£800 million subsidy to tata for JLR battery factory

Wherever they built the plant they'd be receiving a subsidy from the relevant countries government - so it may as well be from our government.

Money well spent If only for the jobs alone, I still want this government out.

It's a tough one, if they'd built it in Ireland it wouldn't be a "subsidy", it would just be lower corporation tax.

So yes the government is giving a tax break to a multibillion pound multinational corporation.

On the other hand, unlike starbucks avoiding paying corporation tax it's not competing with anyone, there isn't an alternative coffee shop paying it's fair shar of corporation tax. It's 100% "new" jobs, so any tax, is <0.

So the zero sum isn't this:

To my mind it proves there is money to be spent if there is political will. Let’s see look forward to similar sums being spent in other areas…

It's would you rather there was more tax paid overall and therefore you got incrementally more public services (or lower taxes) as a result. Or would you cut your nose off to spite your face and not have those jobs/tax at all because you see it as fair?

That is unless you get into a scenario where the number of jobs outnumbers the workforce, at which point you can start making it more expensive to do business (raise wages, give workers rights, increase taxes).

Wasn't the ability to give massive state subsidies, which would have been in breech of EU competition laws, the reason that Jeremy Corbyn, Len McClusky and all the other Lexiteers give as their reason for supporting Brexit?

Somewhat ironic then that the only conceivable benefit we've seen of Brexit yet is one advocated by Magic Grandad?

Are we now living in a socialist state then?

I'll give it a couple of minutes before the headbangers on the Tory backbenches start saying that we are

Don’t know the answer. Suspect there’s a lot more to it than what’s reported. I think it’s a good thing that something tangible is being made in this country rather than people making money by moving money around and others being paid to make them coffee. But what do I know I have no experience!

I don’t know the rules but we’d be in big trouble without a battery factory

It is a battery factory for only one manufacturer, so I presume will only be making batteries for their vehicles?

Tata is the only carmaker who will touch the UK with a bargepole (due to owning the steel industry) at the moment.
The problem we have is after the massive announcements, nothing is ever followed through to a successful conclusion.
Why will this be any different?

As others have said there is a competition for factories and state support is inevitable if we want to attract them. The result is that I have no problem with offering support. I would be interested in what JLR have committed to in return for the and what assurances they have given that the subsidy will be spent in the UK as additional investment and not just used to cut their cost and improve dividends elsewhere in the group

Are we now living in a socialist state then?

I’ll give it a couple of minutes before the headbangers on the Tory backbenches start saying that we are

Nope, this is a triumph of Brexit, and definitely nothing like a socialist state.

I suspect that we will end up fronting up a lot more than that, we seem to have no battery strategy, so its definitely welcome

But as with Britishvolt, 40 hospitals etc etc I wouldnt be counting any chickens yet

It would almost certainly be fine under EU law too. A large part of the cost for instance is upgrading the electricity grid in the area. That sort of infrastructure upgrade is not always billed to the new factory.

Tesla was offered 1.1 billion Euros for the Berlin factory...

It will be a real struggle doing it on our own and the quality of product companies like JLR + JCB pump out is nowhere near that of the competition.

It's the government 'panic-buying' a battery factory now they realise we're miles behind the developed world in EV manufacturing.
In reality, we would be better off focusing on the smaller existing companies who do things like making chargers, car parts and converting old vehicles. Or, start investing in a nationwide superfast charging network. Not to mention converting Public sector and corporate fleets to electric.

last week the canadian government paid $13.5 billion canadian dollars for vw to build a battery factory in ontario. that’s about £8 billion. the factory is going to directly employ 2,000 people.

that seems like the uk got a good deal considering the “Up to 9,000 jobs would be created at the Bridgwater site” that the bbc report.

but yes, all governments pay big companies to open big factories in their countries.

It's a start - nothing more.
The UK gov don't the ability or political will to do anything meaningful in the face of recent EU and US announcements.
A cynical interpretation would be...Indian company bribed by UK gov to build factory in Somerset.
Doesn't have much of a ring to it.

A cynical interpretation would be…Indian company bribed by UK gov to build factory in Somerset.
Doesn’t have much of a ring to it.

better than the other way around!

better than the other way around

Somerset bribed by UK government to build factory in India?

