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Here you go Mr Brexiteer i give you 100 pennies, one penny is a magic "fish" penny now this magic penny is worth much more than 40 "EU" pennies.. so i will keep the 40 worthless pennies and you can have your magic penny.
Brilliant, but accurate.
Looks like Barnier is playing a blinder (for the EU).
Explanation for the simpletons please?
We are cutting our nose off to spite our face over fishing?
Or we are fighting tooth and nail for a very small bit of GDP (magic penny)that we actually sell most of that GDP to the EU then letting the big GDP disappear
It simply confirms how retarded this country is.
Every fish penny comes with a magic unicorn
...and a blue passport!
They must be laughing their collective arses off at our fish obsession.
My favourite analogy was the stock broker who gave up his job to enable him to give his son a lift on a paper round.
Posted a few weeks ago on t'other brexit thread...
UK exports about 80% of it's fish catch to the EU; most of the fish eaten in the UK is imported from the EU.
This is the hill on which a trade deal will fall; complete lunacy; absolute ****g madness.
UK exports about 80% of it’s fish catch to the EU; most of the fish eaten in the UK is imported from the EU.
Is this some sort of take back cod troll?
Is this some sort of take back cod troll?
Lolz. First plaice prize for that!
Shhhhh.... Don't break the spell.
That magic penny will be touted (trouted?) as being the be all and end all and *totally* worth it to cult members.
Shhhhhh....
Is this some sort of take back cod troll?
Brill joke.
Eel go far.
Cod almighty.
I'm a beginner, be nice
Whale I'm still whiting for a sole advantage of Brexit to appear.
The UK is never going to be the plaice Brexiteers want it to be if we get fishy delas like this.
UK definitely floundering in the negotiations; time to turbo(t) charge them.
Stuck between a rock salmon and a hard plaice
UK exports about 80% of it’s fish catch to the EU; most of the fish eaten in the UK is imported from the EU.
So why don’t we just eat the fish we catch?
So why don’t we just eat the fish we catch?
Apparently it's the wrong type of fish.
The stuff the French like to eat lives in our sea, and the stuff we like to eat lives in theirs.
We mainly eat white fish, daftly mackerel being food of the gods. They eat all sorts and like frozen.
Cos we're peasants who pretty much only eat cod, 'addock and plaice.
Ie the stuff that Johnny foreigner catches.
Mackerel and sardines are volume catches in UK waters but the great british public don't much like them; the french do so we export.
Are those figures for fish caught in UK waters or fish landed at UK ports?
Fishy data:
Deep fishy data:
https://www.seafish.org/insight-and-research/market-supply-data-and-insight/
(I would guess that it is catches landed in the UK, but not certain without digging into the second link - which I don't have the appetite for!)
Edit - FrankConway's link is better.
I’m a beginner, be nice
Don’t you worry, everyone here loves boobs.
greyspoke - here's a link for you which provides headline numbers; if you then click on the full report Section 4 provides detail on the trade in fish - showing imports/exports by type and country.
We are a net importer (no pun intended) of cod but we also export some; same applies to other types.
At face value that seems ridiculous but I'm sure there's a (good) reason.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fishing-industry-in-2019-statistics-published
johnx2
Free MemberWe mainly eat white fish, daftly mackerel being food of the gods.
Testify! Though, it does mean that mackerel's often cheaper, we've got a fish van dude that comes round every friday and my mackerel's always cheaper than the haddock. And unsmoked haddock is just white mush that tastes of nothing, unless you coat it in breadcrumbs in which case it's white mush that tastes of breadcrumbs.
It seems that both sides are being rather petty and shellfish
Thanks for the links @frank. According to the detailed report:
A smallish amount of UK landed fish comes from foreign registered boats (mainly Norwegian). And UK boats land fish abroad (mainly mackerel and herring to Norway). So those would count as imports and exports respectively.
There is a breakdown by where caught but that is not according to territorial waters. So for example the North Sea is divided into Northern and Southern parts, both of which would include UK and non-UK waters. But it looks like UK territorial fish are the major part of the catch.
