[Closed] 9/11 documentary

For a similar case study...

quick, change the subject.

Nice story jivehoneyjive. Is there any corroboration?

What is your problem with the Bora Bora tunnels ? The CIA fighting the soviets built them for the mujahedeen fighting the soviets . AQ did not exist had not even been thought of at that time . Years later Bin Laden who knew about the tunnels used them when fighting the Americans . What do you find surprising or suspicious in those facts ?

See how he doesn’t like answering direct questions?

‘Quick, look in these tunnels over there! Here’s a pic of two people together’

[img] [/img]

See what I mean?

What is your problem with the Bora Bora tunnels

He doesn’t have a problem with them at all.

Because I’m pretty sure he’s intelligent enough to know that really they are an irrelevance.

But they are a tool that he can use to make statements that make the CIA/USA sound complicit in something they had nothing to do with.

“The CIA paid Osama Bin Laden to build the tunnels”

Sounds like damning evidence against the CIA being part of a terror plot.

If your a complete idiot it does anyway 🙄

It's more due to the link between Operation Cyclone, the CIA, Frank Carlucci, the Carlyle Group and Al Waleed Bin Talal, who is not only alleged to have been involved in the support and funding of Al-Qaeda prior to 9/11, but has recently been arrested in Saudi Arabia, apparently in relation to such matters...

I could wangle in a link between Al Waleed Bin Talal, Rupert Murdoch and the CIA for good measure, but I'll leave that for another day.

Similarly the statement

“The Carlyle Group had extensive business toes with the Bin Laden family”

Apart from the total exaggeration in using the work “extensive” considering the tiny investment the Bin Laden Group had invested in one single Carlyle fund.
$2m which made up [b]0.15%[/b] of the total fund
(Not 1.5% as I miss typed earlier)

But either way, so what ? The Bin Laden Group has investments all over the place, they are a big company.

It also fails to mention that the Bin Laden family had very publicly disowned Osama anyway. And he had nothing whatsoever to do with the Family or the Company at that time.

It's more due to the link between Operation Cyclone, the CIA, Frank Carlucci, the Carlyle Group and Al Waleed Bin Talal

Explain what the links are and what they mean.

With an actual timeline and make some conclusions.

I will bet my arse you can’t/won’t.

Regardless of the size of investment, for George HW Bush to visit the Bin Laden family twice on Carlyle Group matters, they must've had some fairly important business...

Al Waleed Bin Talal, who is not only alleged to have been involved in the support and funding of Al-Qaeda prior to 9/11, [b]but has recently been arrested in Saudi Arabia, apparently in relation to such matters...[/b]

Cite.

Nice story jivehoneyjive. Is there any corroboration?

Guess you're refering to this:

Over the last month, Al Waleed Bin Talal and Bandar Bin Sultan have both reportedly been detained as part of the Saudi Purge; there have also been suggestions of further investigation into the Al-Yamamah deal

Still no word on Turki Bin Faisal though...

Feathered Cocaine

With some of the richest and most powerful men in the world visiting these falconry camps, the camps also attract some of the world’s most undesirable — like weapons smuggler and the inspiration for the movie, Lord of War, Viktor Bout, who was frequently a guest at royal falconry camps. [b]But the most infamous guest was Osama bin Laden, who, for many years, made annual visits to the royal falconry camps in both Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates during a time when he was already wanted around the world for mass murder. Former Saudi Ambassador, Prince Turki bin Faisal hunted with bin Laden often, and bin Laden was a VIP guest at the falconry camp organized by the former foreign minister from the U.A.E. bin Laden was so involved in falconry during the ‘90s and 2000s, that during the time he lived in Kandahar, Afghanistan, he stole most of the falcons from the surrounding tribes for his own personal use, giving the best birds as gifts to royal sheiks in the Emirates, and princes in Saudi Arabia.[/b]

Not forgetting of course that it was Turki bin Faisal's sister (Bandar Bin Sultan's wife) who was involved in money finding it's way from the Riggs account set up by the UK paymaster general to the hijackers support network.

