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What do you think?Don’t ask him what he thinks. He only deals in “facts” not opinions.
He won’t offer an opinion Ffs.
despite everyone trying to crowbar an opinion out of meAn opinion really shouldn’t be something to be ashamed of.
Unless it’s complete bollocks of course.
In that case, avoid letting anyone know what it is at all costs .
We've already established my opinion...
9/11 was a factual event, with many anomalies and direct links between those involved in supporting the terrorists and those in the highest levels of US and UK government.
Back on topic please, so as to avoid accusations of this kind of behaviour
no doubt many people are scared to speak out because of the venom and disdain aimed at anyone 'foolish' enough to question such things.
Back on topic please, so as to avoid accusations of this kind of behaviour
Don’t talk crap.
I’m asking your opinion about the subject being discussed.
How is that off topic. Ffs.
Did they for example receive nearly as much coverage as announcement of a royal wedding?
Whataboutery
So. Perfectly on topic, as you brought it up.
I’ll ask again. (I’ve put in bold as you seem to have missed it last time.
[b]
[/b]And by the way, what did those 28 pages reveal when they were declassified ?
A massive conspiracy as predicted ??
Can you lot show me the front page news regarding the 28 pages?
I asked first. .
Twice.
Show me what news you can find about the 28 pages (i.e. 'facts') and we'll work from there...
Again.
I asked first.
You’re not very good at this are you.
9/11 was a factual event, with many anomalies and direct links between those involved in supporting the terrorists and those in the highest levels of US and UK government.
Don't be so coy. Tell us who you think did what.
[quote=jivehoneyjive ]Show me what news you can find about the 28 pages (i.e. 'facts') and we'll work from there...
DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH
The pertinent point is not that it did not receive as much coverage as a royal wedding announcement but what it did show which was basically, in lay mans terms, **** all hence your wee dance
TBH I saute those who waste their time pointing out what you are like but its futile you cannot reason people out of an opinion they were not reasoned into
Show me what news you can find about the 28 pages (i.e. 'facts') and we'll work from there...
Without checking I’m assuming it’s that they revealed nothing new, and certainly did nothing to undermine the veracity of the overall document.
Otherwise you’d be all over it with hyperlinks to you tube videos... and that’s not before we talk about Julian Assange.....
Julian Assange is in a building close to Harrods. Which used to be owned by Al Fayed. Who also used to have a statue of Michael Jackson.
I think we all know what that means, don't we.
And by the way, what did those 28 pages reveal when they were declassified ?
A massive conspiracy as predicted ??
I’ve had a little nap.
Still no answer ?
Show links between Saudi ambassador to USA and the terrorists? Show that Bush thought it best to classify these links? Not nothing thats for sure.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/15/911-report-saudi-arabia-28-pages-released ]Guardian article[/url]
Not nothing thats for sure.
Not the massive conspiracy that was predicted either.
So essentially.
Nothing.
Copied from your Guardian link ....
Saudi Arabia also welcomed the decision, hoping it would draw a line under the matter. Its [b]ambassador to the US, Abdullah al-Saud, said:[/b] “Since 2002[b], the 9/11 commission and several government agencies, including the CIA and the FBI, have investigated the contents of the ‘28 pages’ and have confirmed that neither the Saudi government, nor senior Saudi officials, nor any person acting on behalf of the Saudi government provided any support or encouragement for these attacks.[/b]“We hope the release of these pages will clear up, once and for all, any lingering questions or suspicions about Saudi Arabia’s actions, intentions, or long-term friendship with the United States.”
lol
I'll stick with not nothing.
Which is essentially.
Something.
Edited my post to include some detail from the link you supplied.
But you read the rest of the article yes? Not nothing.
Not nothing.
So the 911 Commission, the CIA and the FBI among other government agencies investigated the pages, and ....
...and have confirmed that neither the Saudi government, nor senior Saudi officials, nor any person acting on behalf of the Saudi government provided any support or encouragement for these attacks.
But you still think that there’s “something”
So what is it that they missed and you’ve spotted ?
Your quoting from Saudi's ambassador to the US. Do you believe what they say about Yemen aswell?
Read page 34 of the documents on the guardian article.
Not nothing.
Read page 34 of the documents on the guardian article.
