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In the Scottish Borders they have recently changed pretty much every 30mph limit to 20mph. It was a bold move, I think the first area in Scotland (possibly the UK) to do this in every village and town. It is a trial, funded by Sustrans, and designed to help as part of encouraging more active travel. So it is part of package to make roads more user friendly for cyclists and walkers.
What is not to love?
Well, going by FB comments (I know, hardly a fair cross section of reational society)
- It will destroy local economy because, well just because
- It will destroy environment as will cause more pollution
- It will turn towns that are already gridlocked into impenetrable black holes of traffic doom (I've lived and worked in London, if people think the Borders has a traffic problem then they really are blinkered)
- It will cause more accidents due to frustration
- It will wreck cars as engines don't like going at 20mph.
- It add hours on to every journey
I think it is great and I have no problem at whacking on the cruise control and plodding at 20mph. It adds only seconds or minutes to a journey. Crossing the road is way easier so it must be safer for kids and people with limited mobility. Why are people just so negative?
Why are people just so negative?
People fear change, and also, I assume it rains a lot in the Borders?
Don't snowflakes melt in the rain 🙂 ?
Is cruise control really for built up areas though?!
The fancy one on our yet to be delivered car is, the current one will not kick in unless you're doing over 30.
They'll get over it.
Is cruise control really for built up areas though?!
Is cruise control really for built up areas though?!
+20 years of using it, yes, works great.
if people think the Borders has a traffic problem then they really are blinkered
They do and they are.
The borders is completely full of people who drive absolutely everywhere at 40. 40 on the big straight roads, 40 on the blind corners past cyclists, 40 right through the towns except when forced to slow down by near-misses. I'm sure those guys are all really angry at the fact that now they'll be speeding by 20mph instead of 10mph but they won't change at all.
The pollution argument drives me crazy. Aye, it will cause more if you insist on stop-starting and accelerating like a madman to 20 then braking hard again. But if you drive appropriately at 20, rather than like a dick, then emissions are lower, because 20mph traffic flows better. The only thing that drives up the pollution is the driver, and the people who complain the most, will be the people who drive the worst generally. Same with traffic in most cases
Sounds like a great idea to me. Isn’t Facebook pretty much just full of people that will cry about anything?
Borders village resident here, and sadly I'm a bit pessimistic how much difference it'll make without enforcement (though any impact is welcome). We have a problem with speeding through the village (as most places) but as all the accidents have luckily been non-injury ones it doesn't flag it up enough for action to be taken. I do wonder as well whether it tends to mainly be the folk who already obey the 30mph limit who'll slow to 20mph, so not really impacting on the problem.
EDIT: I've made some other comments on chitter, that unless the 20mph areas are safely linked up then this doesn't necessarily improve active travel either, you just have 'islands' of safety that people are too scared to move between.
Hopefully I'm proven wrong! We've no date for when it'll be done here so will see what happens...
Some people will always speed and there be limits won’t fix that. But if lots of people slow down then, overall, the roads are safer.
The economy complaint is the strangest one. How will safer/slower roads destroy a local economy? I just don’t follow that logic.
I’ve made some other comments on chitter, that unless the 20mph areas are safely linked up then this doesn’t necessarily improve active travel either, you just have ‘islands’ of safety that people are too scared to move between.
Agreed, but, most kids who could travel to school on bike could do so within their 20mph island. Sadly I think it will take a lot more that slower speed limits to get more kids riding to school though. My kids have always ridden to primary school since P4 age but they are in a tiny tiny minority.
We have had 20mph on all side roads in Portsmouth for 10 years now and were the first in England to do this
Makes pretty much no difference to most people who carry on driving at 30mph or more
+20 years of using it, yes, works great.
What cars will accept 20mph for cruise control?
... Serious Q
it will cause more if you insist on stop-starting and accelerating like a madman to 20 then braking hard again.