We eat Tuna, Prawns and Salmon (not Scottish), and you don't see them in the north sea. Jeez, I hope one day someone is held to account for all of this.
For cods hake.... I can't take the puns
Once upon a time...and everyone lived happily ever after - in the 27 EU states.
Couldn’t the boats meet up in no mans land (sic) and just swap catches?
God, this is easy. Next!
Just don't ask why the shops have New Zealand lamb in...
Back on track...
They must be laughing their collective arses off at our fish obsession.
I'm sure they would if it didn't mean that they're going to sell less Audi's/mountain bikes/wood burners etc etc etc as the prices will all shoot up due to WTO tariff rules.
It's bloody madness. A more pragmatic approach would be to nationalise the whole industry, scuttle the boats and retire the fishermen on decent pensions, even the young ones! But no, we'll screw the whole economy for an industry worth fractions of a percent of GDP.
But Blue Passports! ****ing idiots.
Bonkers, utterly bonkers. Cornwall last summer, boat off loading a shed load of crabs (spider and brown) and lobster, asked if they're going to the local fishmongers, answer; no mate most of this lot if off to France and Spain. WTAF!! Fantastic produce, bugger all food miles and we're export it.
Just to catch up on puns can you put that in whiting I am a bit hard of herring.
Meanwhile I was listening to R4 last night Is Britain Ready for Brexit?
One of the many things that didn't make sense was over fishing. The concern was that road transport delays at Dover would mean the cargo of fish bound for Europe would go off and be ruined.
It appears we catch fish in the Channel land it in UK put it on a lorry and send it to France.
Lets assume the French do likewise. Is it too simplistic to suggest the fishing boat fishing the Channel lands it in France and ditto the French boats here?
I know this is a bit late in the day as we are about to abandon the single market but has fish been excluded from the single market or is it run by M&M Enterprises buy?
We eat Tuna, Prawns and Salmon (not Scottish), and you don’t see them in the north sea. Jeez, I hope one day someone is held to account for all of this.
Loads of prawn trawlers in the north sea, every salmon that makes it's way up river has came from the sea, and the only reason you don't see Tuna off Yorkshire* is cos it was fished to extinction in the last century.
*Though there has been a fair few reports of them coming back.
https://www.theguardianbrexit-fishing-gamble-suggests-no-10-forgot-its-economics-homework
About sums it up.
Essentially we are going to make a huge issue out of something that is of very little concern to most of us, in order to appease a tiny minority.
A bit like Brexit
I do think there's a potential for a sea change though.
When the restaurant trade died on it's arse in Spring, obviously demand completely dropped off at my local fish market, one of the local boats decided to change tack and now bypasses the market, sell straight to the public. They sell out in 3 hours every time they rock up at the harbour, take card payment, online orders, it's brilliant. Here's their list from last week -
Large Prawns - £10/Kg
🦐 Prawn Tails - £6/Kg
🦞Lobster - £10/kg
🦞Cooked Lobster - £9/kg
🐟 Whole Monkfish - £6.50/Kg
🐟 Whole Cod - £5/Kg
🐟 Lemon sole - £7/kg
🐟 whole Haddock - £4/kg
🐟 Haddock Fillets - £1.50 per fillet
🐟 Smoked Haddock Fillets - £2 per fillet
🐚 Shucked Scallops - £8 for 5
🐙 Octopus - £4/kg
🦑 Squid - £7/kg
Brexit negotiations are starting to remind me of the history of WW1. Incompetent aristocracy in charge. A million lives lost, 400 yards gained.
🐙 Octopus – £4/kg
^^^^
That's a deal!
Spent some time in Thesaloniki, going out with a girl who lived near a cafe that did take away battered octopus and chips. New cultural experiences eh...
We're going to end up eating lot more shellfish. I'm alright with that, I do wonder what battered lobster will taste like with my chips...
Hope they remove the shell first...
