[Closed] +/- 4mm on a custom kitchen worktop...

Seems pretty poor, I could cut you a piece of worktop to +/- 0.5mm and I'm a rank amateur.....

Remeasure it. Are you sure it isn't closer to 1195? 🙂

4mm is probably the saw blade width which is why they use that number.

I'd have a moan about it if it were me.

Assuming you've not done anything to it you could take it back and ask for a refund then buy another hoping it's the right length.

Or centre it and drill into it, through the upright panels, to draw them in a bit.

4mm does seem very large. A modern machine shop would be able to produce to tolerances in the tenths of a mm sort of range.

couple of points here -

the worktop will expand/contract slightly over the course of the year as temperatures/humidity changes.
If it is too tight between the two taller units, it might bow/deform as the extra material needs to go somewhere.

is it going on top of a 1200mm unit? have you measured the unit? is it exactly 1200mm?

If you worktop was exactly 1200mm (the same size as your gap)would it be possible to drop it into place without scratching the side panels either side??

to be honest, as an ex-kitchen fitter +/- 4mm doesn't sound too horrific.
However, your piece of worktop may have been cut on some sort of CNC machine, which can cut to less than 1mm tolerance - so I reckon the 1196 size is deliberate.

I can't find any reference to this 4mm in any of the paperwork

Sale of Goods Act, goods not as described. If they'd told you up front it'd be a different story. Even if that's normal acceptable tolerance (and I have no idea whether it is), I'd argue that it's reasonable to expect that they'd have told you beforehand.

That said, I'd have thought you'd want some sort of silicon bead or edging strip around the edges anyway, to make it watertight. 4mm is only 2mm either side.

what are the other bits like?

There is every chance that another will be 1204mm - which you could easily trim to fit. I'd reject the current piece and try for another being oversize.

What's the tolerance of your tape measure over 1200mm!? 😉

You could be +/- 2mm out!

And are you trying to get an exact fit? Surely you'd need to leave a few mm either end to allow for expansion and contraction?

you were going to fit a worktop snug to a unit without any sealant ? - sounds like a recipe for water to get in to the end grain and fester where it cant get out .

"that I will now have to fill somehow (probably silicone) but won't look great"

not if the sealant is applied properly and finished correctly it wont.

As above, I'd go with 2mm either side myself.

Also, where is the gap 1200? Worktop height? Front and back? Floor level? High level? Kitchen is unlikely totally square and level.

2mm either end to seal against the cover panels sounds ok to me, you'd be sealing it anyway, you weren't going to just butt it up dry were you? And if it was exactly on 1200 it'd be a tit to get in there.

Just give it back & ask for a refund. Ikea are usually very good at sorting refunds out. I should know from all the crap my girlfriend has taken back.

Thanks for the pointers everyone. First ever kitchen fit and rank amateur with silicone gun, so yes I was just going to butt it up to the cover panels and secure it... Sounds like the consensus is just to stick with the piece I have make up the gap with silcone.

Here is a picture of the offending worktop (under the black cabinets on the right). There is another coverpanel (identical to the grey one on the left) to go to the right of the worktop.

Cheers!

[url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7528/16285889975_4f48278a63_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7528/16285889975_4f48278a63_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/69309759@N02/16285889975/ ]Worktop[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/69309759@N02/ ]VeeeDubStar[/url], on Flickr

Also - the rest of the worktops are bob on the lengths/widths they are supposed to be so the 1196 may be deliberate for the gap I need to get it in..

I'd live with the gap myself and use a clear/opaque silicone (not a white/grey one) to seal the gap. Have a practice with the silicone gun first on a angle made with scrap to get the hang of it...cut a smaller hole in the nozzle than you think you need at first, you can always make it bigger if you need to. A joint made with one quick smooth movement is much tidier than over-applying and having to make good with a damp finger. Make sure there's no dust in the air when you do it.

Incidentally, the two pieces on the left hand side? How are they joined?

I'll give that a go, cheers for the advice.

Two pieces on the left aren't joined yet but I'm led to believe the box of bits and pre-cut holes will allow me to "biscuit join" them... Whatever that means!

Two pieces on the left aren't joined yet but I'm led to believe the box of bits and pre-cut holes will allow me to "biscuit join" them... Whatever that means!