Why do people do that? You have copy and paste facilities wherever it is you're posting from, right?
lol get over yourself
Here is the link- copying and pasting the document is beyond my capabilities. Pg 32,33,34 worth looking at.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/15/911-report-saudi-arabia-28-pages-released ]Guardian article[/url]
That's a link to a 1 page article, no?
It contains the declassified papers in a pdf ish format halfway down.
Bugger it I'll type some out
(pg32) With regard to the specific question of have we seen Saudi intelligence services supporting terror groups, I think the record is not clear at all on that.Both the FBI and CIA have recognised the possibility that individuals connected to the Saudi Government may be providing support to terrorists.
pg33. To date I cant tell you...that the Saudi Royal Family is sponsoring terrorism but there's enough smoke that we are conducting several investigations to try and determine whats out there
I've only read the last few pages, I was just flicking through reading round some of the bits that are still redacted.
TBH. It wouldnt surprise me if the Saudi royal family had an involvement in Financing terrorism. Not one bit. I couldn’t tell you if it was part of the 2000 strong inner circle or the remaining 13000 though.
However, that really has nothing to do with the various debunked conspiracy theories thrown up involving the US
Although you keep forgetting about Julian Assange here......
Saudi Royal Family!
Saudi Ambassador!!
Takes us back to this...
who can guess who one of George W Bush's earliest advisors on Foreign Policy was, before he even ran for president...
It's a bit like being an unknowing participant in the Turing test.
"Ah Saudi Ambassador you are really spoiling us"
On a side note, have you ever noticed how 'massage parlors' often have ambassador in the name...
Takes on a whole new meaning when considering the inherent links between the diplomatic services, embassies and the intelligence services.
Brings to mind that whole hidden camera/blackmail thing.
You do know that James Bond films aren't documentary, right?
On a side note, have you ever noticed how 'massage parlors' often have ambassador in the name...Takes on a whole new meaning when considering the inherent links between the diplomatic services, embassies and the intelligence services.
Mmm...
... no, no it doesn't. How many massage parlours actually have ambassador in the title, as a matter of interest?
seriously, Julian Assange is the key here, I can't believe jive has missed that.
Make's you think
On a side note, have you ever noticed how 'massage parlors' often have ambassador in the name...
No.
Please elaborate, with examples.
Takes on a whole new meaning when considering ....
There is no “meaning” in the first place.
So how can there be a “whole new meaning”
....the inherent links between the diplomatic services, embassies and the intelligence services.
This sentence literally means nothing.
It sounds like it [i]might[/i] mean something. But it doesn’t.
On a side note, have you ever noticed how 'massage parlors' often have ambassador in the name...
Because obviously if a load of hookers were nefariously involved with the Diplomatic Corp the first thing both parties would want is to rename brothels to provide a blatent clue! 🙂
Much like the Elm Guest House where we're told a load of the great and good were attending peado parties. The evidence was someone's memory of a conveniently lost guest book. As though cabinet ministers attending highly criminal activities would be [b]writing their names in a guest book[/b]!
I bow to your expertise in the area.On a side note, have you ever noticed how 'massage parlors' often have ambassador in the name..
Having being a rickshaw rider in both London (Soho) and Edinburgh, you tend to know about these things, truth be told, it's normally the Irish blokes who request you take them to a brothel... whether that is something to do with a Catholic upbringing, I couldn't say.
Prior to being a rickshaw rider, when I lived in Roath in Cardiff, a trip to the Spar on City Road would take you past the Ambassador suite.
Anyhoo, that's going a bit off topic really, though this is of course relevant...
the inherent links between the diplomatic services, embassies and the intelligence services.
So, any advances on this small matter?
who can guess who one of George W Bush's earliest advisors on Foreign Policy was, before he even ran for president...
Why would someone who isn’t running for President even need a foreign policy, never mind a foreign policy advisor ?
who can guess who one of George W Bush's earliest advisors on Foreign Policy was, before he even ran for president...
You already know and are just aching to sound all clever and tell everyone, so WGAS about guessing?
Bored now.
So, any advances on this small matter?
Unfortunately the person who said it wont say what they mean
Unfortunately jive is missing the huge elephant in the room here
Prior to being a rickshaw rider, when I lived in Roath in Cardiff, a trip to the Spar on City Road would take you past the Ambassador suite.