Though it's not a direct mention of the falconry camps, there is this [url= http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,480226,00.html ]Time Article[/url]:

Yet when Zubaydah was confronted by the false Saudis, writes Posner, "his reaction was not fear, but utter relief."[b] Happy to see them, he reeled off telephone numbers for a senior member of the royal family who would, said Zubaydah, "tell you what to do." [/b]The man at the other end would be Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul Aziz, a Westernized nephew of King Fahd's and a publisher better known as a racehorse owner. His horse War Emblem won the Kentucky Derby in 2002. [b]To the amazement of the U.S., the numbers proved valid.[/b]

[b]Zubaydah, writes Posner, said the Saudi connection ran through Prince Turki al-Faisal bin Abdul Aziz, the kingdom's longtime intelligence chief.[/b] Zubaydah said bin Laden "personally" told him of a 1991 meeting at which Turki agreed to let bin Laden leave Saudi Arabia and to provide him with secret funds as long as al-Qaeda refrained from promoting jihad in the kingdom.

Zubaydah said he attended a third meeting in Kandahar in 1998 with Turki, senior isi agents and Taliban officials. [b]There Turki promised, writes Posner, that "more Saudi aid would flow to the Taliban, and the Saudis would never ask for bin Laden's extradition, so long as al-Qaeda kept its long-standing promise to direct fundamentalism away from the kingdom." In Posner's stark judgment, the Saudis "effectively had (bin Laden) on their payroll since the start of the decade." Zubaydah told the interrogators that the Saudis regularly sent the funds through three royal-prince intermediaries he named.[/b]

Posner told TIME he got the details of Zubaydah's interrogation and revelations from a U.S. official outside the cia at a "very senior Executive Branch level" whose name we would probably know if he told it to us. He did not. The second source, Posner said, was from the cia, and he gave what Posner viewed as general confirmation of the story

There's another unanswered question. If Turki and Mir were cutting deals with bin Laden, were they acting at the behest of their governments or on their own? [b]Posner avoids any direct statement, but the book implies that they were doing official, if covert, business.[/b]

(To clarify, that's the same Turki Bin Faisal... his full name is actually [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turki_bin_Faisal_Al_Saud ]Turki bin Faisal bin Abdulaziz Al Saud [/url])

What about the Tunnels of Gibraltar?

They were built to fight the Spanish, then the French.

They were then used in WW2 against Hitler.

Here's a picture of Hitler and Franco.

[img] ?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=0c97985f534c05ff1edc6dbf0b4d343f[/img]

Hitler wanted an European Superstate. Something like a very efficient but evil EU.

George Orwell fought in the Spanish Civil War and dies at only 47. After writing 1984 on the island of Jura.

Orwell and Churchill both spent a lot of time at the BBC.

[img] [/img]

We all know about the BBC.

the tunnels were extended in the Cold War, in response from aggression from the Warsaw Pact.

The Warsaw Pact had member countries that are now EU States, who are pissed off with the Brexit vote, however, only 4% on Gib voted for Brexit.

What is Jura famous for? Whiskey. Just think what damage could be done to their export market by Brexit.

Who's the winner? The Spanish Orujo producers and their Grappa friends in Italy.

But do your own research.

#makesyouthink

Now we are actually on to something Churchill was a supporter of a United Sates of Europe!

And JHJ is quoting a guy who doesn’t believe that 9/11 was a false flag operation or US conspiracy,

Anyway, back on topic

Serious question. You're in a minority of one here. Why do you think that no one subscribes to your position or gives any weight to your evidence?

If anyone feels that there’s been new evidence or facts presented by JHJ that suggest any collusion between the US, Saudi and bin laden in relation to the planning on 9/11 then do speak up

Well I guess must be really thick, because after all this evidence I'm still not able to see how any of this stuff links to a 9/11 conspiracy.

From reading jives links , there were some connections between the Saudi Arabian Bin Laden and Saudi Arabia, some Saudis gave money to Bin Laden to secure a non aggression pact ie keep AQ out of Saudi Arabia. some Saudis may have known AQ were up to something big before 9/11 but not what so couldn't/didn't give a warning in advance and kept shtum afterwards. So no actual conspiracy other than the well known terrorist one, and nothing that people haven't always assumed. In other news I'm starting to believe the pope is actually a catholic.

That's what THEY want you to think.

Good bit of brain storming if you ask me... learnt plenty of shizz I didn't know before today 😉

We have more for you... 🙂

Well I guess must be really thick, because after all this evidence I'm still not able to see how any of this stuff links to a 9/11 conspiracy.