Ah, ok, I see. I didn't realise they were pre-jointed as well.

Biscuits are these, so I assume there are pre-routered grooves to take them.
[img] [/img]

a 2mm gap either side with silicone is perfect no?

Make sure you do a couple of test runs with the silicone gun first if you havent done it before...

edit: beaten to it..

Two pieces on the left aren't joined yet but I'm led to believe the box of bits and pre-cut holes will allow me to "biscuit join" them... Whatever that means!

Just shove some custard creams in the gap and water liberally....

Hang on, they wood, the wood topped laminate or laminate?

If they're wood, and there wasn't a gap, expansion/contraction would lead to something splitting/breaking. In fact, I'd be a little worried about "only" 4mm over that length when the ends are constrained. Especially as by the plugged in heater there it looks like it might be cold in there just now and things could warm up?

And is that a sink cabinet at the end there with no cutout for the sink in the top, nor pipes at the back? Looks like a cut-out sink back on it?

EDIT spotted the cable on the wall, cooker going there maybe?

You could be +/- 2mm out!

Bob on for a scaffolders tape then! 8)

Also given this has the magic K word in the thread title, closure early tomorrow when the spammers strike.

Expansion along the length would be pretty negligible I reckon. And given that it's a load of narrow staves glued together, there won't be a lot front to back either - which is kinda why they're made that way.

Worktops are laminate not solid wood.

Yep - induction hob and extractor hood going on back wall next to door. Cutting the hole for the hob is the only damage I should have to do to the worktop.. I'm hoping there is a healthy lip on the hob underside to hide any dodgy cuts.. Any advice on cutting the hole for the hob anyone?

Any advice on cutting the hole for the hob anyone?

Normally they come with a template sheet so you can use that to mark the hole. Then borrow a decent jigsaw or router and take your time. I melted my Dad's jigsaw doing a sink cut out in solid wood - it was smoking by the time I finished!

Bosch do some nice laminate jigsaw blades (cut downward) so you can cut through the surface without splintering it. I found blade speed/feed speed to be a bit of a balance. Once you've cut part of it, you can get some clamps on it to hold the offcut in place so when you get near to finishing it doesn't try and drop out - the off cut will be heavy!

I've only jigsawed one sink hole, but it went ok.

The one and only time I cut a worktop with a jigsaw, the top looked ok but the underside was all over the place due to flex in the blade.

I'd either cut it slightly under with a jigsaw and then use a router to square it up or use a plunge saw for the straight edges.

just make sure you fit it right ways up cougar ?

Plungisaurus would be good for the straight cuts - but not everybody has access to the kind of one that's safe for doing this kind of cut. I'm not keen on using circular saws for plunge cuts. A powerful jigsaw with a long sturdy blade would be good. Check how much there is between edge of hob and the cut. If it's only a few mm, then you'll need to be clean and accurate. If you've got an inch or so, then a few chips at the edge of the cut won't ever be seen.

does taping the cut and cutting down the tape with a fine blade not work with the jigsaw like it does on laminate flooring ?

It sounds to me from your posts, that you are after a spot-on finish. I'd get a kitchen fitter in just to do the worktops. Without the right tools it's very easy to make a balls-up of it.

I wouldn't know trail rat 😀

haha - that wasnt a dig deadly - its just a trick i use when doing my own laminate cuts - flooring and otherwise. - also works with ceramic tiles.

more so - id be looking to see worktop clamps on that joint with the biscuits - do you have em ?

Is 1196 the new standard, and 1200 is obsolete now? Like 1196 makes the kitchen come alive or something?

does the worktop want to be 1218 in the first place? to extend over the base unit end panel on the right of offending worktop. and whilst 4mm isnt to much to seal its on the limit of looking decent IMO. send it back if not happy.

IKEA are quite bad at making their units a mm too big. Your tape could easily be out by a mm or two. I never use down cutter blades; jigsaws work by being pulled down onto the work by the up cutting teeth. down cutters cut squint and the saw bucks all over the place. A medium blade is fine, you won't get any chips bigger than 2mm, easily cleaned up with a file. I do put masking tape beside the cut to stop the jigsaw base marking the worktop as it cuts (tiny bits of grit embedded in the base).

