[Closed] A chance for the arty types to win a weeks riding.

The prize must be used in 2012 and [b]excludes flights, accommodation, food and bike hire[/b]

Fancy prize that. 😕

seeing your jersey being worn around the world

How do we do that?

LOL @ geoffj.

Is this a form of advertising? That should be paid for?

Didn't class it as advertising, more as a way of giving people the heads up.
At the end of the day, nobody is forcing you to have a look or even enter!

Erm, what [i]does[/i] it include?

Looks like it could still cost you about 600 euros or so (plus the cost of your flight) if you win!

Bargain!

hunterst - Don't know where you work out 600 Euros plus flight from. You can stay half board for 35€ per night and choose your dates well and you can fly over for bugger all too. Most people bring their own bikes, so no bike hire costs. Guiding alone, for the week would cost between 225€ and 300€ depending on whether you choose XC or DH.

Not a bad prize if you ask me, or is a couple of hundred quids worth of prize not enough for you?

deadlylarcy - It does include a weeks guided riding with all transport.

All happy now? Probably not 🙄

Hi Darran
Rode with you a couple of times back in october- great memories of the 72k Mt Teide descent.My son may be keen on having a crack at this- I'll show him your post
Neil

Prize please 😐

[img] [/img]

Nice one Jamie, but since you didn't follow the entry rules I've had to disqualify your entry 🙂

nc21 - Cheers!

A chance for the arty types to win a weeks riding.

DD...that could mean you win and he says "OK, go off and ride your bike for a week"

Lavatrax...go with the flow?

really?

I can't see your logo on the site?

Subtle/smack in the face advertising? Call me cynical.

Subtle/smack in the face advertising? Call me cynical.

More, get other people to do your design work rather than pay someone to do it*

*My New Year's resolution was to be more cynical.

Quality by Jamie, I love the idea of a prize that costs me money to use very thoughtful that.

Any design with

[img] [/img]

as the main logo is going to look dated.

No, I'd call cynic-al cynic al....

The design has to include the logo, but you have to email the competition email address to get details of the logo.

so, that's free advertising, free design and building up a database of e-mail addresses.

They've done quite a good job really!

Cynic All by the sound of it..

Could someone enter MRsToast's pic of the boy on the bike with the teddy in his pack and the rainbow coming out his arse?

Do you want me to enter the boy or the teddy? I'm not comfortable with either option but if it means someone tagging along while I ride in Tenerife.....

@cynic-al. That's where I suspected this thread would end up. That thread with the picture you mention was one of the best threads I have ever followed, so calling all you design types do your worst, it would help me through a rather dull day at work tomorrow

[url= http://i.imgur.com/GdWdL.jp g" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/GdWdL.jp g"/> [/img]
[/url]
©Mrs Toast.

Guiding alone, for the week would cost between 225€ and 300€ depending on whether you choose XC or DH.

[i]That's[/i] the prize is it not?

Wrecker - That is indeed the prize, along with one of the finished Jerseys.

To the others, what is so unusual about a business offering an incentive (prize) to the public to come up with a design / slogan / product or what ever. Ok, so maybe some big multinational can offer a bigger prize, but the idea is the same.

Potdog have you got a URL with the 3 logos on you want incorporating in high res please?

I suppose the feeling is that it doesn't seem a prize when the winner would still have to face considerable outlay in order to claim it.

OP, thing is, the prize isn't worth 225 - 300€ is it? Not to you anyway. One assumes you'll already have guides out anyway so the actual cost is far less. Let's pluck a random figure of say 100€ which you're going to shell out to get loads of free designs which you may or may not use, now or at a later date. How much would a design agency charge for three designs which will then require artworking before a shirt printer will look at them?

I have no problem with what you're doing. I just think you could throw something of real value in.

Why don't you just chuck in travel and all expenses, you might shut up the wingers and get some professional graphic designers involved, there's enough of them on here, rather than just have-a-go arty types, you might even get a new logo thrown in 😉

And who would want to go somewhere riding by themselves? I know I would want to go with riding mates.

Attention bike guidey types:

I'd like a bunch of bike guiding companies to each give me two days free guiding, then whichever one I prefer when they're all done wins a free jersey design from me,

Interested, Potdog?

Thought not.

8)

Unfortunately such little *real* value is placed on the contribution us designers can give means there are way too many people asking similar to the OP.

[url= http://www.no-spec.com/ ]No-Spec[/url]

Why Speculation Hurts
By Robert Wurth, Creative Director, Freshly Squeezed Design

When your company seeks out a new logo design, advertisement, brochure, or any other marketing collateral, what you’re really looking for is a solution to a problem. For example, you have just made a new product. Your problem is that no one knows about it, so you require a means to alert potential customers. You might conclude that an advertisement is the solution. In reality, the advertisement is merely the vehicle that delivers the solution, but the concept is similar enough.

Some companies advocate the practice of gathering a number of different designers or agencies to pitch ideas for a project. The way it works is that the company calls up several different designers and says, “We need a new ad. Come up with an idea to show us and if we like it, we’ll hire you.” If the designer is lucky, the company will at least have a creative brief, a short document explaining the problem, to send.