That's it? That's ******* it? On the back of one massage parlour in Cardiff you've extrapolated a link between massage parlours amd the diplomatic corps? Consider my wheels spun.
On the back of one massage parlour in Cardiff you've extrapolated a link between massage parlours amd the diplomatic corps?
It's the most believable link he's ever posted.
No you numbnut, there was Ambassador's Sauna on Lothian Road in Edinburgh and Ambassador's club in a basement just off Oxford Street near the American Embassy.
Anyhoo, that's enough clues...
You've already had your last clue and there's actually 34 of them as it stands... you won't have to read between the lines in this instance.
Anyhoo, that's enough clues...
Aaa, that's where I was going wrong - I thought we were having a debate, not playing Guess Who.
Ah fuggit, the answer to:
who one of George W Bush's earliest advisors on Foreign Policy was, before he even ran for president
it is none other than Bandar Bin Muthaflippin' Sultan...
[url= http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=afall97bandargwbush#afall97bandargwbush ]
Fall 1997: Former President Bush Calls on Saudi Prince Bandar to Educate His Son on Foreign Affairs[/url]
Former President George H. W. Bush calls on his longtime friend, Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and asks him to meet with his son, Texas Governor George W. Bush. His son has an important decision to make, the elder Bush tells Bandar, and needs the prince’s advice.Bandar flies to Austin, Texas, planning on using a visit to a Dallas Cowboys game as a “cover” for his visit. He lands in Austin, and is surprised when Governor Bush boards the plane before Bandar can disembark.
Bush comes straight to the point: he is considering a run for the presidency, and though he already knows what his domestic agenda will be, says, “I don’t have the foggiest idea about what I think about international, foreign policy.”
Bandar runs through his experiences with various world leaders, including the USSR’s Mikhail Gorbachev, Britain’s Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair, the Pope, and former US President Ronald Reagan.
Finally, Bush says, “There are people who are your enemies in this country who also think my dad is your enemy.” Bandar knows Bush is speaking of US supporters of Israel, and wants to know how he should handle the Israeli-Jewish lobby as well as the neoconservatives who loathe both the Saudis and the elder Bush.
Bandar replies: “Can I give you one advice?… If you tell me that [you want to be president], I want to tell you one thing. To hell with Saudi Arabia or who likes Saudi Arabia or who doesn’t, who likes Bandar or who doesn’t. Anyone who you think hates your dad or your friend who can be important to make a difference in winning, swallow your pride and make friends of them. And I can help you. I can help you out and complain about you, make sure they understand that, and that will make sure they help you.”
Bandar’s message is clear: if Bush needs the neoconservatives to help him win the presidency, then he should do what it takes to get them on his side.
“Never mind if you really want to be honest,” Bandar continues. “This is not a confession booth.… In the big boys’ game, it’s cutthroat, it’s bloody and it’s not pleasant.”
[url= https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fall-House-Bush-Believers-Executive/dp/0743568273 ]Source[/url]
You know, this Bandar Bin Sultan:
[img] 
[/img]
The very same Saudi Ambassador mentioned in the 28 pages for multiple payments that found their way to the hijackers via the Rigg's Bank account set up for him by the UK Paymaster General, for transfer of funds relating to the Al-Yamamah deal...
[img] 
[/img]
Just don't mention Abu Zubaydah
Ach, turns out it wasn’t worth the wait.
Did you check out Julian Assange yet?
The website is a tool for open-content participatory journalism.
I wouldn't have been so quick to condem if I'd known it was based on something as solid as what people think.
I do love it when he answers his own questions
i wonder if anyone reads them [ nit me anyway]
I've been reading up on this...
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cognitive_infiltration
Generally it starts with name calling...deriding...etc IMHO...
p.s. edited 🙂
it is none other than Bandar Bin Muthaflippin' Sultan.
Ok. So who actually wrote that account of their meeting ?
Seems like someone that was actually in the room with them, it’s so detailed.
That's a fair and objective point...
Bit more background since you're too lazy to click the source link I've provided 😉
Craig Unger knows how to get the big story and this one is his most explosive yet. Through scores of interviews with figures in the Christian Right, the neoconservative movement, the Bush administration, and sources close to the Bush family, as well as intelligence agents in the CIA, the Pentagon, and Israel, Unger has assembled the most comprehensive, provocative, and dramatic account of how and why George W. Bush took America to war in Iraq.
