A married major with no children would have been entitled to a two-bed house

I understand why the Officers are annoyed, but the reporting does seem to be one sided. Surely the intended consequence of this policy was better housing for those people with families. So whilst they might lose a few officers, they would make things more attractive for junior ranks with kids.

I think this story needs a bit more balance.

Given the massive issues with the quality of housing being offered (maintenance is terrible according to people I know) there are other issues that need fixing first.
Once again, HMG has flogged off a load of crown estate into management companies which exist to make a profit. Then acts surprised when it goes pear shaped.

I knew of some one in military housing. One day some on knocked on the door. They took a knife and ran it across the middle of the living room and rolled up half the carpet. Apparently their rank only qualified for partial carpeting

They interviewed the wife of one of the Ruperts on Radio 4 yesterday. The sense of entitlement was absolutely off the chart. Apparently we all owe her a large 4 bedroom house.

60 grand a year salary for a major.

I earn more than that and could just about afford a two bedroom house...

Having been raised as a "pad brat" in MOD and Home Office environments, I can remember not being allowed in a particular play park as that was for officers children.

one of the things I've not seen mentioned so far is that the two types of housing were not mixed together (maybe they are now). So not only are you asking a ranking officer to move to a smaller house but you're also asking them to live their private lives in amongst nine officer ranks.

Now, maybe that segregation is right, maybe it's not, and that's a whole discussion in itself, but these disciplined establishments have existed like this for a long time so the issue is much more complex than "how many bedrooms".

There's also the question of inadvertantly creating an incentive to have more children to get a bigger house.

And before anyone suggests I from an "officer class" family, my stepdad never made it beyond corporal. My grandfather was chief officer within the home office and had a house next door to the governor.

Don't forget, the housing is part of their reward package. I can imagine plenty on here getting upset if the company Audi was replace with a Dacia, or your private health cover suddenly disappeared.

“Take only what you need” springs to mind….

“Take only what you need” springs to mind….

Yep, that's why I give my employer a chunk of my salary back rather than paying off the mortgage or putting it in my pension.

My knowledge is dated, but I've experienced this from both sides. As a young squaddie with young kids and having commissioned later in my career as an officer. We lived in 9 or 10 married quarters in that time which ranged from dreadful to excellent. In my time the size of quarters was never an issue, but quality was. Rank tbh didn't play much part in it (my experience - others will have different). I never saw soldiers with kids put in too small quarters because of their rank. I did have an SNCO in my unit once who had 5 kids, finding a quarter for him from those available was a challenge - so he ended up in a very nice hiring (rented civilian house) but at subsidised military rent.

The worst quarter I lived in was our first, a damp, cold, mouldy, single glazed, coal fired heap with plaster falling off the walls. Oh how my new wife laughed! It was 3 bedroomed though, and at that stage we had no kids. TBF officer's quarters at that unit weren't much (if any) better. We also had very good quarters too. My understanding now though is that the quality of the housing stock has deteriorated massively since my time.

On the face of it the proposed policy sounds fair, but rightly or wrongly married quarters are seen as a bit of a perk. With all the other issues of constantly moving, kids resettling in new schools, spouse trying to find work in a new city (or country) etc. In the middle of all of that being moved into a smaller house later in my career would have felt like a bit of a punishment and I would have been aggrieved about it.  But I'd have felt that way if I was a senior Cpl, Sgt or Warrant Officer too.

I agree with some of the other posts though - too much of the reporting on this has been based around the officer's concerns and not enough on those of junior ranks.

I understand why the Officers are annoyed, but the reporting does seem to be one sided. Surely the intended consequence of this policy was better housing for those people with families. So whilst they might lose a few officers, they would make things more attractive for junior ranks with kids.

I think this story needs a bit more balance.

*ok its 2024 - spouses/partners.

60 grand a year salary for a major.

I earn more than that and could just about afford a two bedroom house…

Ex forces so I'm normally wired to be pro expenditure on military personnel. However, my brother in law is on his third "adventure training" snowboarding week in the Alps of the season. In work time. He's a pilot, and no one else on the squadron has been on any of the trips so it's not a bonding thing, and he'll gain no qualifications from the trips. I'm struggling to see the benefit here (obviously there's a nice one for him) other than maybe retention. Plenty of opportunity to break a valuable asset for a few months though.

Sometimes the MOD does score some PR own goals.

I was born into a forces house. I drive past it frequently now, all boarded up like the rest of the estate. Seems such a shame.

Army brat here. I remember everyone getting excited about Dad’s posting to Cyprus until we actually got there and saw the location of the living quarters; as my Dad (a Major) was I Corps and it was a Signals base we weren’t housed in the normal officers quarters but with the WOs and foreign secondment officers. My Mum was furious and saw it as a massive slur, especially when a vacant Major’s property was given to a Captain!

You have to remember that many wives, especially those with kids as well might not be seeing their husbands (or wives) for up to 8 months away at a time, they rely heavily upon the support network of other families and they may have to pack up and move at short notice, and try and fit into a whole new area and network and schools, thankfully not so much now.

My experience of much of the MOD housing, especially in the UK was that often it was asbestos-riddled fleapits often with damp up the walls, but i didn't have kids at the time, not every officer is serving with the Blues and Royals, and not all had a sense of entitlement.

Seen a few examples of this upside down benefits structure and pay rises in the private sector recently. Entry levels people getting more, highers (just in higher rate tax) getting less, on the basis that the former are in more need and the latter have had enough time to get a comfortable life in order and have a higher salary.

My (limited) understanding is that much of the housing stock is sub-par. It would surely be better for all ranks to work together, putting pressure on the MOD, rather than getting into a them-and-us tussle.

Always been a nightmare, think we were mugged 30 years ago by Annington houses as well who bought up the stock for a song.

