[Closed] 40mph plan for country roads

How predictable, and how depressing on a cycling website.

Have you ever cycled on a twisting country lane on a road bike? Or ridden a horse? Or walked?

Some perspective is needed rather than a Daily Mail rantette. 🙄

Would never think that people think that driving on a country lane at 60mph might be stupid and that to suggest setting the limit at say 40mph, which on many lanes is still fast, is far more realistic.

Many lanes i have driven in Wales, Devon, Gloucestershire whilst legally 60mph, should never be driven at that sort of speed for a thousand different reasons.

This is a classic slow news day story. Stories about speed limits crop up every now and then but when was the last time you saw a major change?

There sort of already is a 40mph limit, anything over 3.5t [i]should[/i] already be travelling at a max 40mph on any single carriageway. If they were then that would be the default pace for all traffic on busier routes. The A9 is the only road on the mainland where I see that observed, but I don't know why that road and not others.
I wouldn't have a problem with a limit like that on minor roads country roads, as opposed to trunk roads.

Ho yes that be un-enforceable

Only a small proportion of motorists require 'enforcement' most people are capable of policing themselves, and don't require nannying.

A 40mph speed limit on rural roads will not make it safer for other road users, improving driving standards will, as will a justice system that reflects the true impact of causing death or injury by dangerous driving, dealing with people who drive whilst disqualified, drive unsafe cars, not having driving licence

And lets not forget road maintenance.

I suspect these will have a greater impact on safety

What defines a 'country road'? An 'A' road outside of built-up urban regions? 'B' roads? 'C' roads?
I would hazard a guess at C-class roads, as most are relatively narrow and twisty, and 50mph is only possible on very short sections anyway. Here in North Wilts, 40 is a perfectly reasonable speed in most places.

A 40mph speed limit on rural roads will not make it safer for other road users, improving driving standards will, as will a justice system that reflects the true impact of causing death or injury by dangerous driving, dealing with people who drive whilst disqualified, drive unsafe cars, not having driving licence

And as most drivers are stupid, and need nannying, telling them that driving at 60mph on a lane is a stupid idea and that 40mph makes more sense seems like a good thing to me, remember that if they want to reduce the speed limit they have to use repeaters, have to ensure they are visible etc.

Yes education and training is good but doesn't get round the cost of repeaters etc.

There has been a blanket 40mph limit inside Dartmoor National Park for years. There are some roads where you think "crikey, this feels slow" but overall I don't think it has been a total disaster.

oh, and if you read the article, twisty roads, busy with horses, cyclists are the ones being considered i.e. lower class B and C roads, not major rural A roads.

remember that if they want to reduce the speed limit they have to use repeaters, have to ensure they are visible etc.

As I understand part of the proposals is that they won't need repeaters, because of the prohibitive costs on country lanes.

@ian that basically is my point, even if a council want to set a lower limit for safety reasons they can't because of the cost. And basically there are too many stupid drivers who think that just because the speed limit is 60 you have to drive at that speed

fwiw repeaters for the Dartmoor 40mph limit are mostly if not all painted on the road. Anyone know how that compares in cost to repeater signposts?

And basically there are too many stupid drivers who think that just because [s]the speed limit is [/s] they can't drive at 60 where it is appropriate, noone else should

Great idea. It would also reduce fuel consumption and carbon emissions.

So zokes where is it appropriate to drive at 60mph?

Remember we are talking about twisty rural lanes not A roads? What is the stopping distance of your car? can you always stop in the distance you can see? Which is what the proposal as presented is stating.

If you want to race cars go have a track day, not difficult?

40mph on rural roads ? We actually voted out plans for a 30mph limit in our village as its small groups of houses over 2 miles and not built up enough .It would take ages to get anywhere .On the village green people slow down anyway ,most of the time comon sense is used .A 40 limit wouldnt slow people down if not enforced and there is a lack of police to do this .

Well, it's still not 100% sure if painted signage fulfils the requirements of the Road Traffic regs (e.g. does paint on the road amount to "signage"?), but where carried out it does make it easier to comply with the maintainance requirements as you don't need to worry about veg clearance of signs.

If you do paint the road surface you've got to be really accurate so the markings conform to the Traffic Signs Regs (a white circle with 30 in the middle isn't enough) so they're more expensive than signs anyway. Some authorities use paint a lot though, lancs and carmarthenshire IIRC.

So, ultimately its not a matter of cost; to be sure the limit is enforceable the signage has to be spot on, which basically means you need to physically install signs and then make sure they're maintained during summer months. And a TRO of course saying "30 mph limit between X and Y". And you'd still need back-lit signs whenever going from a NSL to restricted zone, so you may as well carry on and put signs up pregularly along the whole length

Unless of course the authority isn't concerned with accurate signage and uses them to encourage drivers to generally slow down.

