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Before I start I should point out that I have always lived in a rural area with farms all around me, my grandad was a farmer and I hold no grudge against farmers in particular, but....
The state of the roads immediately outside a number of farm entrances near here is truly shocking.
The massive potholes are caused by the huge tractors the farmers now use to pull equally massive trailers.
It's not surprising that the sides of the road break up when these huge vehicles have to run down the verge in order to not get vehicles coming the other way.
That's obviously causes problems for everyone and yet the council have to pick up the tab for repairing these roads while the farmers pay nothing towards their upkeep.
That seems completely wrong to me.
Ok, I'm expecting a reenactment of Downfall here by page 4.
I predict a fawning “custodians of the land” post on the first page somehow directly leading to said downfall reenactment.
I would hope that the damage is more than made up in council tax or business rates, but I've no idea how much those cost for a farmer.
Bloody farmers, coming over here and taking our.. oh no, wait - wrong demographic/thread, as you were.
Mind you, I have the same complaint about housing developments. Wagons covered in mud chucking it off their massive wheels for half a mile in either direction of the site entrance.
farmers don't pay rates, and may have discounted council tax, so not much!!but I’ve no idea how much those cost for a farmer.
Heaven forbid you go near anywhere with HGV's!
Quite a bit of the damage can be caused by silage effluent runoff, if this is the case it needs to be reported to the council.
Except for the taxes shitload of subsidies they rake in pay.
FIFY
I remember bringing this word for word a few years ago and all I got was they are custodians of the countryside, keep us in cornflakes ,crisps ,only make 1/2p each pint of milk
Well any farmers I know in the East of Scotland look like they're doing well enough with all the massive new vehicles for fields and roads, the new houses that have 6 bedrooms 4 bathrooms etc but go through planning as an essential farm labourers house
They chew up the verges and never slow down pulling their massive trailers at full pelt
back in my youth working on one of the local farms we were "encouraged" churn up byways and some bridleways as much as possible with tractors to quote "keep the riff-raff out".
Well any farmers I know in the East of Scotland look like they’re doing well enough with all the massive new vehicles for fields and roads, the new houses that have 6 bedrooms 4 bathrooms etc but go through planning as an essential farm labourers house
My mums side of the family were farmers around the east of Scotland for around a century, and they were basically put out of business in the last generation, as it's not worth carrying on the lease anymore, there's a huge difference between landowners and farmers these days, they don't all live in mansions and earn a fortune without opening the door.
That’s obviously causes problems for everyone and yet the council have to pick up the tab for repairing these roads while the farmers pay nothing towards their upkeep.
Is this the "you don't pay road tax" argument? Does this fallacy really need explaining on a cycling forum of all places?
Upkeep of the roads comes out of general taxation, road tax hasn't existed for 87 years. Unless you're going to argue that farmers are universally a set of tax dodgers, they pay as much towards the upkeep of roads as you and the rest of us do.
Did you hear about the magic tractor?
It turned into a field.
while the farmers pay nothing towards their upkeep.
Already been said, but they pay taxes and council tax to pay for the roads the same as you.
Agricultural land doesn’t attract business rates, but non agricultural use does, so diversification comes at a price.
Is this the “you don’t pay road tax” argument? Does this fallacy really need explaining on a cycling forum of all places?
Upkeep of the roads comes out of general taxation, road tax hasn’t existed for 87 years.
Leaving aside pothole maintenance; it does annoy me when you get loads of dirt and crap that fall off the back of their trailers, which can make the roads both have dangerous obstructions and slippery. Some roads around here are awful for that.
Some of the farm machinery today is huge! In the Scottish borders, the endges of the roads get trashed by them. You'd wreck your car if you went into some of them.
you could always choose to live near an airport and complain about that instead?
some parts near Heathrow's flight path you can have both 😉
It’s an ongoing saga n our local Facebook community page.
Massively oversized tractors and trailer units that are simply too big for the roads.
They are incapable of driving them on the road or at the speed limit for tractors with trailers . They are very good however at driving whilst using their mobile phones.
