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Many here have argued that those who get the wrong answer don't know how to use a calculator. Then we discover that different calculators work in different ways. All I'm saying is that it's a little less simple than claimed.
y=2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2-2+2a
where a=0
y=2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2-2+(2*0)
y=26
I wasn't offering to strip for £20, I did a life class and got £20 for expenses. 🙄
They gave me a white robe to put on and a cup of tea half way through, it was all v. civilized 😀
[i]Hmm. Maths is dumb. If you have something and then multiple it by nothing, then how can the something that you had suddenly become nothing? Where's the logic in that?[/i]
The logic is that to multiply by zero means to take it all away. Duh!
(sorry, only read the first page)
£20 for still life? How much for you to move about a bit?
(-:
thankfully the question isn't:
2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2-2+2 / 0
which = infinity
£20 for still life? How much for you to move about a bit?
Disgusting. 😡
Typical STW 'Camera Club' members:
[img] 
[/img]
Eeuuuwwrrghh. Makes me skin crawl. Dirty bastards. 😡
Only a very little bit less simple, though: those getting the wrong answer from a calculator don't know how to use [i]that[/i] calculator.All I'm saying is that it's a little less simple than claimed.
really.... WTF does it matter?
no-one would write that down unless they were a bit of a pillock (can you say pillock here?) and wanted to wave their mathematical willy.
i deal with numbers everyday in my job as a carpenter. i have to add and subtract, multiply and divide daily and consider myself resonable at maths.
if truth be told maths is bollox when you start with the whole BODMAS stuff. it's just stuff that has literally been made up - bit like religions in that sense.
i'd say that over 99% of the population would never come into contact with that sort of sum during their lives. and if they did they would answer 0 because as we all know anything multiplied by zero is 0....
if truth be told maths is bollox when you start with the whole BODMAS stuff. it's just stuff that has literally been made up - bit like religions in that sense.
Well that's math for you. To use math is a bit like to drive a car, they are rules to follow.
i'd say that over 99% of the population would never come into contact with that sort of sum during their lives. and if they did they would answer 0 because as we all know anything multiplied by zero is 0....
Well it probably means 99% of people are morons who never listen in class. You learn about the rules when you're 12.
And as for the calculator, math/physics teachers would tell you do get one that abide for the standard rules of mathematics.
For the record I said 26 too... Dr geek in computational science here.
no juan, they're not morons.
do you remember everything you were told at school? we retain information that we find interesting or useful to us.
how useful is it to know that the equation equals 26? surely if you do find that useful then you'll be using it on a daily basis.
Well it probably means 99% of people are just normal and get on with their lives instead of worrying about the order of useless things and boring maffs stuff.
FTFY....
i'd say that over 99% of the population would never come into contact with that sort of sum during their lives
Thankfully that leaves the remaining few (1%), some of whom may have the ability to apply it for the benefit of the 99%, for example, as a probabolistic design tool to understand the design space for such things as carpentry power tools to ensure the product is safe, effective and reliable.
Well it probably means 99% of people are just normal and get on with their lives instead of worrying about the order of useless things and boring maffs stuff.
Yeah. Theres too much smuggery (may not be a word) in this thread.
Take any single specialist skill, knowledge or technique and 99% of the population would be oblivious to it's significance and incapable of it's execution - doesn't mean it's useless though does it ?
The disingenuous "maffs is for losers innit" comments are so reminiscent of people who boast they can't put together a flat pack cupboard, don't 'get' art and haven't read a book since they left school; rather than admit they're unskilled/uneducated in that particular skillset they wear their ignorance as some kind of 'badge of pride' and sneer at those who can.
When possession of specialist skills or knowledge makes you the object of derision it reminds that a wise man once told me the curse of the modern age was something he called "the conspiracy of mediocracy"
🙄
Smugnitude = An overwhelming, huge amount of smugness.
probabolistic
Do what? 😕
When banging on about something that's a load of cobblers and has no actual relevance in the Real World just to try to sound clever makes you the object of derision it reminds what a complete waste of time being a swot really was.
FTFY...
Elfish = a complete inability to recognise the value of something that doesn't conform to your own compromised world view, innit
Listen sunshine; when you can even comprehend a fraction of the World of Elf, then you'll have attained a level of enlightenment most will never experience, and can only ever dream of.
I can help guide you, but you must learn to see for yourself, not be blinkered by the foolishness and choopidness of others....
Do what?
let me reach out: [i]check it on wiki innit[/i]
i'd say that over 99% of the population would never come into contact with that sort of sum during their lives. and if they did they would answer 0 because as we all know anything multiplied by zero is 0....