Either the CIA plays amazingly long and subtle games to no obvious effect, or their actions in the short term sometimes have unintended consequences later.

To really understand what happened you need to properly look at Bin Laden’s role. The obvious example here is of course, iron man 3. It’s well known that an episode of the 1990’s animated series contained a plot suspiciously similar to that of 9/11 which leads us to the question ‘what did they already know at this point?’

To answer that you need to look at the trifecta, but more about that later.

But firstly, we need to talk about the tunnels of tora bora again and bin laden suddenly being able to complete such complex structures on his own, outside help is the only plausible answer.

Coincidence? I don’t think so

So, back on topic with iron man 3.

The parallels between the mandarin and bin laden are obvious. And shows why he wasn’t captured alive, after all someone who was in the pay of the west for his entire career couldn’t be trusted with such a big secret.

Finally, and the most chilling part has to be the technical manipulation of our media. After all. If bin laden had been part of a US conspiracy why not reveal it and cause greater damage? That he didn’t can only point to one thing, he was a british stage actor.

Makes you think

Jive, just as a sort of social experiment.

Have you ever worked in a large Corporate organisation/entity, like a council or bank that employs 1000's of people?

My theory is that if you've ever worked in that environment, the understanding that the sort of drive, cohesion, efficiency, long term vision required for any sort of group conspiracy such as would be demanded of the CIA over a 30 + year project to arrive at the point where you move people around the world like chess pieces in order to (say) direct catastrophic terrorist events, just is not possible. the staff churn, the difference visions in command, the day to day variables, the internecine department warfare, the politics just make that sort of thing fundamentally impossible. And it's no really good enough to say "oh, but this is the CIA" they've shown over and over again how inefficient, disorganised and just plain wrong they are on a huge scale.

If you've worked in that environment, you realise very quickly how astonishing it is that just the day job gets done (and only then sometimes by the skin of their teeth)

The Bin Laden Group has investments all over the place

My cousins husband lives out that way and sells goods to the Bin Laden family, does this mean I am now linked to 9/11?

oikeith - Member

My cousins husband lives out that way and sells goods to the Bin Laden family, does this mean I am now linked to 9/11?

Not only that, but now [i]we're[/i] all linked to 9/11.

Makes you think...

Jive, just as a sort of social experiment.

Have you ever worked in a large Corporate organisation/entity, like a council or bank that employs 1000's of people?

Well, I used to work for the MOD at a missile test range... People would come from all over the world to test their weaponry with state of the art equipment and tracking radars. During the time I was there, there was a lot of farting about rebranding and splitting away from the MOD, until it became Qinetiq. (Which coincidentally was taken on board by the Carlyle Group) Nonetheless, the hands on work carried on unimpeded. The base is now at the forefront of the drone industry.

On a larger scale, the MOD has bases and personnel over the world, supported by a wealth of extremely complex equipment, which requires extensive amounts of fuel and consumables to run and maintain. (For example, the Pentagon and it's global operations are the largest single consumer of fossil fuels on the planet)

Human resources and equipment are delegated to strategies planned over decades by the permanent staff in Whitehall and via the larger NATO network, outside of the democratic process of parliament.

Another example is when I worked for Transco... once again, it was a time when there was several rebranding exercises, in an attempt to break down the monopolies enjoyed by British Gas. Whilst this did lead to a lot of sillines, nonetheless, the gas kept flowing and the network kept expanding.

[img] [/img]

The infrastructure is such that gas can be supplied from as far afield as Afghanistan, Iraq or Northern Siberia.

Though now and again there will be maintenance issues, for the most part, once the network is in place, it can run itself, with minimal support.

Now where were we anyway... something to do with the CIA and Al-Qaeda perhaps?

Not only that, but now we're all linked to 9/11.

Which coincidentally was taken on board by the Carlyle Group

Oh. So you [b]do[/b] know what a coincidence is.

Well, I used to work for the MOD at a missile test range...

In that case you will fully understand the limitations of a large government organisation.

They couldn't organise the proverbial piss up in a brewery. I worked for the MoD for 8 years and was amazed at the level of incompetence and buffoonery.If our defense organisations are efficient I would hate to see the shit ones.

