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[url= https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215 ]2nd EU Referendum Petition[/url]
Currently has approaching 1.7 million signatures and rising.
So, obviously a lot of the signatures will be from the remain camp, but just how many signatures do you think it would take to actually make a difference?
BTW, don't think it will ever happen, but curious never the less
What if they don't get 16 million signatures
Smacks a bit of sore loser somewhere trying to move goalposts to win no?
15,188,406 just voted to leave, so at least 15,188,407 I guess.
The only thing which might get a 2nd referendum is if the markets really crucify the £ next week. Say we get to below 1 Euro, then Boris etc might realise they've bitten off more than they can chew and look for a way out.
This is really the one of the worst aspects of Generation Snowflake laid bare.
A generation of pampered, self-absorbed kidults who are certain that somehow their vote must be worth more than one of someone who has a different opinion.
Do give me a shout when the petition gets to [s]17,410,742[/s] 17,410,743. Until then it is just the unedifying spectacle of would-be grown ups threatening to "scweem and scweem and scweem until I'm sick".
This is really the one of the worst aspects of Generation Snowflake laid bare.
Don't be so harsh on yourself!
footflaps - Member
The only thing which might get a 2nd referendum is if the markets really crucify the £ next week.
The pound will bounce up and down all over the shop for the next few months imo. Watch as jubilation and fear take hold numerous times over the next few months.
I doubt we'll see any major swings until we start to see the terms of staying in the Euro Trading Zone etc as that is pretty much the key issue. If they insist on Schengen and Boris says Never, then the £ will really tank, whereas if he goes 'ok', it's pretty much business as usual for the economy.
I think the 'would be' grown ups are thinking about their long term futures and are justifiably angry and upset over this. It appears for them to be another kick in the teeth for their generation, and they are the ones paying for mistakes of the previous generation.
I am one of those.
What happened to democracy???
Its not the result I was hoping for, but I'm happy to accept that its the view of the majority.
....Next stop, North Korea......
It appears for them to be another kick in the teeth for their generation, and they are the ones paying for mistakes of the previous generation.
Well, to be fair, everyone is going to pay for Brexit, so for once, we're all in it together 🙂
What happened to democracy???Its not the result I was hoping for, but I'm happy to accept that its the view of the majority.
Nothing, doesn't mean you have to like it and doesn't mean you can't try and change it? After all, why have a GE every 4/5 years; you could just have one and say that's it, for ever.......
Very true, but I think we feel as though we will be picking up the pieces for the rest of our lives potentially.
Given the difference between remain and leave was only 1.25 million, most MPs are remain, and generally remaining is is seen as better for jobs and prosperity, it's going to be interesting.
it's going to be interesting.
In a sort of sticking pins in your eyes kind of way 😉
Very true, but I think we feel as though we will be picking up the pieces for the rest of our lives potentially.
Yep, if you're under 30 you're pretty much screwed. Only you're more screwed post Brexit than before, but you were screwed anyway, so it's really just a technicality.
This is really the one of the worst aspects of Generation Snowflake laid bare.A generation of pampered, self-absorbed kidults who are certain that somehow their vote must be worth more than one of someone who has a different opinion.
There was less than 2 million votes in it. If this was a general election that is not a big enough majority for one party to be in power, why should it be enough (either way) to make a decision arguably bigger than any general election?
It's unfortunate that the wording of the petition makes little or no sense...
[b]EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum[/b]We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum.
There was less than 2 million votes in it. If this was a general election that is not a big enough majority for one party to be in power, why should it be enough (either way) to make a decision arguably bigger than any general election?
It doesnt matter if it was 2 million or 2 votes which decided the result.
Those were the rules and if people wanted it to be different (a la that petition) that should have been set out before hand.
Trying to change the rules after the event isnt really democracy.
The problem with this sort of referendum (and with Indyref for example) is that for one side: The Leave/Yes side, the question can be revisited later. For the other, the result is definitive & final. Britain will not be able to rejoin the EU once we have left. There is an imbalance between the two options.
In a General Election you may be stuck with the government for a few years, but you can pretty much reverse anything if you want to enough next time out.
I don't think it is unreasonable to say that when the change in question is a fundamental, irreversible decsion, then you need more than just a 50.1% majority. In a lot of countries a constitutional change requires a minimum level of support. Apart from anything else, it allows for a relatively small percentage of people changing their minds/having second thoughts
Is it truly democratic that with such a close vote, millions of young people and their views have been ignored?
