[Closed] 4 x 4 FAIL in the snow.

More like 22" wheels with summer tyres fail..........

Don't look quite so pimp now do we my son 😉

Rangeys are awesome in the snow if driven properly and with proper wheels and tires on. Will almost certainly leave the rest of the Chelsea tractor mob in their wake!

is that the keighley road in hebden?

Looking at the road I would say they we're not driving it properly (read to fast), driven properly it takes a lot more snow than that to stop one. 22's or not. Looks Horseshoe pass like to me.

I have passed a Range Rover on a level dual carriage way once. It was skating all over the place in the slush while the Ancient rear wheel drive automatic volvo i was in felt completely planted. Wide tyres just don't cut it, do they

I'm not sure wrong tyres is ever much of an excuse

It was the right hand bend below (obviously coming down) The photo makes it look alot less steep than it is. Baildon, near Bradford.

Odly my Seat Altea XL (me coming up the hill) is awsome in the snow, and was getting up and down stuff some 4 x 4's couldnt. Pirelli P7's are great in the snow!

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I'm liking the guess the road game though. Halfway from Alston to Melmerby for the win... Maybe.

Edit. Obviously not 🙂

Someone learning the difference between traction and grip the hard way.

Thread made me smile

"Looking at the road I would say they we're not driving it properly (read to fast)"

I used to say things like this all the time - until I wrote off my 4X4 the other day travelling under the speed limit, at a speed that felt safe given the conditions, on a road that looked fine, new tyres, plenty of miles under my belt.

I agree that those low profile tyres seem odd on a 4X4 but you never know. Just saying.

I used to commute on this road when I worked in Baildon. Thats actually a dodgy bend if you are not careful.
Driving to work one morning and hit a greasy patch on the road (had weeks of sun, then rain made the road slippy as surface oil hadnt washed off). Car ended up going towards the edge, opposite lock and flipped back a couple of seconds before I went over the side. Proper brown trouser moment.

Ok what is the diffrence between traction and grip

Ok what is the diffrence between traction and grip

Seconded. I'm eager to learn...

Stupid Tyre Fail, couple that with over confidence due to driving a 4x4 and the outcome is assured.

what's the difference between traction and grip

[i]Ok what is the diffrence between traction and grip [/i]

I've an AWD car, it has great traction and will climb pretty much any snowy hill around here, even on nearly-bald tyres - but going down the same snowy hill there is bugger-all grip...

what's the difference between traction and grip

Nothing.

Unless there is another word relating to either of them, eg "cornering" or "acceleration" then they mean the same thing.

I guess it's just one of those things people say as it sounds good 😉

at a speed that felt safe given the conditions

There is a huge difference between "felt" safe and "is" safe as you've probably learned the hard way.

There is a huge difference between "felt" safe and "is" safe as you've probably learned the hard way.

I agree. The other two motorist who crashed whilst they were removing my car probably also felt the road was safe.

My point is that I used to always think there was "some idiot going too fast" (often my words)every time I drove past a crash. Now I know better. I had my wife and three year old son in the car and thought I would never put them in harm's way. People were driving past taking pictures of my wrecked motor more than likely thinking the same thing I used to think. Stay safe out there folks.

Traction in the way I referred to it implies the ability to get going from a standing start. Grip is the maximum amount of speed the contact patches can tolerate and still be controlled.
One is a measure of power management the other speed management. A quick look in the dictionary would have helped the doubters.

[i]

Ok what is the diffrence between traction and grip

I guess Drive and Grip are better words to use.
4wd vehicles often have enough drive, but lack grip without suitable tyres.

Army truck fail...

