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My 10yo boy's behaviour is becoming a problem. He is rude, selfish, ignorant and disrespectful. Standard 10yo behaviour you might say. Unfortunately however when disciplined for these behaviours, his reaction are extremely difficult, shouting, screaming, throwing himself around, throwing things.
His behaviours are so bad that it has affected his relationship with his GrandMother, and is beginning to affect his relationship with me and his Mother. It also sets an extremely poor example for his little brother, who becomes very upset and the little One therefore becomes difficult to manage after the 10yo's angry outbursts.
It must be considered that One of his parents responds to him in a challenging way, they are sometimes extraordinarily understanding, kind and empathetic, however they sometimes react by shouting and can be very, very short with him. The other parent is consistently more stern, but talks to him about his behaviour, empathises, advises him that discipline is coming and he needs to be mindful of his reaction, and also attempts to guide him through his relationship with the sometimes shouty parent. The 2nd parent is by no means perfect and does also resort to shouting at him, but the 10yo has to push a lot of buttons to get there.
What more can be done by both parents to help him manage his emotions and subsequent reactions? The reactions are the main problem.
From my own experience, I would say shouting at them normally makes you feel better, but does little to help the situation.
My 15 y/o has a heart of gold, but fully knows how to push my buttons sometimes. Most issues stem from a requirement to disengage with phones/computers/PS4.
Is there a games console involved?
Do what you have to do to stay sane.
When my son was younger we had issues - when he did something wrong etc.. and we took away items he just wouldnt care. So trying to punish / teach a lesson was difficult.
We tried everything from star charts, stickers to pocket money (if he had no issues at school).
He's always been active... but we finally found taking him for an early run before school really helped.
It was just a 3km jog - but it knocked the edge of him for the day. It was just one parent and we'd mostly chit chat about random stuff
Eventually he grew out of it - but it was shit time to try and manage it.
Looking back -i'd say just try to be consistant. They have X - they get Y. Possibly with it written down and signed so you can discuss through it calmly and consistantly.
Good luck
Interesting the immediate mention of games consoles. We're not there yet, but a friend has a similarly behaving 7yo. Whenever he does something bad enough to warrant punishment, its the games console or tablet that gets removed and his behaviour is immaculate for the duration. As soon as it comes back, his behaviour descends again.
Make of it what you will!
Does you 10 year old son do any sport? Team sports, martial arts, boxing, climbing etc with a club with the routines of training/playing is a great regulator. I have been round grassroots football for years, and taught kickboxing for around 6 years and countless parents have said to me that the discipline of sport really helps when the child is at home.
Parents have got to be a united front. Parents have got to agree what the response to the behaviour will be beforehand (not making shit up on the spot) and they have to stick to it. As always; encourage good behaviour with rewards, discourage bad behaviour with withdrawal of privileges.
It's a long haul. Good luck.
Agree with Nickc ^
Be united, be *consistent* and, most importantly, never back down.
Sounds tough.
I'd be removing all "privileges" and remind him why that's happening. He's got to figure it out for himself that being a dick doesn't actually get you anywhere after all I'm afraid.
Screens are often the cause of the poor reactions, for instance he was given 160 minutes on a Switch yesterday morning playing Mario and Fortnite (against my wishes), and when he was asked to get off it, his behaviour deteriorated dramatically. The same happens when his tablet or phone (again supplied against my wishes) is taken away from him.
He does TaeKwon-Do but little else physically.
Thered - it sounds like you and your partner need to be clearer with each other about how to deal with the child - it sounds like you are contradicting each others' style and the child is taking advantage of it (or simply doesn't know what to do).
OK if game playing and screens are the centre of the issue, then at ten, he's not going to be able to be sensible about it, and will need rules that are easy to understand. Is he online with his mates when he's doing it? As that can be a thing to overcome, it's a big part of how kids interact with each other so tread carefully. You could try to agree with him about reasonableness but I'd go along the lines of "You have 5 hours a week, do you want it in a couple of long sessions, or spread through the week, your choice" rather than vague stuff asking him how long he thinks is reasonable. Obviously all chores, Homework, tidy up to be done before rewards, and you've got to give him (both the kids) an alternative that's not screens preferably outdoors and running about, I don't know any ten year olds that don't get a kick out of playing in the woods, and other rewards as a family like a Maccy D or cake or a day at some attraction to look forward to.
It may be worth getting the parents of his friendship group together to organise actual physical "play days" as it can take the edge of the screens for all the kids
he was given 160 minutes on a Switch yesterday morning playing Mario and Fortnite (against my wishes), and when he was asked to get off it, his behaviour deteriorated dramatically
Next time he gets 130mins, and an explanation why, repeat each day that he behaves the same (until he's down to 0mins), or add 30mins back if he's responsible
Next time he gets 130mins
Ours get 10 minutes off the next round for every one minute they are over. To try to be fair, we give them a 30 minute then a 10 minute reminder to finish up.