[/nerd]

There has been a blanket 40mph limit inside Dartmoor National Park for years. There are some roads where you think "crikey, this feels slow" but overall I don't think it has been a total disaster.

And also totally ignored by everyone but the tourists.

In three years of commuting over the moors every day I have never seen a police car.

Pointless change unless they are planning on enforcing it. Which they won't.

A country lane near me has been re-classified from a 60mph to a 40mph, reason is a lot of people went straight at the chicane, or straight lined it causing their car or another car to crash through the hedge into a field.

Most people driving the lane went at about 40mph anyways, now with the re-classification of 40mph most people don't go above 30mph now. I can see some dangerous overtaking happening now, but at least people won't go through a hedge into a field doing 50-70mph.

It's now quicker to go through the town stopping every 50 metres for traffic lights and roundabouts.

I don't see the point in reducing the speed of all 60mph roads, but can understand it if there have been previous incidents.

I'm not a tourist jam bo 😀

Very patchy policing of country roads with a 60 limit too, why bother having a limit at all then?

OP how much time would this measure actually lose you?

Are you important?

He could be business core. They'll be exempt from the proposals.

This thread does go some way towards explaining STW's fixation with Skodas

Great idea. A much more sensible blanket speed than 60mph for the roads round here.

We drive everywhere on 'country' roads - to slow me to 40mph would make long, tortuous journey's around Scotland even more so.
I regularly do 60mph these roads. I resent strongly someone telling me not to - I know the road, drive responsibly, but do need to 'get from A-B' in a reasonable time.
So would (for example) Rannoch Moor be classed as a country road? Clearly I think most would agree that this is a good spot to get past the tootling Skoda driving 40mph tourists and allow me to get on to my place of work tomorrow?
[img] [/img]
A 'blanket' rule will never be the right approach.

i cannot cycle that fast! 🙁

That must be an 80mph + road at least, straight good visibility ,no traffic ,no police.

How about mandatory re-testing to improve and maintain the standard of driving?

Probably going to be far more effective than lowering some arbitrary numbers...

And as for the stopping distance of my car, I can confirm that it will be considerably shorter than when 60mph was first considered safe

Blinking ridiculous you can't just say 40mph for all country roads, most of the idiots locally drive 40mph on roads which are easily 60mph because they are incompetent and should not be allowed to drive. Improving standards of driving would be a better start along with re testing for grey hair beware.

So would (for example) Rannoch Moor be classed as a country road?

No.

"Under the plans, which are open to public consultation, a reduction to 40mph should also be considered where there is "substantial development" or where there are "a considerable number" of horse-riders, pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists"."

At least have a wee read of the proposal before getting all affronted.

Edric 64 - Member

That must be an 80mph + road at least, straight good visibility ,no traffic ,no police.

120 mph easy.

Matt - its not a proposal for that sort of road at all - its for roads like the south loch earn road ie b and unclassified roads - not A roads

"a considerable number" of horse-riders, pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists"."

I really thought the New Zealand way of speed limits on its tight country roads was fantastic. They put speed limits before bends that reflect their difficulty.

I am with the comments above about it being driving standards, not some 'blanket' rule. We need people to drive with more awareness and consideration. The number of times here we follow a driver doing 40mph on that main road, even pulling over to stop you overtaking, but then they continue at that 40mph through all the (30mph) villages...

I regularly do 60mph these roads. I resent strongly someone telling me not to - I know the road, drive responsibly, but do need to 'get from A-B' in a reasonable time

The problem is, how to sort you out from the people who don't know the road and don't drive responsibly.

ian martin - Member

I really thought the New Zealand way of speed limits on its tight country roads was fantastic. They put speed limits before bends that reflect their difficulty.

The problem is, how to sort you out from the people who don't know the road and don't drive responsibly.

Improve the standard of driving

Simples

Yep, more testing through your driving career. Maybe once a decade, then every 5 years after 60?
I have passed 5 driving tests, and regularly sign off staff for driving minibuses on rural roads and towing trailers; or preparing them for D1 and D1+E tests. The toughest/ worst drivers are the older staff that come in 'knowing' how to drive.

ian martin - Member
I really thought the New Zealand way of speed limits on its tight country roads was fantastic. They put speed limits before bends that reflect their difficulty.

Were they speed limits? oops. I saw them as a challenge?

