You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Tattoos are illegal in this country for anyone under 18 so that's not a valid argument
I think the very fact that it's illegal reinforces the argument rather than invalidates it. Why is it illegal when circumcision isn't? What's the difference?
and pierced ears will heal up if it is decided later that they are not wanted so that comparison isn't valid either.
Again, yes, it is. Most people (I'd expect) would be appalled at seeing a baby with pierced ears, and that's almost wholly reversible.
Bored with this now. Can't be bothered any more. Argument's done and dusted, I'm right (like, as if there would ever be anything different), and besides, I've got some polishing to do...
Why is it illegal when circumcision isn't? What's the difference?
Personally I don't see any difference and I'd be more than happy if cricumcision of children ([i]medical[/i] requirements not withstanding) were treated in the same way.
Elfin have you ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever...ever...said the words 'mmm yeah I take your point'?
He did when he performed my circumcision
Praps wait until the child is at least old enough to understand what it's all about though. I've got friends with daughters, who've had them as young as three wanting pierced ears, most have made them wait until they're a bit older, but it seems the kids really want them, and are prepared to suffer a bit of temporary discomfort to look nice.
Exactly. So, why doesn't this rule apply to circumcision? Wait until the child is old enough to make their own decision, say an age of consent of, what, 16?
Do we think that if we offered 16-year-old boys the opportunity to cut off a bit of their penis, there'd be a stampede of interest? That they'd be sitting there at 14 in the throes of puberty thinking, "man, I can't wait till I'm 16 and I can get rid of this damned foreskin"?
He did when he performed my circumcision
You know you're not supposed to use your teeth, right?
(-:
Do you know of anyone who has been circumcised who wishes they hadn't? In fact, we're all pretty glad we had it done. So thanks for your concern but really, we weren't abused
You know you're not supposed to use your teeth, right?
How else can you do it so gently?
[img] 
[/img]
Do you know of anyone who has been circumcised who wishes they hadn't? In fact, we're all pretty glad we had it done. So thanks for your concern but really, we weren't abused
Personally, no. But they're out there. Organisations like [url= http://www.norm-uk.org/foreskin_restoration.html ]NORM-UK[/url] wouldn't exist otherwise.
(as an aside, one of NORM-UK's patrons is the actor Alan Cumming. *giggle* *snort* *hyuk*)
Here's an example.
http://www.norm-uk.org/page.html?action=showitem&item=442
(by Alan Wood, hur hur quack etc)
In fact, we're all pretty glad we had it done
[i]All[/i]? So what you appear to be saying is that there are no instances of anyone, anywhere, wishing that they hadn't been circumcised? That seems like a very bold claim.
In fact, we're all pretty glad we had it done
NO, silly. I meant [i]all[/i] the people I know who've had it done. However, I must caution you that from now on, everything you say or have said will be taken just as pedantically and literally as you just did.
I must caution you that from now on, everything you say or have said will be taken just as pedantically and literally as you just did.
How will we notice the difference?
(-:
Most people (I'd expect) would be appalled at seeing a baby with pierced ears
Eh? That's not uncommon at all.
I think it's repellent.
I expect no less :wink:, although I should say that the presence, or lack, of a foreskin isn't something I normally quiz people on.
Most people (I'd expect) would be appalled at seeing a baby with pierced ears
Very common in Spain
[img] 
[/img]
Do you know of anyone who has been circumcised who wishes they hadn't? In fact, we're all pretty glad we had it done. So thanks for your concern but really, we weren't abused
You would say that though wouldn't you, because you've been brought up to believe it's normal and acceptable.
Someone feel free to correct me, but male infant genital mutilation and piercings are illegal in the UK, we just don't enforce the law.
You can't be sticking holes in or lopping bits off someone who has no way of giving consent with out sound medical medical reasons. For that reason alone it is abuse.
And as to people being perfectly happy with their mutilation, I'm happy for you, that's nice. Still don't give you the right to mutilate others or support the mutilation of others. You are sick sick people.
From the Humans Rights Act
Article 3: “No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment”.
Article 5(1): “Everyone has the right to liberty and security of the person”.
Article 8: “Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life” except for the “protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others”.
Article 9(1): “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion”.
Article 9(2): “Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others”.
You are sick sick people.
You feel quite strongly about this circumcision thing, don't you ?
You feel quite strongly about this circumcision thing, don't you ?
Yes, it clearly sticks in his throat. There will be no end to it. I don't know why he's so upset, it's no skin off his nose. etc...
You are sick sick people.
Oh whell.
Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others
Ambiguous, that.
You could argue circumcision is a religious belief that does no harm, therefore the parents have a right to do it. You could also argue that it's immoral to chop bits off a baby and that HE has a right to remain whole.
Personally I get quite upset that my US nephews get chopped up as babies.. can't imagine doing that to my son to be fair 🙁
Incoming South Park episode about this!
Remember, I called it...
You feel quite strongly about this circumcision thing, don't you ?
I feel very strongly indeed about the abuse of children, and question the morales, ethics, and suitability to be a parent of anyone that doesn't.
Please, find something else to feel strongly about. You're getting quite boring now, not to mention insulting.
Why not go out and do something far more productive, like photograph dangerous potholes and send the pics to your local council?
You're getting quite boring now, not to mention insulting.
pot calling kettle, pot calling kettle.
I am neither boring (everyone on here loves reading my posts hence my enormous popularity 😀 ), nor am I insulting.
I think that someone accusing my parents of child abuse and questioning their eligibility to be parents is quite insulting. Find something else to be wound up about; I admire your desire to be outraged on my behalf, but really, there's no need, thanks.
I am neither boring (everyone on here loves reading my posts hence my enormous popularity ), nor am I insulting.
Boring no, but instulting...
