[Closed] 7 seater luxury 4 x 4s - anyone got an XC90, Q7 or X5?

The kids are 6,4 and 5 months

I'm still trying to work out how it's possible he's got three kids only one month apart in age, and all with the same woman.

hughjayteens - Member
Suspect that all of the cars I suggested have far less impact on the environment that a Defender, yet if I had suggested getting one of those I'd probably have been applauded by most!

That's because Defenders are cool!

(and made out of recycled metal to start with, last forever and are so uncomfortable that you just don't drive them big mileages; they are the original eco car)

🙄

That's because Defenders are cool!

(and made out of recycled metal to start with, last forever and are so uncomfortable that you just don't drive them big mileages; they are the original eco car)

Yep.

However, they don't allow you to show the world how e[s]g[/s]co friendly you are, do they? 😉

Defender drivers are either:

[img] [/img]

or

Nobody mentioned the new Mazda [url= http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mazda/35519/next-mazda-cx-9-way ]CX-9[/url]? Or is it not Jimmy Choo enough?

Can you get those here? My sister in law has one, it's quite nice. But then again it is new. The ride is firm as they probably have to be in these things don't they? She has 3 kids too fwiw, 5, 4 and 1 and they fit across the back.

"Let's off road.........to, er, school/tennis club/Waitrose"

[img] [/img]

I commented about my Sis being Ginger because if you saw the colour of the car and her hair, you'd wonder about her sanity and colour co-ordination abilities..

Mind, she is a Maths Professor at Cambridge…

That's a surprise, you seem like a real catch, what with having lots of money and everything

Not to mention my chiselled good looks, wit, charm and ability to while away the hours on the internet justifying my choice of car to paupers.

Who's poor?

you

Do all rich people buy stupid oversized cars then?

Nope. But they don't moan about them either

Flange, you are AWESOME. the forum needed a new Don Simon or Surfmat and I think you might be that man!

No need to thank me.

Think of it as a service to the poor

I miss Surf Mat

Nope. But they don't moan about them either

They just moan about poor people instead, right?

I've been in the discovery, X5 and Q5. I thought they were all horrid - a kind of reverse tardis where there's far less space on the inside than you'd think, given the gargantuan external dimensions. Any wanting a spacious luxury family car would buy an upmarket estate.

Mind, she is a Maths Professor at Cambridge…

EDIT: wundhundredd! 😀

I have a twin brother and sister 3 years younger than me. The car was a VW Beetle for some years though I've a vague memory of a Mini at some point. Later there was an Austin maxi and I think when we were teenagers a Vauxhall Cavalier.

SIL has 3 (8/10/12)who happily fit in a Nissan X-trail. Mate in London (3/5/7) has just switched from a Touran to a Saab 9-5 estate (which gets them to France camping in summer).

Surely the cost, and inconvenience, of running a behemoth like the Q7 outweighs the benefits of not having to take two cars occasionally?

I know, Ginger and Bonkers..!

And drives a bright blue Hybrid..

Whooodathunkit.

I have a twin brother and sister 3 years younger than me. The car was a VW Beetle for some years though I've a vague memory of a Mini at some point. Later there was an Austin maxi and I think when we were teenagers a Vauxhall Cavalier.

In the days before car seats, I'd guess..?

And to be fair you can only take two cars if there are two drivers on hand?

What tyres for a Chelsea Tractor?

Ones that cost £500 each.

Lolz

In the days before car seats, I'd guess..?

Days before rear seatbelts. I think the Beetle had some sort of arrangement in the front but they weren't on an inertia reel.

Thinking about it, I remember a number of times the Beetle worked as a 7 seater - you could get two children in the bit on top of the engine behind the rear seat.

Ones that cost £500 each

They don't tend to do well on cars though.

Unless you are implying that the costs are similar, in which case I would counter that I don't spend £2k a year on MTB tyres 🙂