Thanks for the replies and advice everyone. Think I'm going to rent a decent router to do the hob cut (after jig-sawing). As much as I would like to buy another power tool a circular saw and a jigsaw have already been purchased this month..

The rest of the worktops measured up perfect, pics below for anyone interested.

Cheers again for info all.

[url= https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8612/16317035765_337d20431f_o.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8612/16317035765_337d20431f_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/69309759@N02/16317035765/ ]Kitchen[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/69309759@N02/ ]VeeeDubStar[/url], on Flickr

Did you seal the ends of the worktops either side of the sink?

What's the tolerance of your tape measure over 1200mm!?

the end of the tape measure always has a bit of wiggle to it - notionally so you get the same measurement whether you push the end tab against an internal measurement or pull it against an external measurement but that wears and gives inaccurate measures quite quickly so if the measurement matters I always measure between two points on the tape rather than from the end

Friend of mine had a stanley tape measure with a typo on it - on the inch scale it went ....95 - 96 - 97 - 97 - 98 - 99.... so on anything over 97" it was always an inch out.

Imagine it being someones job to proof-read tape measures - then imagine them being called into the office for a chat after god knows how many tapes have left the production line and found their way to the shops

Both ends were already sealed by the manufaturer however I had to cut two small notches at the front which I sealed with silcone. I'm going to get my mate to silicone around the sides and back of sink as he's a LOT better than me..

That Stanley tape with the typo in.. Wonder how many of those made it out of the factory?! Reckon a fair few people would have been scratching their heads over that!

Siliconing is easy. But ONLY if you use green Frog tape along both sides of the line and you have plenty of white spirit to wet your finger and masses of paper towel to wipe the excess off.

I've tried dozens of time without the tape. And made a horrid mess. With the tape, great results.

[url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cramer-FUGI5-5-Fugi-Kit/dp/B003BNLQQ0 ]Fugi[/url] for me.

Have you gotten to the point where you realised Ikea kitchens are shit yet?
Stupid crappy fittings on the sink waste, crap non standard plugs that don't seal the plughole, lack of services/uneven wall gap at the back of the units?

I'd happily walk round Ikea with a gallon of petrol and a match Falling down style.

and breathe again......

Fitted two IKEA kitchens. Yeah the lack of service gap is a bit odd. However once you've figured it out I've never found it a problem. Also means you can access stuff from behind the kickboard. Can't comment on sinks as I've always used other brand sinks, same for worktops.

I would say that if you've got this far(looks good btw) and own a jigsaw, drill etc, Then the cut out is straightforward:

-Ghost fit w/top to fixed/level base units.
-Check hob placement isn't directly under any electrical points or too close to wall units(There is a recommended distance somewhere on t'internet)
-Hobs will usually come with template. Measure, dbl check, mark out perimeter with dbl thickness masking tape. Set masking tape to the inside of your marked perimeter. Mark internal lip on tape(allowing a couple mm tolerance).
-Four 9mm holes drilled on the inside corners of marked cutout guide.
-Carefully join the dots with your jigsaw. Use a lam. specific blade or a medium toothed metal work blade(cheaper, just as effective) most jigsaws have an oscillating function to help push through cuts. turn this off and use a med-high speed setting and guide rather than push jig. through.(If you felt you needed to, could clamp a level to outside edge of jig. foot plate to aid straight cuts)
-Support cut out with timber or human. Any high spots can be sanded etc.
-Seal cut edge
-Be mindful that w/top(esp. composite) will be very weak at cut portion

Hope this helps
Re. 4mm tolerance. Can you live with it? Or will it bug you. Did cut sides come laminated? If not would bring either side out a mm or so?

Mekke's method is how id did ours. The ikea hob just came with dimensions to measure out yourself so double tripple and made offerings to the saw dust gobblins before cutting.

The end result

[url= https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2945/15363172306_3e8ee736e9_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2945/15363172306_3e8ee736e9_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/parkesiemtb/15363172306/ ]House renovations[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/parkesiemtb/ ]Parkesiemtb[/url], on Flickr

Cutting the joins for the tops was the most nerve racking bit the sink was marked and cut in situ as moving a 3.5m worktop with a hole in would have ended in tears.

I just cut the sink hole in situ with a jigsaw, was pretty easy as it came with a template, so just traced that out and cut round it.

