the resulting youtube thing.
I'm a confirmed atheist, but I recognise some elements of faith in my own beliefs. I would like to take part but I work in the evening a lot.
I’ve always been hugely interested in theology and also how science and theology might not be mutually exclusive
They definitely aren't. The obvious route is the watchmaker analogy, in which God kicks off a universe with a bunch of laws, and then everything we see follows from that. All of science is still perfectly valid in that hypothesis because how couldn't it be? And these aren't new ideas, Isaac Newton talked about it. The ideas of biblical inerrancy and creationism were not always taken seriously in the past, despite what modern atheists would have you think.
@andrewh and anyone else wondering if they'd be welcome:
Yes is the answer. I am not looking for any 'type' of person, or questions, or people who are especially 'open' or 'closed' to faith and religious ideas; just people who like engaging with ideas full stop. And as far as I can tell, that includes most of the people on here.
I'm open to the idea, it definitely sounds interesting. As I mentioned when I replied to the survey I'm a bit concerned that it could just turn into a atheists-vs-you squabble, which would be pretty crap. I like the idea of it being an open discussion, but you definitely need to set some rules to keep it interesting.
That reminds me i also need to discuss the healing power of crystals with someone.
As an atheist I have absolutely no interest in this idea
I do wonder if we should all start asking ourselves “am I contributing positively here”
OP. Thank you for posting. It’s not for me, I’m not even sure I understand what you’re asking but that’s my failing, not yours.
That said, I’d be interested in you updating this thread with any thoughts or findings once you done your session.
Just to say - in another thread there is a claim that this forum has become less tolerant. It's oft repeated. However, any thread on religion would once include the words "sky fairies" around the third or fourth post. That is no longer always the case.
As for SRs offer, not for me. If there is a Buddhist with the same idea, I'd be more tempted
One of the things I didn’t understand as a kid was why CoE people hated Catholics.
CofE covers a multitude of sins (pun intended). High church is very close to Catholic (Henry VIII only disagreement was around being allowed to divorce and if it hadnt been for the pope being an effective prisoner of Charles V, the nephew of Catherine, he would have probably got away with it, Funfact the monarchs title defender of the faith was originally given by the pope to Henry but after for some reason the pope decided he no longer deserved it parliament gave it again since he was upset about losing it) but other sections arent. I suspect though it would be various other protestant sects which you are thinking of since even the most extreme C of E sects arent overly.
simple answer? SaxonRider’s pizza fund. More complex answer?
I'm happy with that. I'm in, subject to when.
You didn't solicit usernames in the form, was that intentional?
I've known your profession for years though I'm not sure why. Russian orthodox is a surprise though, I hope you're not of the warmongering type like at least one of your colleagues who's been in the news recently.
I'm a geologist and not too fond of organised religion even if I'm very accepting of people's personal faith. If people have faith in something I can't prove to be nonsense who am I to argue. Religious texts are open to interpretation, take them too literally and they are difficult to defend, take them in the context they were written and they become meaningful and useful.
In terms of the Bible the Greek texts provide a reasonable code to live by. Levetique, Moses and stuff is what I see as the worst of human instinct and predjudice in print.
Madmame is more into it than me, I certainly don't feel the need for a church or any other place of worship, the night sky is as close as I'll get. However, I love going on pilgrimages with her and when you have to choose the type of certificate you want when you get to the end I always opt for the "spiritual" one. I reckon I probably hold the STW record for the number of places of worship visited, even if you are a priest, Saxonrider. 🙂
You didn’t solicit usernames in the form, was that intentional?
Yes. The survey I have posted here is really just a 'market survey' to see if it'll be worthwhile. By the looks of it, I'll be able to create an Eventbrite event in the next day or two, and get people to sign up properly then.
Ah yes. I missed online and spotted ‘pub night’ only
Easy mistake to make.
Not at all surprised by the OPs "revelation", the calm and insightful input on religious threads, and offers of help to me in the past.
Not sure I'd be a huge help in the discussion, but sounds a really interesting project.
it could just turn into a atheists-vs-you squabble
One would hope that someone who does this professionally would be well prepared for such an eventuality. (-:
I have a million questions and challenges for you, but have absolutely no intention of meeting up and being filmed.
Am very interested in a priests take on why , when religious people talk of their god, its a god of love, equality, and peace, when all around I see the exact opposite.
Am also intrigued because the majority of truly religious people appear selfless and well intentioned, almost to a fault.