It appears that they have their own policy for road widening
All the verges are screwed round our way. When it rains heavily this then starts to erode the roads which must be costing the council huge sums of money when they make token gestures at repairs
Its odd that if I drove my car on the grass I would probably arrested for shit driving but they just appear to be allowed to
Moan over
FIFY
No, what you did is spread a false narrative.
Well any farmers I know in the East of Scotland look like they’re doing well enough with all the massive new vehicles for fields and roads, the new houses that have 6 bedrooms 4 bathrooms etc but go through planning as an essential farm labourers house
Sounds like you don’t know any farmers.
It appears that they have their own policy for road widening
All the verges are screwed round our way.
Yeah... and even though they're demonstrably happy to drive off the edge of the road, they still force me (as a cyclist) off the road when there's plenty of tarmac for them to move over into...
Except for the taxes they pay.
everyone knows no farmer earns enough to pay taxes.
Sounds like driving a bit slower near farms will help mitigate some of the problems… like roads being a bit dirty, or verges being unclear and deteriorated.
Its odd that if I drove my car on the grass I would probably arrested for shit driving
You really think so?
The huge tractors and trailers are owned by contractors who will serve a whole bunch of farmers over a wide area because it’s just not worth the hassle of owning anything other than a smallish utility tractor for a farmer with relatively small fields. The potholes can just as easily be caused by large cars and vans, delivery trucks, tankers, five-tonne electric SUV’s… I drive along a road near Corsham which is pretty muddy at this time of year because it has field entrances either side, and is fairly broken up. It also has a large railway maintenance yard where I turn off it, which has large vehicle movements on and off it, then there’s a lot of delivery trucks. I will also point out that the road outside my house is badly potholed, because it has a lot of car traffic as well as it being the road that the fire engines use if they’re on a shout to the south of Chippenham. Not many tractors and trailers, though - funny, that… *rolls eyes*.<br />Torn up grass verges is a frequent issue along country roads, because many are barely wide enough for two small cars to pass, so drivers pull up onto the verge, chewing it up, and ultimately making ad hoc passing places. There’s a steep hill out of the little village of Slaughterford that I used to ride or walk up - it’s so narrow that it’s necessary to press yourself into the hedge to allow even a small car to pass with difficulty, this has absolutely bugger-all to do with tractors, despite there being a large farm in the village.
If farmers are as rich as some here are insinuating, then how come the rate of suicide among the farming community is among the highest in the country?
Local Council taxation = funds the councils spending, hence why you see them going bankrupt. Because it's possible to run out.
Central Government taxation = doesn't fund spending. They issue currency to spend. Can't go bankrupt. Taxation deletes money from existence and creates demand of currency, controls inflation from excess spending.
None of this is an argument to not pay taxes!
That’s obviously causes problems for everyone and yet the council have to pick up the tab for repairing these roads while the farmers pay nothing towards their upkeep.
That seems completely wrong to me.
It seems completely wrong to me that milk is bought for less than production. It seem wrong to me that government is not interested in food production anymore. It seems wrong to me that you need to farm 500-1000 acres to have a profitable farm if you're lucky. But you're right road damage is bad that is also caused by hgvs and verge damage is bad that seems to be caused mostly by people in SUVs and tippers who don't want to slow down and wait
The potholes can just as easily be caused by large cars and vans, delivery trucks, tankers, five-tonne electric SUV’s…
Whilst correct, you missed the big one: weather. Rain followed by sub-zero temperatures, that ice has to expand somewhere.
I think road damage is calculated as proportionate to the fourth power of axle weight. Which basically means that as vehicles get bigger and heavier the damage they cause is exponentially greater. This applies not just to farm vehicles but to SUVs (of which there are many). It’s no wonder the roads are terrible.
I have wondered whether it’s possible to quantify the relative impacts of more and heavier cars and more and heavier plant vehicles but I’ve not got round to it. That would be a long wet afternoon project.