There were rules before hand.
The rules said the referendum was advisory not binding.
No rule change necessary.
Correct me if I got that wrong.
A generation of pampered, self-absorbed kidults who are certain that somehow their vote must be worth more than one of someone who has a different opinion.
Nope. We've also not invoked article 50 yet, so nothing has actually happened other than the £ tanking and $2T global sell off.....
It was a Referendum no one was supposed to actually vote yes to, we were all supposed to say no and the Tory part Euro-sceptics would be shut down for a year or to and we all go back to our normal lives.
We were never actually supposed to pull the trigger (whilst staring down the barrel of the gun)!
In a lot of countries a constitutional change requires a minimum level of support. Apart from anything else, it allows for a relatively small percentage of people changing their minds/having second thoughts
Anyone sane would say a 2/3 majority is needed for decisions of this scale...
The Leave campaign is wrong to say there'll be a 2nd referendum if we vote to remain in the EU. This is a referendum and not a neverendum.
Taken from Mr Cameron's Twitter feed from a month ago , now deal with the but hurt and get on with your lives
I think that's my take, even if they get 18 million (which it won't), it's not as if it can be swept under the carpet, Cameron come back and start the whole process again.
It's more likely that it'll just not happen due to subsequent events, than that there'll be another referendum, IMO.
Oh, and...
It's unfortunate that the wording of the petition makes little or no sense...
Farrage was wrong to claim that and had the result been reversed he wouldn't have got a 2nd referendum - it simply wouldn't have happened. It won't happen now either - a simple question was put to the electorate, they voted, the decision is made.
If it had of been an up to date on line poll in the first place we would still be in. 75% of the younger generation that voted, voted in but only 43% of them voted.
The referendum is advisory, not binding.
Now in the absence of anything else the government would be expected to follow it.
However on a very close result things get interesting.
The petition forces a parliamentary debate. MPs generally favour remain.
If I debating a close result they come to the conclusion that on balance, after taking the views of the public into account, and effects on national security and stability into account, break up of the United Kingdom into account etc, etc, an Article 50 move is unwise, then the government can make that call.
No rules broken. Decision made.
If.
Check when it was created. People had plenty of time to back this before the event if they were so concerned.
The referendum is advisory, not binding.
One can pray 🙂
Just need the £ to really tank next week and stay low and the MPs will soon realise they have no choice but to stay.
As above Referemdum was advisory. If govt thought it could ignore it it would have done so.
It doesn't matter if they get 20 million signatures. The only poll/petition that matters was on the 23rd
As an aside I heard on the radio that of the 2 million people who registered online in the 2 extra days it was thought a big chunk didn't actually vote on the day. Being heard in a democracy involves actually getting off your @rse and making an effort
Have been sent the link by 4 people today. Cant see the point.
We have had the referendum and the result is known. Now as much as I am angry that it has been won on the basis of deceitful lies and xenophobia, that is irrelevant, we have to move on. Acceptance time.
Having said that I think if matters become chaotic here and in Europe, then there is a very real chance that some kind of deal might be offered - there are only losers here. At that point, it may become interesting.
Until then, we juts have to get on with life. Shit happens....at least we are in no doubt about where the responsibility lies this time!!
igm - Them's the lines I was thinking along.
I've been on the receiving end of some big electoral disappointments in my time - but this one feels very different.
There's a real sense of "WTF have we done" and mixed in with the Leave campaign lies and the economic effects, I really wouldn't be surprised if parliament makes an executive decision.
Shit happens....at least we are in no doubt about where the responsibility lies this time!!
[s]Immigrants[/s] [s]Jeremy Corbyn[/s] [s]Nigel Farrage[/s] [s]Morons[/s] David Cameron?
Jamba - you hope one way, I'll hope another. The honest answer is I personally will probably be ok either way. Not so for my children's opportunities or a lot of other people who will lose out with remain.
Cameron couldn't ignore it because he specifically said he would trigger A50 immediately. Which is probably why he walked / is walking. It creates space.
It is irresponsible I feel just to say, 'yep, the result is done, we just have to move on'. No we don't. It was the most important decision of our lifetime. It isn't like an election, where it is 5 years, then we can have another go.