You are probably right - which makes it depressing to think that our democratic system gives a majority vote to a group of people lacking the education or reasoning faculty to make a logical decision.
U mite now maffs but yor spelins rubbish m8. 😉
which makes it depressing to think that our democratic system gives a majority vote to a group of people lacking the education or reasoning faculty to make a logical decision.
...but does explain the low quality and standards of government we have 😡
PMSL that this thread is still giving!
so many IT/computing bods on here and a subject close to heart.
of course its only due to the existence of those troll-ass spaces in the original 'sum' that we are beyond page one.
lets just imagine that the last two digits were 1. all sides would be happy! 😀
Yeah but it's good to have a nice argue now and then, innit? 🙂
Yeah but it's good to have a nice argue now and then, innit?
No it isn't.
(-:
do you remember everything you were told at school?
Good gravy. It's not like it's some obscure fact from third year History about who the third cousin twice removed of Alfred the Great was; it's basic, [i]basic[/i] stuff.
The disingenuous "maffs is for losers innit" comments are so reminiscent of people who boast they can't put together a flat pack cupboard, don't 'get' art and haven't read a book since they left school; rather than admit they're unskilled/uneducated in that particular skillset they wear their ignorance as some kind of 'badge of pride' and sneer at those who can.
This, good god, this ^2. I hear that a lot in my job, "I don't know anything about computers, me" all smug and proud, when they're a gorram secretary or accountant for a living. It's like a taxi driver without a driving licence, "I don't know anything about cars, aren't I clevar." Well done.
Different people have different skills and abilities, and I understand that. There's plenty of stuff that's a complete mystery to me (chemistry for one, baffles the crap out of me). But please, please don't be telling me you're pig ignorant of something whilst you've got a self-fulfilled grin on your face like it's something you've worked hard to be proud of.
No it isn't.
Yes (it is)! 😀
That's not an argument, it's just contradiction!
if truth be told maths is bollox when you start with the whole BODMAS stuff....
i'd say that over 99% of the population would never come into contact with that sort of sum during their lives.
Whit? . You never have to do maths?
5 x £1 + 4 x 20p? How much is that? Oh look you just used that "whole BODMAS stuff" that no one uses. 🙄
5 x £1 + 4 x 20p? How much is that? Oh look you just used that "whole BODMAS stuff" that no one uses
Fish and chips twice, please.
(You're right, but you're cherry picking.)
Now do it 5x1+4x0.2
1.8
5.8
5
😕
Question: why do you maffs geeks find it so important to be 'right' on this, and to be 'superior' to others? Are you quite insecure? Does being a geek make you feel a bit inferior to others, to the extent you feel the need to compensate by out-clevering others and claiming they're thick?
Just that that's how you're coming across tbh.
Gnome has the answer
[img] 
[/img]
Its 42, apparently.
5 x £1 + 4 x 20p
What normal person thinks in equations like this when sorting their coins though? I just sort my coins into individual piles and add them up. Maybe I'm just thick though.
(You're right, but you're cherry picking.)
I'm allowed to 😀 he said it was bollox and 99% of the population never use.
I'm just trying to demonstrate that in fact most people use it all the time but just don't realise it.
5.8
What normal person thinks in equations like this when sorting their coins though?
How do you count the coins in your pocket?
If I've got five pound coins I go £1 x 5 = £5.
Is that unusual?
It's got nothing to do with being superior to others... that just comes naturally.. 😉
It's because in maths, exactness is important, and that is easily seen by the original question and differing answers. It's because there is a definite right answer, and that by trying to explain it to those who do not understand, that maybe they will learn something...
Learning stuff is always good... I learn new stuff every day...
I individually count how many I have. This is a moot point anyway as I never have that much change on me 😆
You're right Tom. Any sensible normal person would just count up what they had ion their pocket/moneybox/purse/coppers jar. I spose if you were sorting through different coinage you might 'bracket' them according to value, but that's about it I spose. I see where Graham's going with that, but it does not in any way justify or back up his claims for twenty six as opposed to zero.
I think what it is, they can't admit there's different ways of doing stuff, and that normal people would do the sum in a logical fashion, rather than dreaming up brackets an ting.
'Ooh I'm an engineer' yeah but your wife is thirty six and from Holland. 😐
Work that one out then, geeks! Ha! You weren't expecting that, were you? Where's your maffs now come save you, eh?
And here we go, here we go-
BOSH!
