[Closed] A King James Bible for ever state school?

No and I am sure the jews and the Muslims are waiting eagerly for their copy in their schools. I say theirs obviously the taxpayer funds it

just the one would be ok I suppose, shouldn't be too expensive.

The headmaster could always use it to prop her office door open to show how accessible she was.

I think they ought to have one, alongside the Qu'ran and the Torah and the Dhammapadda and some sutras and whatever other texts for the major religions. It just shouldn't have any special place other than as a textbook available to pupils.

I think they ought to have one, alongside the Qu'ran and the Torah

Not all teachers drive Volkswagens 🙄

Are state schools generally C of E? I can't remember.

A fair few are catholic - I'm not sure how offended they will feel about being given King James Bible. I suspect not very much, and they will take it in their stride. Which is probably what everyone should try to do.

Northwind - Member

I think they ought to have one, alongside the Qu'ran and the Torah and the Dhammapadda and some sutras and whatever other texts for the major religions.

A veritable library of faerie stories.

Probably showing my age, but wouldn't pretty much every school already have one in the school library?
The whole thing does seem to have a hint of a "the thick of it" script about it.

Still, it looks like the kids are really into it.
[img] [/img]

I believe they have been funded privately. Whilst I think the money could be better spent, it's not my money so who am I to tell whoever stumped up the cash how they should spend it.

I don't think their generosity should be criticised really.

I don't think their generosity should be criticised really.

But why bother to donate a book that every school that either wants, or doesn't want, one probably has anyway? I can't imagine that there is a particularly long waiting list to borrow this most [i]desirable[/i] (....yes, yes, one of the most printed book ever...)of tomes from most school libraries.

Why the King James version, other than it being some sort of arbitrary anniversary year? Why not a version written in ancient Greek or Hebrew? Why don't they send a Kindle version?

Father forgive them, for they know not what they do...

Why the King James version, other than it being some sort of arbitrary anniversary year?

I believe mainly because it's the 400 year anniversary of the King James version - it really wouldn't make any sense to use another version to mark that event.

And also undoubtedly because most people won't be bothered that a King James Bible is being sent to every school, eg :

Maulana Shahid Raza, chairman of the Mosques and Imams National Advisory Board, said: ‘I hope it enables children of all faiths to discover the heritage and cultural legacy of their country and helps them to grow up in a peaceful, cohesive and tolerant society.’

A fair, reasonable, and tolerant, comment. I hope he never tries to post those sort of sentiments on STW 🙂

one presumes then that the naysayers aren't english speakers. which must be the case as otherwise, allowing for some farfetched claims as to originality of phrase or usage with the kjb, one would be sidelining it as a critical text in the codification of the english language.

similarly the argument must be made that if it isn't to be available in schools then perhaps it lacks historical significance which would be to entirely ignore that period, what's it called? oh yeah, the reformation. and that series of events did nothing to shape the history of the entire european continent and beyond the world.

but then again that could just be me. let's ignore the language we speak, the history through which it was formed and the effects it had on the culture we now live in. fabulous idea. best start with the kids eh?

I'd be astounded if every school didnt already have one.

I'd be astounded if every school didnt already have one.

They aren't just sending them some generic paperback copy from Waterstones to bung on a shelf.

Even Richard Dawkins has commented on the beauty of the English used in the KJB, it really is a fundamental text, easily as important as Shakespeare when talking about modern English.

Not that I'm convinced sending a single copy to a school is going to make any difference, but it's not my money.

It's a book. For schools. For free.

What's the issue?

Education is about asking questions and seeking answers about [b]all[/b] aspects of life; I'm agnostic, but if a free book in my school library increases the opportunity to learn stuff then I'm happy to look at the bigger picture...

It's a book. For schools. For free.

What's the issue?

I think you'll find that the issue here is that it's a [i]religious[/i] book, and this is STW - home of intolerance, and religious intolerance in particular.

😕

I'm confused.

We're talking about religion, and yet so far the comments have been well-balanced and sensible.

Very strange for a STW 'religion' thread.

I'd have been more in favour if Michael Gove hadn't insisted on writing a foreward to it.

I'd have been more in favour if Michael Gove hadn't insisted on writing a foreward to it.

😆

What possible value can that nit add to the biggest selling book in the history of the world etc

When I was at school all the year 7 kids got given a bible by the gideons anyway. I think mine went in the bin.

I don't agree with religions so I find it a bit irksome but at the same time I think that since we have so many people who follow these curious ways of thinking students should have access to information about all of them. Much the same way you learn about Nazi's but don't necessarily suggest it as a career path.

easily as important as Shakespeare when talking about modern English

let's ignore the language we speak, the history through which it was formed and the effects it had on the culture we now live in. fabulous idea. best start with the kids eh?