So he wasn’t there then? Or was he?
It’s written as if he was there in the room listening to the conversation.
If he wasn’t there, then who was?
Who gave him such specific conversational details?
Why don't you ask incisive questions like this when you're fobbed off with bullshit from Saudi Ambassadors?
Why don't you ask incisive questions like this
Why don’t you answer them instead of deflecting.
Already answered...
Bear in mind it's standard procedure for journalists not to burn their sources.
Especially when those sources are full of shit.
Nick/Exaro
oooh nice work by some [b]experts[/b]...
http://ine.uaf.edu/projects/wtc7/
awaiting this report with eagerness,...well..if it ever gets to see the light of day of course.
Nick/Exaro
Interesting you should choose that example, why would you think it ties in with 9/11?
Worth noting that Nicholas Soames, who was instrumental behind the scenes in putting pressure on Operation Midland is chairman of Aegis Defence Services, who profited massively from the invasions of both Afghanistan and Iraq.
Do you know who Robert Baer is?Yes. I've met him, along with many in the intelligence world.
Small world 😉
jivehoneyjive - Membertruth be told
That explains it.
Lay off the weed you paranoid looney.
ETA: nudge, 😉 , masonic tickle et cetera.
Worth noting that Nicholas Soames, who was instrumental behind the scenes in putting pressure on Operation Midland is chairman of Aegis Defence Services, who profited massively from the invasions of both Afghanistan and Iraq.
Wow, That’s a new level of paranoia and made up nonsense from you.
And another bizarre attempt to link completely unrelated stories.
We’re still waiting for a single fact that that proves a 9/11 conspiracy though. How’s that for on topic?
Well they're not completely unrelated... both Leon Brittan and Edwin Bramall were involved in the Al-Yamamah deal.
There's also the mysterious payments received by [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Soames ]Nicholas Soames[/url] from Marsh and McLennan.
US multinational professional services, risk management and insurance brokerage firm Marsh & McLennan Companies Inc has given Soames £518,069 since 2010 in remunerations for his services as an MP.
At the time of the September 11 attacks in the United States in 2001, the corporation held offices on eight floors of the North Tower of the World Trade Center, from 93 to 100. When American Airlines Flight 11 crashed into the building, their offices spanned the entire impact zone, from floors 93 to 99.
Marsh and Mclennan also takes us back to the Iraq [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_Provisional_Authority ]Coalition Provisional Authority[/url] and it's leader [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bremer ]L Paul Bremer[/url].
Bremer retired from the Foreign Service in 1989 and became managing director at Kissinger and Associates, a worldwide consulting firm founded by Henry Kissinger. A Career Member of the Senior Foreign Service, Class of Career Minister, Bremer received the State Department Superior Honor Award, two Presidential Meritorious Service Awards, and the Distinguished Honor Award from the Secretary of State. Before rejoining government in 2003, he was chairman and CEO of Marsh Crisis Consulting, a risk and insurance services firm which is a subsidiary of Marsh & McLennan Companies.
Bremer and 1,700 of the employees of Marsh & McLennan had offices in the World Trade Center. Bremer's office was in the North Tower. In an interview with CNN after the September 11 attacks, he stated that their office was located "above where the second aircraft hit".
Do his ties to Kissinger and nano thermite prove a conspiracy?
Nope, but they certainly raise questions.
So he wasn’t there then? Or was he?It’s written as if he was there in the room listening to the conversation.
If he wasn’t there, then who was?
Who gave him such specific conversational details?
Already answered...
No you haven’t.
I’ll help shall I ....
So he wasn’t there then? Or was he? [b] - No he wasn’t there[/b]
It’s written as if he was there in the room listening to the conversation. [b] - I know. But he wasn’t there. [/b]
If he wasn’t there, then who was?[b] - No idea I’m afraid. [/b]
Who gave him such specific conversational details? [b] - Not a clue, but he wrote it down on a website, so I just presumed it was true because it fits with what I already believe. [/b]
but they certainly raise questions.
really? what questions?
He wrote it down in a book... The book provided in the source link from the word go.
Don't get antsy cos you're lazy.
why are you two expecting credible answers from him is the main one 😉
really? what questions?
read all the facts presented again...
Any questions?
He wrote it down in a book... The book provided in the source link from the word go.
That’s not adding any kind of credibility.