What's the verdict on IKEA kitchens then? Looking at getting a new one and the pricing seems very good - I'll be honest I can't tell the difference between any I've looked at but the price varies massively- wouldn't be fitting it myself

[i]wouldn't be fitting it myself [/i]

find a fitter and see what they recommend would be my advice.

I went down the DIY route but with kitchen supplied by a local company that manufactures on site so that when/if there were issues I could get bits quickly.

What's the verdict on IKEA kitchens then?

Quality is pretty good. I took out a 10 year old(ish) Ikea kitchen. Re used a load of the bits, some in the new kitchen, some in the utility. Quality of the new stuff is on a par if not better than most other places. I much prefer their pricing and order system too. You can do it all yourself, work out all the options, tweak it, etc then just present them with a list. No need to deal with idiot salesmen and negotiate fake discounts. They are good for spares and returns if you do have any issues (even those of your own making)

What's the verdict on IKEA kitchens then? L

Just fitted one, came out really good. A few comments:

Ignore or treat with a big pinch of advice anyone advising based on experience over 1yr old - they changed the kitchen system for the first time in 12 years last year. The new stuff is quite different in some respects, a mate did the old style last year so I'm fairly aware of the differences.

As above, if you're getting a fitter, get their advice, but some points to consider in no particular order:

o Ikea cabinets go all the way to the wall basically, you need to run services under them, or very tight to the wall. In my case, all the services were "within" one cabinet so it worked well, and I have a freestanding cooker so no issues there.

o The newer METOD base cabs go very low to the floor - there's not much gap underneath.

o Ikea cabs are deep. A standard 60cm worktop won't cover them properly, ikea tops are 63.5cm.

o They come in 20cm size intervals, up to 80cm wide, wall cabs up to 100cm tall.

o The above points (low, deep, tall) mean they're far larger inside than pretty much anything else, you get a lot of space.

o they have a lot of cunning/useful drawer options.

o the "maximera" drawers (soft close) have MUCH nicer runners (not made by ikea) and let you get them all the way out.

o Plan, plan, plan. Think mostly about gaps to allow adjustment when fitting, how you're going to do ends, gaps and angles (which are likely not perfect 90s)

o If you have awkward services, or gaps, consider other makes (howdens, wickes etc) which do e.g. 50 and 100 wide cabs.

o I find the sinks ok, and the trap/waste design very good for my purposes, maybe it's new too compared to the complaints above. My mate with the old style told me he had issues with the funny connections, but mine went straight onto my waste with a compression fitting.

---

To the OP thinking about hiring a router for the hob cut out. Don't bother. I needed to mitre a join, which is way more of a job. I found a local joiner who came and did the join for me and the sink cut out whilst he was at it for less than I could hire the tools for. Not worth my time and he did a better job than I could. It did take a while to find someone though, as it's a small job (they just need to turn up with tools) so you need someone local/working near by who wants a bit of spending cash for a bit of extra evening/weekend work.

The new ones are very easy to fit with their rail system. Makes it pretty idiot proof for lining everything up. I'd be tempted to have a go then just get someone in for the worktops.

The rails are a bit of a faff if you have uneven walls, and for my layout at least involved a lot of holes, some at 240cm height, in very hard bricks. Ladder platform, laser level and SDS drill are your friends.

I took a week off work and did our kitchen. Just fitting the units probably could've been quicker but there were other things to faff about with.

What's the verdict on IKEA kitchens then?

My brother fitted one and it's looking pretty shabby after only 18months. The drawer fronts are plastic covered fibre board and water seems to leak into the fibre board where the handles screw in. Any drips sit on the handle and are held in place with plenty of time to soak in. The fibre board swells up and splits the plastic cover. Rubbish design.

IA has pretty much described my experience fitting our ikea kitchen. Id never even thought of doing 1 before but it was a rewarding process the end result looks great works well and the extra space is worth the head scratching fitting the utilities.

Before

[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3859/15363192746_e54dba6c21_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3859/15363192746_e54dba6c21_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/parkesiemtb/15363192746/ ]House renovations[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/parkesiemtb/ ]Parkesiemtb[/url], on Flickr

During you can see the rail system on the wall.