Even The Guardian's resident Brexiter is having second thoughts:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/03/boris-johnson-fishing-brexit-deal-eu-britain
And let's look at what he said in 2016...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/06/brexit-britain-property-bubble
I have zero problem with eating more mackerel and shellfish - am I allowed to be happy that white fish will now cost more for the gammons speeding themselves to death on cod and chips?
Simon Jenkins ^^^ has been spouting bollocks for years but even he now seems to have grasped the reality of brexit - but too late.
That reality has been obvious since the referendum.
27 v 1 was only ever going to have one result.
The UK dealt itself a shit hand and proceeded to play it as badly as possible.
I posted on the previous page that the UK's refusal to reach an agreement on fishing appears to be the hill on which the negotiations will die.
Utter madness.
Fishing has some mythic symbolic status which appears to give it totally undeserved relevance.
Clearly johnson has no understanding of the UK-EU trade in fish; see post on page 1 and follow the link.
UK fisheries are the shrubbery demanded by the Knights of Nee.
Utterly perplexing to those on the other side of the table, and a complete irrelevance to reality.
Bonkers, utterly bonkers. Cornwall last summer, boat off loading a shed load of crabs (spider and brown) and lobster, asked if they’re going to the local fishmongers, answer; no mate most of this lot if off to France and Spain. WTAF!! Fantastic produce, bugger all food miles and we’re export it.
Eat a lot of lobster, do you?
This sort of narrative had been the root of the problem all along. We get an anecdote like this and the Daily Express gets the gammons into a frot with sensationalist headlines like "JOHNNY FOREIGNER IS TAKING OUR CRABS!" when the reality of the matter is, we don't want them. If we didn't export a large proportion of what we catch, it'd wind up in the bin. This is how trade works, we sell people things they want and buy things we want. Remember the "they need us" rhetoric? Pick one, you can't have it both ways.
There is about six people in the UK who actually, really, genuinely care about fishing rights aside from the few fishermen remaining who haven't yet sold theirs already. It was a non-story that the country gave precisely zero shits about until someone like Fartage realised it could be spun into a handy bit of propaganda.
Anyone still going "yes but fish" needs to get in the sea themselves.
Couldn’t the boats meet up in no mans land (sic) and just swap catches?
They could have a quick game of footy too.
R4 last night Is Britain Ready for Brexit?
I think that was "Brexit: Is It Oven Ready?"
I've never thought that Brexit was a good idea (to put it politely), but listening to that programme as it listed out the pros and cons, sector by sector, for an hour, or so, I just cannot comprehend why we would do this to ourselves, or why anyone could ever think it's a good idea.
Recommended for an analytical, but listenable summary
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000q0zs
I’m sure they would if it didn’t mean that they’re going to sell less Audi’s/mountain bikes/wood burners etc etc etc as the prices will all shoot up due to WTO tariff rules.
These items and many more will sell just as well as they do now regardless of any tariffs. Of course sales of all goods will be down over the next years due to the impact of brexshit on our economy.
Going back to cars... Will everyone be buying UK built Nissans instead? Don't think so.
Then there is the fable of not following EU standards, well if you want to sell Europe you do.. The company I work for sell 60% of their product into Europe. The company have just opened a manufacturing plant in Poland. Just in general conversation around the UK premises, I would say the vast majority of the work force voted to lose their jobs...
Recommended for an analytical, but listenable summary
I really can't listen to this kind of shit anymore. I only look at cuddly animals (oh and mountain bike videos) on youtube these days otherwise I would spontaneously combust out of anger.
"appease a tiny minority", I thought that's what most modern issues are about nowadays. God, (your favoured diety/personal belief) forbid anything else.🤔
sorry about the link but here's a fable and a half
Didn't Gove say last week to paraphrase "there's no reason we can't be like Norway" ? I can think of quite a few most of them red lines from your good selves
Brexit is a religion**, when you look at it through that prism it makes sense and it's why facts are irrelevant.
Unfashionably,I have nothing against religion, it's just that unquestioning "belief" is a common trait shared with Brexit.