A lot of the roads around where my Dad lives have been blanketed with 50mph

mrmo - Member

And basically there are too many stupid drivers who think that just because the speed limit is 60 you have to drive at that speed

I don't see any problem with 40mph as most UK roads are rather narrow winding and twisting but I think 50mph is more realistic for most of drivers as they are accustomed to speed.

Also my current driving instructor instructed me to drive as close as possible to the speed limit to avoid slowly down the traffic ... 😯
So when I drove to that limit he later told me I was driving too fast ... 😆 Well, I remember driving at 50mph entering 30mph zone where he instantly wanted me to drive at 30mph so I applied engine braking ... 5th gear to 2nd gear ... LOL ... the engine almost flew out from the bonnet! I was trying to down shift from 5th to 4th but instead I forced it into 2nd gear ... LOL! I blame the car and the driving instructor's distraction. I remember my "boy racer" days where I needed to apply engine braking because the drum brakes on my VW Beetle was not that good. (my Beetle usually required a long time to build up speed to 70mph ...)

I can think of plenty of A and B roads where you can safely do 100mph plus... even with bends.

I can also think of times when its not been safe to do 30mph on a motorway.

Engine braking? Doesn't your car have a mechanism specifically designed to slow the car down?

druidh - Member

Engine braking? Doesn't your car have a mechanism specifically designed to slow the car down?

Yes, the brakes but it was just an old habit of mine using engine braking because of driving an old Beetle in the past. Well, now I will just apply brake ... 😆

Oh ya ... no need engine braking anymore because I now have a car with automatic gear ... so it's brake and hand/parking brake.

Also my current driving instructor instructed me to drive as close as possible to the speed limit to avoid slowly down the traffic ...

You can also fail your test for restricting the flow of traffic and not making good progress. As you will have to handle a car at speed once you've passed your test, it makes sense to teach you how to do it. Hey, it might even come under "improving driving standards"

. I remember my "boy racer" days where I needed to apply engine braking because the drum brakes on my VW Beetle was not that good. (my Beetle usually required a long time to build up speed to 70mph ...)

What were you trying to race? Milk floats?

zokes - Member

You can also fail your test for restricting the flow of traffic and not making good progress. As you will have to handle a car at speed once you've passed your test, it makes sense to teach you how to do it. Hey, it might even come under "improving driving standards"

Yes, that's what I was told. i.e. to avoid slowing down traffic to drive like everyone else at the normal speed.

Driving at a speed like everyone else is not a problem if I am familiar with the area but trying to drive like "normal" at a location that I am not familiar ... well, the driving instructor might shite in his pants if I do that.

jam bo - Member

What were you trying to race? Milk floats?

😆 @ milk floats ... Well, I was meant to drive faster but if the tyres on my Beetle were slightly wider than those of the motorbike and with drum brakes that needed pumping to brake proper in addition to engine braking... I think it would be safer to drive at Beetle pace.

I can think of plenty of A and B roads where you can safely do 100mph plus... even with bends.

wow, you must be awesome....

Its true AA - look at Matts pic above.

FunkyDunc - Member

I can think of plenty of A and B roads where you can safely do 100mph plus... even with bends.

Crikey ... do you actually check your car before driving at that speed? Even my boy racer mates dare not drive at that speed if the car does not belong to them. i.e. because the set up might not be up to scratch for that speed.

I can also think of times when its not been safe to do 30mph on a motorway.

Yes, not at 30mph but say normal cruising at 50mph to 60mph I think is fine on the left lane.

matt_outandabout - Member
So would (for example) Rannoch Moor be classed as a country road?

I can think of plenty of A and B roads where you can [s]safely[/s] do 100mph plus... even with bends.

[i]I don't see any problem with 40mph as most UK roads are rather narrow winding and twisting but I think 50mph is more realistic for most of drivers as they are accustomed to speed.[/i]

Eh - which part of the UK do you live/drive in?

Talk about a measure to extend travel times and create an influx of fines!

The nearest M-Way for me is 50 miles away, and the nearest (70mph) dual-carriageway 40 miles - everything else is a country road, under this blanket proposal. Nanny state pandering to crap-driving noobs.

I would say that my feeling on this is still what it was when I first heard it this morning though the detail is a bit airy-fairy at the moment.

I have to say, as one who frequently travels on "open roads" of all sorts in touring groups,[i] of a size and spacing suitable for the conditions[/i], that this will make life more unpleasant and dangerous for such cyclists.

Overtaking is a manouevre which should be accomplished in the shortest possible time [i]for the conditions[/i]. Many motorists seem to find it hard to overtake such cyclists safely as it is with a 40-45 mph speed advantage, they'll be struggling if that's cut to 20-25 mph. So.....we end up with them having to force their way in to the left through the cyclists when something approaches or annoyingly following for miles just off the rear mudguard.