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8369/8399511026_3cc4254a09_b.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8369/8399511026_3cc4254a09_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/66452821@N00/8399511026/ ]Skoda 1, Army Truck 0[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/66452821@N00/ ]ritcheyp20[/url], on Flickr

I often feel my 4x4 is worse stopping than a normal car due to the extra weight. It's better now it has winter tyres though.

he was probably using the phone whilst driving a tricky road in poor conditions.......... now that would be bad 😉

My Discovery turned into a tanker ship for a few scary seconds this afternoon due to braking a bit too hard with summer tyres on. Thankfully I'd kept my distance and after mad panic from the abs (not me 🙂 ) We stopped. Easily done.

if i had a quid for everytime my frontera was laughed at when i bought it id be a rich man .....

but ill tell you what - with all terrain winter rated tires on the back its a wee beasty while remaining refined(compared to the 90) inside at the same time.

ive pulled a few cars out of fields this year and the piece de resistance .....

driving out of the track to my house on the day it was snow and high wind = drifting snow some 3 foot tall....

meet a neighbour in his range rover reversing back along the track , winds his window down and says " its not passable tel "

Not being adverse to a bit of digging with my shovel and having tow straps for the rangey to pull me back if needed i carried on
straight road - deep powder snow , just got the speed up and went drift bashing using the nudge bar to its full potential- rangey following behind- every drift i hit would result in powder flying over the windows and roof + slow the car down a few mph. Great fun. started off at 50mph and by the end of the dirt track- about a mile was strugling to do 20mph with the wheels just spinning but JUST keeping forward motion going.

Laughs at trail rats frontera

Or to put it another way: 4 x 0 = 0.

I once drove over the Cascade mountains in the US in a blizzard. Two feet of snow fell in about 90 mins, total white out. I saw two crashes:

1, Honda Civic had spun, gone rear end into a drift, bloke had a shovel and someone helped tow him out.
2, Big American 4x4 (not sure, maybe a Lincoln or Chevy), woman going too fast, tried to overtake, wheels on the central reservation, rolled it, car destroyed. She was fine luckily but said to another car that stopped that she thought her car was safe for that sort of thing.

I think you can crash any sort of car in the snow if you're too stupid to understand what the limits are and drive accordingly

piemonster - Member
Laughs at trail rats frontera

You are not alone.

i laugh at it too dont worry.

its a piece of crap but it just impressed me in the snow for being a crap car with an even worse reputation - it was bought as the cheapest thing i could find that wasnt iminantly dying a horrible slow death.

Followed an MX-5 last week in pretty snowy conditions. Definitely broughte h wrong car for eth journey. Big wheels, elastic bands for tyres, 5mph on a straight road and big slide on anything resembling a corner, finished off with a complete 180 while trying to negotaite a mini roundabout at less than 5mph

FWIW couple of years back when the UK was crippled with some sleet went to denmark to visit a friend, she drove her Z4 like the roads were dry with winter tyres on. Only sideways when she wanted it to 🙂

friend has a frontera that he's raised and thrown on some beefy tyres. got it for 65quid and its still going strong after 6 years with no work needing doing to it, passes MOT every time despite him having dented every panel, ripped a door off and used it for towing all the range rovers and landys out from the fields on a very regular basis 😀 its a fantastic car!

It was the right hand bend below (obviously coming down) The photo makes it look alot less steep than it is. Baildon, near Bradford

I used to live in baildon and work in the restaurant(now a house) at the bottom of that corner and that was a regular occurence!
I pulled a few people's cars out of there with my old Landrover too 😆

She was fine luckily but said to another car that stopped that she thought her car was safe for that sort of thing.

Anyone who tries to start a conversation with a car needs to be viewed with suspicion.

Wondering how comfy a frontera is to sleep in.

2, Big American 4x4 (not sure, maybe a Lincoln or Chevy), woman going too fast, tried to overtake, wheels on the central reservation, rolled it, car destroyed. She was fine luckily but said to another car that stopped that she thought her car was safe for that sort of thing.

This does seem to be the prevailing attitude. There's always idiots out when the snow comes down. That's a given every year. But the vast majority drive fairly sensible. Unless of course they're in a 4x4. Where the vast majority, in my experience, drive 6 feet from your bumper. I don't care what you drive, that's not a safe stopping distance in the dry, nevermind 3 inches of snow.

You hand someone some clever technology and it seems they no longer feel the need to use their brains.

The fact that there isn't a single Frontera within 200 miles from me on Autotrader, suggests less than ideal durability.

The fact that there isn't a single Frontera within 200 miles from me on Autotrader, suggests less than ideal durability.

or nobody wants to sell them?

either way, no frontera for you young man.

Year before last I saw a Bugatti Veyron on that road, wondered what the hell it was at first - didn't think cars like that were ever seen in reality.