I do think the government is in a pickle with this. I also think you all know I disagree strongly with Brexshit.
However, I would say for the 'small minority', particularly as many fishing boats are in rural and poorer areas, the loss of fishing/fish to boats from the continent will decimate some of those communities.
As an optimist I do think that we should eat far more of our own coastal harvest in the UK, and perhaps as the beach hut selling to the public has shown, entrepreneurs will change the market.
My issue is that the government is fighting for an industry and that seems to not be fit for purpose, economically or environmentally. It's got echoes of 1970/1980's UK coal about it...
Would it not be better to just agree our waters are ours and work to support change in the industry?
Again - Johnsons cabal have never had any intention of getting a deal. Its all been about trying to give the EU the blame for no deal.
This weekends talks between von der Leyen and Johnson is hardly an equal contest is it?
the loss of fishing/fish to boats from the continent will decimate some of those communities.
This happened decades ago. the problems with Johnson stance on fishing are myriad
Most UK catch is sold in the EU. Much of the UK catch is actually caught by EU trawlers using UK quotas that were sold to them. Previous governments also traded away quotas. We do not have the fleet or the skilled people to increase our catch. What Johnson wants is against international law of the seas.
U.K. fishing is a 1.5bn total industry - that’s 0.12% of our GDP. I work for a U.K. based company that spends three times that amount on research each year. That’s for perspective.
And I like mackerel, but a 1000 tonnes!
And unsmoked haddock is just white mush that tastes of nothing
What in <insert deity of choice here> are you doing to it to make haddock mushy? Cooked properly it's a firm flakey fish, cod is also one that goes mushy if it's overdone, flakes are much smaller though.
Will everyone be buying UK built Nissans instead?
Speaking of Nissan, at the Sunderland plant, they make cylinder heads - none of them are used at Sunderland. They all get shipped to France, Spain and some place where Dacias are made.
Engines are brought in from France and Japan
I love fresh seafood - a taste I acquired sailing around the coast of the UK, Ireland and Brittany in the 80s aboard converted fishing boats. I also saw first hand what decades of over-fishing had done to the industry.
The problems are that many have a romantic notion of the fisherman going out in the early morning to haul a few nets and be back by lunchtime.
The reality is that modern pelagic boats that represent the bulk of the UK quota are hyper-efficient, industrial units design to plunder the sea and destroy all fish in their wake. Juvenile fish and 'bycatch' are killed and simply thrown back - it is not sustainable. Even more bizarre is that the majority of the UK catch of mackerel and herring isn't sold for human but to be processed into pet food and fertiliser.
The majority of UK fishing licenses are held by a handful of operators who get rich on the proceeds whilst the rest of our coastal fishing community is scratching a living - Banff and Buckie aren't exactly thriving on the proceeds. What is completely absurd, like the whole of Brexit, is that we're staking the future prosperity of the country for literally a handful of people.
I do think the government is in a pickle with this. I also think you all know I disagree strongly with Brexshit.
I recall you starting a thread, stating that you weren't really sure. Ended up quite a long thread..... 😆
However, I would say for the ‘small minority’, particularly as many fishing boats are in rural and poorer areas, the loss of fishing/fish to boats from the continent will decimate some of those communities.
Losing a tenth of a small community compared with what proportion of some of the other industries that will vanish overseas? Sounds a reasonable tradeoff.
I call Weymouth home. I get fresh fish down at the harbour occasionally. I never seldom eat fish up in Oxford as it is never the same.
I'll be sad if the fishing goes. But to be honest its not t0o different to bemoaning the passing of gas-lighters or shepherdesses.
God, (your favoured diety/personal belief) forbid anything else.🤔
Spent a while there trying to work out what the heck this had to do with eating less...
Eat a lot of lobster, do you?
This sort of narrative had been the root of the problem all along. We get an anecdote like this and the Daily Express gets the gammons into a frot with sensationalist headlines like “JOHNNY FOREIGNER IS TAKING OUR CRABS!” when the reality of the matter is, we don’t want them. If we
Um. I think you'll find that he didn't write what you think he wrote. If you look carefully the subject of his last sentence was "we" not johnny foreigner.