Isn't the arguement more that to drive at 20mph requires a lower gear than at 30mph?
Our 1.0L fiesta will do 30 in 5th (just) but 20 needs 3rd gear - and for 33% longer.
Going through Galashiels recently, the 20mph is far too slow.
I can understand it on the minor roads, but through routes, with little pedestrian traffic then it isnt going to get full support.
My Hyundai happily uses cruise control at 20mph. Clearly I don’t use it down the high street but we have a lot of longer quiet roads through hamlet where it really helps to just sit on 20mph
The twenty zone for eddleston should extend past that bloody s-bend its a miserable place to be on a bike when someone decides to straightline it into oncoming traffic.
I'm all for it but as i live within sight of the nsl/20 heading north out of peebles people are already accelerating/not started slowing down yet.
I can understand it on the minor roads, but through routes, with little pedestrian traffic then it isnt going to get full support.
I think the argument is that slower speeds will encourage more pedestrian traffic
My Hyundai happily uses cruise control at 20mph.
Lucky you.... Yours must be a one-off as Hyundai's CC doesn't work below 40kmph (25mph).
Of course their specifications could be wrong.
We have had 20mph on all side roads in Portsmouth for 10 years now and were the first...
I didn't know that! Might come down to Pompey for a nice relaxing bike ride some time 😆
Slower speeds will result in less congestion and fewer queues - if everyone sticks to it. You'll get far more people out of junctions and onto roundabouts if the cars to which you have to give way are going slower.
A fact sadly lost on most people in Cardiff. We had a roundabout (Gabalfa) that was a right pain to get out of because when it got busy people gunned it out of the exits and forgetting to slow down, so they were all going too fast around it. This meant that other people couldn't get out, so they had to gun it into a small gap, and repeat. They eventually came around to my way of thinking and made it a 20mph limit and made it one narrower lane. It's better now but people still ignore the 20.
We've had a blanket 20 limit on Bristol side roads for a good few years now. There was a lot of complaining at the time but I think that has settled down now. It works well enough. Most people still speed but now they are doing 25, which effectively means the old, ignored 30 limit is observed. You still get the odd idiot going way too fast but they are really noticeable so moderately rare
Great for cycling as I ride closer to traffic speed. Great for walking as it's easier to cross roads. You also often end up walking in the road due to parked cars and it helps there. It's also easier to pull out of junctions when driving.
Lucky you…. Yours must be a one-off as Hyundai’s CC doesn’t work below 40kmph (25mph).
17 plate santa-fe, auto box. I’m not making it up.
20 on almost all Edinburgh roads. Commonly ignored, so I'm not sure how much of a positive it is.
It is of course the end of the world according to old/thick people on FB
We've got 20mph all over Stirling area also being introduced. Main thoroughfare is still 30, this is all residential roads.
I get tailgated everywhere around Dunblane at present.
This is also thanks (among other factors and reasons) to the UN CRC kicking in, with every decision the Scottish Government decision requiring an Child Welfare and Impact Assessment. All of a sudden being able to go play in the park and walk to school is more valuable than being able to get your generic German diesel car to work 22 seconds quicker. Long may it last.
To echo what @nickjb said, we’ve had 20 on anything that isn’t a “main” road in Bristol for a few years now - and on quite a few busy roads as well. From what I observe, people mostly stick between 20 and 30 now, whereas it would have been between 30 and 40 previously, so it has noticeably slowed traffic.
It’s not been perfect and entitled arseholes are gonna arsehole.
We occasionally travel to Mrs dd’s family in the WMs where it’s 30 everywhere and to be honest, the drivers’ speeds in residential areas fairly stress me out. 😀
For me it has to be for a reason, not blanket 20 like they did in Bristol, what is the purpose and how will this push towards it?
If there is a safety concern then that'll be easy to push through, but the reality is that people are commuting further, spending more time in their car and to add time to peoples journeys is not a good thing, i'd like to see them focus on areas of concern and put actual physical changes to reduce the speed of drivers, rather than just a random 'now it's 20'.