[img] 
[/img]
I can't see them coming back from that one. 😀
5.8
Not if you don't use BODMAS. If you do it left to right then it is
5 x £1 + 4 x 20p
= 5 x 100p + 4 x 20p
= 500 + 4 x 20
= 504 x 20
= 10080p
Is that in High Definition Graham? It looks like it....
Can someone tell me WTF this thread is about so that I might express a view on matters and clear this up for everybody.
I individually count how many I have.
So if you have five £1 coins you have to go: "£1, £2, £3, £4, £5"?
Okay. What if you empty your piggy bank and you have 142 x 20p coins?
Please tell me you don't have to count them up individually? 😯
Okay. What if you empty your piggy bank and you have 142 x 20p coins?
Some money.
The Smugnificence:
a level of enlightenment most will never experience, and can only ever dream of.
_tom_ - Member
5 x £1 + 4 x 20p
What normal person thinks in equations like this when sorting their coins though? I just sort my coins into individual piles and add them up. Maybe I'm just thick though
I think that's the point. "maths" isn't some impenetrable, meaningless thing to be scared of or to be smug about, it's something we do every day, and if you understand that five fivers and four twenty pees is £25.80, then you've "got" the point of BODMAS. Not that it's an arbitrary set of rules that's there for the sake of it, but a description of how things work.
Fortunately there are millions of eager Chinese and Indian graduates who all know exactly how to do this.
So in the future, when people want anything done that's above the level of peasant farming, we'll be able to turn to those nations. We won't need to worry that only a tiny minority in this country have the first idea about maths, and the remainder - like that idiot elfin - are actually proud of their ignorance.
EDIT: obligatory smiley 🙂
if you understand that five fivers and four twenty pees is £25.80, then you've "got" the point of BODMAS.
Thank Gödel someone else gets it. 😀
and the remainder - like that idiot elfin - are actually proud of their ignorance.
😀
Do you feel better now you've said that? Does it feel good to get it off yer chest?
I never thought I'd see such anger and virtriol from maffs geeks. Must be all that bullying they suffered as kids. 🙁
if you understand that five fivers and four twenty pees is £25.80, then you've "got" the point of BODMAS
Yeah but I fort the sum was 5x£1+4x20p? 😕
Or does the pound suddently turn itself into a fiver because of some invisible bracket?
I think what it is, they can't admit there's different ways of doing stuff
There aren't, though. The rules of doing maths are simply that - rules. If you try breaking them, you end up with illogical nonsense.
Well we do live in a world of mediocrity. I got told by a recruiter once, that she wanted to see despite my obvious spelling mistake in my e-mail, as she though curricula vitae was wrong. I kind of lost it and put her back where she belong.
[pedant]
juan... unless there was more than one CV, then it's curriculum, not curricula...
[/pedant]
Erm I'm not a Latin geek but I'm pretty sure curricula is just as correct.
Courses of life versus course of life.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curriculum_vitae
she though curricula vitae was wrong
It is, it should be Vitæ.
Question: why do you maffs geeks find it so important to be 'right' on this,
Worried about your monopoly?
I did a diffrunt sum Elfin. cos five fives is just that little bit tricker, as it desn't have a 1 in it. How did you get on? 😕
Do you feel better now you've said that? Does it feel good to get it off yer chest?
I look at how hard it is to recruit people for a technical job in this country, and I look at how many people from abroad we hire, and I find it quite depressing.
I never thought I'd see such anger and virtriol from maffs geeks. Must be all that bullying they suffered as kids.
CBA to answer that.
Curricula is correct as the plural of curriculum...
Now, as to whether you could argue that a single document containing all the different parts of ones life should be 'courses' and not 'course' is another matter!
There aren't, though. The rules of doing maths are simply that - rules. If you try breaking them, you end up with illogical nonsense.
Like neutrinos going faster than the speed of light and non-euclidian geometry?
maffs geeks. Must be all that bullying they suffered as kids.
I'll have you know I started a maths club at school! We had 100 members! But that's binary, so 4...
- Paul Kerensa.
Neutrinos regularly travel at faster than the local speed of light, so maybe they have just discovered that what we think of as 'the speed of light' is just another localise speed... 😀
Non-euclidian geometry isn't ignoring the rules... it's another set of rules entirely. All of Euclid's theorems are true for well, flat space I guess you could call it, which is a good local approximation to the real world.
looks in.....WTF..
wanders out again.
How can it be another set of rules if it isn't disregarding/breaking/ rewriting rules? 🙂
Simple, Euclidean geometry works for flat space, but does not work for curved space. So it works within the bounds of it's own rule set...