I haven't read all of this thread so apologies if what I say has been said already. We used to have an XC90 and it was the best family car I ever had. It was reliable and well built but best of all was the thoroughly sensible design - the little things that you don't notice until you run a car day to day. I really miss it and would be very tempted to buy another given current deals although you'd probably lose a lot in resale with a new one around the corner.
Good points;
The most comfortable seats of any car I've ever driven. Got out after 700 miles without any aches or pains. Utterly brilliant on long motorway journeys, 6 passengers and a roofbox. Very clear and simple intuitive controls - easy to underestimate this. The heated seats that with one push go to full, then another push to 50% then another push off. Never used all the infinite heat settings on German heated seats. The great rotary controls for cabin temp (Audis look great in the showroom but clicking through 0.5 degree increments in some models is a total PITA). Can use the controls wearing gloves in winter. Really powerful aircon and heating.
Brilliant xenon lights that turn with the steering (I swear that they were brighter and better than xenons on other cars I've tried), tough and durable, very very reliable and even servicing etc is relatively reasonable at a Volvo independant. We had an upgraded stereo on ours and it sounded really good - not sure if that was due to the bigger "space" inside the cabin or not but it sounded great. Easy to get rearmost seats up and down. I even liked the little plastic window tab that holds parking tickets in place. It just oozes thought and good design.
With regard to 4x4, that really depends on tyres. No match for a Landie. It is OK in snow on the standard conti cross contacts, and certainly got to places that lots of "normal" cars couldn't in deep snow but it's nowhere near as easy as you'd think. The "winter" setting on the gearbox seems to make a difference in snow and I've got up many snow covered steep hills with cars slipping and failing all around me. It's much better with proper offroad tyres if that's what you want. Last but not least, it's sublimely safe. I think when it came out, NCAP rated it as one of the strongest chassis/body cells it had ever tested and as Clarkson once said, with all the curtain and side bags etc, it would be like crashing a bouncy castle. Even the door handles are designed to be able to be opened by fire crews using large fireproof mitts! Size wise, it feels smaller than other 4x4s and more akin to parking an estate.
Bad points:
Very few. It's heavy on front tyres (especially contis). The front nearside always wears most. I had tracking etc checked umpteen times over but then got from a reliable source that it's common to all due to 2 tons pivoting on the front nearside going round roundabouts (on the continent, it's the front "UK offside" that wears most). I used to get about 7000 miles out of it. I'm told that Nokians may be better but possibly louder.
The engine is tough and reliable but rougher sounding than some competitors - but that's relative. I quite liked the 5 cylinder thrum at times and it was great when cruising on faster roads.
Economy for me (driven slowly and gently 99% of the time with family on board) was high 20s mixed urban - that's 6 up most of the time too.
I've owned about 10 cars in my time, driven a lot more. I would recommend an XC90 unreservedly. It's the best car I ever had. I may well look at the new model and really really miss my old one. Hope that helps.

I've never understood the high driving position thing.

Raising up a car is about the worst thing you can do to the handling of a car apart from adding a whole load of weight...

Is it just that people who like these faux off-roaders aren't very confident drivers?

This thread reminds me of a couple I knew through Madame. His was a new Ferrari, hers was a new AMG Merc, and when we visited we stayed in the guest house at the bottom of the garden. Nice fun-loving people exuding confidence, but something went wrong and when the assets were divided up in the divorce it turned out that they weren't worth much more than my bicycles. Careful, Flange. 😉

Mitsubishi outlander
4x4 and 7 seven seats and not big and ugly

I used to get about 7000 miles out of it. I'm told that Nokians may be better but possibly louder.

Quality thread, thanks all. The faux comments tickled me most, who do you think cares what you consider to be a "real" 4x4?! The car designers tend to build the cars that people want to buy : )

[i]No need to thank me.

Think of it as a service to the poor[/i]

& my real name is Hood, Robin Hood. Except I rob from the rich (your type apparently) & keep it.
You are a snobbish troll.

Don't discount the Discovery...
I've done 60,000 in my Disco II and I bought it with 75k on the clock. I love it and use it for work and family. At work it tows a 2.2 Ton trailer and it does it better than my previous Defenders.
The new Discoveries have better seats in the boot (seats 6/7) and are better equipped and handle/drive better than my Disco II.
If you're buying new then they are all awesome cars but for what I need (towing) there's nothing better with 7 seats...

My (small) mate has an X5, he loves it. He had a Disco before that but (he felt) it was more designed for off road than on road and as he drives on roads ( but towes a lot) the X5 made more sence to him.

Although X5's are probably looked down on from the 4x4 lot, at least they drive well, on the road which is probably whee most non utilitarian 4x4's stay anyway.

Also, google x drive vs Quattro on you tube.

Interesting results.

[quote=richmtb ]I've never understood the high driving position thing.
It's so you at least have a decent view when you are packed nose-to-tail in a traffic jam.

Yep, just seen the Outlander mentioned. A newer one is my next car.

I've got the petrol addicted older one...