Having a twenty limit in any U.K. city is going to make **** all difference to the time spent in a car.
then that’ll be easy to push through
My hairy arse it will.
For me it has to be for a reason, not blanket 20 like they did in Bristol
Being a residential road is more than enough reason for me.
The new limit has significantly improved travel in Bristol
Borders village resident here, and sadly I’m a bit pessimistic how much difference it’ll make without enforcement
That.
Putting up some signs has next to no effect. Speed bumps etc would. I live on the A7 BTW.
.
Also, is it just me, or are other folks getting overtaken loads when sticking to 30/40 limits (and now 20) in built up areas? Seems far more prevalent than it used to be. I've now started making my van very wide if someone is right up the back of me in a 30 zone, works a lot better than a couple of signs...
sharkbait
Free MemberIsn’t the arguement more that to drive at 20mph requires a lower gear than at 30mph?
So people think. But cruising in town isn't what causes most emissions, it's the acceleration up to the cruising speed.
Cynic-al i would say in my experience it has improved things in edinburgh.
I don't think for a second people are sticking to it but the average speed seems to have gone down.
20 on almost all Edinburgh roads. Commonly ignored, so I’m not sure how much of a positive it is.
MY experience is that many folk do drive slower than they used to and do not overtake cyclists in the 20 limit - of course idiots remain idiots but IMO / IME it has made a differnce
Aye it may well have made a difference, my commute only has 2 miles of road on it these days, and some of that is near gridlocked, so I don't notice then.
I may spend more time driving and am just aware of folk up my ass at 20mph - which is enjoyable.
in Cardiff. We had a roundabout (Gabalfa) that was a right pain to get out of
I hate that thing!
My friend lives practically underneath it. It's better now they've changed it, but as a visitor rather than a resident, I am never quite sure what's going on 😆
we’ve had 20 on anything that isn’t a “main” road in Bristol for a few years now – and on quite a few busy roads as well. From what I observe, people mostly stick between 20 and 30 now, whereas it would have been between 30 and 40 previously,
Yep, i live 130 metres away from the A420 which is also a 20 zone on our stretch. For the most part people don't really exceed 30 now. At the rare times of the day when it is possible to get up to 30 in the first place. And on the back streets (i.e. the terraced house streets with parked cars down either side) it's very well observed. I'm well in favour.
East Lothian done it earlier this year.
After decades of fast cars and motorbikes, I stick to it as much as possible.
I've always tried to stick to everything bar the national limit which I viewed as optional.
Funny to catch myself shouting at folk for doing more than 20 now, I feel old when I catch myself but I actually do think its a great move.
I completely support it. With a bit of effort and some average speed cameras you could probably get a decent chunk of the COVID-19 debt paid off with the fines too.
30 is way too fast, IMHO, in my own town. I therefore enforce my own 20mph limit for the 90 seconds it takes to drive through the really busy bit.
I reckon if people around here carried guns I'd have been shot by now.
One thing I have noticed is that cars now get in my way when flying down leith walk although the new junction at Picardy place means I no longer get the flying start! No speed limits for bikes remember 🙂
We’ve had a blanket 20 limit on Bristol side roads for a good few years now.
To be fair the congestion in parts of Bristol is so bad that you are lucky if you can reach 20mph on many roads.
To be fair the congestion in parts of Bristol is so bad that you are lucky if you can reach 20mph on many roads.
I think I know what point you’re making - but once you go off the “main roads” e.g. A420 as mentioned above, A38 - Stokes C-Cheltenham Rd-Glos Road, and onto what seems to constitute most of the city’s residential roads ie Victorian/Georgian terraces with cars parked either side, it’s quite easy to drive at whatever speed you want. I’ve noticed a reduction around my BS4 area since 20mph was introduced. Could it be better observed/enforced? Yeah, for sure. But it’s helped a lot I think.