It must be considered that One of his parents responds to him in a challenging way, they are sometimes extraordinarily understanding, kind and empathetic, however they sometimes react by shouting and can be very, very short with him. The other parent is consistently more stern, but talks to him about his behaviour, empathises, advises him that discipline is coming and he needs to be mindful of his reaction, and also attempts to guide him through his relationship with the sometimes shouty parent. The 2nd parent is by no means perfect and does also resort to shouting at him, but the 10yo has to push a lot of buttons to get there.
he was given 160 minutes on a Switch yesterday morning playing Mario and Fortnite (against my wishes),
These are the two key points. He's getting an inconsistent approach from both of you, so he's testing the boundaries.
and when he was asked to get off it, his behaviour deteriorated dramatically.
Assuming this is Sunday morning, when he came off it - what was there to do? Were you doing anything as a family? Were you going out? Was he being asked to do something to help out around the house. Or was the alternative to just find something else to amuse himself?
Or was the alternative to just find something else to amuse himself?
But that should be an option – we tell our girls to get off devices if they have been on them too long, we don't always have something else to do - we just encourage them to do something else like walk the dog, do some baking, do some art etc.
Gaming again ! Boys are worse for it. My daughter will come off but son had always reacted badly to it, even now he's not much better at 23, staying up too late on screens, and then is a grumpy git in the morning.
We resorted to smart plugs and internet being physically turned off at points. He's got better, but still tried to burn the candle at the wrong end.
Stick with the consequences, he may learn.
Have you consider what the causes of the flash points are any commonalities?
Do you set clear expectations when they are regulated? Or spring the sanction when the behaviour is ‘bad’.
Do You actively praise good behaviour, no matter how small. Do you spend quality time with them to maintain rapport ?
Are they neuro divergent?
Pick your battles- is all Behaviour die in a ditch problem. This can be difficult if you and parent B don’t agree where the ditch is.
+100 to united front parenting.
Both parents need to get on the same page, dishing out the same amount of encouragement and punishment. Kids are very good at playing them off against each other.
One parent needs to stop using the deferred threat of punishment by the 'meaner' parent to influence behaviour. If bad behaviour is happening, it needs to be dealt with as soon as possible.
If it's related to gaming, you need to be united in setting and sticking to play times, and follow through on any restrictions, rather than make empty threats.
If both of you are putting the boundaries in the same place, and enforcing them, at least that sends a clear message that certain behaviours are not negotiable.
But first, make sure everything is OK at school. Be aware that Year 6 SATS can significantly ramp up the pressure on children (ridiculous, isn't it?), and leave them a little more mentally knackered and outbursty at home. My kids school also reduced the amount of 'letting-off-steam' activities such as sport etc to worship the all-powerful examination system.
Massive sympathies here, it's a nightmare not losing it with kids. Daughter at 12 is really pushing us. Son at 9 remains compliant for the moment. But you have to remain the adult, and work as a team.
But had to ask, you are letting him play a console for 3 hours.... ! Is that common?
No pudding?
Thered
We're in the middle of a 10hr drive so I read this thread to Her Indoors as she's driving. She's a child psychologist so here are her thoughts:
Are you & her separated? You haven't said as much but it sounds like it due to the lack of consistency and differing viewpoints. If so, you need to sit down with her & work out a consistent approach.
It's not the behaviour\reactions that are the issue - we need to invest in the connections within the family and in whatever activities he enjoys that can foster those connections.
He needs a timetable for what he's doing on a daily\weekly basis and clear time limits for device use and probably a countdown for when he has to come off. (He shouldn't really be on Fortnite at 10 but you could try playing Mariokart with him for example).
A planner is doubly important if you're living in separate houses.
OTs would suggest that the brain is working so fast when you're playing games that, when you come off, afterwards everything seems slow & boring by comparison. He needs to do something physical after gaming - trampolining, pillow fight, football etc. That will help regulate his emotions and reset the brain before moving on to another activity.
Does he read or draw or listen to audio books?
You could try a marble jar. Each time he does something right (like coming off a game on time or tidying his room etc) you put a marble in the jar. Once it's full he earns whatever treat or day out you've agreed on in advance. Don't ever take marbles out for bad behaviour. Just don't add one.
Good luck.👍
PS We've been fostering for 15yrs too so this stuff does work.