I thought the high driving position was so you couldn't see the proles and children in your way thereby enabling you to concentrate on your handheld mobile phone call to the salon during the vital drop off on the school run.

Of the 3 I think I would most likely consider an xc90. Oddly for me this would be image over function. I just couldnt face being seen in the audi as nice as i suspect it may be. Everyone I know with an xc90 loves it. Q7 owners similarly happy. Think my britishness might send me to look at a disco tho.....

Nokian tyres will be very hard wearing btw because they are all scilicia. And energy saving too, but you lot don't seem to give a crap about that.

And energy saving too, but you lot don't seem to give a crap about that.

I don't think anyone with three kids (by choice) really gives a damn about the environment...

[i]And energy saving too, but you lot don't seem to give a crap about that. [/i]

Whoa big boy, only last month I 'downgraded' to a smaller engined car - now a 3.0i V6 rather than the 3.5i V8 I had before.

I'm Mr Green me 🙂

Disco 4 with the 3litre twin turbo diesel engine. As much power as you'll need, nicely refined and as comfy as a range rover. And as has already been said 7 proper seats

My Britishness would point me to a Qashqai +2 and a pile of change!

I struggle with long sentences

but...

your missus wants a car that is expensive, uneconomical, eats tyres

grow a pair any buy an espace instead or a T4

Good to see envy and petty jealousy alive and well on STW! OP wasn't asking for demonstrations of how low some people's self esteem is, so low that they feel threatened by his choice of car 🙂

@OP I would go for an x5 out of those you mentioned. Maybe a merc GL? They were a bit chintzy last time I looked though. I've had disco3s, RRS and FF over the last few years and they have all had reliability issues which has put me off them, besides the RRS is tiny inside for such a big car. Saying that, there are all new versions of RRS and FF out this year, and I know I will be tempted again, especially if the tdv8 makes a comeback! Q7s don't really do it for me.

Interesting read, and not only for the vehicle options...

7 seats with the capacity to look after everyone as they grow, plus all the stuff you cart around, reasonable on consumables and fuel.. high driving position etc etc.. forget the snow, towing a small building, off road and 4wd..... I'm coming back round to a T5 Caravelle or Viano which are quite a long way from "vans" ...... and good residuals too. There must be a reason that taxi drivers / professional drivers use them.

Like your website btw and I reckon that either of the above would not look out of place in your line of work if thats a consideraton...

I'm coming back round to a T5 Caravelle or Viano

Which if you have three or more kids is the vehicle you choose if you're making a decision based on your practical needs rather than badge status.

We have some family friends who have four kids under seven and this is what they ran for a number of years (as an interesting aside, he remarried after his wife left him; at that point he already had three kids, the youngest of which was still living with him age 15. He was early 40s. He then took the plunge with his new wife and now has four more kids, so seven in total!)

Good to see envy and petty jealousy alive and well on STW! OP wasn't asking for demonstrations of how low some people's self esteem is, so low that they feel threatened by his choice of car

Envy and jealousy really has nothing to do with it. I could afford one of these ridiculous cars if I wanted one. If we are going to get into armchair psychoanalysis, what about the low self esteem of those who feel the need to buy an impractical and antisocial car for reasons of 'status', but don't have the confidence to admit it, so come up with all sorts of frankly laughable justifications?

It's the inverted snobbery I find the most saddening. 🙁

Some of the comments are bordering on the offensive. However, the OP hasn't helped by trying to justify a choice on [i]practical[/i] grounds whilst ignoring the most practical options.

It's the inverted snobbery I find the most saddening.

But you're fine with the blatant 'regular' snobbery on display here. Interesting...

Envy and jealousy really has nothing to do with it. I could afford one of these ridiculous cars if I wanted one. If we are going to get into armchair psychoanalysis, what about the low self esteem of those who feel the need to buy an impractical and antisocial car for reasons of 'status', but don't have the confidence to admit it, so come up with all sorts of frankly laughable justifications?

Envy and jealousy has *everything* to do with it, what do you think fuel the bile-filled posts? - it's the same thing as inverse bike snobbery only with 4 wheels. I find it interesting how much some people care about what other people drive 🙂

But you're fine with the absoolutely blatant regular snobbery on display here. Interesting...

why mess around with softcock 4wds?

http://www.earthcruiser.com.au/

Looking for new or used?

As a Jeep fan, I would say jeep commander.

Unfortunately jeeps went a bit plastic around that time and they no longer make that model, also some might not appreciate the styling.

It was just another option I though I would throw out there.