Can't really see any sensible objection to giving kids access to books.
Particularly hugely influential books that have shaped our language and heritage today.

As long as they keep it in the fiction section obviously. 😉

We're talking about religion, and yet so far the comments have been well-balanced and sensible.

Very strange for a STW 'religion' thread.

Well it's true that people like Junkyard who is usually a reliable source of religious intolerance/outrage, have only made a half-arse attempt. Perhaps what Guardian reading "lefties" need is something to jeer them up and get their teeth into.

Let the Guardian come to the rescue and help to whip them up into a frenzy of indignation :

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/may/15/michael-gove-king-james-bible ]Michael Gove's King James Bible plan rescued by millionaire Tory donors[/url]

Unfortunately the article only claims that Michael Gove wrote an accompanying letter not the forward. Although on the plus side it does darkly suggest that the project is being bankrolled by "mostly former hedge fund and private equity bosses".

It's a book. For schools. For free.

What's the issue?

Balance?

As long as the schools use it in conjunction with other religious texts and some text that provides a counter viewpoint that's great. They will then have some context in which to make decisions regarding their own lives.

If, as Ernie suggests, it's funded by an external source, you do have to question their motives at the very least (blimey, did I just agree with Ernie, must go lie down).

Wow ernie you really are a bastion of tolerance and respect the likes of which I can only aspire to
You are like a poor mans Z-11 trying to provoke a reaction to overcome your ennui with the same old [personal ish] attacks.

You would be lost without someone or something to goad on STW
Good luck finding someone to bite so you can pleasure yourself via arguments on the internet, personally Mleh and IDGAS

Balance?

That's up to the schools to sort out though surely?

If it was being given on condition that it was taught as absolute truth and was not contested [u]then[/u] I'd get upset and start frothing into my skinny latte.

As long as the schools use it in conjunction with other religious texts and some text that provides a counter viewpoint that's great. They will then have some context in which to make decisions regarding their own lives.

As someone who deals with a great number of schools, from state comps to independents to grammar, I'm fairly confident you'll find a wide and varied range of religious texts in most school libraries.

it's funded by an external source, you do have to question their motives at the very least

Does this include other external sources, such as the British Library, the British Science Association, the Historical Association, etc...?

[url= http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Junkyard&word2=Ernie_Lynch ]FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! [/url]

🙂

Junkyard - Member

the same old [personal ish] attacks.

Junkyard..........the man who has never knowingly posted a 'personal attack' on someone !!!!!!

Seriously mate, that made me lol 😀

Being bloody suspicious, I find that the books are from a private donor through the Gov. If a private donor wishes to give a KJB to every school then why does the Gov need to be involved?

Unless it's a case of Bibles for Peerages or PM Questions?

Or to distract attention from the phone hacking / Jeremy Hunt debacle?

Just being suspicious?

it's funded by an external source, you do have to question their motives at the very least

Why so much cynicism/suspicion.

Maybe someone just thinks it's a good idea and wants to use their privileged position (i.e. loads of money) to help, especially at a time when the govt is pretty strapped for cash.

bullheart - Member

As someone who deals with a great number of schools, from state comps to independents to grammar, I'm fairly confident you'll find a wide and varied range of religious texts in most school libraries.

Seems reasonable as long as the schools provide text that dispute the religious texts as well - you know, the whole picture - there is, there isn't, and all the varieties of each.

Does this include other external sources, such as the British Library, the British Science Association, the Historical Association, etc...?

Yep, as long as the motivation is known and up front. For example British Science Association are, I assume, promoting the scientific method. Which, on balance perhaps answers the first point. As long as my 2 are provided with the information, they are sufficiently intelligent to determine for themselves which route/s to follow.

Free books are great, as long as they are free in all senses of the word.

If a private donor wishes to give a KJB to every school then why does the Gov need to be involved?

Of course the government doesn't need to get involved. I'm sure the bibles could have been distributed without the involvement of a senior government politician. I have no doubt that it's just a political stunt by the Tories. But so what ?

SO, what, SO WHAT! how the hell is that kind of comment going to fuel the athesit arguements on here!

Get a grip ernie, where the hell do you you think you are!

Remember to focus on the core doctorine of STW: 'My opinion on everything is right, if you disagree with me, you are an idiot' 🙂

he does 😀

Ouu.....is that a personal attack JY ? 🙂

observation ? 😉

I d rather the govt was involved in giving all children in the country access to a cornerstone of the dominant religion in the country than pretending religion is good bad or insignificant

totalshell - Member

I d rather the govt was involved in giving all children in the country access to a cornerstone of the dominant religion in the country

Every child in the country already has access to it.