Can't really help but in a similar boat with our 8 yr old boy, his younger brother 6
The behaviour for us is definitely linked to screen time. The more you let them play the worse they behave. The problem is, they have no ability to entertain themselves that doesn't involve a parent referring 100% of the time. Leave the room for a wee? one of them will have started on the other and invariably the youngest is claiming his arm has been cut off or something. It is exahausting. The only way to get respite, to do any jobs is to give them screen time, so its a vicious circle.
They had 3 hours on sunday morning in front of the telly whilst we were trying to do stuff in the house. Quiet during, then they were absolute shits afterwards. At a loss of how to manage them and actually try and get anything else done. Take away screen time means you have to be with them 100%. They are pretty good if you take them out or play games with them, but you cannot do that for every single waking hour.
Have tried to get them into crafting / art, but again unless I sit there with them, they won't do it. The only god send is they do both read in the mornings before getting up so at least we don't have it like some with the kids barreling in at 6am
Niether are allowed to go anywhere near fortnight, but I caught them yesterday playing some sort of shooting game on roblox. Its a kids fire so it's supposed to be locked down to age related content.
Following this thread for tips!
But that should be an option – we tell our girls to get off devices if they have been on them too long, we don’t always have something else to do – we just encourage them to do something else like walk the dog, do some baking, do some art etc.
That's a relatively sophisticated skill, and not all 10yr old can manage that on their own. As Namastebuz says with what sounds like lots of experience, the 'downer' after the addictive/adrenalin buzz of gaming can be hard to handle for a child unless they are straight into another focussed tasked. A self generated focussed task is not always an easy thing to achieve, especially if what they want to be doing is the gaming.
Look at it another way - imagine you had an morning without commitment - no one is expecting you to do anything other than keep yourself entertained. So you do your favourite thing - that could be mountain biking. Someone then says to you that although you've still go no commitments, you MUST stop doing your favourite thing after an hour and find something else to do. Would you not be grumpy? I would. It would matter that someone tried to explain that more than an hour of mountain biking was bad for me. A 10 year old can't be expected to understand why more than a finite amount of screen time is bad for them. They can be training to respect the rule, but not necessarily why the rule is there.
With that in mind, having the end of screen time hard up against 'dead time' can be a bad thing, or at the very least hard for them to get right. Ideally time it so that the allocated time ends in time for an event - "you've got 60 mins but we are all leaving the house together at 4pm" or "you've got 30 minutes but we are all eating together at 6pm".
Sorry if it's already been mentioned..and I could well be wrong..but think 9/10 also a classic period of testosterone growth in boys, so hormones and energy raging.
We were often approaching similar issues to the OP until a couple of months ago when he suddenly started football training - Thursday/Friday and Saturday football hasn't stopped the energy but it's made it positively bouncing off the walls/excitement, rather than heated.
Doesn't help OP with managing the current situation, but certainly done a huge amount to calm things down for us
One of mine when through a phase of absolute screaming ad dabs when they couldn't get their own way at about the same age.
After some consideration, we filmed it all and then reviewed it after dinner but before they were due for bed.
Questions like 'Do you think thats a good look?' 'is that the right way to behave?' 'why did you behave like that?' 'would you like it if we did that to you?' were asked.
Being made to reflect on it was very effective.
We were also screen Nazi's.
Parents have got to be a united front.
This. If you have different approaches, a kid will absolutely play you off against each other.
Whenever he does something bad enough to warrant punishment, its the games console or tablet that gets removed and his behaviour is immaculate for the duration. As soon as it comes back, his behaviour descends again.
Make of it what you will!
What I make of that is "removal of things they like." Could equally have been a football. If you're going to arbitrarily go "right, fun time is over, time to stare at a wall for an hour" then of course they're going to kick off. You're removing the console, what are you replacing it with?
Kids are only kids for a finite amount of time. Let them be kids.
I Am Not A Parent.
he was given 160 minutes on a Switch yesterday morning playing Mario and Fortnite
Did you have a stopwatch?
(against my wishes)
Why?
This sounds like a 'you' problem. Screens aren't the cause of bad behaviour, removal of screens for little reason beyond "because I said so" is the cause of bad behaviour. Again: what are you replacing it with? Are you dragging him off the Switch to take him to the park? Have you got a Lego set to build together? Or are you just being nowty because Screens?
We've had some issues with one of ours over the past few years. We ended up reading an interesting article that ome children learn to process their emotions earlier than others. It's those that struggle to learn how to process these emotions are often seen as "troubled children".
Our youngest struggled, and still does to process certain emotions such as frustration. For example if she plays a game and loses, it often results in anger. This isn't because she's a bad kid, it's because she doesn't know how to process the feeling that losing brings.
