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So, it's in the news that the Duke Of Westminster has died, leaving his £9bn estate to the new 20-odd year old Duke.
Now, the estate owns much of Belgravia and Mayfair in That London, which is undoubtedly pretty expensive property-wise, so if you were to sell a chunk of it, you'd make a good chunk of cash.
Presumably though, the estate doesn't own all the property on that land, just the land itself, so the value to the estate is not in the land value (cos they can't really sell it for development, as it's already got other people's properties on it), it's rather from an income from ground rent or similar? If that's the case, is the ground rent really that lucrative?
That's it really.
Oh, and it would be nice to get an answer before the thread descends into an argument about the moneyed elite...
Stoner to the forum please
Good shout. Stoner'll be able to the point you in the right direction.......on the other hand, maybe not. 😉
I think it's a mix of land and property that they own
when asked how to get wealthy he allegedly replied "make sure that one of your ancestors was besties with William the Conqueror"
There is quite a mixture of assets, they own assets all over the world. Belgravia and Mayfair still generate income but the lease enfranchisement has significantly reduced their control over these portfolios.
[I]Belgravia and Mayfair still generate income but the lease enfranchisement has significantly reduced their control over these portfolios. [/I]
And again in English, for the hard of thinking?
There is quite a mixture of assets, they own assets all over the world
Just like Stoner then 😉
<<<Stoner is out of the office until 1st January 2002. If your post requires an urgent response, please contact his assistant on substitutestoner@venalcapitalistsrus.com >>>
I have it on good authority that even peppercorn* rents pay well if you own enough of them.
* You don't get rich off the peppercorns; it's the extending the leases that pays out.
However pepper prices going mental in sainsbury's; maybe they should start actually collecting pepper?!
Grosvenor are a dab hand at not falling into the enfranchisement machinery if they can help it.
Grosvenor do receive massive amounts of ground rent. Ground rent is valued of very high multiples anywhere between 2% & 3% I. E. 30-50x income. (this is due to the value of the right of forfeiture, but don't need to go into it here)
Ground rent isn't just a few hundred quid a flat, it can be upto 15% or even 20% of the occupational rent, which in Mayfair can be well over £1000/m2 (£100psf for us oldies) for offices. Though more often around 5%.
Grosvenor retain the development rights on their land through the headleases, meaning If a building owner (lessee) wants to redevelop for higher value, the price of permission can be quite high.
Arguably it is a very valuable Estate precisely because of the Grosvenor family, not in spite of it. They "curate" Mayfair making it exclusive, timeless, stable and attractive for v high value occupiers.
Here's a crude sum :
Total office stock in Mayfair is somewhere between 1m and 1.5m m2, and the average value m2 is £30000,the gross asset value of all the office buildings in that area is £37,500,000,000
Add to that, c. 5000 residences averaging, say, 200m2 each, and £30000/m2 value, that's another £30bn.
And I'm probably substantially underestimating.
How much is the inheritance tax due to us all?
[quote=jimdubleyou ]How much is the inheritance tax due to us all?
£2.50 and a great big **** you I'd imagine.
Near as dammit naff all I should think. You'd need your head checking if something as big as the grosvenor Estate wasnt in trust up to the hilt.
The Grosvenor Estate is a trust or trusts, I think, they describe the board as a Board of Trustees.
EDIT: Discretionary trust pay a 10 yearly IHT charge.
Thank you I have been genuinely educated by this thread, I suggest we have more of this and less political angst.... tax dodging Tory scumbags - sorry it's like tourettes
more of this
Is that a request for more old wealthy biffers to kick the can?
A big thing for Gerald when spending money was the legacy element, money not being spent on self but for future generations. The quarter million that was recently spent on some gates was to improve the estate for all.
Hugh seems like a nice lad too.
A big thing for Gerald when spending money was the legacy element, money not being spent on self but for future generations
Easy now, we'll have none of that commusocialist pinko talk in here!
Duke of Westminster is a Norman baron - Tory heavy weight
Easy now, we'll have none of that commusocialist pinko talk in here!
In fairness to Gerald he did muck in with the local TA and spend 1 day a week working with folks on their allotments. Daughter went to the same school as John Barnes's kids, so not averse to rubbing shoulders with riff-raff.
captainsasquatch - Member
...Hugh seems like a nice lad too.
Of course he's a nice lad.
The gilded aristocracy employ commoners to do the un-nice stuff for them so they don't have to get their hands sullied.
IHT is evaded due to the trust arrangement as detailed in the press. Disgusting IMO. "Normal" rich people with a milion pounds of unearned property windfall have to pay, why should royalty and near-royalty be given a free pass.
Grosvenor Group paid £58m in tax last year as well as the revenue from all its employees.