[Closed] 2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2-2+2 x 0?

Don't give it with all the 'ooh I'm clever with maths' rubbish, cos that's cobblers. Read it. Readi it again. Do the sum in the order it's written, without any imaginary brackets.

As it's written, the answer is 26. You clearly can't read it correctly. 🙂

Edit - D'oh, double post.

'Fundamental rules' my arse.
Are the bits of maths that are generally taught at primary school or GCSE level not fundamental?

In this case, no; because as per the second part of my post, the choice of order of operations in the notation you choose to write an equation in is not mathematics.

Okay Elf.

In my pocket I have 6 pound coins, five 10ps, two 5ps, one 2p and no 1ps.

So that's

6 x 100 + 5 x 10 + 2 x 5 + 1 x 2 + 0 x 1

Yes?

So doing that in the order it is written down, left-to-right as you insist on doing, I make that just over six hundred quid. Yay I'm rich! 😀

glenh... well, as it's only convention, then it doesn't make any difference then, just as I think I'll start using j instead of i for all my complex numbers...

Oh, hold on.. ;o)

Well, everyone knows electronics peeps are a bit funny. 😉

coffeeking - Member

If you follow the sum step by step by step, you end up at the end with 28x0 at the end.

But that's not how maths is done (correctly). But never mind, you refuse to learn.

if [u]fundamental[/u] is suddenly seen as being correct all the time, does that now mean that fundamental religious nutters are also correct?

see all you fundamentalists are all barking mad! made up invisible brackets, made up invisible friends in the sky, creationism, it's all the bloomin same. FREAKS the lot you.

*wanders off to don tin foil hat and wait for the end*

well, as it's only convention, then it doesn't make any difference then, just as I think I'll start using j instead of i for all my complex numbers...

Oh, hold on.. ;o)

see all you fundamentalists are all barking mad! made up invisible brackets, made up invisible friends in the sky, creationism, it's all the bloomin same. FREAKS the lot you.

There are NO "invisible brackets". That is just a good way to unambiguously explain the order, because for some reason even the naysayers accept that the bits in brackets need to be done first.

glenh... tease! 😉

andrewh... maybe the subtlety was lost there...

What I was getting at is that mathematics is nothing without convention. You can clearly do what the hell you like personally, but unless you can convey that meaning to others then that meaning is lost.

So, in that sense, convention is everything.

😀

elfin

Do you live under a bridge and terrorise the billy goats gruff?

Seriously, this is basic maths rules that were taught to me at primary school nearly 20 years ago.

maths is right or wrong. If it wasn't a lot more things you rely on wouldn't work.

she'll know [img] [/img] 🙂

Thanks for the money example Graham it makes sense now.

funkynic,

that's what i meant, only you managed to say it properly!

Blimey.. maybe this Talisker is making me talk sense for once!

maths is right or wrong

go on then solve the Birch and Swinnerton-Dyer conjecture 😆

elfin

Do you live under a bridge and terrorise the billy goats gruff?

Seriously, this is basic maths rules that were taught to me at primary school nearly 20 years ago.

maths is right or wrong. If it wasn't a lot more things you rely on wouldn't work.

Christ this is embarrassing for mtbers.

There are rules for maths. Simple rules for the 2+2*2 stuff. If you didnt turn up that day at school - then try and relearn.

I'm afraid I have an A* in GCSE maths from 1995 and would have said 0 while vaguely suspecting a trick. I'm a tax lawyer, so it doesn't matter these days.

When I write sums I use an awful lot of brackets, many possibly not strictly needed. I am glad the kids learn these things, but gladder that grown-ups who do maths know them. 🙂

6 x 100 + 5 x 10 + 2 x 5 + 1 x 2 + 0 x 1

So doing that in the order it is written down, left-to-right as you insist on doing, I make that just over six hundred quid. Yay I'm rich!

I get £60,522. I am [i]considerably[/i] richer than yaw! As well as being better at maths, obviously. 😉

[img] [/img]

I can't belive I'm explaining primary school maths to a grown man in terms of cats!

You're not. You're just confuddling yourself with some meaningless completely irrelevant guff about going on holiday and cat welfare. 🙄

I get £60,522. I am considerably richer than yaw!

No, it's just that I remembered we were working in pennies 😀

Oh.

In that case we are both equally wealthy. Which is good, as there'll be no jealousy/guilt/resentment. 🙂

maths is right or wrong

Excellent, does that mean you won't give me any more Chinese burns?

Yay - a 5 page argument about eff all 🙂 i

the answer is 42 BTW

Can it be -26?

No

2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2-2+2 x 0?