Don't start me on Qinetiq and their ( unwitting ? ) Chinese export sideline

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/05/defense-contractor-pwned-for-years-by-chinese-hackers/

Well you say that, but somehow vastly complex aircraft carriers get built, with materials and suppliers sourced from around the world, then once they become operational, staff are recruited, trained and put on duty, working as part of a larger team spanning the globe.

The people involved are all fed, dressed in uniform and paid etc etc.

All fuelling requirements of the ships and planes are taken care of, in addition to maintenance and consumables, be that hydraulic fluid, an engine part or a cruise missile.

That kind of thing can't happen without some degree of organization...

Aberporth, Manorbier or Benbecula, jhj?

That kind of thing can't happen without some degree of organization...

so, let me get this straight: In your mind there's little of no difference from people coming together to build a thing. To establishing a totally secret quasi governmental militarily capable extra judicial organisation that has a 30 year plus programme to destabilise the middle east and the USA in order to enrich an already vastly wealthy teeny group of American and Arab businessmen?

Is that about right..?

Well you say that, but somehow vastly complex aircraft carriers get built,

They haven't finished the 1st one yet and it has no aircraft.

with materials and suppliers sourced from around the world,

I routinely order a wide variety of items for my home and hobbies from International suppliers. It's not difficult.

once they become operational,

Only they're not operational yet.

The people involved are all fed, dressed in uniform and paid etc etc.

So are the staff in my local Asda. Did they bring down WTC7 or do they have peado rings?

That kind of thing can't happen without some degree of organization...

You're right, it can't. However, to suggest it's the same level of organisation that would be required for your conspiracies, is another matter entirely.

Have a look at the number of ships Carnival Corporation operate, their Global reach, they own shipyards, they design state of the art vessels, not as complex as a carrier but in huge numbers with absolutely thousands of crew. All trained, fed, dressed, paid, transported etc on a scale way beyond the RN has to deal with.

Are they part of these conspiracies as well?

Aberporth, Manorbier or Benbecula, jhj?

Aberporth Ned... wanted to get into engineering because of mountain biking funnily enough, was one of the few local(ish) opportunities of an apprenticeship available at the time.

Edit: Is Benbecula the one where SAS were training Mujahideen, or was that another facility in the outer Hebrides?

so, let me get this straight: In your mind there's little of no difference from people coming together to build a thing. To establishing a totally secret quasi governmental militarily capable extra judicial organisation that has a 30 year plus programme to destabilise the middle east and the USA in order to enrich an already vastly wealthy teeny group of American and Arab businessmen?

Why would you arrive at that conclusion on the basis of the facts presented?

gotcha. fun while you were there?

Other question: No idea. why do you think I know?

There was plenty of fun to be had and a lot of good people from all kinds of different backgrounds...

I asked about Benbecula simply because you'd mentioned it, so figured you, or someone else having a peep at the thread might know...

There's multiple accounts of mujahideen fighters being transported to Scotland for training by the SAS.

Probably on account of the similar terrain and climate.

jivehoneyjive - Member

Why would you arrive at that conclusion

Because you don't have the balls to offer your own conclusion, you strange little man. 🙂

Edited to save the mods.

jivehoneyjive - Member

Well, I used to work for the MOD at a missile test range

What brand of tea did you serve? 🙂

I'm perfectly prepared to believe the SAS helped train the mujahedeen, I'd even accept that on occasion they fought alongside them against the Russians in Afghanistan. After all they helped train the Khmer Rouge. But why on earth move the mujahedeen to a base in Scotland to do it when it would be cheaper and more efficient to do it in Afghanistan or a neighbouring area ?
Back on topic jive can you articulately and concisely explain what you think the conspiracy behind 9/11 is without use of links, cut and paste or random photos that juxtapose famous people.

can you articulately and concisely explain what you think the conspiracy behind 9/11 is...

No. He cannot.

Edit, actually can’t be bothered

But why on earth move the mujahedeen to a base in Scotland

simples - obfuscation...

Why would you arrive at that conclusion on the basis of the [s]facts[/s]stuff that I'm trying desperately to link so it looks like a conspiracy of business doing evil things to make money... presented?

because, you little scamp, you know as well as anybody, that once you actually write down a coherent "theory" that ties together all the strands that you've tried to hint at. 1. it sounds like the plot of a bad Bond movie, and 2. it's obviously nonsense.