In the design community, we refer to this practice as speculative work. It requires a designer to put forth work on behalf of the company without any promises or guarantees of getting paid.

This practice has become popular because many companies erroneously view it as a quick and easy way to get the best ideas from designers. Unfortunately, requesting speculative design is a poor business decision because it caters to the lowest common denominator of design. It also forces designers to engage in the poor design practice of making snap decisions.

Currently, one of the hot books in the world of business and marketing is “Blink: The power of thinking without thinking” by Malcolm Gladwell. In Blink, Gladwell advocates for the inherent quality of decisions that are made in an instant, citing that often these decisions are just as accurate (if not more accurate) than decisions made after careful, conscientious deliberation.

However, within the book Gladwell also cautions that the process of snap decisions can backfire, sometimes drastically. The difference, he says, seems to be one of knowledge and experience. For example, you might come to me doubled over and complaining that your stomach hurts. I might make the wrong snap decision that it must have been something you ate and that you’ll be fine. A doctor, on the other hand, might make the correct instant conclusion that you have appendicitis and then examine you more thoroughly.

Gladwell’s explanation for this would be that the doctor’s experience allows him to instantly take in all of the subtle clues about your condition, allowing his mind to make a correct conclusion based upon very little data. Of course he would order more tests to be sure, but that’s not the point. Rather, the point is that I lack the experience and knowledge to give me a chance to make the same sort of correct diagnosis. I might have been able to guess right, but that would simply have been a matter of chance. Instead, my snap decision is based solely on my personal experiences — maybe I ate something bad once, and it gave me a severe stomach ache.

This is important because it relates directly to speculative work.

Inspiration never comes from just nowhere. It is the culmination of experiences stored subconsciously for the right moment to all click together. Speculative design work is an attempt to force inspiration without the benefit of experience. None of the designers are allowed the opportunity to get to know you and your business. They aren’t allowed the time to examine your market and industry. They simply lack the necessary data too allow them to make good, informed decisions about your marketing.

The result is that the designers are forced to develop ideas based upon their own personal experiences and preconceptions about you and your company. Without any research, or discussions with you to guide them, their ideas become less about substance and more about style.

If the designers are talented, they will certainly be able to come up with appealing designs. It’s even possible that one of them, through sheer chance, might hit upon a perfect solution to your problem, but that’s a gamble. In fact, it’s a gamble on two levels: first that at least one of the designers comes up with the right solution, and two, that you happen to choose that design.

Many business owners tend to distrust designers. They will hop from designer to designer, never satisfied with the work and becoming more and more jaded to the process. Often this is a result of poorly executed ideas that come from the speculative process. The knee-jerk reaction is to blame the designers for not hitting the right message, without ever considering that their own process might be flawed.

So, going back to the beginning, you still need an ad. Having read all of this, you decide not to put out a call for pitches, but rather you decide to choose one designer or agency and work more closely with them.

Now, the process is different. Before the designer ever gets to the idea stage, he or she comes in and talks with you to get to know you and your business. The designer is armed with materials you’ve done in the past, information about who your customers are, about who the competition is, and what the industry is like.

As the designer absorbs more and more information about your company, preconceptions are replaced with meaningful knowledge. When inspiration strikes, it has context that is relevant to your business and your needs, and that makes for a better design that caters more to your needs, and less to the whims of the designer.

That is a great piece and so true to my experiences.

Quite recently we were asked to pitch for a new digital project for an entirely new concept in business-to-business social networking (ie, nothing like LinkedIn, AliBaba or any of the other business networking sites out there)

We did our pitch using social networking platforms (ie pitched using Facebook, Flikr, YouTube etc) to get across our understanding of the complex nature of these networks and how they can be utilised. In the pitch we said we couldn't even attempt to start creative work because they hadn't yet told us anything (they said they would only divulge the real details of the site once an agency had been appointed and Privacy Policies signed) so any work we did couldn't possibly have any value until we knew what the site did.

They told us they loved our creative approach to the pitch. But gave the job to someone else because they did some visuals.

🙁

Potdog - you may be interested in [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/anyone-started-a-thread-they-wish-they-hadnt ]this[/url] thread ... 😉

[img] [/img]

Potdog - Member
To the others, what is so unusual about a business offering an incentive (prize) to the public to come up with a design / slogan / product or what ever. Ok, so maybe some big multinational can offer a bigger prize, but the idea is the same.

I think they make the prize clear - yours should have been along the lines of:

"Win a week's guiding (no travel, accomodation, bike hire, food, or in fact anything else, included"

that's what's got people's backs up.

since that pic seems to be broken, here's another...

[img] [/img]

loving that

I get asked once every month or so to produce work for a new cafe/pub/club/venue, and it's always when it comes to price people act surprised you want paying. Then there is the story they are expecting lots of rich and famous people to walk through the door and thousands of customers will see your art so really their doing you the favour.

On some drawing forums I go on there's a new user every week or so asking for a logo or tattoo design, again shocked that people want paying.

My friend has a mug with 'I am an artist. That does not mean I will work for free. I have bills too' on it 🙂

it's always when it comes to price people act surprised you want paying.