Getting back to your point, it’s difficult sometimes to explain to the antis that all they’re doing is getting to the back of a queue at a roundabout/traffic light a few seconds earlier than they would have otherwise...but y’know...people! 🙄
tjagain
One thing I have noticed is that cars now get in my way when flying down leith walk although the new junction at Picardy place means I no longer get the flying start! No speed limits for bikes remember 🙂
With the old TJ there would have been a joke about foruming furiously not cycling furiously in there somewhere.
This new guy’s different though.
I thought I would add to this with some of the fantastical complaints that are still littering every news article about the trial.
The best so far are:
- Buildings are being damaged by HGVs as they are creating extra vibrations by driving in the wrong gears.
- I find 20mph very difficult as it is between 2nd and 3rd gears
- I am more likely to hit a pedestrian as I have to look at my speedo rather than the road and pavements.
- I've been driving at 30mph for 33 years, you cannot expect me to just drop to 20mph straight away, it will take a while to adjust down to that speed
- The pollution is so bad that when I came back from shopping the inside of my mask was black and when I washed my face it was black.
- People are going to die as ambulances cannot get to patients due to the long line of slow moving traffic.
We actually share the road with these muppets, its mad.
We actually share the road with these muppets, its mad.
I suggest you never watch any of the dashcam video's posted online then. It is truly scary how folk drive, anticipate and then react when needed...
We actually share the road with these muppets
Come the revolution... [continue to fade]
Idiots gonna idiot.
The twenty zone for eddleston should extend past that bloody s-bend its a miserable place to be on a bike when someone decides to straightline it into oncoming traffic.
That's a brilliant idea and I would wholeheartedly support such a move.. Seems like almost everytime I'm on that part of the road there's an accident in the offing as some moron overtakes around the blind bend..
– I find 20mph very difficult as it is between 2nd and 3rd gears
– I am more likely to hit a pedestrian as I have to look at my speedo rather than the road and pavements.
Peebleshirenews on FB by any chance?
They’ll get over it.
They'll completely ignore it.
All of Cambridge, bar the ring road, has been 20 mph for years - no one sticks to it.
my BMW cruise works at 20mph.
Some valid and not so vlaid points though. 20mph is a weird speed for cars to travel at, they will be in gearing that's neither optimal, or particularly poor, particulate filters will not be re-generating at that speed, but then you argue they wont until over 50 anyway (petrol and diesel) (not all, but vast majority) also it does seem like an age to get anyway at 20mph.
HOWEVER - i live down a small road and habitually drive at 20 - it suits the conditions, there are complete ****stains that drive down it at like it's a race track they will end up killing someone soon and it better not be one of my kids - the school run parents are some of the worst offenders. Would i like to drive at 20mph throughout the entire village - no, most cyclists would pass you at that speed round my way.
Speed limits should be set for the road type and then driven at appropriate speeds for the conditions, there are plenty of roads where the speed limit baffles belief..
Peebleshirenews on FB by any chance?
Border Telegraph but I think it is basically the same rag. Reporting the same community council meeting though (also mentioned the disgust at getting overtaken by cyclists)
"being overtaken by cyclists speeding going to the pumptrack"
Which is impressive given that 90% of the bikes at the track are jump bikes or bmxs.
Speaking from experience in Northumberland, not that far from the borders:
Our local authority were really not keen on putting a 20 limit through our village because it meant extra signage.
They also refused to put in a crossing point on the main street because the sight lines were not good enough and "drivers might not see it in time" which was very much the point of wanting it!
A petition was put round the village and got a LOT of signatures. The LA relented and installed a 20 limit.
Very few people pay any attention to it. 🙁
Cardiff is also busy making every 30 road a 20, I'll be honest, the downsides for me:
It's slower, which means it takes longer, which is boring.