Followed an MX-5 last week in pretty snowy conditions. Definitely broughte h wrong car for eth journey. Big wheels, elastic bands for tyres, 5mph on a straight road and big slide on anything resembling a corner, finished off with a complete 180 while trying to negotaite a mini roundabout at less than 5mph

cooleague just sold an MX5 for this reason

But even worse is the SMART roadster. All of the above problems and no clutch control. Just some sort of switch that re enages drive with no control

I followed her for about a mile up shallow slushy hill in stop start traffic. Everyone else was fine, she was fish tailing like crazy

I wouldn't bother. Veryon's are rubbish in the snow. Get a Frontera

rust to death pie monster thats why - ill take rust over a knackered engine anyday. 2.2 DTI isuzu lump - suffered a leaky fuel return line , replaced that for 6 quid , did a full service for 35 quid - filters and oil and shes rocking and rolling.

mines already had the sills patched in the past and needs the rear xmember doing for the next MOT.

Weldings good fun though - nothing quite like lying upside down under a car getting sparks down yer covvies ....

depends what you enjoy doing - can count on the fingers of one hands the number of my mates prepared to do stuff like that them selves - some of them dont even know how to top up the oil - with one filling his passat up to the brim with oil...... - that was an expensive mistake with oil pishing out of every seal at high pressure.

Back on topic 😀

Everyone one missed the fact that said tit in 4 x 4 then had turned up in another 4 x 4, and parked it on a 90 degree up hill bed !! 😈

thus making it dangerous for anyone to get passed.

I always found my MX5 great fun in the snow..

Year before last I saw a Bugatti Veyron on that road,

I saw a lad in his 20s put about £20 of petrol in one a couple of years ago. Couldn't have got very far on that.

straight road - deep powder snow , just got the speed up and went drift bashing using the nudge bar to its full potential- rangey following behind- every drift i hit would result in powder flying over the windows and roof + slow the car down a few mph. Great fun. started off at 50mph and by the end of the dirt track- about a mile was strugling to do 20mph with the wheels just spinning but JUST keeping forward motion

That all very well and good until the snow jams up around the pulleys/fanbelts etc and you are stuffed. after spending a winter driving in -40 and snow in the USA in 4-4 pickups. you dont go snow ploughing unless you have a plough

😆 Reminds me of the RR that tried following me on the closed road over the tops to Hebden. They got stuck. I bet mr giant snowplow coming the other way was pissed off

it was bought as the cheapest thing i could find that wasnt iminantly dying a horrible slow death.

It wears both Vauxhall and Frontera badges, isn't that a good enough indication of impending doom?

I just got back from bimbling around the Alps on snow-covered roads and the winter driving out there is something to behold.

My favourite episode was the French guy in the beaten up little van who saw that he was sliding towards the front of our somewhat bigger vehicle at a fair old lick, and decided he'd better do something about it. He used one hand to put it into full lock away from us and then booted it as hard as he could towards a convenient snowdrift, which he ricocheted off down the road, allowing him to carry on the animated conversation he was having on the phone held in his other hand without so much as pausing to think. Quite impressive.

I do love, though, at this time of year that you can get up to, ooh, 5mph and get VERY sideways. As long as you've planned your run-off area, there's pretty much zero chance of causing much danger, and it's great fun. Even in an AWD car with winter tyres I can get the back end out quite nicely; my mate in a BMW (with winter tyres) can spin it at 5mph.

This is another one of those "I'm an awesome driver and everyone else is an idiot" smug OPs, isn't it?

I'm an awesome driver. Or I thought I was until yesterday... Seven years driving for a living through some bloody bad winters in Aberdeenshire too.

On the main drag from Aberdeen to Dundee, slushy snow all over the road, winter tyres fitted to the Volvo (not for sale). I was using cruise control set to 55mph. Had to slow behind an Audi doing 30 in the outside lane.

When he pulled in, I just forgot to match my speed to the 55mph cruise control - pressed the button and the engine immediately started accelerating back up to 55 as quickly as possible, causing the front end to swing left. After a lifetime of fishtailing over two lanes, I got control back and saw the faces of the drivers behind me with extreme clarity.

Stopped at the next services, walked round the car and found the probable cause - rear nearside tyre was almost flat. The garage air machine read 12psi!