Have your little fantasy about the new world order by all means, indeed feel free to roll around in the huge swathes of gossip and coincidental tittle-tattle that the web offers, it's just a nerd alternative to the Daily Mail sidebar of shame, and exists to serve the same purpose. It makes your world understandable, I get that. But don't think for a moment that it's anything more than a coping mechanism for modernity.

Obfuscation ? If mujahedeen were detected training in or travelling to Scotland that would make UK invlovment crystal clear. If SAS ie generic western men were detected training mujahedeen in country, that would be unclear and deniable. The world is awash with mercenaries and contractors.

Here's a couple of accounts... there's plenty more out there if you delve deep enough:

[url= http://www.eliteukforces.info/mi6/ ]1980s - Afghanistan[/url]
SIS operatives were active in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation, assisting the Mujahideen resistance. Activities included supplying the anti-Soviet forces with weapons such as anti-tank missiles and anti-aircraft missiles (at first the largely useless British-built Blowpipe SAMs and later the more effective US-built Stingers). Ex SAS/SBS men were also involved in these operations.

Other MI6 operations in Afghanistan included obtaining Soviet military equipment from the battlefield for later analysis.

[b]SIS also arranged for Mujahideen fighters to be trained in heavy weapons on islands off Western Scotland by the SAS Revolutionary Warfare Wing (RWW). The Mujahideen soldiers were shuttled between Scotland and ****stan by a C-130 operated by the RAF S&D flight, a small cadre of RAF special forces pilots that support SIS/Increment operations.[/b]

[b][url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/1546995.stm ]Guerrillas who protect US terror attack suspect Osama bin Laden were trained in Scotland, it has been alleged. [/url]
[/b]
A former member of the SAS told the Sunday Mail newspaper that he helped train Mujahedin fighters at two secret camps in Scotland and another in northern England during the 1980s.

Ken Connor said the training helped to transform the Afghan men into a "fighting unit" that inflicted heavy casualties on Russian forces occupying their country.

Mr Connor said [b]one of the training camps was located in mountains surrounding the Criffel in Dumfries while the other was in the remote Applecross peninsula in the West Highlands.[/b]

He said: "The Mujahedin fighters were already excellent soldiers committed to their cause.

"The main thing they lacked was tactical knowledge and battle planning, so we worked constantly on that.

"Some helicopter training was also arranged for them and they were taught how to attack airfields.

"But the main achievement was to turn them from a disorganised mob into a fighting unit."

[b]Mr Connor said that the Afghan rebels were trained in Scotland in 1983 - four years after the former Soviet Union invaded their country.[/b]

Now aside from the obvious parallels with western support of 'moderate rebels' in Syria and ISIS ideology being based of Wahabist/Salafist beliefs actively spread by Saudi Arabia, where do Turki bin Faisal, Bandar Bin Sultan and Abu Zubaydah fit into all of this?

Do tell.

Oh, and please do so

without use of links, cut and paste or random photos that juxtapose famous people.

Back on topic jive can you articulately and concisely explain what you think the conspiracy behind 9/11 is without use of links, cut and paste or random photo

He can’t and won’t ever do this.

Putting his own thoughts and ideas forward for scrutiny is something Jivebunny is clearly scared of doing.

Which is understandable, as he will not have a hope of defending his nonsense ideas once he actually makes it clear what they are.

Guerrillas who protect US terror attack suspect Osama bin Laden were trained in Scotland, it has been alleged.

see, this is why, yet again, you are full of it

Firstly, it's a single source from the daily mail.

secondly, there is literally no evidence, [u]none[/u] that these individuals were protecting bin laden or even if they were alive. All that is known is that they returned to afghanisatn. The rest of the article is pure conjecture.

And another point, what the hell is this?

http://www.eliteukforces.info/

is it your website? it doesn't even have sources listed, or authors, or even an 'about' page.

Bit like the secret services themselves then eh 😉

I note you didn't answer the question again.

Classified information I'm afraid 8)

Guerrillas who protect US terror attack suspect Osama bin Laden were trained in Scotland, it has been alleged.

Let’s be REALLY generous, and presume this is true.