Don't say we could just stop and pull over - when did you last do so in your vehicle just because the following driver was not competent enough to use perfectly safe overtaking opportunities?

And the last thing we want is more paint on the roads.

b r - Member
this blanket proposal.

Orange Crush - Member
Many motorists seem to find it hard to overtake such cyclists safely as it is with a 40-45 mph speed advantage, they'll be struggling if that's cut to 20-25 mph.

That's not been something I've seen in thirty years of such cycling - problems from overtaking vehicles happen just about every trip.

And 20 mph slower might still be too fast - that's the issue, being told a limit does not slow a driver down to the actual safe speed if he can't judge it anyway.

b r - Member

Eh - which part of the UK do you live/drive in?

Geordieland, so Northumberland is not that far away with country roads but then I am surrounded by ... Motorway, dual, single carriage ways etc all over ... left right and centre ...

The nearest M-Way for me is 50 miles away, and the nearest (70mph) dual-carriageway 40 miles - everything else is a country road, under this blanket proposal. Nanny state pandering to crap-driving noobs.

Crikey ... it looks like you live an a far far away land with no M-way ... do you still know what it looks like?

Our local council have recently declared that most roads are going to be 20 mph roads, even one that has a sign 10 foot from the end of the cul de sac turning space.

The police have said theyre not going to enforce the rules as they dont have enough staff.

Oh and it would be nice if some of the older drivers could actually achieve 40mph on straight roads on a sunday, when the speed limit is 60 or 70mph.

I'll be supporting the proposal. I live on a road where it changes from 30 to 60 just after the end of my street. No one slows to thirty before getting to the thirty sign, most people are doing 60 before leaving the thirty. We have regular police speed cameras which people can see from miles away and strangely enough they never catch anyone. At the moment the council won't consider changes to the road (speed calming etc) because there hasn't been enough accidents....strange world we live in....

Doing 100 mph plus is not safe on public road other than maybe motorways to many unknowns and idiot, even on Rannoch moor. Having said that neither my bike or car would go that fast without a fight.

....making the UK even more uncompetitive

Nanny state pandering ....

Has someone been using the [url= http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail/ ]Daily Mail-o-matic[/url] ?

anagallis_arvensis - Member

Doing 100 mph plus is not safe on public road other than maybe motorways to many unknowns and idiot, even on Rannoch moor. Having said that neither my bike or car would go that fast without a fight.

Nonsense. It can be quite safe - or at least no more dangerous than riding at the speed limit on some bends. I have done 120 on the Rannoch moor road and lived to tell the tail. You need a reasonably fast vehicle to getup to speed quickly.

Rannoch moor you can see literally for miles

AA why does doing 100 mph on a motorway make it safe?

The point of my post was that speed limits are ridiculous full stop as a lot of people don't drive appropriately for the conditions.

It can be very safe to do 100 mph on a country B road, yes random things could happen, and they can happen too on any road at any speed.

I used to love driving over the Cat & Fiddle, its an excellent road, and all too easy to see how peoples lack of skill killed them. It could be driven very quickly in relative safety, but now its dull.

IMO make cars less comfortable and cosseted. I used to have a car that was limited to 85mph and that was plenty fast enough as it didn't have huge grip, and it actually felt fast. The latest MX5 I had would do way over 100mph and still not feel as fast, don't even go there with a Merc SLK 3.5ltr.

The latest MX5 I had would do way over 100mph and still not feel as fast, don't even go there with a Merc SLK 3.5ltr.

Most modern small or large car can easily do 100mph no problem but the problem is that most people are not equipped with knowledge to handle emergency at the speed of 100mph. They assume their cars are set up for that speed constantly. The engine might be able to cope with that speed but the rest might not ...

I remember my current driving instructor asking me to hit the 70mph immediately so I followed his instruction by accelerating flat on (pedal stick to the floor ... I was just trying out his car) ... but during that short burst to reach 70mph I thought his car was "floating a bit" but he insisted it was fine. 😯 (My boy racer mates cars would stick to the road like glue with no floating feeling at all.)

project - Member
Oh and it would be nice if some of the older drivers could actually achieve 40mph on straight roads on a sunday, when the speed limit is 60 or 70mph.

Those left running were mostly in areas where people from outside the area would be going through.

I used to love driving over the Cat & Fiddle, its an excellent road, and all too easy to see how peoples lack of skill killed them. It could be driven very quickly in relative safety, but now its dull.