Oh, and the current government has proved time and again that it has no problem breaking its promises to the public.
It doesn't matter. We have to suck it up and move on. The people have spoken.
I however will be knitting by the guillotine when Boris, Gove, Farage and Co. get found out. Never forget June 23rd. Ever.
Which is probably why he walked / is walking
Apparently he said:
"Why should I do all the hard s**t for someone else, just to hand it over to them on a plate?"
You could argue that he created this f*** up, so he can fix it.
footflaps - Member
"Shit happens....at least we are in no doubt about where the responsibility lies this time!!"
Immigrants.
Are BoJo, Gove and Farage immigrants? They do look a bit foreign EDIT: 😉
They do look a bit foreign
Good enough for me, can we stone them now?
Strange that I can sign the petition as a British citizen but not actually vote. Done anyhow for what it's worth.
A generation of pampered, self-absorbed kidults who are certain that somehow their vote must be worth more than one of someone who has a different opinion.
exactly this
its funny how they cant get on the housing ladder but the polish lad and lass out our place have managed it and they came here with sweet FA
its called work you lazy ****less whiners , you wont have heard of it it wasnt in the university education your still paying for you thought would entitle you to a job.
[quote=Harry_the_Spider ]The people have spoken.
Yeah - I've seen them on the TV speaking about how they regret voting to Leave
its funny how they cant get on the housing ladder but the polish lad and lass out our place have managed it and they came here with sweet FA
But we'll soon put a stop to that won't we eh?
But we'll soon put a stop to that won't we eh?Sadly this is possible
Is it truly democratic that with such a close vote, millions of young people and their views have been ignored
Yes its true democracy
Oh, and the current government has proved time and again that it has no problem breaking its promises to the public.
Name me one government that hasnt done this.
Yes its true democracy
True democracy allows you to undo what has already be done via the means of new elections: This doesn't haven't that option.
Phil - you've lost me. But for the record, my university education has paid off ok. And I'm doing ok housing wise too. We do need some more immigrants though as we struggle to fill jobs round here. Employed some very good Greeks recently.
Name me one government that hasnt done this.
Why? There's only one in power at the moment.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/25/eu-referendum-voting-rights-not-extended-all-uk-citizens-abroad ]Those most affected by the vote couldn't vote.[/url]
Should I complain to the European court of human rights? Prisoners didn't win when they tried but in this case it's seems unfair to penalise those who took advantage of freedom of movement their own government made available by joining the EU.
Yeah - I've seen them on the TV speaking about how they regret voting to Leave
I'm not doubting that, but for whatever reason they have and we're all going to have to live with it. The whole Cornwall thing is a prime example. Wave goodbye to £600,000,000 in grants over the next 10 years from the EU because they don't like the government, then ask the government for £600,000,000. Mind****ingly short sighted. But they did it.
The whole Cornwall thing is a prime example. Wave goodbye to £600,000,000 in grants over the next 10 years from the EU because they don't like the government, then ask the government for £600,000,000. Mind****ingly short sighted. But they did it.
They will reap what they sowed and good luck to them 😉
Have spoken to three people today who now regret voting out. One because they thought £350 million was going to be spent on the NHS, another because they are upset that Mr Cameron has resigned and the third has just changed his mind!
How many more people are just beginning to realise that voting out may not have been such a good idea?
How many more people are just beginning to realise that voting out may not have been such a good idea?
Over time... millions.
Over time... millions.
Well it will give them something to contemplate whilst they queue at the local food bank, they can bask in the warm glow knowing they voted for their new lifestyle.......
I'm not doubting that, but for whatever reason they have and we're all going to have to live with it. The whole Cornwall thing is a prime example. Wave goodbye to £600,000,000 in grants over the next 10 years from the EU because they don't like the government, then ask the government for £600,000,000. Mind****ingly short sighted. But they did it.
So if they'd all voted to unleash a nuclear strike on Russia we'd just get on with pushing the button? Straw man I know, but at some point you have to say that if the decision is just plain wrong, for whatever reason, then perhaps you have to fight it. This is a one-off & if it means not accepting 'democracy', in the form of a referendum in which an awful lot of people admitted to not really understanding the issues, then so be it.
This is really the one of the worst aspects of Generation Snowflake laid bare.A generation of pampered, self-absorbed kidults who are certain that somehow their vote must be worth more than one of someone who has a different opinion.