It makes my car a tiny bit less efficient, which isn't an issue per-se, but it's negates at least half the supposed benefits. It's an auto, and it does indeed seem to make it constantly shift between 2nd and 3rd which hurts the efficiency.
It's been introduced (in Cardiff at least) in an completely arbitrary way, when announced it was supposed to be residential streets, but in reality it's any 30mph road, with or without houses on it and typically 'main roads' and not what most people would consider to be residential streets. It's also being introduced to roads that haven't had an accident involving a Pedestrian / Horse Rider / Cyclist etc ever.
It's increased tailgating and associated 'road rage' massively, I don't know how you can, or should legislate for stupid, but it's happening.
It's ugly, I already think there are too many road signs, not only from an ascetic point of view but there's so many now, most seem to get ignored, lost in a sea of red and white reflective metal The council must agree because on the roads where they're introduced it, they've plastered every lamppost, erected new signs and written it on the road.
I find 20mph very difficult as it is between 2nd and 3rd gears
A limited lifespan problem because:
a) As more 20 limits are rolled out, manufacturers will adjust gearing.
b) Electric cars are coming and most of them don't have gears!
Some valid and not so vlaid points though. 20mph is a weird speed for cars to travel at, they will be in gearing that’s neither optimal, or particularly poor, particulate filters will not be re-generating at that speed, but then you argue they wont until over 50 anyway (petrol and diesel) (not all, but vast majority) also it does seem like an age to get anyway at 20mph.
Do remember that in the next decade or two that becomes a non-issue as we all move to electric.
That and I would not play to 'my car isn't working well, I *must* go faster for it to work well' or 'that feels slow and a bike is faster'. That isn't the priority here. If a bike is faster than 20mph, they can be prosecuted. If the car isn't the ideal tool as 20mph damages, then get walking or cycling.
The council must agree because on the roads where they’re introduced it, they’ve plastered every lamppost, erected new signs and written it on the road.
Unfortunately, because the "default" is 30, any deviation from that default needs to be very heavily signed with repeaters etc.
This could be fixed with a change in traffic and signage regulations, but I doubt anyone is that sensible.
A properly instituted 20 mph limit actually increases traffic flow
A car is not less efficient at a steady 20 mph
If 20 mph is between 2 and 3rd then 30 mph will be between 3rd and 4th! Pjay - lock it into a gear then
A bike cannot be prosecuted for speeding - nor its rider. Very few cyclists will be doing more than 20 mph unless downhill
Pretty sure my last three cars, Focus, Golf and V50 were all in the "CC @ 20MPH" club.
Big fan of a 20, me. 🙂
It makes my car a tiny bit less efficient, which isn’t an issue per-se, but it’s negates at least half the supposed benefits. It’s an auto, and it does indeed seem to make it constantly shift between 2nd and 3rd which hurts the efficiency.
You must have an old/crap auto TBH.
Unless I drop mine into manual I've no idea which gear it's in, nor can I feel it change unless I've stood on the loud pedal when it drops 2-3.
And yes, cruise & limit work at 20.
A properly instituted 20 mph limit actually increases traffic flow
A car is not less efficient at a steady 20 mph
If 20 mph is between 2 and 3rd then 30 mph will be between 3rd and 4th! Pjay – lock it into a gear then
The problem is the world ain't flat, and it certainly isn't in Wales, so there's little 'steady' to go around.
The gearbox in my car is pretty clever, it's DCT rather than a true auto and gear depends on load and elevation, on the plus side if it's going downhill, it will switch to neutral, but it's 2nd/3rd/2nd/3rd/2nd/3rd You only really feel it when it's cold, but it will hold a constant 3rd at 30mph.
There's no point locking it in 3rd, as it goes up hill it will switch to 2nd to avoid stalling, I could lock it to 2nd, but it would be a bit loud.
