[Closed] 3 points or speed awareness course?

So, it's OK to do nearly 20% over the speed limit?

Yes. Thanks for asking.

So, it's OK to do nearly 20% over the speed limit?

So, it's OK to do nearly 20% over the speed limit?

To answer OP, I've got 3 pts for exactly the same speed. The police even complemented me on my driving, but over the limit is over the limit. If those points *have* affected my premium then I haven't noticed. I have business mileage on my policy.

****

Take the points...I was a culprit at the beginning of the year and it's a complete bobbins money making scheme

What did slow me down was mpg and fuel saving

I learned a few things doing this but mainly at the speeds I drive now.

Nigh on impossible to get nicked speeding
Driving slowly with a self centred cause in mind has way more effect than any get me out of it scheme ever would

Driving to save fuel means the speeds involved give you way more time and space to consider others

I took 3 points rather than the course*. Made no difference at all to my insurance premiums. That was a few years ago now, so things may have changed - hence I suggest doing what I did to check, get quotes for the insurance you're looking at with and without the points, which will be far more informative than all the opinions on here.

* for any pious on here, it was 14% over the limit for which I felt no guilt at all given it was 18% under what the limit on that bit of road used to be, which was still perfectly safe.

So it's OK to do nearly 20% over the speed limit?

I'm guessing you've never been on a motorway then.. 🙄

If your not remorseful then you'll regret those 3 points when you get another 3 and are up to 6.

You've already done a speed awareness course and it's done nothing/you've learned nothing, so take the points big boy.

I was under the impression you couldn't take the course twice?

Was about 4 years ago, believe you can't do it twice in 3 years. Think I'll take the points and slow down a bit, ta all.

Just do the course because when you end up on 9 points down the line when it could have been 6 you'll regret it!

I'm sure it'll be offered again (as long as not too far over the limit) I believe it's a nice little earner for a lot of Chief Constables.
Not that I'll be caught again seeing as how I'm really, really sorry about the baby robin's faces and that.

"83" dual carriageway - exactly where and what caught you ?

Not because of how it impacts your insurance - but those questions above relate to your motivation and attitude to this incident where you got caught.

Dual carriageways have laybys and junctions that are completely unlike motorways .
Sure if it was some automated speed related fine then do whatever suits you ,
otherwise please have a little think about how much of a hurry you are in.

3 points then unluckily get another 3, now 6 and cacking yourself you' ll get another 3. no thanks, take the course every time. and it is condescending sh!te.
though at 83 mph you might not get offered the choice

Remember the course defers your 3 points for 3 years, so if you get caught again you,ll have those 3 points added anyway

83mph? what have you got, a Ferrari?

(I was told on here my car couldn't be "slow" cos I was doing 43)

A Zafira. Same difference.

the points or course details go on your licence, and will weigh any quote for your own car insurance, failure to declare the course or points will invalidate your insurance if you have a claim.

The course doesn't go on your licence and I've never been asked by an insurance company if I've been on one.

And today's award for made up internet facts goes to:

whatyadoinsucka - Member
Remember the course defers your 3 points for 3 years, so if you get caught again you,ll have those 3 points added anyway

project - Member
... course details go on your licence, and will weigh any quote for your own car insurance, failure to declare the course or points will invalidate your insurance if you have a claim.

courses are not recorded on your license (although they are stored on a database somewhere), and you only need to declare them if asked, AFAIK only the Admiral Group ask about courses; and the points aren't sitting waiting to be added if you reoffend.

Actually it's more of an earner for the Chief Constables to not offer the course fine you and dish out the points. If you do the course the fine you pay funds the course - the people running the course don't do it for free.

Daft question, take the points.

Also I've done a couple of courses over the years and both were on a weekend.

Not really - the police make nothing from speeding fines, all the money goes to the treasury. However they do make money from the courses - they don't cost that much to run.

Sounds like you may not be teachable on this one. Take the points and save the instructors time...

My course a few years back had some on the road advanced driving stuff and was interesting and a good refresher. Why do people think they never need or would benefit from updating or teaching about this sort of thing?

Round our way they do evening courses. That's what I did when I got done, to avoid losing holiday.

Thought the course was good.

[quote=Stoatsbrother ]My course a few years back had some on the road advanced driving stuff and was interesting and a good refresher. Why do people think they never need or would benefit from updating or teaching about this sort of thing?

I expect I would. However I don't think most of them include that - certainly when I've seen them discussed on here the suggestion seemed to be that it was very basic stuff. Why is it arrogant or an indication of being unteachable to think that you wouldn't learn anything from being taught basic stuff in the HC when you already have a very decent knowledge of the contents of the HC?

I expect I would. However I don't think most of them include that - certainly when I've seen them discussed on here the suggestion seemed to be that it was very basic stuff. Why is it arrogant or an indication of being unteachable to think that you wouldn't learn anything from being taught basic stuff in the HC when you already have a very decent knowledge of the contents of the HC?