Feel free to PM if you want, I would be happy to help you with your research, if you feel you want it.
I am a Buddhist but I have no problem listening to or trying to understand all other religions.
For the moment I have one more puzzle to solve in life then perhaps I shall have time for other teachings.
Orthodox is much more interesting IMO.
One would hope that someone who does this professionally would be well prepared for such an eventuality.
Yeah, but just listening to someone trying to score "points" by repeating Dawkins arguments verbatim would be very dull. I'm quite interested in why some people believe in a god, why the Orthodox Church instead of (say) the Baptists, etc. I love reading about history, and like it or not Christian belief is an important part of European history.
Orthodox is much more interesting IMO.
Nah, wrist spin has all the magic - googly, flipper etc.
Nah, wrist spin has all the magic – googly, flipper etc.
LOL ...
Seriously, the interpretation of all religious teaching is not that simple to be honest.
I’m quite interested in why some people believe in a god, why the Orthodox Church instead of (say) the Baptists, etc. I love reading about history, and like it or not Christian belief is an important part of European history.
I like all of them but learning them also requires skills.
Despite my trite posts, I am actually quite interested in religion, as an external observer, though.
I've done a bit of listening, reading etc about Sunni vs Shia Islam, Coptic Christianity, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism etc.
I do think it is important to understand the 'textbook' definition of, for example Sunni vs Shia, but also more important to understand how and why those differences have been used and exacerbated by political actors.
I don't know anything about Orthodox Christianity, though. Being glib again, the only thing I see is a tall ascetic looking guy with a massive beard waving a smoky metal thing around...
Damn it, I'm getting curious now, because my own ignorance is annoying me!
when religious people talk of their god, its a god of love, equality, and peace,
or fire and brimstone depending on which bit of their tome they're quoting.
Edit: Othodox is a slightly different translation of the Old Testament which is why I used "Greek texts" in my last post but didn't say "Hebrew texts" because in the Orthodox Bible they aren't.
However, any thread on religion would once include the words “sky fairies” around the third or fourth post. That is no longer always the case.
I don't know. If SaxonRider had announced he was a Scientologist, Mormon, or Jehova's Witness and invited everyone for a chat I imagine there wouldn't be the same level of tolerance.
I do wonder why some religions are considered worthy of respect while others aren't and are generally ridiculed. As far as I can see all religions are grounded in reality to the exact same extent and should be ridiculed equally.
I do think it is important to understand the ‘textbook’ definition of, for example Sunni vs Shia, ...
In Islam the dispute between Sunni vs Shia is the bloodline (need to follow definition of Koran and different interpretation resulted in the split). There are many "textbooks" but understanding the holy Koran is the best for consistency if in doubt. The rest of the information source is merely just source.
I don’t know anything about Orthodox Christianity, ...
With my limited knowledge and relying on the interpretation of some religious scholars, most Orthodox religions have rather similar teachings.
Scientologist, Mormon, or Jehova’s Witness
Those three are very different. In France Scientology is a "secte dangereuse" and banned as such. The other two are churches. I worked for the Mormons on their computer data bases, they get donated phenomenal amounts of money even in the UK, I got the feeling of a cross between the free masons and a religion (pun intended). Jehova's witnesses I've worked with and invite in for tea when they call, "harmless".
Well, I'm definitely going to seek out a 'Beyond Belief' episode on orthodox Christianity now my interest has been piqued.
it could just turn into a atheists-vs-you squabble
I offered to act as a moderator.
I do wonder why some religions are considered worthy of respect while others aren’t and are generally ridiculed.
Then come along and ask the question 🙂
Personally, I believe people are worthy of respect. Some of the things they do are not, however.
I do wonder why some religions are considered worthy of respect while others aren’t and are generally ridiculed
Some were founded for the purpose of making money...
I’d be interested, I’m very much an atheist, but studied Anthropology (a loong time ago) so always had an interest in what makes people ‘tick’!
Would we be submitting questions/ thoughts etc beforehand?
Jehova’s witnesses I’ve worked with and invite in for tea when they call, “harmless”.
In your opinion. In others not so much. The witnesses in particular are possibly what the Scientologists will turn into once they have a few more years under their belt and get proper multi generational devotees.
The mormons have their own set of issues but not as severe as the other two.