[img] [/img]

High driving position, room for seven, 4X4 and will definitely get the neighbours talking 🙂 You could even stick some armchairs in the back and line with velvet for extra luxury.

The other thing I find quite sad is the willingness to put words into other peoples' mouths with out thinking.

Words like 'inverted snobbery' you mean? It's just pretty telling that you have people literally going 'haha paupers you can't afford these cars but I can' - yet its supposed inverse snobbery that you pick up on and criticise. Pretty telling IMO.

Envy and jealousy has *everything* to do with it, what do you think fuel the bile-filled posts?

The fact that (as evidenced pretty well by this thread) the target market for these cars contains a high proportion of posers who don't GAF about the environment or anyone else, want a car to show off, yet don't have the balls to admit it so invent spurious justifications?

As I said, I could buy one of these cars so I don't see where jealousy comes into it. I don't feel the need to bolster my 'status' with a flashy car though, so I bought something practical.

Envy and jealousy has *everything* to do with it, what do you think fuel the bile-filled posts?

I think it's fuelled by a sense that people who buy these cars do so without a second thought to the consequences of their decision, i.e. the impact on the environment and on other road users.

EDIT: great minds eh Grum.

There IS am impact; these cars DO put out more CO2, even with a diesel engine and the consequence of getting hit by one in an accident when you're in a much smaller car IS far worse for the occupants of the smaller car - that has been shown to be true in crash testing over and over again, cars with more mass impart far greater damage to cars with less mass and the greater the difference, the greater the damage. Yes the people that can afford to buy these bohemoths will be safer, but they are safer at someone else's expense, usually people who can't afford to buy a big car.

So to summarise, what fuels the comments is perhaps better described as a sense of 'social injustice' rather than envy, something that is a common theme in today's society and you can see examples of it everywhere you look. It's a bit like those who can afford to send their kids to private school, or can afford a tennis coach or horse for their kids etc etc.

I could afford a car like that but I drive a Volvo estate instead because it's safer and more environmentally friendly. I wouldn't dream of buying an X5, Q7 etc because of the status of those cars. I don't think all people who buy these cars are guilty of not caring about 'social justice' either, but I do think that peoples' anger towards the subject is driven by that rather than envy.

The OP is Surfmat. and I claim my £5.

Fair play to Audi though. They have managed to make an absolutely killing selling tarted up van's with comfy chairs. They are undoubtedly nice places to be but to describe one as a "car" stretches credulity to the point of breaking.

A Q7 is seventeen feet long and weighs almost 2.5 tons, the same length as a Ford Transit van but quite a bit heavier.

the consequence of getting hit by one in an accident when you're in a much smaller car IS far worse for the occupants of the smaller car - that has been shown to be true in crash testing over and over again, cars with more mass impart far greater damage to cars with less mass and the greater the difference, the greater the damage. Yes the people that can afford to buy these bohemoths will be safer, but they are safer at someone else's expense, usually people who can't afford to buy a big car

I want them (and me) to be in the safest possible place, which for me at the time was an XC90

No no, it's not and I completely understand what you're saying. The Volvo V70 is the safest estate car available and is as safe as the XC90 I think but it's quite a bit lighter than the XC90 and Q7 etc.

But that's not my point.

My point is this: it's an arms race. It is entirely possible to make all cars lighter and equally as safe, IF all other cars are also lighter.

Once you start down the 'more mass = more safe' equation, it only holds true for as long as you don't get hit by a more massive car, hence it becomes an arms race that those that can afford to buy more massive cars will always win.

It's an observation I'm making not a judgement on your part.

I have three kids and if, heaven forbid, we where to be hit by another car I want them (and me) to be in the safest possible place, which for me at the time was an XC90 - if looking after your family is wrong then I apologise.

What abut the kids in the other car?

Envy and jealousy really has nothing to do with it. I could afford one of these ridiculous cars if I wanted one. If we are going to get into armchair psychoanalysis, what about the low self esteem of those who feel the need to buy an impractical and antisocial car for reasons of 'status', but don't have the confidence to admit it, so come up with all sorts of frankly laughable justifications?

This.

I have three kids and if, heaven forbid, we where to be hit by another car I want them (and me) to be in the safest possible place, which for me at the time was an XC90 - if looking after your family is wrong then I apologise.

Hmmm, that age old chestnut!

For the record, I'm certainly not a snob, and a long way from being an inverse snob when it comes to cars. I have a massive respect for engineering, quality craftsmanship, performance, handling, the sound of their engines, the way they smell etc etc. I love cars basically!