I'm not reading any more of this crap, but what it comes down to is:

Is that 2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2-2+2 x 0? <no brackets>
or (implied) (2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2-2+2) x 0 <ie cheating putting in brackets whereever the flip you want>
or (implied) 2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2-2+(2 x 0)? <where brackets should go according to rules>

for those who didnt go to school: implied is the big deal.

If you didnt pay attention in school - Pick A or B. Others feel free to pick C. Them is the rules.

Strangely I did really bad in school. But I got a real interest in this since!

Yes it is.

Or should I say....

Yes (it is).

😆 nicely done.

Actually it was terribly done. We all agree you do the brackets first. So he just said "it is Yes" which only makes sense if Yoda you are. Hmmmmm? 😛

elfin, can I just check - are you relying on "elfin is always right" for this argument?

It's all he has left.

I've manaeged to get to the age of 50 have 3 degrees (2 at Masters level) and I've never heard of this BODMAS thing before.

That's what I love about STW - you learn something new every day (most of it is utter crap though).

Actually it was terribly done. We all agree you do the brackets first. So he just said "it is Yes" which only makes sense if Yoda you are. Hmmmmm?

Well I wasn't geeky enough to know this. It still made me laugh.

Philby - Member
I've manaeged to get to the age of 50 have 3 degrees (2 at Masters level) and I've never heard of this BODMAS thing before.

I have a BA and an MA, and I know the answer is 26 (amongst other stuff).

If you're going to be wrong, may as well be properly wrong....
It's 9567.94 and a third....

DrP

aracer - Member

I have a BA and an MA, and I know the answer is 26 (amongst other stuff).

Really?

You lot had a maths argument last night?

This is priceless.

I still think that putting a space either side of the 'x' in the thread title and not around the '+'s implies a precedence (or brackets) that some are saying isn't there.

+1=200

You lot had a maths argument last night?

Yep, because that's just how we roll round here.
You never know when this party is going to get wild!

[img] [/img]

to redress the balance in the interest of statistical relevance (and the original post) the answer is 30

28: 44,870 votes
26: 532,475 votes
30: 60,095 votes
0: 800,597 votes

by the way, i [u]read[/u] the question to a mathematical type friend and he said the answer was 0. so if its on paper you can get all clever clogs with it. if you process it at each stage you cant.

still sticking with 30 by the way and no you cant see my workings

So, if I have 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 (etc. posts) X 0 (pieces of useful information). How much useful information do I have?

Is that recurring?

Wtf? I dunmo who is more stupid, those who got it wrong or those who argued about it for 6 pages?

I work in research finance and got this wrong

*hands self P45*

wow!

Not going to read the whole thread, but the answer is 26.

For those who need a reminder back to their school years (this may have already been covered in the thread).

When approaching a calculation you need to remember BODMAS.

You approach the calculation in the following order

B - Brackets first
O - Orders (ie Powers and Square Roots, etc.)
DM - Division and Multiplication (left-to-right)
AS - Addition and Subtraction (left-to-right)

So in this sum:

B - no brackets, move on to
O - no orders, move on to
DM - 2x0 = 0, move on to
AS - 2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2-2+0 = 26.

GrahamS I sort of luv you all because of it!!

I got it wrong, but I've learned about BODMAS!!

26 - IT Manager

I still think that putting a space either side of the 'x' in the thread title and not around the '+'s implies a precedence (or brackets)

i suspect that in the original draft there may well have been brackets in those spaces but the legal team insisted they were removed to avoid any ambiguity

I still think that putting a space either side of the 'x' in the thread title and not around the '+'s implies a precedence (or brackets) that some are saying isn't there.

In the corner with Elf, my lad.

I think this thread just goes to show you're an idiot if you write a sum like that and don't write the brackets in.

It's just intentionally ambiguous and should not be seen outside of maths lessons.

[i]I think this thread just goes to show your an idiot if you write a sum like that and don't write the brackets in. [/i]

Or, indeed, a sentence using your when you meant you're.

[i]
In the corner with Elf, my lad[/i]

*shuffles off, secretly pleased to be (at the age of 46) called 'my lad'*

I remember being taught this (BODMAS) when I was 11. It's not particulary tricky. Although, in fairness, this type of sum is now normally paranthesised to cater for those not paying attention at the back.
And FWIW, 26 - IT manager

Really?

26 (though I initially hovered over zero, before the creaking doors of my mind re-opened to prep school BODMAS, as taught by Mr Bond).

Lawyer.

I'd never heard of BODMAS. Did they have it back in the seventies?

Oh my days.

If he's not stropped off to smoke cigs because the nerds have beaten him up.... try just typing it as written into excel and see what answer you get...

Excel is always right. Accountant.