As someone who is beyond an atheist (a sort of heathen i guess) i am still interested in what voukd be easily described as the worlds ultimate "long con"
I have a Mormon acquaintance (unless you're in the club you're not really a friend) and have had multiple discussions around religion, Mormonism and other stuff.
In conclusion he and his church are a cult. So its a no from me.
The witnesses in particular are possibly what the Scientologists will turn into once they have a few more years under their belt and get proper multi generational devotees.
The witnesses use pretty much the same Bible as any other Christian religion as the basis for their belief system, that is simply not comparable with the ramblings of Ron Hubbard.
What pisses people off about the Witnesses is that they go out and do what they're supposed to: spread the word. If you know your way around the Bible you can have Mormons tearing their hair out in half an hour (and thrown out the country within a couple of weeks, he and his colleagues perhaps shouldn't have been so adamant they were right on a point of law), the witnesses require more persistance because their lifestyle often conforms pretty well to the Biblical model and for society in general that's not a bad thing.
No offence. All religon is cult based fantasy. Religon is devisive and exclusive, things which in other areas are considered negative and bad. Sensible discussion based on facts (i know thats relative) and tolerance is the only answer to humanities problems. The church of "?" only helps it's own. And tolerance means im happy for you to believe what you want..
However, any thread on religion would once include the words “sky fairies” around the third or fourth post. That is no longer always the case.
Yup, I remember the shocking intolerance towards religion on here and the almost daily rantings on those religion mega-threads. Now these days that intolerance appears to have been redirected towards those with incorrect political views.
There were a couple of stwers who undoubtedly helped to develop greater tolerance and understanding of religion by their remarkable patience, good humour, and willingness to engage and explain.
I can't remember either of their names but one of them was a Baptist minister and the other one a practicing Muslim. The other notable person was of course SaxonRider.
What pisses people off about the Witnesses is that they go out and do what they’re supposed to: spread the word.
Nope its how they treat those who leave the church which, incidentally, isnt dissimilar to the scientologists and various other sects.
On the ramblings issue I do sorta feel sorry for the mormons. Joseph Smith used some ancient papyrus to support his claims confident, not unreasonably, in the knowledge nobody could read hieroglyphs without knowing that in Europe using the Rosetta stone scholars had managed to start understanding it and soon would prove him wrong.
Would we be submitting questions/ thoughts etc beforehand?
Might be a good way of stopping it being a bun fight?
All religon is cult based fantasy
I don't think theology and religion are the same thing. In fact you are doing theology right now 🙂
In Islam the dispute between Sunni vs Shia is the bloodline
Bloodline vs non-bloodline AFAIK. Which means it was essentially a political split from the start. Makes you think.
No offence. All religon is cult based fantasy. Religon is devisive and exclusive, things which in other areas are considered negative and bad. Sensible discussion based on facts (i know thats relative) and tolerance is the only answer to humanities problems. The church of “?” only helps it’s own. And tolerance means im happy for you to believe what you want..
No offence taken, but I have sought to treat precisely such objections in past threads, and it’s why I thought some kind of friendly, beer-based session online would be a good forum for discussion. Trying to deal with everything that could be said while typing with my thumbs on an iPhone just doesn’t feel adequate!
@molgrips. no offence but even the idea that those 2 distinct terms are entertained in the context of things is absurd. each to their own
I wonder if SR is regretting this already yet?
I have a million questions and challenges for you, but have absolutely no intention of meeting up and being filmed.
This might actually raise a good point. It may be prudent to establish ground rules - whilst I think my atheist views are well documented, I don't really want to be party to a 15-to-1 kicking.
Some were founded for the purpose of making money
some....
I do wonder why some religions are considered worthy of respect while others aren’t and are generally ridiculed.
That's funny.
In the last religious discussion on STW I remember - and indeed, most of them - the narrative was that Christianity was the one religion which was still fair game for a dressing-down. I remember comments like "you wouldn't do this with Islam." Fact was, we had more Christians to discuss with than Muslims.
Now seemingly we've gone 180' and it's the only religion that is worthy of respect.
As far as I can see all religions are grounded in reality to the exact same extent and should be ridiculed equally.
Yeah, no, because it's a spectrum. In terms of belief in the ephemeral / spiritual / supernatural / call it what you will, at one end we have Santa Claus and the tooth fairy, at the other we have Branch Davidians and Westboro Baptists. These do not have equivalence.
Again, atheist, so I think it's all man-made stories. But some belief systems are way more deserving of scorn than others.
Firstly no idea at all and I can't see how it would effect your use if the forum at all.