As for this arrangement, again it'll be breaking up some of the structure already there, on base you have officers/senior rates/junior rates set up, off base it works to some extent already, so messing with it'll just annoy folk, the officers wives won't be the only ones complaining, i can't imagine Corporal Jones will be overjoyed if he's sandwiched between his platoon and company commanders 😂

It's all part of the pay and benefits package they signed up to, which in turn feeds into recruitment and retention. In that context I don't see any real issue with it being an entitlement linked to rank rather than need. Change it by all means but there'll be consequences - who here would be happy with their pay and conditions being revised downwards?
In a previous job I had to scrutinise a Colonel's case for upgraded housing - he was after somewhere with a rather lavish kitchen so catering staff could work there and larger reception rooms for entertaining, the whole package being a fair way above what even a Colonel could normally expect. On the face of it a bit over the top, but since his posting required frequent hosting of contractors and foreign military I was happy enough to sign off on it.
Of course he used those contacts to line up a nice soft landing for when he left the Army but that's another issue!

Our CO at 5 Reg RA was married unaccompanied. He was entitled to the CO'S 5 bed detached house on Marne Bks which he used. Helped set up the oil drum BBQ for him one friday.

Cant remember anyone begrudging him the use of it.

Always been a nightmare, think we were mugged 30 years ago by Annington houses as well who bought up the stock for a song.

They paid a fair price, my employer at the time put together a rival bid (the guy on the desk next to me ran it), we thought we had made a blockbuster bid but they offered 15% more, which we didn't believe could be made to work, but they got lucky.

I grew up in quarters. One thing I’d like to note is that the safety record of non-commissioned and officer accommodation was, back then, quite different… fires caused by poor electrics or gas only really happened in one not the other. No idea if that’s still the case. It’s not just a matter of number or size of rooms.

Interesting disparity between the services here. Talking amongst my RN colleagues, the main focus has been on unmarried personnel being charged accommodation in the Mess when appointed to a non-preference port or away on courses whilst us married folk are not. The decision to charge across the board was generally welcomed. The issue of basing housing on family size has generally been seen as sensible and proportionate.

It’s all part of the pay and benefits package they signed up to, which in turn feeds into recruitment and retention. In that context I don’t see any real issue with it being an entitlement linked to rank rather than need

Sure if an officer is single it's a bit of a waste for them to be in a 3 bed house but that was part of what they signed up to, you can't just stick them in a flat instead.

Given the ever-shrinking size of our Armed Forces this is a government/MoD funding/lack of planning issue that they need to address directly and not by a circuitous route of changing the conditions their personnel live in. Fine if it's amended for new entrants and it's made clear to them but not fine to change for people that have served for years.

If an officer is single, they will be living in the mess, or their own accommodation. The houses are Married Quarters, only for married people.

It was an eye-opener seeing accommodation for the ordinary married folk at that famous place where Army officers are trained. Similar standard of accommodation to that of married RAF folk that I've seen. Like some sort of punishment frankly. Not good enough.

If an officer is single, they will be living in the mess, or their own accommodation. The houses are Married Quarters, only for married people.

In the Army there are some expectations, Commanding Officers (Lieutenant Colonel)and some other regimental appointments will be entitled to a SFA (service families accommodation). An RSM (Regimental Sergeant Major, Warrant Officer Class 1, the most senior non-commissioned officer post in a field army unit) is a notable exception for the non-commissioned as well. Company/Squadron bosses (Majors) also have an option depending on housing stock.

Some of this is to provide a little separation for the other officers from their bosses, much like the separate estates for officers and the non-commissioned.

I'll be honest, as much as I liked and respected quite a lot of my bosses over the course of my career, I wouldn't want them as neighbours.

When I was growing up, single officer lived in mess at their own expense, unaccompanied married officers lived in mess but did not pay for accommodation, accompanied married officers had quarter for which they paid rent. AS RM says COs were required to live in the CO's house whether single (don't remember any), unaccompanied or accompanied. My father fell into middle category in one of his last postings so didn't have to pay rent.

Shadow of the Leader seems missing here. I was once entitled to an office in an open plan. I gave it up for my team because their need was greater. Surely part of the gig is that they buy and rent out a property outside of the MOD system as a benefit?

EDIT: My BIL has just left after over 25 years. In all that time he lived away from home rather than move the family. That involved single accommodation or a private rented flat. Whilst he may have been expected to entertain, it never happened. Left as a Brigadier.

Those leadership positions are expected to host functions, hence the need for the accommodation.

The answer would be to build more for the extra need rather than take away from others, but that's a cost......

Surely part of the gig is that they buy and rent out a property outside of the MOD system as a benefit?

Which they pay a mortgage on, if the rent you receive didn't cover the rent you paid then there was no make up payment.

Great idea in principle, one mahoosive problem...there is not enough of the right type of housing stock to accommodate everyone that the MoD has given entitlement to in the new accommodation model.
Classic MoD cart before the horses balls up, doubtless some MoD mandarin trying to save money by attempting to polish a turd and sprinkle with sugar.
Lived in several MQs in my time, varying from your 1940s kitchen to quite modern.

"we were mugged 30 years ago by Annington houses as well who bought up the stock for a song."

I don't know anything about military housing, but if it's true its all shagged out asbestos ridden flea pits, how much would you expect to pay?

When I worked for the NAAFI in Germany I was housed in a room in a junior officers' block. It was ace, the buffet breakfast even better and the other occupants civilised and friendly. Better than any student accomodation I lived in halls or private, and better than anything I could afford myself for another decade.

I joined in with the breakfast routine which involved running around the perimeter of the base in less than a given time to get brekkies. Those that failed had to go around again, so the mainly over weight tank crews ran the first few steps then had a two-lap stroll.