👿

'It'll only take you 5 minutes'.

True though 8)

At least once per month I get "I am a venture capitalist with no money who has just read 4 hour work week and been made redundant and I've got a great idea for a site that mixes together facebook, youtube and linkdin. I can't pay you now but I'll give you a 10% stake in my imaginary company plus some magic beans if you do all the work for me. Don't worry though it will only take you half a day because you know how to work photoshop."

Last month I was offered permanent use of a beach villa in Rio if I would work free but with huge promised future income. I think I'll pass.

because you know how to work photoshop

My personal favourite was someone who took a picture of a stairway with a child safety gate at the bottom and asked me to remove it. I resisted the temptation to tell him that I didn't know the shortcut for 'Remove Child Safety Gate' in this version of Photoshop, instead suggesting he went back, actually remove the safety gate and take another photograph.

My personal favourite was someone who took a picture of a stairway with a child safety gate at the bottom and asked me to remove it. I resisted the temptation to tell him that I didn't know the shortcut for 'Remove Child Safety Gate' in this version of Photoshop, instead suggesting he went back, actually remove the safety gate and take another photograph.

I might be able to top that?

I was once asked to design an advert containing a manufacturer-supplied product shot of a pair of fancy hi-fi speakers. However I was asked if I could photoshop them so we could have the fronts AND backs on show in the same photo.

Explaining why I couldn't involved quite a long discussion about the laws of physics and the differences between 2 and 3 dimensions, and a rather detailed diagram of how one would only be able to achieve that goal by the strategic and rather absurd positioning of a mirror during the photography stage.

I've been asked to perform some ridiculous photoshoppery in my time, but breaking the laws of time and space tops the lot so far.

You could have placed a LH and a RH ad and simply flipped the picture on one of them to show the reverse of what was on the front of the picture.

😕

😆

http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p2.html

Simon's Pie Charts. For free. 😉

I must have read that about 100 times over the years and it still amuses me.

Must resist the temptation to read the 'Lost Cat' one as I normally start to cry through laughing so hard when reading that one.

My favourite graphic design story is the lengthy explanation about the process including idea finding and originality and arriving at the final design which was quickly followed by three or four designs that were almost identical. Can't remember where I saw it though.

Ohh get you. 😀

I still stand by my argument that I didn't copy it, I simply followed the idea to a (admittedly similar typographically) conclusion using a similar creative process other designers use. There are no really new ideas now. Wasn't it someone like Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec that said that some 130 or so years ago?

Oh designers, I feel your pain. "How can you possibly justify charging that much for one day's work?!" (I'm a wedding photographer).

However I was asked if I could photoshop them so we could have the fronts AND backs on show in the same photo.

Couldn't they have just popped a mirror behind the speakers?

...or just photoshopped one in?

Ohh get you

There are no really new ideas now.

[quote> http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p2.html

Simon's Pie Charts. For free.

Beat me to it.

Just looked at the web site and it seems you already have a winner. Like the childlike scribble design.

I still stand by my argument that I didn't copy it, I simply followed the idea to a (admittedly similar typographically) conclusion using a similar creative process other designers use. There are no really new ideas now.

What a cop-out. IMO that was a proper lazy piece of 'design', and singularly unremarkable. That you managed to convince someone to actually pay good money for it is the real talent.

Wasn't it someone like Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec that said that some 130 or so years ago?

Ecclesiastes said something simliar some two thousand years previously....

Well that's your opinion Elf and you are welcome to have it. My client was very happy with the results (and thoroughly enjoyed being involved in the creative process along the way) as was I with the result so I remain happy and unconcerned with your opinion on the matter.

Enough already!

I am only jesting.

But I tell you what - it is a good job he lives 250 miles from me and my arsenal of borderline illegal assault rifles is safely locked away.

[img] [/img]

I like the TJ reference through the image - very subtle. 🙂

What design are you guys talking about anyways? 😕

A logo I did for a client which then (unfortunately for me) then turned out to have some very similar versions floating around the interweb.

What design are you guys talking about anyways?

I think this was it...

[img] [/img]

I am waiting for the spoof jersey designs, come on people.

Twas this if anyone cares.

http://www.oasishumanrelations.org.uk/

Apologies for bringing it up again... 😳

And the typography was similar to this one (although the graphical execution of the image above is entirely different).

[img] [/img]

And this

[img] [/img]

You should see some of Effin's creations...

Not bothered DS - as people always display on here, they think what they want just as I do.

I have no feeling of guilt as I know I went through a creative process to get to where I did and I didn't just copy another logo (although I accept there are similarities but that is inevitable.

He bloody well did kern it. Just in case anyone asks in the future...

[img] http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQdDIHx8bmQRos4vPIfcP-D7YWRCbuwU7r1r6bkLdQn253m5X89mw [/img]

mmmmmm......kern.

Oh designers, I feel your pain. "How can you possibly justify charging that much for one day's work?!" (I'm a wedding photographer).

That's coz you photographer types really take the piss - grand a day at least* 😉

*I'm just a paultry designer

No kerning, shame on you.

I bloody well did kern it you cheeky monkey.

Why is the o almost touching the a then?