But I can't afford a good one, and I realise and understand the impact they have on the environment. So I drive around in a cheap, economical old banger as its far more practical for my needs, and it's also significantly more economical than any vehicle that's been mentioned in this thread so far.

People get too caught up in justifying stupid cars to themselves for reasons only they can muster. No faux by four is a good car. They're all nasty pieces of cobbled together parts bin shite, covered in leather and big wheels, marketed to the well off with over productive loins as "safer for your children". What a pile of crap! At least a Ferrari or an Aston Martin makes no apologies for what it is, an outright performance car that's not trying to be socially responsible in any way.

If you REALLY cared about your children, you'd make them walk or cycle to school, and if that's too far, you'd move house so they were closer to school! I grew up living in the sticks, but my parents would just drop me off at the bus stop (a good 3 miles away) so I could then catch the bus to school.

My point is this: it's an arms race

EXACTLY!

And until everyone backs down and realises their own Tarquin, Freida and Tilly are no more important than the next family's kids, then it'll end up like the cold war with everyone getting bigger and bigger weapons until we reach a stalemate where none of them will fit on the UK's roads any more! Seemingly the Audi Q7 is nearly there already...

Boggles me how ANYONE could spend a small fortune on one of those monstrosities. If I absolutely had to have several kids, I'd buy something like a Caravelle and pocket the change towards something I could enjoy myself on quiet days and weekends.

I want them (and me) to be in the safest possible place, which for me at the time was an XC90

Wrong, you need one of these:

[img] [/img]

Toyota Land Cruiser 4x4 Armoured LHD,
fitted 4.2 litre turbo diesel,
5 speed manual gear box,
[b]Jankel B4 armoured,[/b]
Anti-Lock Brakes,
Driver Airbag,
Passenger Airbag,
Side Airbag,
Power Windows,
Rear Window Defroster,
Rear Window Wiper,
Tinted Glass,
A/C:front and rear,
Cruise Control,
Radio / CD with CD Changer,
Power Mirrors,
Sunroof,
7 Seats,
[b]Dual batteries,
Fire suppression system,
external vehicle intercom,[/b]
Hi-Lo ratio,
Spare wheel,

POA from MOD sales

or you could go all judge dredd and get one of these:

[img] [/img]

10 seater and a mere £35K

That's the vehicle I need to 'teach' stupid drivers to give way to the right at my nearest roundabout.

Some of these posts are literally amazing. Talk about social conscience and injustice all you like, I don't buy it. The crux of the matter is that some people don't like the fact that someone else can afford to buy and run a bigger and more expensive car than them. I bet the guys in their cayennes or x5s don't have an opinion on some other guy's vectra.

What abut the kids in the other car?

If their parents loved them they would be in a Q7, obviously. On a more serious note, what about the kids in the other car? Why would anyone care about some random stranger's kids as much as their own?

[i] cars with more mass impart far greater damage to cars with less mass and the greater the difference, the greater the damage[/i]

Surely if that's the arguement you'll be wanting to ban HGV's, 7.5t's, 3.5t's and anything else bigger than a Focus?

And looking through the data it seems that a new BMW 118d 5 door weighs more than my old BMW 535i (E39)!

And until everyone backs down and realises their own Tarquin, Freida and Tilly are no more important than the next family's kids

Do you have kids? My son is more important to me than everything else in the world added together. I'd jump under a bus for him without hesitation.

Having said that we have a skoda fabia, so I'm not sure what I'm doing on this thread!

PS I just passed my advanced motorbike test!

Some of these posts are literally amazing. Talk about social conscience and injustice all you like, I don't buy it. The crux of the matter is that some people don't like the fact that someone else can afford to buy and run a bigger and more expensive car than them. I bet the guys in their cayennes or x5s don't have an opinion on some other guy's vectra.

You can apply that all you want if we're talking about Ferrari's, Aston's, Porsche's, or even high end Beemers and Audi's (not X5's or Q7's though) and to an extent you would be right.

The thing is here, we're talking about faux by four tanks. Good for nothing except getting 7 people in (and only 5 of them in comfort). They're as pointless as an argument about them on an Internet forum! 😉

As an aside, just cos you can afford a nice car, and choose to run one, does not make you part of any kind of elite group. I'd love a nice car (again) but can't afford one right now (and it wouldn't be a faux by four) and I certainly would never deny someone spending their own cash on whatever they wanted to. But you should probably take note there are probably many more people out there as well off as you or more so, that simply don't care about cars in the slightest either and chose their vehicles on much more rational criteria. You should probably note as an aside, that faux by fours like the X5 and Q7 are about as socially acceptable as smoking in public these days, which is probably why you're experiencing such a massive backlash against them (aside from the fact they're crap and pointless).