Some might then let the child win each time, but this doesn't help. It just means they'll learn how to deal with frustration later. Often now we talk before we play a game and explain that she might lose. And that when the feelings get too big (even before the game ends) that we pause and try to talk about them. Sometimes she needs space and will take herself off to a quiet place and try to deal with them.
When people talk about "growing out of it" they really mean the child has grown enough to be able to process those feelings in a "normal" way.
I've found the trick is redirecting the anger into something else. We have some boxing pads and gloves, and when it gets too much we do a little sparing session. Or in the summer we go for a run together.
Hope any of that helps?
We were also screen Nazi’s
Unfortunately parenting's a topic that gets everyone pulling out easy answers and flippant responses.
Mine is that screens are <bold>always>/bold> a reward for something - a day of good behaviour, eating all the dinner with no complaints, etc. Personally (just me, I'm not saying anyone else should have the same standard) if my kid's on a screen and it's not a reward, I feel like I've failed. Like I should've taken the time to find something better for them to do, I could've made the effort to do something with them myself, and what is it I'm doing that's so important anyway?
My other gut feel is 160 minutes (nearly 3 hours) at that age is a huge amount of time to be on a screen. As someone else said, in mine I see bad behaviour often starts with too much screen time - and the *expectation* of screen time as a right.
Beyond that, just echoing everyone else's points: consistency of parenting is vital, both between parents so there's no "Mum let me do this"; and over time so that the rules of the game remain constant and unchanging - be good, get x; don't be good, don't get y.
And just like with dogs, the single best thing to do no matter what the weather/ mood/ day of the week is get them outside, charging around, burning off energy and building endorphins. Can be football/ trail running/ cycling/ swimming/ martial arts/ some silly game involving a ball, a frisbee and a sock - it doesn't really matter as long as it's fun and gets them outside
Also,
I spent a lot of time in front of a screen as a child. Understanding the importance of "I'm a couple of minutes away from the next checkpoint / save point" would have been critical in me going quietly or having a meltdown.
"We're doing something else in ten minutes, wrap it up" is a world apart from "stop now."
Personally (and this is just me, I’m not saying anyone else should have the same standard) I feel that if my kid’s on a screen and it’s not a reward, I’m failing at parenting. Like I should’ve taken the time to find something better for them to do,
I made a career out of it. I'm at a loss for what "better" might have looked like for me. I can't really see myself as having been a professional footballer, even for Accrington Stanley.
Screens are often the cause of the poor reactions, for instance he was given 160 minutes on a Switch yesterday morning playing Mario and Fortnite (against my wishes), and when he was asked to get off it, his behaviour deteriorated dramatically. The same happens when his tablet or phone (again supplied against my wishes) is taken away from him.
As others said you do need a united front parenting - that doesn't mean you actually both need to deal with everything exactly the same way, and doesn't mean your partner necessarily needs to level up to your standard. The bits in brackets in the quote above and the coded way you wrote the OP tell a lot. That doesn't mean your partner is in the wrong - but you clearly think they are - and that's the first thing to sort out. Now why does your partner believe giving the Switch/Tablet/Phone to the child is a solution? I suspect its because it shuts them up, keeps them busy, gets them out of the way. Now why is that? Is it that your partner is being left to run the household, or try and earn a living at the same time as being responsible for the child? Are you pulling your weight with everything else or thinking that being strict parent is a job in itself? In this house, we probably operate to different standards - I'm the tolerant one, but also an escalation point; when the kids get told off by me they really know they've gone too far BUT if they talk back argue, are rude etc to either of us thats never tolerated or ignored.
Excessive gaming has long been an issue for parents. Gaming with friends online makes that worse - if you restrict the times you restrict time with friends. Covid made that worse because we forced kids to only interact on line then expect them to understand its now different.
Someone said boys are worse - perhaps more likely to use certain types of game but IME girls are just as likely to spend too long using Social Media, and being nasty amongst themselves. In fact it may be the kids are on Switch because mum and dad are on Insta and STW!
The sports/activities thing is not just good advice because of the exercise and disciplines aspect but because they will spend time with others face to face. It could be a chess club, a drama group, scouts etc. As well as all those benefits its usually an hour or two where they function without a phone!
Oh and a final thought - does the kid's personality traits seem like either of yours? the things I'll tolerate most are my own weaknesses and those are also the things that infuriate my other half the most about the kids.
If parents are inconsistent it makes the child feel unsafe
If a child is unsafe then they will react in a defensive manner
Also emotion/needs need to be addressed first
Behaviour second
Two very different things
To qualify my post:
Parent of 3 kids
One of which is 14
One 5
One 2
Hybrid family also
I'd be careful about using something that you feel is unhealthy as a "reward" for children. By doing this, the subtext is that the thing that you're using as a reward is something that they'll feel good about in later life, using it as a form of comfort.