I dunno. The fact they got caught speeding. Again.

Who did?

err..... [b]aracer[/b] read the OP, and no ninja edits... 😉

Yes, as Jambo says... He did the course, got done again, and would rather take the points... And I didn't say arrogant, mate, your words. No point in signing up if you aren't interested.

The question is whether the course covered anything about the safety of driving above the speed limit on DCs, or whether the OP does follow all the guidance given on such courses. "arrogant" is just an interpretation of some people's general attitudes when I've made similar comments on previous threads about not expecting to get anything out of such a course. FWIW like the OP I got done for speeding on a DC and always try to stick to lower speed limits (and follow other good driving practice).

OP. I have nothing to add other than you are history's greatest monster.

finishthat - Member

"83" dual carriageway - exactly where and what caught you ?

Not because of how it impacts your insurance - but those questions above relate to your motivation and attitude to this incident where you got caught.

Dual carriageways have laybys and junctions that are completely unlike motorways .
Sure if it was some automated speed related fine then do whatever suits you ,
otherwise please have a little think about how much of a hurry you are in.

this needs repeating I think. I used to fly down some dual carriageway I thought I knew well on a bike in the days you could get away with it

turns out that after looking at those roads at a more reasonable speed they have a lot more hazzards than I was aware of and I have come to the conclusion that speed limits are generally well thought out by people who might know a thing or two about accident hotspots etc.

getting points sucks... but driver training can save lives 🙂

ps reminder on approx. stopping distances

60 mph 130 ft
80 mph 230 ft

I truly drive at pensioner speed done all my days on fast cars and bikes that I will ever need. However got nicked recently for 36mph in a 30, this was not your typical 30 zone it had fields on the left hand side and 2m fences (no gates drives exits nowt) on the other side. It was an unmarked car with a speed gun - he stopped me (I had could stop easily before his car) and informed me of my offence and I thought he was taking the piss! But not so. Got a fixed penalty/speed awareness offer which I declined and took the points. A week or so later I get a phone call from some git from speed awareness course asking why I choose the points? So I told the aforementioned git I earn a £1000 a day as a consultant and what would he do? He then started to lecture me on attitude at which point I put the phone down. Speeding kills and I don't support it however sensible location policing needs to be enforced and yet scallies run around in tin can exhaust window tinted corsas? But they can launch a ****ing police helicopter to track me while legally trail riding a motorcycle then land in front of us and check the size of the numberplate because there is **** all else illegal on the bike - rant over

agree on the crappy enforcement, so many ****s on the road, seems odd.

the scenario you describe may have been a road with no footpath and some pedestrian traffic perhaps?

Raised footpath on estate side flat road still don't get it - however I went mental with the police helicopter officers as they did not even understand or have access to a definitive map - didn't stop then running full vehicle checks including tyre, helmet legality

I truly drive at pensioner speed

Most of the people on my course were pensioners...

I was under the impression you couldn't take the course twice?

You can, but there has to be a three year gap. 😳

I'm a good boy now.

Some people 90/100mph on dual carriage ways around our way and no one dies horribly.

However to assume you will get no benefit from a course makes me think that you are the type of driver who thinks they are an awesome driver

It sounds like there is a large variance in standards of speed awareness courses. If I knew I was going to get a good one, especially with some practical training then I'd do it. However the one I did was crap. I do consider myself to be an above average driver but then don't we all? I don't tailgate, pay attention to stopping distances and obey 20s and 30s,rarely stray over 40s.the last time I got caught was also on a dual carriageway in near identical circumstances, I'm not remorseful about that one either (except for the getting caught bit). If that makes me arrogant then OK, fine with me.

At 83 in a 70 I doubt you'll be offered the course anyway so it's probably a moot point.

the last time I got caught was also on a dual carriageway in near identical circumstances, I'm not remorseful about that one either (except for the getting caught bit). If that makes me [s]arrogant[/s] not as good a driver as I like to think I am then OK, fine with me.

I've done 3 courses. Found them broadly useful. Always good for a few simple reminders of practices to keep your speed down. Even things like thinking about your fuel consumption.

and there we have the sanctimony. Exactly how does exceeding the speed limit on a DC make it impossible to be an above average driver?

85mph is the cut off for speed awareness course in a 70mph limit.

You need to define what an average driver is average at.

There are lots of guys i work with (car company) who are far far above average drivers. They rack up hundreds (thousands?) of test track hours and race track hours too, rally, build their own (to race) take additional driver training courses and so on.

Most of them i'd not want to share a lift with.

85mph is the cut off for speed awareness course in a 70mph limit.