Now I drive a Discovery 4 every day at work. They're astonshingly good in the snow(or mud, or rutted woodland tracks, or on tarmac... they're just good), but in the last load of snow a couple of weeks ago I used a Freelander to ferry a few members of staff home.

It was the most basic model without the settings of the top of the range models and it was on road tyres. With a little encouragement it was great. However, in the middle of the night when I had to get myself home I had just my trusty old Volvo 850 estate and a set of these:

http://www.autosock.co.uk/autosock-for-cars/

I will now say that I have [b][u]NEVER[/u][/b] been as impressed with anything in my life ever. They are simply amazing. It should be compulsory to carry these in the winter months if there's any chance of snow. I could get my car up steeper inclines than the Freelander I'd been driving that night. It was 3am and my tiring journey home turned into a game of Challenge the Volvo. It would go anywhere without any problem whatosever.

mildred - Member

I will now say that I have NEVER been as impressed with anything in my life ever. They are simply amazing. It should be compulsory to carry these in the winter months if there's any chance of snow.

They're alright, but not a patch on proper winter tyres, so making them compulsory wouldn't make much sense tbh.

first rule of off road - know your vehicle and know that the single belt on it is high mounted for the high mounted alternator. Fans are twin electric off a switch on the dash and id already turned them off

steering/sump guards and plastic/foam nudge bars do their job well anyhoo

like you say -40 and middle of USA id probably not have done it but at less than a mile from my house in -5 with propper provisions i figured it was a safe enough bet.

compared to yesterday where on 2 occasions during a 400km drive across the turkmen desert my driver jumped a land cruiser prado fully off the ground - trust me when those things hit the deck they hit the deck hard , thought i was going to break my neck ! what a noise.

But did you get the Holy Grail back to base?

it was the life of brian and blockbuster had gone into admin by the time we got there anyway. 😀

didnt see the rush either , but my driver didnt speak very good english and certainly didnt understand slow down....

konabunny - Correct 🙂 I actually did say I is awesome too, well my car anyhow. I was hoping my smugness didn't come across too much though, but obviously I failed in proper STW forum member style!

They're alright, but not a patch on proper winter tyres, so making them compulsory wouldn't make much sense tbh.

I use proper winter tyres regularly and I can say that in the snow, snow socks are definitely better in terms of out and out traction.. The downsides are that they have to be put on, taken off etc. depending in the road surface, there's a speed limit of about 30mph, and if you accelerate too hard they can get shredded fairly quickly.

This thread is beginning to get a bit.....
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Judgemental lot on here...

Who's to say he hadn't swerved to miss an audi driver who had took the bend on the wrong side of the road.

Just saying.

Who's to say he hadn't swerved to miss an audi driver who had took the bend on the wrong side of the road

You mean the Audi Lane? Audi lanes are perfectly safe and its only the people who insist on driving on them in the opposite direction who make them dangerous.

On the 4X4 note, I was almost run off the road by someone in a Rangerover yesterday driving in the middle of the road to avoid putting their wheels in 1 inch deep remainders of snow on their carriage way, perfectly happy to send the FWD mondeo driving into the verge. No slowing down, no sign appology. </rage>

unklehomered - Member

On the 4X4 note, I was almost run off the road by someone in a Rangerover yesterday driving in the middle of the road to avoid putting their wheels in 1 inch deep remainders of snow on their carriage way, perfectly happy to send the FWD mondeo driving into the verge. No slowing down, no sign appology.

This seems to be pretty common tbh, driving around in singletrack roads the people in massive gleaming 4x4s never seem to put a wheel off the tarmac, leaving me bouncing through the field verges and ditches to get past (used to be a Focus, now a Mondeo, both fine offroading vehicles)

Which is fun! So I'm not that bothered personally, but it is absurd. For some reason Warriors seem to be the absolute worst.

Not even a single track road, plenty of space for two considerate drivers... Assuming the RR doesn't hog the middle of the road in fear of a little bit of slush.

I think it's because they don't know where the wheels are on the LHS, and perversly are terrified of them leaving the tarmac. But yes the irony would be amusing, if they weren't coming straight for you, at 30mph, in a bloody tank of a thing.

"its gripped"....."its sorted"......."lets off road"....!!!! 😯

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