I think, generally it's better to make it just a normal part of life. Like sometimes you get sweets, sometimes you get to play fortnight, but quite often you don't.
No major advice as mine are only 5½ and
just 3, but Thinking back to my youth, this probably sums up a lot.
“We’re doing something else in ten minutes, wrap it up” is a world apart from “stop now.”
The game may be pointless in the grand scheme of things but it's just as pointless as being one place higher than your mate on Strava. The game is probably a big thing to them right here and now.
But it's sunny and 12° so I'm off outside with the kids to watch spiders and slaters
Father of two boys here. We insisted that some time at the weekend had to be sports. "Boys are like dogs and need regular exercising" was the approach that we used. If nothing else it takes some of the energy away and fills some of the time. We did a variety of sports - settling on rugby and cricket. We (the parents) got involved with the clubs, so we were supporting, but just in the background. It does help to build a shared experience for the family
Boys also, generally, respond to boundaries. They know when they have stepped over them, and the consequences of stepping over. But you do need to consistent. At times it is tougher on the parent,.
Obviously every child is different, every parent is different.
Good luck
I'm curious now as to what you'd have done with girls.
That jeffin fortnite brings out the worst behaviour. We allowed our 16 year old ( 12 at the time) to play it and he just ended up getting angry etc and behaviour went down hill.
Our 10 year old played it without asking, but it didn't take long to realise what he was up to and it has been removed.
He can stick to his gorilla tag on Meta Quest instead. Never has any issues when asked to stop playing ( and it kind of keeps him fit whilst he's playing) 🙂
Some parental shoutiness has been mentioned above.
That never seems to help things in our house, I'd say it makes the behaviour and child reactions worse. It's hard, but needs to be avoided. Also if it's happening between adults.
More positively, a mini indoor trampoline and a chin up bar have really helped our two burn of a bit of energy and put themselves back in a good place.
that's really frustrating to read. All children (and adults) need exercise. Its probably even more important to cultivate it in girls because complex social and physiological reasons mean they tend to do less after about 12. But there are lots of ways to get exercise without doing sports: walk up a mountain; ride a bike non-competitively; paddle a canoe to a nice picnic site. Society has this weird social construct where we work all week then do sports at the weekend, and we expect our boys to do sports like its still some sort of roman gladiatorial contest. If the boys would rather get some exercise by walking to and from a pottery class and having some mindfulness with clay away from the screens that might be just as useful a way to develop them as rugby and cricket. Equally if girls want to roll in the mud rather than craft with it you'll get far better behaviour from them if you nurture their interests than force them to do something they don't want to.We insisted that some time at the weekend had to be sports. “Boys are like dogs and need regular exercising” was the approach that we used. If nothing else it takes some of the energy away and fills some of the time. We did a variety of sports – settling on rugby and cricket. ... ...
Boys also, generally, respond to boundaries.
Got similar problems with an 11yo boy with Fortnite.
He went to secondary school in September and it was only then that we let him play Fortnite and its like sodding catnip to teens/pre teens.
He does plenty of other activities, does well at school, reads lots, plays football twice a week, martial arts, drumming but if he is on Fortnite getting him off is a nightmare and it really impacts his moods in an awful way. The issue is that these games are specifically designed to be addictive , they continue without a fixed time and you can't just leave a game you have to finish it. If you just stop playing it impacts your ranking etc We start with about an hour at a time and just before the hour give the 5/10 min warning. When you go back in there are only 10 people left so it will only be another 5 mins etc etc. Last Monday I pulled the plug, his gran had made his dinner and I was working and could hear he hadn't come off and got really annoyed with him.
Monday and Tuesday no Fortnite as there are other things in the evening and wed nothing until all homework is done etc
At the weekend we have realised not to let him play in the morning as it seems to cause moods for the rest of the day.
It doesn't help when some kids seem to play for 3,4 or 5 hours at a time and we are there with a stop watch but so be it!
Interesting to hear so many with the same experience. Particularly with boys and shooting games.
I think I will be imposing wifi curfews when they get older.
Ours are only allowed Telly during the week, they are mostly off doing beaver / cubs / swimming other stuff. ipad / switch time is only on a friday and from 4pm at the earliest on sat/sun. Its bad though, they sit and clock watch then, even if they have a mate over, when it hits 4 they are straight on the device. Its proper addiction, they would spend every waking minute on them if we let them
When I read threads like this I feel I made the right choice in not having kids.
Just reading some of these stories makes my hands very twitchy. I doubt I've the patience for the job.
It's funny though, as the GF and I will often comment about people's kids and the parents' approach to discipline. However, we dare not offer any advice as it's not likely to be taken very well given our childless choice.