[b][u]So what if they were ? [/u][/b]

Is the allegation that they trained there recently, in order for them to be able to protect Osama ?

Or as everyone sensible would know, that they were trained a long time ago, under totally different circumstances and for a totally different purpose.

It was the 80’s
They were our allies at the time.

Seriously, how TF do you not get this.

Classified information I'm afraid

no one believes you.

HTH

And yet you believe those who obscure information from you...

(and have a known track record of lying)

Life's probably simpler that way

Likewise JhJ your sources are lying to you.

Stalemate really.

Black with two sugars, please. 🙂

(and have a known track record of lying)
Jive remember when you linked to a faked BBC page that said the Charlie Hebro attacks were a false flag operation? then when the fraud was outed blamed your sources for letting you down?

Yep... I'm as fallible as any, but thankfully, I don't have the raw destructive power of the Pentagon, or Her Majesty's Government(s).

Nor do I provide anyone with Weapons of Mass destruction, before using the idea of Weapons of Mass destruction for an invasion which wreaks horror on people not so different from you and I to this day.

Anyhow, back on topic, due to some of my earlier mistakes, thankfully my facts are more reliable these days:

Now aside from the obvious parallels with western support of 'moderate rebels' in Syria and ISIS ideology being based of Wahabist/Salafist beliefs actively spread by Saudi Arabia, where do Turki bin Faisal, Bandar Bin Sultan and Abu Zubaydah fit into all of this?

Do tell.

Oh, and please do so

without use of links, cut and paste or random photos that juxtapose famous people.

Heaven forbid I provide you with evidence before coming to any conclusions...

Heaven forbid I provide you with evidence

Well you haven't so far, but it's never too late to start.

Just a quick recap...

Over the last month, Al Waleed Bin Talal and Bandar Bin Sultan have both reportedly been detained as part of the Saudi Purge; there have also been suggestions of further investigation into the Al-Yamamah deal

Still no word on Turki Bin Faisal though...

[url= https://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-peak/feathered-cocaine_b_4392859.html ]Feathered Cocaine[/url]

With some of the richest and most powerful men in the world visiting these falconry camps, the camps also attract some of the world’s most undesirable — like weapons smuggler and the inspiration for the movie, Lord of War, Viktor Bout, who was frequently a guest at royal falconry camps. [b]But the most infamous guest was Osama bin Laden, who, for many years, made annual visits to the royal falconry camps in both Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates during a time when he was already wanted around the world for mass murder. Former Saudi Ambassador, Prince Turki bin Faisal hunted with bin Laden often, and bin Laden was a VIP guest at the falconry camp organized by the former foreign minister from the U.A.E. bin Laden was so involved in falconry during the ‘90s and 2000s, that during the time he lived in Kandahar, Afghanistan, he stole most of the falcons from the surrounding tribes for his own personal use, giving the best birds as gifts to royal sheiks in the Emirates, and princes in Saudi Arabia.
[/b]

Not forgetting of course that it was Turki bin Faisal's sister (Bandar Bin Sultan's wife) who was involved in money finding it's way from the Riggs account set up by the UK paymaster general to the hijackers support network.

Though it's not a direct mention of the falconry camps, there is this [url= http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,480226,00.html ]Time Article[/url]:

Yet when Zubaydah was confronted by the false Saudis, writes Posner, "his reaction was not fear, but utter relief."[b] Happy to see them, he reeled off telephone numbers for a senior member of the royal family who would, said Zubaydah, "tell you what to do."[/b] The man at the other end would be Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul Aziz, a Westernized nephew of King Fahd's and a publisher better known as a racehorse owner. His horse War Emblem won the Kentucky Derby in 2002. [b]To the amazement of the U.S., the numbers proved valid. [/b]

[b]Zubaydah, writes Posner, said the Saudi connection ran through Prince Turki al-Faisal bin Abdul Aziz, the kingdom's longtime intelligence chief.[/b] Zubaydah said bin Laden "personally" told him of a 1991 meeting at which Turki agreed to let bin Laden leave Saudi Arabia and to provide him with secret funds as long as al-Qaeda refrained from promoting jihad in the kingdom.