Being bloody suspicious, I find that the books are from a private donor through the Gov. If a private donor wishes to give a KJB to every school then why does the Gov need to be involved?

i agree, I think religion should steer clear of the state and the state not show favour to any religion or belief.

Our copy arrived at school today. I took great pleasure in leaving it in the fiction section of the library before I left tonight.

bigblackshed - Member
Being bloody suspicious, I find that the books are from a private donor through the Gov. If a private donor wishes to give a KJB to every school then why does the Gov need to be involved?

Unless it's a case of Bibles for Peerages or PM Questions?

this^

goves plan has been foundering for a while, im sure hed like to have had the state pay but then for fairness theyd have to buy a copy of other major religous texts too

the kjb may have had an important place in out literary history but it was written by king james for the propaganda purpose of reinforcing the divine right of kings and making sure the plebs know their place

which sounds about right for a tory gov.

goves generally a dick his push to privatise education is far more worrying, his lies about academies and healthy food is a prime example [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/apr/22/jamie-oliver-academies-junk-food ] http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/apr/22/jamie-oliver-academies-junk-food [/url]

just wait till may finally gets the boot from the home office and gove gets that job, thatll be extra scary

As long as the schools use it in conjunction with other religious texts and some text that provides a counter viewpoint that's great.

it really is a fundamental text, easily as important as Shakespeare when talking about modern English.

so, totally unimportant to anyone outside of academia or the handful of people who can actually work out what the hell shakeapeare is saying then ?

or the handful of people who can actually work out what the hell shakeapeare is saying then ?

"handful"

Seriously ?

I'm with trailmonkey on this, I reckon Shakespeare must've been on the ol' sherbet when he wrote some of his stuff, and working out wtf he was trying to say isn't much more than a guessing game. Good stories though.

If they want to make the bible more accessible then, well in London at least, they should distribute the Cockney Bible.

[img] [/img]

For example it's a sheer delight to read the Lord's Prayer (AKA the Guvnor's Prayer) in Cockney :

[b][i]Hello, Dad, up there in good ol’ Heaven,

Your name is well great and holy, and we respect you, Guv.
We hope we can all ‘ave a butcher’s at Heaven and be there as soon as possible:
and we want to make you happy, Guv, and do what you want ‘ere on earth, just like what you do in Heaven.
Guv, please give us some Uncle Fred, and enough grub and stuff to keep us going today,
and we hope you’ll forgive us when we cock things up,
just like we’re supposed to forgive them who annoy us and do dodgy stuff to us.
There’s a lot of dodgy people around, Guv;
please don’t let us get tempted to do bad things.
Help keep us away from all the nasty, evil stuff,
and keep that dodgy Satan away from us,
‘cos you’re much stronger than ‘im.
Your the Boss, God, and will be for ever, innit?
Cheers, Amen. [/i][/b]

Why so much cynicism/suspicion.

Maybe someone just thinks it's a good idea and wants to use their privileged position (i.e. loads of money) to help, especially at a time when the govt is pretty strapped for cash.

Or they could have tried to do something actually useful.

If they want to make the bible more accessible then, well in London at least, they should distribute the Cockney Bible.

And the [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Book-Dave-Revelation-Distant/dp/0141014547/ ]Book of Dave[/url]

so, totally unimportant to anyone outside of academia or the handful of people who can actually work out what the hell shakeapeare is saying then ?

😯 Schoolchildren do Shakespeare. It really isn't that hard to understand 95% of it and any decent text will have footnotes explaining the other 5%.

Anyway, yes the text of the KJV was/is hugely influential. There are around 250 odd idioms and phrases in English that come directly from that text. No other book can claim that.

Here are some you may have heard of:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/bible-phrases-sayings.html

The King James bible is available in every school with a web connection, which is all of them: http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/

Anyone bothered by the bibles being sent into schools would surely be more bothered by the compulsory act of daily collective worship? And anyone bothered by the government's involvement in the distribution would be more bothered by the non-separation of religion and state?

I hope someone donates The God Delusion to every school in the country

Anyone bothered by the bibles being sent into schools would surely be more bothered by the compulsory act of daily collective worship? And anyone bothered by the government's involvement in the distribution would be more bothered by the non-separation of religion and state?

doesnt happen in mosy schools. I also think you have missed the point, no one is botheted by schools getting a book. The problem is Gove writting the intro and the book being clearly just for display purposes.