They chew up the verges and never slow down pulling their massive trailers at full pelt
They are incapable of driving them on the road or at the speed limit for tractors with trailers
Who's driving, Farmer Shrodinger?
Back in the day (when I actually used to ride my bike) the roads outside most farms seemed fine, there were just a couple you knew you had to keep your mouth closed lest some of the obvious animal crap mixed in with mud got flung up into it. Can't say I ever really noticed a prevalence of potholes by farms though, I wouldn't have thought a tractor would actually but that much pressure on the road surface given the size of the tyres
it does annoy me when you get loads of dirt and crap that fall off the back of their trailers, which can make the roads both have dangerous obstructions and slippery. Some roads around here are awful for that.
It's down to you to drive at a speed and in a manner appropriate for the conditions. Having driven on some deeply scary rural roads I share your frustrations, but ultimately if you fail to navigate a muddy road then that's no-one's fault but your own.
Must say for all their faults the farmers are fairly courteous compared to the general populous in their oversized vehicles.
If we want to moan about a specific area of drivers I'll take horse box drivers(not the trailers). Those that are driving massive lorry's on their grandfather rights not for hire or reward and have no idea what they are doing . By far the worst group on the road.(I live next to a livery I see them on the regular)
Can we have pics of these oversized farm behemoths please.
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/tractor-trumps-south-glos-rules/page/27/
if the rural roads near me are anything to go by the white Range Rover and Audi SUV drivers are way more of a threat than the tractors and farm trucks.
If we want to moan about a specific area of drivers I’ll take horse box drivers(not the trailers). Those that are driving massive lorry’s on their grandfather rights not for hire or reward and have no idea what they are doing . By far the worst group on the road.(I live next to a livery I see them on the regular)
The worst camp in my experience is actually private school parents. They drive some of the largest cars; private schools are often located in some otherwise beautifully quiet countryside (i.e. good cycling lanes) and the parents are regularly in a rush. It never ceases to amaze me that a loving mother with three children in her Volvo XC90 can have such flagrant disregard for the safety of her fellow human beings.
But yes, I agree with the OP, tractors and trailers are too big. It is usually the contractors who are the worst - slurry spreaders and those bringing in the harvest - they will often be found driving with complete disregard for everyone else.
The GF just said.... (I read out a few posts)
"Oh God,. You are so middle class you lot! And so sad "
You know what, she is right 😉
Can’t say I ever really noticed a prevalence of potholes by farms though...snip
Me neither, the road edges tend to drop off a (small) cliff into the verge but very few potholes. Don't cycle on the cliff-edge and it's fine.
Farmers here seem pretty courteous to cyclists as well, they're less so with other drivers IME
I can honestly say that I wouldn't want to be a farmer, their budgets and livelihoods seem to be at the constant mercy of something unpredictable
Alan had it right all those years ago:
Different scenario here on the Somerset Levels. The Peat barons and their neverending quest to mine the Black Gold and the huge Artics on lanes that were only designed for horse and cart . All built on Peat when they go past the road does a Mexican Wave !
Speaking as the son of a father and grandfather who dug and sold Peat for fuel by horse and cart .
It’s down to you to drive at a speed and in a manner appropriate for the conditions. Having driven on some deeply scary rural roads I share your frustrations, but ultimately if you fail to navigate a muddy road then that’s no-one’s fault but your own.
I mean, obviously I do. Or well, I cycle according to conditions.
But I still don't think it's acceptable to drop a load of crap all over the road.
On the edge of a lot of farms and c class roads in South Lanarkshire - East Kilbride/Strathaven. Great roads for bikes and used by a lot of riders and clubs.
Unfortunately there are a few fleets of big green tractors and trailers with drivers who seem to have a real aversion to the disruption caused by the need to be courteous to bikes. Over the past 5 years there have been numerous reported incidents and presumably many more unreported, including a couple of tragic outcomes for cyclists.
The majority of these tractor drivers seem to have little regard for the Highway Code, mobile phone use when driving rules etc, though I'm sure there are many riders who also ignore the rules, and common sense.