Seeing as JLR are in the financial doodoo and Jaguar is pretty much dead I don't hold out much hope on this deal. Despite what most people think they sell hardly any vehicles worldwide compared to the other players, have very few electric offerings and don't really seem to have a plan to change that. I hate to say so but I predict the factory will get built to grab the cash, run for a few years well below capacity then be shipped off to whoever is offering the biggest bribe at that time.

I really hope I'm wrong but I fear Tata are just going to milk the govt dry with this and the threat of pulling steel production from places like Port Talbot.

Sadly the only way we'll get batteries made in the UK I suspect.

Big picture....is JLR's standard fare what we really need an electrified version of right now? It'll keep a smallish number of people in jobs which is good and all. But if the UKs only EV battery manufacturer is not one interested in being the brand that will get the great unwashed into electric cars, it's all a bit of an irrelence.

Reluctantjumper (great name btw) is spot on here. This gov couldn’t drive a bargain if it was strapped on top of a Ferrari but desperately needed a post brexit trade win so mini prime minister will have had his begging bowl out on this one. Unfortunately rather than a proper company interested in partnering UK into the next generation of EV he’s got a subsidiary who don’t really give a toss and are using Tata steel as leverage.

Somewhat ironic then that the only conceivable benefit we’ve seen of Brexit yet is one advocated by Magic Grandad?

Are we now living in a socialist state then?

No the government can basically pick and choose what it wants to subsidise.

There is nothing Socialist about giving money to private business.

Just see it as an example that when a government chooses to spend - it can, without needing to 'find' the money.

If, say the government decided to fund public services properly you'd have less of a reason to scream about any losses from Brexit.

But take one thing away - the only thing stopping your government red or blue from making funding the state - is political will.

But neither wants to.

It's the route to the growth they all seem to want but neither Starmeroid nor Sunakland are smart enough to realise they own the BoE.

Northvolt have gone to Germany and will supply batteries for a million electric cars per year. JLR global sales were about a third of this - and how many needed batteries of any type? Jaguar is going all electric in 2025, and will need locally sourced batteries so as not to fall foul of the 10% rule. Jaguar sold 65000 cars in 2022. Don't hold your breath. there will be a lot of posturing here, but I fear little long-term success.

Somerset bribed by UK government to build factory in India?

exactly

Gonna be fun there when the Bristol channel breaks through the crumbling and underinvested EA flood defences and 240,000,000 wet lithium batteries get smashed up by the storm tides.

So, 800 million of U.K. taxpayer money to subsidise building a factory in the UK, rather than 800 million of U.K. taxpayer money being given to the EU so they can subsidise it being built in Spain instead

Sounds like a win to me….

“Up to 9,000 jobs would be created at the Bridgwater site” that the bbc report.

I doubt it, they might ensure that 9000 people remain in employment, but a lot of them will already be JLR/TATA employees. Or people working in sandwich shops locally.

The NorthVolt Ett plant has about 1000-1200 employees at the moment and from what i can remember is currently producing enough cells for about 120000 cars a year. (Not all of the cells are configured for cars though). They are projecting to make enough for JLRs complete output by end of next year (~300000 units) with not that many more employees.

Unless the government thinks one factory will create ~2000 FTE and 7000 supporting jobs locally... (mostly minimum wage or zero hour contract i'd guess)

Yep, building it in a disused bit of the floodplain. The bit that gets a little damp at least once a year.

Hope they can find enough steel girders to put the whole thing up on stilts.

TBF £800 million is only 2.89 Brexit buses...

Top stat 🙂

TBF £800 million is only 2.89 Brexit buses…

Should use this type of stat more often.

convert
Big picture….is JLR’s standard fare what we really need an electrified version of right now?

Luxury vehicles pollute the most, so arguably a great candidate to electrify, no?

Or do you mean bloated luxury vehicles should disappear (in which case I agree, but doubt it will ever happen)

Okay, even assuming it gets built what then? Where is anyone going to live?

There are currently 9-10k people working at Hinkley Point C every day, of that 1000 odd live in the campus, another 500 in Bridgwater and they have just secured another ~500 bunks locally. That's still a shortfall of 8000 beds which have already been absorbed into the surrounding area.

Okay, even assuming it gets built what then? Where is anyone going to live?

Commute 100 miles a day in ancient diesel hatchbacks

TBF £800 million is only 2.89 Brexit buses…

Or 6 weeks of EU contributions (net, about 3 weeks gross, 2018 figures)

In other news - Germany enters recession: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/25/germany-economy-falls-into-recession-high-prices-take-toll