[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3900/15385835752_c58893cb26_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3900/15385835752_c58893cb26_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/parkesiemtb/15385835752/ ]House renovations[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/parkesiemtb/ ]Parkesiemtb[/url], on Flickr

After

[url= https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2945/15386143095_a187e28a9a_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2945/15386143095_a187e28a9a_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/parkesiemtb/15386143095/ ]House renovations[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/parkesiemtb/ ]Parkesiemtb[/url], on Flickr

What's the verdict on IKEA kitchens then? Looking at getting a new one and the pricing seems very good - I'll be honest I can't tell the difference between any I've looked at but the price varies massively- wouldn't be fitting it myself

We really struggled to find a fitter who would touch them. Then they screwed us around for about 3 months in the design, finally paid for it, noticed a mistake went back to alter the design only to find the units were now EoL.
Cancelled, started again with new units. Their fitter came out for a comparative quote (astronomical btw, but I had the luxury of a Dad who is a sparky and good handyman, so we did a lot) and he pointed out the design wouldn't fit.
Sacked them off after that, bought a Cooke & Lewis (B&Q) which has been very good quality, not much more expensive (worktops from worktop-express.co.uk, as B&Q are standard sizes unlike IKEA), sink & taps off EBay .. did it all including limestone floor and Stoves range for less than the IKEA fitting quote.

So in short, I wouldn't 🙂

Its a custom size, for which you pay a premium so I'd expect that size.

Unless it states at point of sale about the tolerance I'd be asking for a replacement.

Thanks for that folks - it's a odd shaped room that's going to need some customization of the cabinets - think I'll find a local fitter and take it from there - the quote from Wickes was insane in comparison to Ikea. Never done it before and much more of a headache than I imagined!

the quote from Wickes was insane in comparison to Ikea.

Was it comparable work/units though? As in just units, or including fitting?

I found wickes and ikea very similar in cost, but the ikea units were better for us.

The comments about water ingress and splitting etc. seems to be a risk with any cheaper kitchen, as they're all made a similar way. Important to take some care with assembly and sealing where required I think.

Asking people (in general) how much a kitchen costs gets you very varying estimates (about 2k-10k seems a reasonable range). A lot depends on how much you need done to plumbing and electrics, how much you do yourself (it's quite labour intensive), decoration (tiles alone could be a fortune) etc. I would expect with Ikea, as a rough guide, you'd spend about as much on fitting as the cabinets, then add on the extras (lighting, accessories etc)

That's part what I'm trying to get my head around thanks - trying to make sure I'm comparing apples with apples!

Our IKEA bill came to about £2900. £400 of that was the custom worktops and the rest was units, sink and tap. Obviously we need to buy oven, hob, etc. on top of that lot but compared to prices we were getting from Wren, Wickes etc. we were looking at 2-3k cheaper from IKEA. You have to build all the units up yourself but that's the easiest bit by far and once you've done 1 they're a doddle.

The new "METOD" rail system is actually very good, however (and as noted above) if you don't have straight walls it is a little more time consuming to get them nice and straight. Not a massive job though, just playing around with packing pieces.

The lack of utility space at the back of the units is a bit of a pain but not a dealbreaker for me given the massive cost difference. I had to do quite a lot of bodging around leccy meter, mains water, waste pipe, etc. etc. but it was still only 4 cabinets in total. It wasn't too bad and who doesn't like a bit of jigsaw action?! Only downside is apparently any cabinet that you cut loses its warranty but I'd imagine this is the case for all manaufactuers.

I'm fitting myself so don't have much of an idea on cost but my very rough estimate is that I'd be looking at 1500-2000 to fit mine (Newcastle prices..)

Also - getting the design right was critical. We spent about a total of 5 hours with the designers in IKEA (Gateshead Metro Centre) and each of the 3 different people we spoke to were excellent. I've popped down a couple of times since I started fitting where I've unsure on something and they've been more than happy to advise and help.

The above sounds similar to me except:

I spent less, for probably a similar kitchen but I have fewer, larger units, and standard worktop lengths that I fitted (or as above paid for the join). My total worktop cost was £200 (inc the join) for a bit over 4.5m of length total. I do have £300 odd of lighting bits though.

I think design is important, but I DIY'd it all - only spoke to staff to order the bits (which I then picked up myself).

When I was unsure I went in and took apart their units 🙂