Now, just because it was thought the rules for Euclidean geometry were thought to be universal for a while, which was then proved to be false, does not invalidate the rules, it just gives a more precise definition of them...
😀
fair enough! ta!
Okay. What if you empty your piggy bank and you have 142 x 20p coins?
Please tell me you don't have to count them up individually?
Take it to the coinstar machine and let that work it out for me to save the effort 😆 Again though it's not something that I would come across in day to day life, I don't keep that many coins around.
F*** me. I give up. 🙄
I guess to some people it will remain a complete mystery why their calculator, spreadsheet, phone, google, wolfram, and their 9 year old all insist that 2 + 2 x 3 is 8, when it is [i]clearly[/i] 12.
But luckily normal people never need to multiply in real life 😀
I guess to some people it will remain a complete mystery why their calculator, spreadsheet, phone, google, wolfram, and their 9 year old all insist that [b]2+2 x 3[/b] is 8, when it is clearly 12.
FTFY 😉
Elves are quite similar to gnomes, don't you know. Practically the same in fact...
It's the children I fear for. 😀
Trolling is easier than I thought 🙂
I see where Graham's going with that, but it does not in any way justify or back up his claims for twenty six as opposed to zero
if you have 2 x 50p and no pound coins in your pocket is their a pound? or no money?
2 x 0.5 + 0 x 1 = ?
F*** me. I give up.
We've broken him! 😀
Some of them are [i]sooo[/i] angry, aren't they Tom? 😮
Not the same. Very different in fact. Like saying wombats and spider monkeys are 'practically the same' because they're furry.
I like Elfin's notion that you can get more money in your pocket if you count it up in a different way. I think I'll see if I can convince my bank manager to see things that way too. (If I lard my speech with enough silly affectations I'm sure it will be just as convincing as Elf. )
Calm down dears, its only a forum.
For those who remember maths from school and understand that the application of maths is about following the rules like BODMAS then you can rest easy in your knowledge.
For those who are sitting in their middle class 2 up 2 down house, wearing their generic outfit from GAP, sipping on their skinny chai latte from the local costa whilst trying to maintain their online hardman persona of STILL being too cool for school, growing up in da hood an not givin a damn, you are the reason your fine nation is going down the pan. 😉
The result is 26.
"Son, we live in a world that has parentheses, and those parentheses have to be guarded by men with an eye for clarity. Who's gonna do it? You?"
Sorry, but: no parentheses, no answer. The question is deliberately vague; the answer is wholly dependent on context, just as it would be possible to construct a perfectly valid sentence whose meaning would be wholly dependent on context.
And FWIW I'm mostly a software developer, but one more interested in people writing clear code than just technically correct code. Write something like that and you'd get told to do it again.
Some of them are sooo angry, aren't they Tom?
Not angry, just disappointed and a little despairing.
Sorry, but: no parentheses, no answer.
Why is it people are quite happy with the notion of doing the brackets first, but struggle with the fact that there is an order after that.
Quick test, presumably you would say that:
[code]2 + 3 x 3[/code]
"is deliberately vague" yes? So how about:
[code]2 + 3²[/code]
That's exactly the same sum. Still vague?
Sorry, but: no parentheses, no answer. The question is deliberately vague; the answer is wholly dependent on context,
It's not vague in the slightest, it is very, very specific. Whether it is the problem that was [i]meant[/i] to be set is another matter entirely. Parentheses are only added when necessary and that is not always the case, although I can see an arguement for including them in software coding from a QA persepctive, provided it doesn't change the problem.
Elf - did you get beaten up by the chess club when you were at school or sumfink?
[pedant]juan... unless there was more than one CV, then it's curriculum, not curricula...
[/pedant]
Well she did received two documents, one in French and one in English. But she did fail to understand my point, it's not curriculums vitaes but curricula vitae. And then she couldn't understand why I did not put a plural on vitae as well...
But back to the point, they are rules for maths, you can choose to ignore them and become very offensive when confronted with your ignorance/denial, but they exist. Nothing you can do about it. Would you ignore the rules set in the highway code as well? Regardless of consequences? And as for not remembering EVERYTHING from school I find it to be wrong. Until you turn lets say 16 you have nothing else to do than study, it's your main occupation, I would go as far as saying it's your job. So you might as well do it properly. I bet you thin it's ok to misspell and use text spelling. To be fair I am very upset by this "it's cool to be a moron" culture. No it's not cool to be uneducated, I find it to be rather sad or pathetic depending wether or not you had change in life.
What a fantastic thread.
A little reminder of BODMAS.
...[i]wait before you do the calculation[/i]...