There is no standard cut-off, it varies by police force. 10%+9 in Lancashire (so I was wrong (pre-coffee) earlier when I said it was unlikely to be offered), other forces may differ.

I'm not even slightly remorseful

thought it was a load of condescending nonsense

Take the points, clearly you are a god amongst drivers... 😆

Recognition, finally!

You need to define what an average driver is average at.

When I did the course a couple of years ago, when asked I said I felt my driving was above average. I then received a lecture on over confidence.

Point was, I wasn't being arrogant, rather that I felt that the "average" driver was bloody awful.

Most of them i'd not want to share a lift with.

Why not?

thought it was a load of condescending nonsense

A lot of it is, because it's aimed at those "average" drivers I just mentioned. The attendees in my group variously admitted: to knocking over a cyclist (waits for everyone to laugh); to only knowing the six road signs that he needed to memorise to pass his test; to not knowing the speed limits in NSL areas (pretty much everyone); to not actually knowing the difference between a single- and a dual-carriageway (again, pretty much everyone); to only ever using the middle lane of the motorway because changing lanes is dangerous; I could go on.

Bits of it were interesting and useful, but mostly it's Noddy stuff. The folk who come away going "well, I learned tons!" either went on a different course from me or really should be considering refresher lessons.

I'm not going to cast aspersions about speeding as I'm not prepared to be hypocritical. But as always there is some mild mirth to be found in such threads 🙂

My personal favourites:-

[b]I've done 3 courses. Found them broadly useful[/b].Always good for a few simple reminders of practices to keep your speed down. Even things like thinking about your fuel consumption.

3 courses and you say they are useful 🙂 Clearly missing their intended purpose then! Maybe they don't have a sections on looking ahead, using your eyes and spotting the sodding cameras*!

and

To answer OP, I've got 3 pts for exactly the same speed. [b]The police even complemented me on my driving, [/b]but over the limit is over the limit. If those points *have* affected my premium then I haven't noticed. I have business mileage on my policy.

Really? They police pulled you over and complimented you on your driving? You either need to adjust your sarcasm detector or you have a chin long enough to make Jimmy Hill envious 😉

* not say speeding isn't an issue but getting repeatedly caught is a pretty big indicator of totally shite awareness (or speed control in an average zone).

OP ime any offence that starts with SP30 that didn't result in a ban makes no difference to the insurance

83 in a 60 you're looking at 5 points and £300

35 in a 30 zone cost me three hours of my life sitting in an arts centre outside Newbury listening to a pious **** with a nasal voice.

However the van driver on the course who complained and challenged every point discussed made the whole thing entertaining.

Did it change my attitude? Yes a bit, I am now a lot more careful in built up areas, but my errant ways out of town have not changed one bit.

83 in a 60 you're looking at 5 points and £300

They cover the actual speed limit on a NSL dual carriageway on the course...

We're all capable of erring unintentionally over a speed limit but it seems many choose to do so on some premise that they're 'special'. Serious question, why? And if the worst were to happen and you were involved in an accident with serious consequences would you manage to convince yourself your excess speed played no part in it? How about if you were sat explaining that to the others impacted?

Do the course because you need to properly listen and understand why you shouldn't choose to endanger others with your risk taking. Sh*t happens no matter how great a driver you are and excess speed increases the severity of the consequences.

The course doesn't go on your licence and I've never been asked by an insurance company if I've been on one.

Some do, some don't.

It's not a question on the compare the market sites, but it is in the small print when you click through to a lot of them, in fact the only one I actually got a sensible quote out of (and had no question or small print) was quotemehappy.com. Some didn't ask the question on their online forms, but it was still in their list of assumptions that you'd not been on one so had to call them to tell them about it.

3 courses and you say they are useful Clearly missing their intended purpose then! Maybe they don't have a sections on looking ahead, using your eyes and spotting the sodding cameras*!

No denial here. However, they worked well enough that I wasn't tagged in between times. So the effects lasted a while, then I lapsed. Also I drove the same route for a long time so yes concentration goes. There is a long stretch where the limits changed between 50 and 70 with no real pattern so I'd miss the transition. The camera awareness, I have to accept I didn't always see them. They were mobile units and sometimes by the time you see them, it's too late or jumping on the brakes is just not safe.

But yup, that's just how it happened

And if the worst were to happen and you were involved in an accident with serious consequences would you manage to convince yourself your excess speed played no part in it?

This was quite a convincing part of the course for me.

And if the worst were to happen and you were involved in an accident with serious consequences would you manage to convince[s] yourself[/s][b] a jury[/b] your excess speed played no part in it?

You're not exactly setting a very high bar there, jam bo!

And if the worst were to happen and you were involved in an accident with serious consequences would you manage to convince a dead persons family your excess speed played no part in it?

better?

[quote=ghostlymachine ]You need to define what an average driver is average at.

Mean, median or mode?