Raising functional human beings has been the hardest and most rewarding thing I have ever done.
However, we dare not offer any advice as it’s not likely to be taken very well given our childless choice
Wise. Because you really have no idea.
'no plan survives first contact with the enemy'
This talk of having something else lined up after the allotted screen time ? Why the need to entertain them all the time keep them occupied? How about they use their imagination? Our 8 year grandson is going through this at the moment , everything is boring ! Apart from watching other people playing Fortnite etc ? 🙄 Grandaughter will happily disappear into a world of imagination with dolls etc but he has no imagination whatsoever despite having plenty of toys etc .
I thought we were creating an outlet when I took him on a bike ride on a local nature reserve last Summer , only a few miles cake stop halfway , nice sunny day , on the way back he said this is boring it’s just dead straight! 🙄
Get him off it.
First - tell him it's a 12 anyway.
Second - despite what he says - not everyone else is playing it. Believe it or not, there are other parents out there who don't let their kids play it.
Third - eventually he'll find something more enjoyable to do that might include you too.
We didn't let any of our own or various foster kids play Fortnite until about 16. By which point they weren't that bothered.
I got persuaded to get into RC cars by one of our kids & now they all have them. We build them, break them and then fix them.
"This is much better than any video game!" Said my 10yr old.
This talk of having something else lined up after the allotted screen time ? Why the need to entertain them all the time keep them occupied?
I'm not suggesting it should be the adults responsibility to engineer ever minute of every day for a child, but screen time is an exception. The addictive nature makes most adults struggle, so to think a child will have a healthy relationship with it and be able to walk away at will is unrealistic. 'Scaffolding' their early interactions and preventing confrontation that is not just anecdotally going to happen but is scientifically likely to happen is surely a good thing.
BTW - Video games are not a bad thing. They're fun.
I started playing video games back in the early 1980s and have played them (on and off)ever since.
If you play them yourself you understand what the kids are experiencing when they play and how time can fly when you're totally absorbed.
We played a lot of multiplayer or co-op games with our foster kids. Guitar Hero, Mario Kart, 'Splosion Man, Overcooked, Bomberman and lots of racing & sports games. It was a great way to build relationships and have fun together.
Try learning a game & playing it with your kid. They'll love it.
Anyone interested in the physc behind why us males can be like this with gaming etc could benefit from reading this (I know I did!): Judson Brewer's - The Craving Mind. I came across him after the book he wrote with Oprah (which isnt as good). This is genuinely interesting and has some answers - but its not aimed at youngsters as such: just us as a species that has evolved and about how companies / tech prey on this etc in a deliberate way that can hook into these instincts which for me as a teen were addictive.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Craving-Mind-Cigarettes-Smartphones-Hooked/dp/0300223242
Proper middle aged STW thread this. It was music, then films, then music again and now video games. Ten year old boy who loves Minecraft and Roblox. Just gets a ‘ten more minutes’ and that’s it. No tantrums or anything. He doesn’t play Fortnite because I control what he plays. Then again, I play video games too. Might have something to do with it.
My younger brother was a dick in his early teens and wouldn’t listen to his mum. I threatened to format the HD on his PS3. Much better threat than turning off the internet.
Does he have a bike?
Do you live somewhere with easy access to trails worth riding, or a downhill spot?
a 26" wheeled DH/Enduro bike should be easy to build up quite cheap these days, and might keep him entertained and exercised (and outside)
Couldn't agree more with what @poly said above.
It's all incredibly hard work, and it sounds like you do need to present a united front, but also have to stick to a long road of changing behaviours. I did a course on the Incredible Years positive parenting approach, and I found it offered a lot of very useful tools for parenting. There's no one way of doing things, and i'm not saying it is some panacea for parenting - parenting styles aren't dieting plans! I've just found many aspects of it worked for me, and it is an evidence-based approach. There might well be some things that would help your situation, and it's something you and your partner need to do together too.
boys with shooting games are easy compared to girls and social media!Interesting to hear so many with the same experience. Particularly with boys and shooting games.
like many things in life strict prohibitions and curfews aren’t always the best way to develop healthy relationships.I think I will be imposing wifi curfews when they get older.
We played a lot of multiplayer or co-op games with our foster kids.
Yeah we got a wii (ages my kids!) and turned screen time into family time. The kids still got to play games, and also got to laugh at (and teach) parents.
Definitely worth noting that not all games are the same in terms of bad behaviour, frustration etc. I should know - I've been playing Elden Ring for the last 4 months and at times I'd come off that absolutely grumpy and antisocial.
If it's Fortnite, it's a game with bright colours and rapid reflexes (so any kid's going to be hyped up after playing and take a while to come down); it also involves shooting people (so they're riled up); and often as not it involves losing (so they're really peed off). Never a good combination for good behaviour.