Brexit is a religion**, when you look at it through that prism it makes sense and it’s why facts are irrelevant.
yep....
Malcolm Tucker: 'Brexit is like committing suicide by walking into a door over and over again'
'It's a f****** death cult'
Will everyone be buying UK built Nissans instead?
NOpe because the plant is going to close post brexit
bemoaning the passing of gas-lighters or shepherdesses.
Can't help you with the gas lighters but still plenty of shepherdesses, four within mtb range of here:
Nissan won't close the Washington plant.
6,000 directly employed there; 27,000 in the UK supply chain with 75% of them in north east.
Govt will do whatever it takes to keep the plant open; loss of those jobs in a geographically concentrated area will cost them at the ballot box in their newly won seats.
If Nissan threaten closure the response will be...tell us what it will take to stay and we'll do it for you - subsidies, grants, tax breaks and more.
They have already said they will have to if the is any supply issues and they will do so. In a year it will be shut because it will be simply unviable. Its already lost investment in new models IIRC
Govt will do whatever it takes to keep the plant open
It won't and isn't. It would need to agree to a level playing field with the EU and honour it. That is the current sticking point in negotiations. No deal means tarifs which condemn the plant long term and a deal means no subsidies without which Renault Nissan will dump it sooner or later because it has cheaper plants. Being part of the EU club was really quite useful.
In the event of no deal the UK Govt can do whatever they want.
As Renault control >40% of voting rights in Nissan, I would be surprised if the French govt don't have a view and haven't made that view known to the company.
Also it is much much cheaper for Nissan to close the UK plant than the french one due to our pathetic labour protections
Nissan won’t close the Washington plant.
6,000 directly employed there; 27,000 in the UK supply chain with 75% of them in north east.
Govt will do whatever it takes to keep the plant open; loss of those jobs in a geographically concentrated area will cost them at the ballot box in their newly won seats.
Doubt it. I suspect they'll just blame the EU and move on. The global car industry is too unstable to overtly support any given factory as their future lives seems to live and die on decisions to make a certain line of cars that comes up every few years. You could pour money into Nissan only for it to be gone in 5 years time. Excessive subsidisation will also likely result in punitive sanctions from the EU - which is allowed under the WTO rules - WTO rules on state aid aren't all that different to the EU ones as I understand it, at least for goods (Services are not considered for WTO rules, so banking/software/research would be OK).
If the Govt bungs Nissan a big subsidy to effectively offset the 10% tariffs they need to create a 'level playing field' to maintain access to the EU market, other countries will cry foul to the WTO and exert punitive sanctions on other UK imports. There's massive over-capacity in European car manufacturing anyway and with EV/hybrids replacing ICE it will simply be a case of letting UK auto manufacturing die a natural death and no further investment.
The notion that this Government or the Conservatives for that matter give a $hit about manufacturing is laughable - they're only interested in privatising public services, selling off / outsourcing chunks to their mates and taking well-paid advisory roles in the future enterprise.
so banking/software/research would be OK
Macron is an ex-banker, he knows what banks get up to and is intent on reforms within the EU to bring more integration and prevent abuses - which he knows are facilitated by the city. He wants to take back control and get European business banking in Europe. The Germans aren't playing ball but I think they increasingly will.
Wow! So many global car industry experts in one thread, clearly holding high up positions within the industry with years of experience to back up their opinions. What is it you do again TJ that qualifies you to speak with such certainty and insight on Nissan and Renault's business?
I read the papers and understand the politics!
Nissan have said any tariffs or non tariff barriers to the movement of parts and built cars over the border will make the plant nonviable. The best case from now is that there will be significant non tariff barriers and thus the plant will be nonviable.
Its also a fact that there is overcapacity in europe in car manufacture and because of the UKs pathetic workers rights its much easier and cheaper to close the UK plant.
Nissan have also already withdrawn some planned investment in the UK plant.
its blindingly obvious the plant will close.