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I ask as my mother workplace is about to move onto it's pre-xmas work hours for 7 days a week leading all the way up to xmas([url= http://castlemaclellan.co.uk ]castle maclellan[/url]) to get all the production rush and orders out to the shops, her usual hours throughout the year are 6am to 3pm but at this time of year her hours will be 4am through to 2.30pm, they do not pay any extra for these unsociable hours - surely getting up for work just after 3am to get in for a 4am start in the morning qualifies for unsociable hours or am i just expecting too much?.
The company is owned by the Kavli group which i understand to be a trust that according to it's website takes it's social responsibility very highly which leavers me wondering how they can pay it's workers a couple of pence more than the minimum wage to start work at 4am in the morning?.
She's recently had her 2nd day off from work this year due to illness and on return to work was told that if she had any more absences then she would be on report or suchlike, i'm not sure as to the exact wording she said as i saw [i]red[/i] at hearing this from her (she was really ill) and i was all for heading down to her workplace and dragging her boss outside and throwing him headfirst into the river.
So stw?, would you consider getting up for work at 3am to be paid less than £7/hr to be unsociable hours?.
I guess it would depend on (a) whether or not my terms of employment covered that eventuality and (b) I had an alternative.
Absence management is fairly standard. Often it's used to help employees resolve underlying health and/or other issues.
Hmm, she's been there for years and Kavli fully took over the company a few years ago, and alternative employment in this area is non-existent.
I may try and get a copy of her terms and employment so i can get a mate to read them over but i imagine a company as large as Kavli have got all all the proper wording in place so they can screw folk over without fear of recourse.
In the world of HGV anything before 4am is classed as nights anything after that is normal. Not the same line of work but just to put things in to perspective. As it's a 2:30 finish I wouldn't worry too much as she still has the best part of six hours to kill before going to bed.
There's no automatic right to unsocial hours, if it's seasonal then less so as it's not a permanent work. It's crap though.
As Scotroutes that kind of absence management is pretty standard, it's used for a few things. One is to help the employee with health issues as Scotroutes mentions, might be by helping with alternative work, location or hours. The the other is to weed out the piss takers, which of course it sounds like your mother isn't.
I'm not sure throwing her boss in the river would help her employment.
Yeah possibly not drac but from what I hear about the piss poor management of the place I'm sure it would be doing the company a favour, at least she's only got a couple of years till she can retire.
Oh - and while I'd not try to justify the pay, as someone currently looking for employment in a semi-rural area I would point out that minimum wage and unsociable hours are by no means mutually exclusive.
Oh I'm sure it would make you feel good.
Nah I doubt it would make me feel any better, anyway.....it would deprive my mother from the pleasure of doing it herself.
What's it say in the employment contract she signed?
I'll check it out cougar (or rather i'll get a mate to look over it) but i imagine it's pretty well sewn up on her employers side with regard to seasonal work/irregular hours etc, it's just so annoying to see her work herself into exhaustion 7 days a week (they make it known that it is expected of everyone) leading right up to christmas eve, when it comes to xmas day and beyond she's absolutely shattered - she said to me earlier that she's only going to do her regular 5 days/week this year so i hope she sticks to it.
Absence management covers a multitude tbh... It can be grim, it can be nothing at all, it depends on the company but it's nothing inherently bad. I've been through 'em all, from the illegal bullying "How dare you be ill" type to the "Hope you're OK! Let us know if we can help! Glad you're back!" type, they all come under the same heading.
Get a new job.
If you believe a place isn't managed well and they are exploiting you as a worker then go somewhere else.
Lots of choice at the minimum wage level. Supermarket? McDonald's are meant to be good to their staff?
No point in showing loyalty to an employer who doesn't show it back.
Some useful info from the government
https://www.gov.uk/night-working-hours/hours-and-limits
By starting at 4am then they only cover 2 hrs in the nighttime working rules. (As I read them)
Night time working hours are usually between 11pm and 6am - but this can be flexible if agreed between workers and the employer.The agreement must be in writing. The night time period must:
be 7 hours long
include the period between midnight and 5am
Staff who regularly work for at least 3 hours during this period are night workers. Staff may also be night workers if:
https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours/calculating-your-working-hours
She may also be covered by the working time directive unless a mass opt out was signed especially if working 7 days/week. However it's calculated on a 17 week average so worth just checking what it adds up to unless she signed away that right.
One big question is why the need for hours like that, a quick look a the company suggests fresh food and making shipping deadlines but it also sounds like a lack of imagination/clear thinking from management to get into this type of situation so I'd be looking for a job elsewhere.
I work in a completely different industry (engineering) but with us unsociable non night shift hours are before 7am and anything after 6pm.
So I work 6-2 one week then 2-10 the next and get an uplift for doing so. As said above I don't think this is a hard and fast rule set it's company driven from what I understand.
At my employer we get night hours before 6am.
Sick reporting - the first stage could simply be a chat to determine any issues. It doesn't mean they are going to drag her over the coals.
7 day week? You can opt out of the recommend max hours but you cannot opt out of the 12 in 14 rule. An employee must have two rest days during each 14 day period. Annual leave/sick leave do not count as rest days. (EWTD)
It is a very very bad thing indeed to exceed the 12 in 14 rule at my employer, even due to a succession of emergency callouts overnight.
Would normally expect a premium for those hours. Is she on alternating shifts or fixed earlies? Minimum wage in the UK needs to be higher.
[i]Would normally expect a premium for those hours. Is she on alternating shifts or fixed earlies? [/i]
Not now, maybe years' ago - or tbh in the public sector (I saw them paying over and above in the NHS, ie time-and-a-half for Saturdays, when the person only works a Saturday).
no right to 'unsocialable hours premium no matter what the shift start and finish times.
supermarkets, certainly big four, pay considerably more than the minimum wage usually about 30% more
12 out of 14 cannot be opted out of, it would be illegal to have to work more and illegal to do so.
Not really relevant but why are they working so early? Do they want to get a 2.30pm to midnight shift in as well or something?
http://castlemaclellan.co.uk you pass it on your way to Kirroughtree.
My employer is currently offering new starts contracts which are paying drastically less than the older, more experienced operators including poorer holiday entitlement. As a shift worker we are expected to stay at home during lack of demand production pauses, owing the company the time to be paid back when required. Day shift staff have to keep holidays to cover these pause, 6 days for Xmas. Locally still a very good wage but something in the order of £5k less. As Soma says work in our area D&G is not readily available. We have lost 19 out of 20 of apprentices over the past few years, all good tradesmen. They have moved on to other factories, the riggs and Nissan. This leaves our average age on site quite high!!
Always had the return to work stuff but that is being tightened up as is timekeeping. Usual advice is to take enough time off to warrant a self cert rather than the odd day now & again. There is no sympathy nowadays for us auldies who drag ourselves in regardless of health issues in these days of "lean working" conditions.
MrsT is in a manage position and suffers from health issues but if someone is recognised to be "working" the system then there are systems in place to deal with it but being a Gov dept they are quite restrictive and difficult to use. Some people in management positions don't have people skills and maybe shouldn't be in post. Some staff, and I work with some, take the "interview" as a personal slight on their character. Boxes have to be ticked, it's how it's done that matters.
There certainly seems to be a harder edge emerging re employers trying to make things harder for employees, hoping they will leave to enable them to employ people of cheaper contracts. Evidenced by a recent new report on employment being up but tax receipts being down.
Like mum Soma I've only got a couple of years to nurse the auld body out of bed and into work after 30 odd years of shift work 🙄