Whereas there are masses of games - even co-op ones - that are more mellow, contemplative etc, and like to have less of a negative effect on behaviour
Consistency is bloomin hard when parents have quite different personalities, but you are right it's the only way.
WRG to Fortnite, i agree, and ROBLOX and that stupid gorilla game on the MetaQuest - infact ANY AND ALL online computer games where you interact-more so with boys is a problem, as Mike Tyson put it - people have forgetten what it's like to get punched in the face!! We've had the same issues (12yo) and have now taken it all away. He's ability to interact in a socially acceptable way is appaling when he's behind a screen, but in front or actuall living people he's an angle (excpet mum and dad).
Recently had to take the phone away too - the school agree with me on this that no-one under the age of 16 should be able to use social channels and whatsapp type things as so much of the comms is appalling between them all and is the single biggest headache for teachers to deal with. So my 12yo is now on a tech sebatical until we see major consistent improvements.
Edited to add. Son does next to no phys, except swimming once a week -simply wont do it despite getting him to try loads of stuff out. And also apparantly the big wide world is too dangerous for 12yo to go out and play in nowadays.. <grumpy face>
TBH my girlfriend gets the tantrum when she tries to pry my fingers from my keyboard and I'm 34 years old.
Are you & her separated? You haven’t said as much but it sounds like it due to the lack of consistency and differing viewpoints. If so, you need to sit down with her & work out a consistent approach.
No but I agree consistency is 1 issue, the parent who over-reacts rapidly has recognised that their behaviour is unhelpful, and has committed to improving this. Although this is not the 1st time that said commitment has been made and broken.
It’s not the behaviour\reactions that are the issue – we need to invest in the connections within the family and in whatever activities he enjoys that can foster those connections.
I completely get this, but being honest, shouty short-tempered parent has an anxiety issue. This means that when both parents are in the house, they will only prepare meals and then sit in front of the TV (they have no active hobbies of any kind) with both children and don't help with any housework or chores. Obviously this puts pressure on the other parent, who then has no time to be active with the children, or to play MarioKart, or guitar, or read.
He needs a timetable for what he’s doing on a daily\weekly basis and clear time limits for device use and probably a countdown for when he has to come off. (He shouldn’t really be on Fortnite at 10 but you could try playing Mariokart with him for example).
This is in place, but when shouty, short-tempered parent is experiencing an anxiety storm, it is sometimes not enforced, as on this occassion.
A planner is doubly important if you’re living in separate houses.
OTs would suggest that the brain is working so fast when you’re playing games that, when you come off, afterwards everything seems slow & boring by comparison. He needs to do something physical after gaming – trampolining, pillow fight, football etc. That will help regulate his emotions and reset the brain before moving on to another activity.
Does he read or draw or listen to audio books?
He does both.
You could try a marble jar. Each time he does something right (like coming off a game on time or tidying his room etc) you put a marble in the jar. Once it’s full he earns whatever treat or day out you’ve agreed on in advance. Don’t ever take marbles out for bad behaviour. Just don’t add one.
This is also already in place.
@Cougar
Parents have got to be a united front.
Totally agree
Whenever he does something bad enough to warrant punishment, its the games console or tablet that gets removed and his behaviour is immaculate for the duration. As soon as it comes back, his behaviour descends again.
Make of it what you will!
What I make of that is “removal of things they like.” Could equally have been a football. If you’re going to arbitrarily go “right, fun time is over, time to stare at a wall for an hour” then of course they’re going to kick off. You’re removing the console, what are you replacing it with?
I also totally get this and alternatives are always suggested, again for the reason above, shouty short-tempered parent is not engaging with any alternatives and the other parent is very often doing housework. I'm pleased to say that the consistent msg in lots of these responses has started shouty short-tempered parent thinking, I think they may be realising that "Off the switch/tablet/phone." with nothing other than TV as an alternative is a huge part of the problem.
Kids are only kids for a finite amount of time. Let them be kids.
I Am Not A Parent.
he was given 160 minutes on a Switch yesterday morning playing Mario and Fortnite
Did you have a stopwatch?
The Switch app allows me to see the playtime
(against my wishes)
Why?
Because as mentioned above on the subject of rewards, he collects 10p for every chore, he can exchange this for 5 minutes of screen time, on the day in question he had 35 minutes to use, but was given 160 "because his mates were online."
This sounds like a ‘you’ problem. Screens aren’t the cause of bad behaviour, removal of screens for little reason beyond “because I said so” is the cause of bad behaviour. Again: what are you replacing it with? Are you dragging him off the Switch to take him to the park? Have you got a Lego set to build together? Or are you just being nowty because Screens?