Do give me a shout when the petition gets to 17,410,742 17,410,743. Until then it is just the unedifying spectacle of would-be grown ups threatening to "scweem and scweem and scweem until I'm sick".
Very well put.
Very well put.
Pretty sure most people objecting aren't from generation snowflake, whatever that is - they just object to being screwed over by morons.
object to being screwed over by morons.
In the words of my old drill sergeant; "un-f***ing-lucky"
Most of the politicians [s]know[/s] probably think leaving is the wrong thing to do. If anyone can wriggle out of it it's politicians.
And I am sure we can put some equally nasty generalisations about your generation, so slurring a whole generation is not helpful.
Sorry, was someone kidding when they said this petition was started by a STW'er?
In the words of my old drill sergeant; "un-f***ing-lucky"
No where near as unlucky as most of those who voted Out and will suffer way more than I will!
Most of the politicians know probably think leaving is the wrong thing to do
Boris does. IIRC he wasn't particularly eurosceptic until he saw an opening for a shot at the title.
So, obviously a lot of the signatures will be from the remain camp, but just how many signatures do you think it would take to actually make a difference?
We live in a friggin democracy. A 2nd referendum would make a mockery of that. I am totally shocked and I think DC should come out and give it short shrift.
Article 50 needs to be signed Monday and let's get the ball rolling. This type of behavior could lead to civil unrest and that will certainly wreck the economy!
My view of a sore vote remainer.
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Pretty sure most people objecting aren't from generation snowflake, whatever that is
I'm sorry, but could you explain how it is that you are pretty sure that most of the people aren't something that you don't know the definition of ?
Boris looked like a beaten man yesterday.
Right, I guess it wasn't really you then, flanagaj.
Boris does. IIRC he wasn't particularly eurosceptic until he saw an opening for a shot at the title.
That's what I reckon. Will Boris really want to preside over 3 years of (at best) uncertainty and instability or (at worst) disaster to then lose spectacularly in 2020 (if he can't find £350million a week for the NHS and all the other things people think he was promising) and drift off into the shadows? I doubt it.
That's what I reckon. Will Boris really want to preside over 3 years of (at best) uncertainty and instability or (at worst) disaster to then lose spectacularly in 2020 and drift off into the shadows? I doubt it.
Which is why CMD has just served him a large shit sandwich.
Why don't we do a 'best of 3'?
3 referendums on the same subject, no-one could complain then could they?
Yes, but with a few months to try and find a way to wriggle out of it???
Part of me wants this to go and reveal how rotten all of them are.
To be fair, when you sign your life away you have to answer these:
"1. Are you aware that if you go ahead to the last screen and press the ‘Yes’ button, you will be given a lethal dose of medications and die?
2. Are you certain you understand that if you proceed and press the ‘Yes’ button on the next screen that you will die?
3. In 15 seconds you will be given a lethal injection… press ‘Yes’ to proceed."
That's 3/3, not even best of!
It won't be a huge surprise though
philxx1975 - MemberIt's funny how they can't get on the housing ladder but the Polish lad and lass at our place have managed it and they came here with sweet FA.
It's called "work" you lazy, ****less whiners! You won't have heard of it, it wasn't in the university education you're still paying for that you thought would entitle you to a job.
Most of your posts and complete and utter rubbish, but this one takes the biscuit.
70% of graduates voted FOR Remain, 85% of those in education voted FOR Remain. Not being able to get on the housing ladder has far less to do with immigration than it does with the fact that graduate jobs pay ~£28k and the average house price in the UK is close to 8 times that number. House prices were driven up far more by Buy2Let mortgages than by immigration, as these two groups are (on a percentage basis) looking at different sectors of the market.
P.S. I took the liberty of correcting some of your spelling and grammar - this is despite the fact that I've worked ~70 hours this last week culminating with a 16 hour day yesterday.
Best regards, a lazy, self entitled, fee paying, remain voting, liberal minded GRADUATE from "Generation Snowflake"
No where near as unlucky as most of those who voted Out and will suffer way more than I will!
Nobody knows that. If we do leave and prosper, I look forward to all of you putting your hands up and admitting that you were just guessing, as everyone is.
Part of me wants this to go and reveal how rotten all of them are.
Good read: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/boris-johnson-michael-gove-eu-liars