Zubaydah said he attended a third meeting in Kandahar in 1998 with Turki, senior isi agents and Taliban officials. [b]There Turki promised, writes Posner, that "more Saudi aid would flow to the Taliban, and the Saudis would never ask for bin Laden's extradition, so long as al-Qaeda kept its long-standing promise to direct fundamentalism away from the kingdom." In Posner's stark judgment, the Saudis "effectively had (bin Laden) on their payroll since the start of the decade." Zubaydah told the interrogators that the Saudis regularly sent the funds through three royal-prince intermediaries he named. [/b]

Posner told TIME he got the details of Zubaydah's interrogation and revelations from a U.S. official outside the cia at a "very senior Executive Branch level" whose name we would probably know if he told it to us. He did not. The second source, Posner said, was from the cia, and he gave what Posner viewed as general confirmation of the story

There's another unanswered question. If Turki and Mir were cutting deals with bin Laden, were they acting at the behest of their governments or on their own? [b]Posner avoids any direct statement, but the book implies that they were doing official, if covert, business.
[/b]

(To clarify, that's the same Turki Bin Faisal... his full name is actually [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turki_bin_Faisal_Al_Saud ]Turki bin Faisal bin Abdulaziz Al Saud[/url] )

If there's any gaps you need filling in of the details provided within that post, do tell.

If there's any gaps you need filling in of the details provided within that post, do tell.

Nope I'm good.

It's all irrelevant. But I admire your tenacity

Heaven forbid I provide you with evidence before coming to any conclusions...

If there's any gaps you need filling in of the details provided within that post, do tell.

Nope. Ok, no gaps.

Conclusions now please.

I know I've posted this before,....it was ignored...

from 1 min in...

Could someone paint this as perfectly normal? Pretty please?

I call Poes Law

Could someone paint this as perfectly normal? Pretty please?

I think that’s the smoking gun, they told that guy [i]everything[/i], including stuff he didn’t need to know to be a credible witness. Then let him loose.

Sheesh, I feel like my world is crumbling around me

Could someone paint this as perfectly normal? Pretty please?

Ok. Yes is pretty normal (for a day when two massive building were his by planes!)

The Guy called “Psycho” Mark Walsh, he worked for Fox as a freelance reporter at the time and is relatively famous.

He lives where said he lives, he saw what he said he saw. He even filmed it from his living room. This is all verifiable fact if you can bothered to look it up.

The term “Ground Zero” has been around and in widespread use since at least the mid 1940’s

Why is it so strange that he would use it, perfectly correctly, in this scenario ??

And yet you believe those who obscure information from you...

(and have a known track record of lying)

WhathaveIsaidnow what do you find abnormal about the interview ? Obviously other than its about an abnormal event on the day of the event !

WhathaveIsaidnow what do you find abnormal about the interview ? Obviously other than its about an abnormal event on the day of the event !

Mostly due to structural failure because the fire was just too intense.

...that's a very assured guess...

.... the guy in black, with the ear piece moving in and listening intently... to make sure he gets it correct...

ow and he just happened to work for Fox occasionally...

...he is very assured, like he has read this a few times in advance, he doesn't miss a beat, almost sounds excited....

Then he used a term "ground zero" on broadcast TV, that was later picked up and used by others.

any proof?

speculated that the fire had damaged the building structurally

Mostly due to structural failure because the fire was just too intense.

...maybe he should have said 'maybe...'

or....I don't know how the hell they collapsed like that, that is unbelievable...etc...

He lives where said he lives, he saw what he said he saw. He even filmed it from his living room. This is all verifiable fact if you can bothered to look it up

...of course...you don't set up for this and still be in the green room...

He watched a building fall down that is what I'd call structural failure , he could see it was on fire , he said it was due to intense fire . mind you he was not a structural engineer possibly a non crisis actor would have said it was intact and fell over in high winds!
The man in a suit in the business end of new York who you find so exciting how do you read his mind ? How do you know why he is interested in listening to the interview , I would imagine the whole point of interviewing people for TV is that random people will be interested.
Let's accept you are right he is an actor word perfect but not trusted to get it right with a men in black body guard what is the conspiracy's gain from this ?

Then he used a term "ground zero" on broadcast TV, that was later picked up and used by others.
any proof?

Ground Zero isn’t a new term. It’s been in common useage since the 40’s.

(Do you even read what people post?)