It’s just somewhere else that he wrote down the same stuff without any evidence that it’s true.
It’s like dealing with people who tell you “facts” about secret societies based on a reading Dan Brown book
🙄
why George W. Bush took America to war in Iraq.
JHJ is this it in a nutshell? you think George Bush orchestrated the 9/11 attacks so he could invade Iraq and make money for him and his buddies?
Although this doesnt tie in with the other people you have mentioned like the CIA agent who claims he could have stopped it or someone that worked in one of the towers after retiring from the FBI...
At the time of the September 11 attacks in the United States in 2001, the corporation held offices on eight floors of the North Tower of the World Trade Center, from 93 to 100. When American Airlines Flight 11 crashed into the building, their offices spanned the entire impact zone, from floors 93 to 99.
Oh well then, there it is, the smoking gun!!
He wrote it down in a book... The book provided in the source link from the word go
circular argument, plus the olly Murrs defence.
This is more damp squib than thermite, it's really poor.
And you still haven't looked into Julian Assange, why is that?
And you still haven't looked into Julian Assange, why is that?
Tinted windows at the Embassy ?
🙂
JHJ knows why
Don’t play his game and keep repeating the same question before quoting yourself and giving the answer. 😉
What’s the reason.
well, you know that Julian Assange. Before he took to hiding in his bedroom like most conspiracy theorists,had some credence, as did wikileaks. They unearthed some pretty [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/wikileaks-greatest-ever-stories-scandals/ ]interesting[/url] stories and cover ups.
However, Julian & by extension wikileaks have pretty much let down the truthers on the 9/11 front, so much so that he was quoted saying
[i]“I’m constantly annoyed that people are distracted by false conspiracies such as 9/11, when all around we provide [b]evidence[/b] of real conspiracies, for war or mass financial fraud.” [/i] (my bold)
This puts truthers in a dilemma, so much so that they now resort to claiming that wikileaks are a CIA fronted organization dedicated to misinformation and hiding the real truth. (via a million nonsense you tube videos of course)
You have to ask yourself this, based on what you know about Julian Assange and wikileaks, if he had any evidence that 9/11 was a conspiracy, what would he do with it? and therefore what does the fact that they haven't, and don't believe it was a conspiracy tell us?
to be fair those massage girls do deserve a little privacyTinted windows at the Embassy ?
so much so that they now resort to claiming that wikileaks are a CIA fronted organization dedicated to misinformation and hiding the real truth
Indeed, and the recent revelations that wikileaks been outed as a "useful idiot" for Russian hacking means that pretty much anything the Russians had on 9/11 would have been fed to him also. And yet...
It certainly .... erm.
Makes you think 
JHJ is this it in a nutshell? you think George Bush orchestrated the 9/11 attacks so he could invade Iraq and make money for him and his buddies?Although this doesnt tie in with the other people you have mentioned like the CIA agent who claims he could have stopped it or someone that worked in one of the towers after retiring from the FBI...
That's a possible motive for aiding and abetting Bandar... however, we also have to take into account diplomatic immunity.
Sounds silly, but it brings to mind 'Lethal Weapon 2', where there's all the South African Diplomats up to no good and when the police come, they can't do squat, so they need an unhinged looney in the shape of Mel Gibson to save the day. A bit of a shame that Patsy Kensit died, but they'd both be dead if the dog hadn't saved them...
Some say that diplomatic immunity is basically so spies can do well dodgy shit, without being accountable to the law.
Bit like shell companies and offshore tax havens...
As for the wikileaks angle, you have to bear in mind that often, the intelligence services will sub-contract, with no tangible links. Hence there's no trace left in diplomatic cables.
Look into at Brian Crozier's 'the 61' (6I) (linked to Le Cercle (Pinay Circle)) to get an insight into the world of dodgy dealings with no paper trail.
Whilst you're at it, don't forget The Safari Club, the BCCI and Crozier's meetings with Turki Bin Faisal Al Saud, the head of Saudi Intelligence until 10 days before 9/11.
That's why there's so many private security and military contractors... they can do all kinds of nasty shit with far less accountability than official government agencies.
Few examples...
Aegis Defence Services (Sandline International)
Kroll
Stratesec (Securacom)
Academi (Blackwater)
ArmorGroup
G4S
Black Cube
They're the kind of firms who carry out the dirty work...