I have had to flee to the verge on too many occasions and now tend to always stop and dismount as a rule when I see the tractor approaching - crap for Strava data but there is no way to win over huge tractors and trailers with big spiky things..
But I still don’t think it’s acceptable to drop a load of crap all over the road.
True.
But I still don’t think it’s acceptable to drop a load of crap all over the road.
It's not, & not acceptable for anyone :
The law on mud on the roads<br />Farmers and vehicle operators who deposit mud on the road are potentially liable for a range of offences and may face prosecution and a fine.
There is a range of powers available to the police and the highways departments of local authorities. Most of the powers are laid out in the Highways Act 1980.
Section 148 of the act makes it an offence to deposit mud and other materials on the highway that would interrupt other users of the highway.
Section 161 of the act states: “If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, deposits anything whatsoever on the highway in consequence of which a user of the highway is injured or endangered, that person is guilty of an offence.”<br />Civil action<br />When mud has contributed to personal injury or damage to property, it is possible that civil action may be undertaken.
The presence of mud on the highway can constitute a public nuisance and loss or injury can result in a claim for negligence.<br />The act also gives the highways authority the power to recover any expenses incurred from having to clean an obstruction on the highway.
In addition, driving a tractor on the public highway with a significant amount of mud attached to it may be considered as ‘dangerous driving’ under the Road Traffic Act 1988. Under this act, section 2a states that the term ‘dangerous’ can include anything which is attached to a vehicle which can include mud.
Farmers also have obligations under the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 and to look after the health and safety of themselves, their employees and anyone who may be affected by a working operation.
round here the biggest issue on country and hill roads is when they are timber harvesting - the wagons literally demolish the small single track roads and they then remain so until taxpayer foots the repair bill- and the timber harvesting industry doesnt pay any tax into the general coffers as its exempt from corporate and income tax!
Was expecting a thread about Mrs S being unable to keep her new car clean.
I is disappoint.
IIRC The maximum weight of a laden agriculture tractor and trailer on the road is 31t. This is almost equal to a HGV 8-axle rigid tipper. The former requires a B Licence (car driver) & the latter a C or C+E licence. They are supposedly limited to 20/25mph but most seem to travel faster than this!
The law on mud on the roadsFarmers and vehicle operators who deposit mud on the road are potentially liable for a range of offences and may face prosecution and a fine.
Does 'deposit' imply intent or does it cover muck that just falls off?
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1168327
Another reason I won't be going electric soon - carrying the bike over thorns.
Does ‘deposit’ imply intent or does it cover muck that just falls off?
I would argue that in the same vein as "you should be responsible for driving according to the conditions. No excuses." drivers have no excuses for the poor condition of their vehicles or the loads they're transporting.
The farmers in our area move snow on minor roads when the Council are over whelmed , clear fallen trees, clear blocked drains in heavy rain to drain puddles/flooded section of roads but some do have a few bad habits with vehicles.
I think they just want to slow traffic in front of farm entrances?
Frustrating on a road bike, no very close clearance mudguards! But mudguards essential!
Some drivers I think are on price and hence not immediately local and time is money! Those tractors and trailers would take a while to stop in an emergency, and flatten a car!
I totally second aggs comments above re their maintenance of local roads in times of trouble. We had 3 field entances within about 200m opposite us, all arable, so you can imagine the crap that could end up out there. However our farmer was super diligent, he was also a contractor with loads of kit. 2" deep mud would bring out the skidsteer to scrape it up then a road sweeper to clean down. His motivation?
His lovely wife had a top of the range RR and there was no way she was driving it through that shite🤣🤣
One thing I have noticed about those mahoosive tractors we get around us is they don’t half shift!
I’d bloody love a go in one!
What about the fact this large kit, tends to be on big wide floatation tyres these days.
In attempt to reduce ground compaction and spread the weight better, so is actually causing less damage to the road than cars? Or even a really fat person on super skinny road tyres?
We all remember that coked up tractor driver literally flattening a car?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-suffolk-65815028
I basically treat them as slightly smaller monster trucks on the road.