I love the idea of religious beliefs. I'm CE but not properly. I like the idea of support it gives people but am also very wary of the abuse it allows people to get away with.
I am generally ignorant of others faiths although I do find it interesting.
I was genuinely interested and clicked the link to register my thoughts. Saw it was suggesting that it's done for money and immediately thought scam and religion being used for financial gain. This makes me feal very uneasy about it all now and I'm out.
I am a Buddhist but I have no problem listening to or trying to understand all other religions.
For the moment I have one more puzzle to solve in life then perhaps I shall have time for other teachings.
You should definitely sign up for this @chewkw it's one evening online, not a theology degree. I think you'd have a lot to offer the conversation.
I was genuinely interested and clicked the link to register my thoughts. Saw it was suggesting that it’s done for money and immediately thought scam and religion being used for financial gain. This makes me feal very uneasy about it all now and I’m out.
I queried this earlier, you should probably read the first page. I don't think SR is going to be retiring to the Bahamas on £20.
I’m quite interested in why some people believe in a god, why the Orthodox Church instead of (say) the Baptists, etc.
I do wonder why some religions are considered worthy of respect while others aren’t and are generally ridiculed.
If we are doing the questions in advance thing this is an area I would like to explore more.
Why do people who belive in god(s) pick their particular faith? How much of it is cultural influence and what they have grown up with and how much of it is looking at all the belief systems, or even working it out from first principles or having a revelation, and deciding that theirs is most likely to be the 'correct' interpretation of what God is?
Religious people all seem pretty convinced that theirs is right, but no doubt those who believed in Odin or Zeus or Ra or whatever were equally convinced but would now be though of as very odd, why are modern religions considered less weird?
.
I’ve just clicked on the link. As it’s £2 per session, plus potentially more, is this commercial advertising? Can builders, bike mechanics or therapists do the same as a pretence of “involving the STW community? Does it break any forum rules?
Really interested in, and think a fair bit about, this stuff (on a purely personal rather than academic level though). Most people who have discussed this with me would probably describe me as quite a hardcore atheist/humanist as I can be quite blunt in expressing my beliefs (and yes, I'm one of those irritating atheists who insist their's is as much a belief system as anyone's who is religious).
In reality, I'm more aligned with being a godless Taoist than anything else but wouldn't necessarily describe myself as such as that might come off as hypocritical given what I'm about to type. I do think spirituality, faith and belief (of whatever flavour you choose) can be pretty central to being an effective human, but religion can absolutely get in the sea.
The idea of this discussion intrigues me, but [1] any contribution I could make would be based purely on personal experience and opinion (and admittedly very selective reading), and [2] the talk of payment (however tokenistic) doesn't quite sit right.
Saw it was suggesting that it’s done for money and immediately thought scam and religion being used for financial gain. This makes me feal very uneasy about it all now and I’m out.
As it’s £2 per session, plus potentially more, is this commercial advertising?
Thanks to @Cougar for the vote confidence above, but it seems I need to reiterate what I have said elsewhere in the thread: I will be/would be doing this anyway. Money or no money. That link was a poll to see what would garner the most positive response. If 100% of respondents said they wouldn't attend unless it was free, then it would be free. My first interest is in conversation.
That said, there are medical doctors on this forum who kindly give advice when we ask, and when we have had historical/religious discussions on here, I have tried to share things that I know about. If one of those medical doctors ran some kind of online teaching session for us online or in person, would it be unreasonable to ask for a pound or two towards expenses? It would depend, wouldn't it? I mean, if they were only doing their NHS duty, then we might expect them to get paid by some other source; but if they did it just because they had a group of internet friends/colleagues whom they thought might be interested, then maybe a pound or two wouldn't be so unreasonable. So I happen to have an expertise. Even if a person has no religious interest, they might at least appreciate the historical expertise I bring to the table. In which case, is it unreasonable to seek a couple of quid by way of remuneration? If so, let me know by responding with one of the options I included in the survey.
Scam? Good grief. I've never scammed anyone in my life.
EDIT: Just saw @colournoise's post, above. Again, I teach online. I write books. Sometimes I get paid; sometimes I don't. If most people seem happy throwing in a couple of quid, I'll go with that, and be glad that I can put it toward my next mortgage payment. All £20 of it. If not, I'll still run the session, and thoroughly enjoy it. I can't believe that this is being seen as an issue! But I guess it's a learning process for me.