As mentioned above, 2 things can't be done at once, and if the housework isn't done, shouty short-tempered parent gets shouty at the other parent too.
@poly
Screens are often the cause of the poor reactions, for instance he was given 160 minutes on a Switch yesterday morning playing Mario and Fortnite (against my wishes), and when he was asked to get off it, his behaviour deteriorated dramatically. The same happens when his tablet or phone (again supplied against my wishes) is taken away from him.
As others said you do need a united front parenting – that doesn’t mean you actually both need to deal with everything exactly the same way, and doesn’t mean your partner necessarily needs to level up to your standard. The bits in brackets in the quote above and the coded way you wrote the OP tell a lot. That doesn’t mean your partner is in the wrong – but you clearly think they are – and that’s the first thing to sort out. Now why does your partner believe giving the Switch/Tablet/Phone to the child is a solution? I suspect its because it shuts them up, keeps them busy, gets them out of the way. Now why is that? Is it that your partner is being left to run the household, or try and earn a living at the same time as being responsible for the child? Are you pulling your weight with everything else or thinking that being strict parent is a job in itself? In this house, we probably operate to different standards – I’m the tolerant one, but also an escalation point; when the kids get told off by me they really know they’ve gone too far BUT if they talk back argue, are rude etc to either of us thats never tolerated or ignored.
One parent is on a couch watching TV suffering with anxiety. It's worth pointing out that this is almost every saturday afternoon after they have been to an art class, and consumes most of their sunday's too. It is also the way that most evenings are spent.
Excessive gaming has long been an issue for parents. Gaming with friends online makes that worse – if you restrict the times you restrict time with friends. Covid made that worse because we forced kids to only interact on line then expect them to understand its now different.
Someone said boys are worse – perhaps more likely to use certain types of game but IME girls are just as likely to spend too long using Social Media, and being nasty amongst themselves. In fact it may be the kids are on Switch because mum and dad are on Insta and STW!
The sports/activities thing is not just good advice because of the exercise and disciplines aspect but because they will spend time with others face to face. It could be a chess club, a drama group, scouts etc. As well as all those benefits its usually an hour or two where they function without a phone!
Oh and a final thought – does the kid’s personality traits seem like either of yours? the things I’ll tolerate most are my own weaknesses and those are also the things that infuriate my other half the most about the kids.
He is very much like the non shouty short-tempered parent was at that age, but is without question a better kid. My 10yo therefore gets significant empathy from the non shouty short-tempered parent.
A note: I know that describing 1 parent as "Shouty short-tempered" is very disrespectful, however they were very unkind last night, and this parent is jolly annoyed with shouty short-tempered parent.
I am reading through and trying to get to the bottom of just what is going on, but I *think* the OP is saying that their partner is suffering with anxiety and it is that person who is also the shouty parent who is also not sticking to agreed plans? If this is the case I can kind of see what is going on - they have anxiety, they don't know how to cope, that aren't fully in control with their own emotions so they end up shouting and/or giving in to the child's demands just to get an easier life.
If this is the case, then I suggest rowing back and looking to get help for the person suffering with anxiety – get to the bottom of that and you might find that the parenting bit might become a bit more easy to cope with.
Because as mentioned above on the subject of rewards, he collects 10p for every chore, he can exchange this for 5 minutes of screen time, on the day in question he had 35 minutes to use, but was given 160 “because his mates were online.”
This puts me in mind of the Third Rock From The Sun episode where John Lithgow's character discovers tipping.
In any case: you're (both) not following your own rules, so how can you expect your kid to?
2 things can’t be done at once, and if the housework isn’t done, shouty short-tempered parent gets shouty at the other parent too.
Again, this is a "you" problem. You need to have a conversation with other parent when small ears aren't in range.
I don't mean to be personal, but a lot of what you're describing here sounds like what I experienced when my partner turned peri-menopausal. She went almost overnight from someone calm and kind to someone with absolutely no patience who would Hulk Out if the wind changed direction.
That doesn’t mean your partner is in the wrong – but you clearly think they are – and that’s the first thing to sort out.
All of this. As you said, "this parent is jolly annoyed with shouty short-tempered parent" - what's that demonstrating to the kid? It sounds an awful lot like the parents need to sort their own shit out before worrying about their children's conduct.
Covid made that worse because we forced kids to only interact on line then expect them to understand its now different.
It's different for you. [devil's advocate:] Why is it different for them? Why should it be? I'm ten years old, I'm spending time socialising with my mates as I have for the last year or two, now I'm suddenly being told that I can't do that anymore because "it's different." That doesn't make any sense to my adult brain, let alone my 10-year old one. [/devil's advocate]