Its a public road, it exists to get people from A-B, if you want to go racing, go and do a track day.

The point of my post was that speed limits are ridiculous full stop as a lot of people don't drive appropriately for the conditions.

True, but drive on a motorway look in your rear view, you see a car a long way off, look again and its on your rear bumper, if your not looking for someone approaching at 100mph+ you can get problems.

People do drive with an expectation of what is going to happen, i have known locals crash into fallen trees, because they don't expect a fallen tree round a blind bend, Deer running out is another common one.

You may not agree with the speed limit, you may think it is too fast or too slow, but it is what it is, accept it and get on with worrying about something that matters like the summer we're not having!!!!!

[i]Doing 100 mph plus is not safe on public road other than maybe motorways to many unknowns and idiot, even on Rannoch moor. Having said that neither my bike or car would go that fast without a fight. [/i]

I think you mean, not safe for YOU. If you'd been on the Rannoch road you'd realise that in the right conditions its perfectly safe for someone in/on a well maintained vehicle (who is actually able to drive) to drive at +100mph - like many other roads in the country.

And it isn't roads, cars nor speed that kills - its drivers.

[i]Geordieland, so Northumberland is not that far away with country roads but then I am surrounded by ... Motorway, dual, single carriage ways etc all over ... left right and centre ...[/i]

So the A68 to me should have a reduced speed limit, due to bends/tractors/many crossings etc?

A forty limit will not stop people doing seventy. Sixty doesn't.

the problem is that most people [s]are not equipped with knowledge to handle emergency at the speed of 100mph.[/s] regard driving on public roads as a recreational activity rather than a convenient form of hydrocarbon assisted personal transport. They assume their [s]cars are set up for that speed constantly[/s] choice to break the law and get a "bit of a buzz" is more important than respect for the environment, local residents and other road users.

Anyone who chooses to flout traffic laws then have the audacity to make any statement on "cyclists' rights", "codes of conduct", "civil liberties" etc is a hypocrite and a fool.

Break one law, break them all......

If only everyone was as good a driver as the posters on this forum.

Hilldoidger - have you never broken a law? I simplydo not believe you have never broken a single traffic law

the hypocrisy comes in people bleating about getting caught breaking traffic law or those who bleat about people speeding while breaking the law themselves

I don't think a law change will help too much. Likely to just get the 'war on the motorist' lobby on their self-righteous high horse
Enforcement of current laws
Proper penalities when caught
Re-test every 5 years, practical and theory
Less of a culture of entitlement, greater sense of courtesy and responsibility
And maybe change car design so drivers feel less safe...

TandemJeremy - Member
the hypocrisy comes in people bleating about [s]getting caught[/s] [b]other people[/b] breaking traffic law [s]or those who bleat about people speeding[/s] while breaking the law themselves

Druidh - No hypocrisy from me. I fully admit what I do / have done and if / when caught do not bleat and whine about it.

I simply do not believe hilldodger has never broken a law in his life

As usual an STW petrol head thread is a fine fishing ground 🙂

Its a public road, it exists to get people from A-B, if you want to go racing, go and do a track day.

And with better driver training, it wouldn't have been as dangerous to drive at 60

And no, I'm far from a driving god. But I do at least look well ahead and adapt my driving to the conditions. This seems to be considerably more than most who drive at 40 arbitrarily everywhere. Dropping speed limits doesn't stop people driving like ****wits.

I think you mean, not safe for YOU. If you'd been on the Rannoch road you'd realise that in the right conditions its perfectly safe for someone in/on a well maintained vehicle (who is actually able to drive) to drive at +100mph - like many other roads in the country.

Until a deer runs out in front of you your fine. 100+ kilos of prime venison is going to make a mess.

100mph 44m per second. say 2secs to realise that there is a problem, so you've travelled 88m and you have only just hit the brakes. Now how good are your brakes? another 50m, or more average 100m? So you could easily have travelled 150-200metres from when you saw the problem to stop.

And if you think that the sight test is reading a number plate 20metres away.

And it isn't roads, cars nor speed that kills - its drivers.

No drivers don't physically kill, well i guess some do, but most need a tool to do it, a car for instance, a car being driven a 1mph, unlikely to kill someone if the car runs into them, a car being driven a 100mph, well to be fair, what gets hit is probably dead. Dead before it hits the ground a good few tens of metres away from the impact site...

There is a US survey of drivers that had 93% of drivers convinced they were above average drivers. makes me wonder how bad the other 7% were though!

TandemJeremy - Member
Druidh - No hypocrisy from me. I fully admit what I do / have done and if / when caught do not bleat and whine about it.