Clearly we're talking about driving safely on public roads here, so mentioning people who are good racing drivers but drive poorly on public roads is kind of strawmanny. As Cougar points out, the general standard of driving is so poor that you don't have to be a driving god to be above average - I'd expect everybody posting on this thread or similar ones is probably an above average driver, simply because they are actually thinking about the standard of their driving, not something most people do.

[quote=Cougar ]

thought it was a load of condescending nonsense

Which is exactly why I'd not expect to get much out of one - not given I have a decent working knowledge of the HC and the law (and will go and check if I find something I'm not sure about), and as mentioned above try hard to do things which contribute to safe driving such as anticipation and leaving decent gaps, and always stick to speed limits in towns (I often drive below them where I feel it's necessary).

[quote=CharlieMungus ]The camera awareness, I have to accept I didn't always see them. They were mobile units and sometimes by the time you see them, it's too late

Exactly - when I got nabbed, the camera was a forward facing one trained at the horizon, so by the time you spotted it, even if you have excellent vision and are using most of your attention looking for speed cameras, it's too late. Looking ahead and "spotting the sodding cameras" often makes no difference.

There is a long stretch where the limits changed between 50 and 70 with no real pattern so I'd miss the transition.

Take the points.

When i rode a motorbike i was caught a few times, always informed my insurer, but my premium never increased. It didn't seem to matter how many points i accumulated (was sitting on 10 at one point*). This was long before the speed awareness thing was introduced so things may have changed. Maybe check with your insurer first?

* Should have been banned really as passing an unmarked police car at 125+ is seen as a little reckless by the courts - the fact that i already had 6 points at the time didn't really help 😛

p.s. Cheers Cougar 😀

Why has everyone let oldmanmtb get away with this? I is disappointed in you all:

I get a phone call from some git from speed awareness course asking why I choose the points? So I told the aforementioned git I earn a £1000 a day as a consultant and what would he do?

Reads to me like big money earners don't need no lessons! 😆

I presume you're missing the alternative interpretation that doing a course would cost him £600?

i once got caught 3 times in a week, hidden mobile unit on the same stretch of road. Doing 36 in a 30, completely uninhabited stretch of country lane. i didnt know id been caught till i received the letters in the post a few weeks later! probably wouldve been caught 5 times if the bastards hadnt moved on elsewhere.

had to take 6 points and do the speed awareness instead of the other 3.

absolutely no help there, sorry. jsl.

There is a long stretch where the limits changed between 50 and 70 with no real pattern so I'd miss the transition.
Are the changes not signposted then? Or did your loss of concentration blind you to them?

They are but sometimes, you just happen to be looking the other way.

I do also wonder about the emphasis on keeping an eye out for cameras, or even having a heightened awareness for them. It strikes me that someone who is more likely to spot a camera may be less likely to true hazards. e.g. gorilla experiment

I presume you're missing the alternative interpretation that doing a course would cost him £600?

All relative, innit. If my earnings were such that a day off would mean I was £600 out of pocket, I'd be totally out of shits to give about the loss of £600. If the loss of a day's wage was £60 I'd be far, far more concerned.

I truly drive at pensioner speed

If you mean you drive slowly, then no, you don't.

But then there's still the issue of spending half a day being preached at rather than doing a job you might enjoy - a lot of the argument for doing the course does appear to be to avoid a financial hit on your insurance.

But then there's still the issue of spending half a day being preached at rather than doing a job you might enjoy - a lot of the argument for doing the course does appear to be to avoid a financial hit on your insurance.

No one earning £1000 per day does a job they enjoy.

But then there's still the issue of spending half a day being preached at rather than doing a job you might enjoy - a lot of the argument for doing the course does appear to be to avoid a financial hit on your insurance.

Yeah, fair point.

I think for me it was primarily to avoid points because I didn't want points on my licence, rather than for any practical reason. That and I was curious about the course.

A week or so later I get a phone call from some git from speed awareness course asking why I choose the points

Did he start of being gittish when he phoned up to find out why you didn't take up the opportunity to do the course, which in general improves driving intentions and behaviour or was it after you told him about your £1000 pound a day job?

It's clear there are some people here who would not benefit from the coures at all, but perhaps not for the reasons they imagine

People who blamed others for their speeding and had a mindset that they shouldn’t be on the course were less likely to change their behaviour, and those who already had penalty points had a “lower attitude” to the course benefits. Older people had the best attitude, particularly older women. Annual mileage did not have any significant impact on the results. -

ransos - Member

[i]I truly drive at pensioner speed[/i]

If you mean you drive slowly, then no, you don't.

If he's anything like the pensioners on the Wirral that's 38mph at all times, no matter what the road.
A friends wife racked up 9 points because she got into 5th gear almost as soon as she was moving so would be doing 35mph on no throttle!