It's ignorance like this that I find amusing yet a bit sad at the same time
yes as it happens, I found this accusation of ignorance and your condesending "amusement" rather insulting.
Enough already!
Oy Vey.
A quick look through shows no female (AFAIA)opinions about female circumcision, so:
Ayaan Hirsi Ali... "opposes not just the genital cutting of girls, but also the practice of circumcision of boys as practiced by Jews and Muslims, as well as the routine infant circumcision practiced in the United States. In her autobiography, Infidel, she writes: "Excision doesn't remove your desire or ability to enjoy sexual pleasure. The excision of women is cruel on many levels. It is physically cruel and painful; it sets girls up for a lifetime of suffering. And it is not even effective in its intent to remove their desire."
yes as it happens, I found this accusation of ignorance and your condesending "amusement" rather insulting.
Oh well then I am sorry. I am so, so sorry. Please don't be upset. 🙁
Oy Vey.
Indeed....
A quick look through shows no female (AFAIA)opinions about female circumcision
To be fair, the only thing female circumcision has in common with male circumcision is the word "circumcision" (and the wooly excuses people use to justify it). The male equivalent would be total removal of the glans.
It's difficult to see how this can ever be a subject that solicits "opinion." It should be pretty apparent to any civilised human being that it's a barbaric violation of human rights.
Whilst ritual genital cosmetic surgery for baby boys may attract its apologists that I'll ultimately end up having to agree to differ with, someone who thinks it's not just acceptable but desirable to butcher their daughter in that manner is someone I don't want to be sharing this planet with.
I can only assume that the post was to solicit a reaction; otherwise it's nonsensical.
I think that someone accusing my parents of child abuse and questioning their eligibility to be parents is quite insulting. Find something else to be wound up about; I admire your desire to be outraged on my behalf, but really, there's no need, thanks.
If you hadn't had it done and been brought up to think it normal, you'd be the first one bleating about how barbaric it is.
Oh I would, would I Grum? And you know this how?
I feel very strongly indeed about the abuse of children, and question the morales, ethics, and suitability to be a parent of anyone that doesn't
To be fair, if you're brought up to think it's normal then it's not really abuse in your mind is it?
Oh I would, would I Grum? And you know this how?
It's pretty obvious. You know it's true as well, you just don't want to admit it. 😉
As a 'victim' of 'abuse', I must say I'm not doing to badly all things considered. 😀 I just get on with my life, and don't let such trivial matters as a bit of floppy skin what I ain't got bother me.
One day I may write a book about my trauma and struggle...
Meanwhile, other, more important issues, went ignored, with catastrophic consequences:
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
[img] 
[/img]
You have to admit though, on a purely logical level, you have no way of knowing what you are missing 🙂
Yeah, but then I have no way of knowing what it's like to have female genitalia.
Or blue eyes.
I cope. Don't ask me how, but I cope....
Yep.. a funny old issue... you don't miss what you've never known, but.. it's not really fair to do it to a baby still.
In your [i]opinion[/i].
Natch.
Do you think it IS fair, or just not important?
Worse things happen at sea, Mol.
I feel strangely attracted to those smooth willies on pron sites though.
Takes all sorts. Used to work with a guy that was into circumcised women.
As a 'victim' of 'abuse', I must say I'm not doing to badly all things considered. I just get on with my life
You often hear of kids that have been fiddled with saying similar before they go on to abuse.
It's a banal comment. Like the dog tail dockers who say 'Look at my docked dog, look how happy he is'. Righto. Look at my paraplegic mate, look how happy he is...that's justification for making other people paraplegic is it?
I can't really see how cutting off part of a child's penis can be considered as anything other than abuse.
I'm not trying to be insulting. I dismiss the ritual argument in the same way as I dismiss any act of abuse that has a historical precedent. I'm not well enough informed to offer an opinion on the health benefits in other countries, but honestly how many men/boys have presented to medical services in the uk with a problem that only circumcision rather than a good hygiene regime would have prevented?
Topically I was talking to a woman at my eldest sons nursery this afternoon. All of her kids are circumcised (not entirely sure why) and her eldest son has been getting bullied at school about it. She was saying that she found him sat on the loo hitting himself in the groin and shouting 'I hate you, I hate you' to his penis.
Cougar - MemberA quick look through shows no female (AFAIA)opinions about female circumcision
I can only assume that the post was to solicit a reaction; otherwise it's nonsensical.
Yes, sorry - I misread one of the earlier replies.
This thread is entirely to do with male circumcision, as you rightly point out. Sorry.
Can't say I agree with it myself, but then again I don't have any kids (that I know of) to get all that concerned about in relation to the argument.
As far as Fred is concerned, if he says he's not bothered about his own unrequested surgery, I think we should just accept that he's not bothered about it and stop picking on him.
😯
close friend was circumsizzled when he was 17 and he has made it clear to anyone who'll listen over and over and over again that sex was much better before his foreskin was stolen from him.
not something i'd want done personally. as for kids having it done before they're old enough to make an informed choice.... my hearts saying 'hmmm that doesn't feel right' but my brains saying 'if my parents had had it done to me i would'nt be angry at all' (if it was a religious, medical or cultural thing... if they did it as some kinda punishment for stealing my little sisters pudding then that's a different story!)
I think we should just accept that he's not bothered about it and stop picking on him.
I wasn't aware that we were picking on him per sé. I agree wholeheartedly that if he's not bothered then fair enough, there's little point in labouring the topic, however as I've read elsewhere on here today, anecdote is not the singular of evidence.
Also, if you cut off your lips, it makes it easier to brush your teeth.
😆
I wasn't aware that we were picking on him per sé.
You were being mean and nasty and horrid and I've bin crying for most of the day. 😥
I'm a [i]victim[/i] here, don't you understand??
I see the new Respect agenda's kicking in.