0. Former airspace engineer. See those planes buzzing around in the sky, i did rather alot of design work on the wings (civil) and weapon systems (military). Be afraid.

GrahamS I sort of luv you all because of it!!

I got it wrong, but I've learned about BODMAS!!

Yay! Someone has learned something. AND a pretty girl talked to me. About Maths!
My day is complete. 😀

I know its 26, but still think that maths needs proper punctuation like that writing stuff.

Is this the perfect STW thread?

1. Deviation from MTB
2. Interesting question (albeit it with hidden trap)
3. Evidence that threads can be misinterpreted (the zeros, read this as an oral question, the 26s as a written one)
4. Errors
5. Debate
6. Abuse
7. Defensiveness
8. Bigotry
9. Ya, boo, sucks
10. Finally humour

0. Former airspace engineer. See those planes buzzing around in the sky, i did rather alot of design work on the wings (civil) and weapon systems (military). Be afraid.

It does beggar belief that higher education and high grades does not result in the correct answer though!!

It's just intentionally ambiguous and should not be seen outside of maths lessons.

It's not intentionally ambiguous, it's perfectly clear.

But: given the failure rate for the question [b]written[/b] down, I'd probably put brackets in.

And: if you read the question to someone [b]out loud[/b], the answer would be zero.

But: given the failure rate for the question written down, I'd probably put brackets in.

I have to admit, speaking as a software engineer, I would ALWAYS put brackets in anything like this. Not because the computer needs them, but because I know my fellow engineers [s]are idiots[/s] may not have had their coffee when they read it 😀

And: if you read the question to someone out loud, the answer would be zero

antigee
I still think that putting a space either side of the 'x' in the thread title and not around the '+'s implies a precedence (or brackets)
i suspect that in the original draft there may well have been brackets in those spaces but the legal team insisted they were removed to avoid any ambiguity

Proper tea on monitor moment there.

42

elf's quiet.....
Thankfully

Probably off spoiling someone else's thread, which he didn't understand either.

try just typing it as written into excel and see what answer you get...

Tsk - [u]as written[/u] Excel will fill the cell with a text string, which doesn't move things on much. Put an equals sign in front of it and we're in business.

Type it as written into Windows calculator will get you 0.

Type it as written into Windows calculator will get you 0.

Not on modern Windows (i.e. Windows 7)
I can even type it as written into the calculator on my phone and it correctly comes out as 26.

As someone said earlier older calculators expect you to enter stuff in the the order of evaluation, or sometimes odd orders like "45 sin"

[i]I can even type it as written into the calculator on my phone and it correctly comes out as 26.[/i]

which key do you press for the spaces?

Go to Spain. But first put the cat out.
.
If you do that from left to right you will be in Spain and the cat will locked in the house until you get back. if you read it properly and do it in the order which it tells you to the cat will be out and about before you even leave for the airport.

'Record' noun or verb?
'I invited Anne to the party' which element of the sentence is more important to the speaker?
It could be argued that the spoken sum could introduce stress to denote the brackets, no?

Johnners - thank you for your correction, in this forum of idiots it was silly of me to leave anything to chance.

I have to admit, speaking as a software engineer, I would ALWAYS put brackets in anything like this. Not because the computer needs them, but because I know my fellow engineers are idiots may not have had their coffee when they read it

+1

You only have to do the sum on a cheap ass free gift calculator to see why being explicit means you're less likely to be misinterpreted.

i.e. never rely on the knowledge of others

It's like big old regexp might make perfect sense to those in sandals with socks, but I still comment them so I know what the hell I was looking for 2 years down the line without having google it.

Not on modern Windows (i.e. Windows 7)

Yeah, my work laptop's running Vista.

in this forum of idiots it was silly of me to leave anything to chance

Be fair, you did specifically say "as written", and not everyone will be as familiar with Excel as you.

I'm whole heartedly accepting your correction Johnners. My omission of the equals sign was entirely unacceptable.

I have to admit, speaking as a software engineer, I would ALWAYS put brackets in anything like this. Not because the computer needs them, but because I know my fellow engineers are idiots may not have had their coffee when they read it

+2

I recently lost a job interview on the strength of a test which included loads and loads of the programming equivalent of this kind of question. Utterly stupid, as you have to be actively trying to trick people to write code (or mathematical expressions) like this.

I am always explicit - why not be? Other than to be a smart-arse?

The answer using conventional notation is obviously 26. But as has already been pointed out - it's just a convention, not maths. The argument about maths being right or wrong is irrelevant.

BTW - my scientific calculator says it's zero.

BTW - my scientific calculator says it's zero.

All that demostrates is that you don't know how to use your calculator properly.