Do you have kids? My son is more important to me than everything else in the world added together. I'd jump under a bus for him without hesitation.

Precisely my point

Doesn't matter whether I have kids or not, your kids are no more important to me than the next persons. And that is the point. All kids, regardless of parentage, are equally important. And all too often people forget this and try to wrap their kids in cotton wool, or treat them like they could do no wrong! Ever sat next to a family in a restaurant with kids that would just not behave, and parents that would just not discipline them at all? Same principle... Why are their kids so important that they can get away with being socially inept?

FWIW I have nothing against kids at all, but as a parent you should realise there are millions of other parents out there, all thinking their kid is more important than yours too. Hence the "protect my kids in an oversized hunk of junk 4x4" arms race perpetuates...

And looking through the data it seems that a new BMW 118d 5 door weighs more than my old BMW 535i (E39)!

Which proves the point that it's an arms race. Cars are getting heavier and heavier. The new 118d may weigh more than the E39 5-series but the new 5-series is even heavier still.

The crux of the matter is that some people don't like the fact that someone else can afford to buy and run a bigger and more expensive car than them.

Jeremy with that kind of attitude you are just proving my point. Your lack of grace, sensitivity and empathy towards others are the very characteristics people associate with the type of person who drive these cars and you're demonstrating that point perfectly. That you think for one second that it's because they are some how jealous or resentful of a person like that is actully quite funny.

If that's the kind of person you have to be in order to make enough money in life to afford that kind of car, then don't be surprised if people judge you for what you are and don't think for one minute that other people don't feel blessed that they don't have to be like that themselves.

Me, I've got a Nissan Patrol. Looks gorgeous, goes like the clappers, tows my caravan, comfy as anything, quiet in the cabin, had 7 seats (although I took the back row out because I don't need them). Oh, and a very capable offroader too. I love it. See my post on the caravan thread re environment.

All kids, regardless of parentage, are equally important

so you dont have kids then

And following on from that..

my car...

[img] [/img]

It is a 3.5sd or twin turbo. 286BHP unmodified and I enjoy driving it.

Love it how people are an expert on me, because of the car I drive 😆 If I had a subscription to the Guardian as well would it cause widespread confusion?

As for the car, it's not a real 7 seater. It's a 5 plus 2, my teenage son can fit in the back row when needed but it comfortable for long drives. We do use the extra seats though when my parents come down to stay and we go out as a family. Otherwise we would be taking two cars. Offroad it's not bad either, when I have the summer 20" wheels it's not ideal, but come the winter months and I have the 18"s on with thinner mud & snow tires it has been towing horse boxes out of my brothers farm and across fields without issue.

Economy is rubbish though, my old one would return 30mpg and this was meant to be a more fuel efficient engine, yet I struggle to get a constant 27mpg.

so you dont have kids then

You're still missing my point. Your kids are no more important than mine, or anyone else's, to the next person along. Society fails to realise that in general and allows everyone to run around believing their kids are the most important thing in the world... To you they are, but they're not to anyone else (except their other parent of course).

I wonder, given the state of global over population not looking like its going to slow any time soon, just when society (and more importantly govts) is going to stop rewarding people financially or socially for having children? You might think me a devils advocate, but being serious now, child benefits and other financial or social benefits for having children came about post WW2 for the benefits of helping rebuild the country... Think about it, in China they all want a son only and baby girls get abandoned because they're seen as a burden. How many people in Britain today have children for anything other than a selfish reason? None. The only reason to have children any more is because you want them. Therefore it is in itself, a selfish act. Not that I'm criticising... Everyone is equally selfish. But the time will come, maybe not in our lifetimes, when having children is actively discouraged because each new child puts more burden on society than it will alleviate!

And people buying Q7's and X5's to transport them about in to protect their little pride and joy very selfishly, will only speed the whole process up!

We are all someone's child, and we are or all have been the most important thing in the world to someone, at some point at least... But not to anyone outside of your immediate family, just remember that!

If buying a Chelsea tractor were the only way to keep your kids safe in a car then I could understand the argument people make for buying and running them.

There isn't anything I wouldn't do for my kids either, including driving a Volvo estate 😀