The thing is, if you consider this entirely from the standpoint of pedestrians, horsey riders, cyclists, school kids, mobility scooter users, and the elderly, it really is difficult to come up with a coherent argument against it.
The problem is that a lot of drivers think that the roads exist exclusively to serve cars.
True you cannot be done for speeding, but you can for ignoring roadsings or careless or inconsiderate cycling:
From
Other cycling offences: As well as the offence of cycling on a footway/footpath, the Road
Traffic Act 1988 sets out a number of other cycling related offences, which are summarised
below:
Section 24: Ride more than one to a bicycle, unless it has been designed to carry more
than one person
Section 26: Hold on to a moving vehicle or trailer
Section 28: Cycle dangerously
Section 29: Cycle in a careless or inconsiderate manner
Section 30: Cycle under the influence of drink or drugs
Section 36: Fail to comply with road signs and signals
Section 163: Failure to stop when required by a police or traffic officer
Section 168: Failure to give, or giving false name and address in case of careless,
inconsiderate or dangerous cyclingWhat constitutes dangerous cycling: Dangerous cycling is defined as cycling in a manner
liable to cause either injury to a person or serious damage to property. In determining whether
a person has cycled dangerously, a Sheriff must consider whether it would have been obvious
to a competent and careful cyclist that cycling in such a manner that fell far below the standard
that would be expected of such a cyclist.What constitutes careless or inconsiderate cycling: A person may be guilty of careless or
inconsiderate cycling if the cycle on a road without due care and attention, or without
reasonable consideration for other persons.Roadworthiness: Any bike being ridden at night or when there is seriously reduced visibility
must be fitted with a rear reflector, pedal reflectors and front and rear lights, under the
provisions of the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 as amended. Flashing lights are
allowed. Failure to comply with these requirements is an offence. The Pedal Cycle
(Construction and Use) Regulations 1983 requires anyone using a bike to ensure that their
brakes are in working order.
Enforcement: The enforcement of cycling offences is a matter for local police forces. Police
use fixed penalty notices to deal with most cycling offences, e.g. cycling without lights at night or
failing to stop at a red light. A fixed penalty notice for a cycling offence requires the payment of
a £30 fine. However, someone found guilty, on summary conviction, of carrying a passenger on
a bike designed for one person could be fined up to £200, holding on to a moving vehicle up to
£200, careless or inconsiderate cycling up to £1000, cycling while unfit through drink and drugs
up to £1000, failing to comply with traffic signs or signals up to £1000, dangerous cycling up to
£2500 and cycling on the pavement up to £500. Failure to stop when required, failure to give
details or providing false details can result, on summary conviction, of a fine of up to £1000.
The level of fines due for cycling offences are set out in Schedule 2 of the Road Traffic
Offenders Act 1988.
Children and young people are not technically exempt from the legal restrictions described
above. However, the Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2010, Section 52
establishes that no-one aged under 12 can be prosecuted for an offence, effectively meaning
that anyone aged under 12 can freely cycle, in a responsible manner, on the pavement.
As part of the same initiative in another council area, we have widened pavements around town, particularly by removing the laybys at bus stops and some (legal) on-pavement parking.
Armageddon was predicted, and economic ruin forecast.
1. Congestion seems no worse than before, possibly better.
2. Idiot parking has virtually disappeared.
3. There actually seem to be more empty spaces - I have no logical reason for this other than perhaps the shopkeepers not hogging them all for themselves, or people assuming they won't get a space and parking 200 yds away.
4. Street seems busier than I'd expect with pedestrians considering Level 4 restrictions; so probably having its intended function.
Have the loudmouths come back to say they might have been wrong? No - last week there was a spot of rain and the modifications seem to have caused some draining issues - they are there saying "see I told you" (nobody on the previous thread mentioned any drainage concerns). And then a few others joined in declaring that shopkeepers were definitely seeing a fall in trade (presumably nobody told those people about the level 4 restrictions closing most shops and meaning less passing trade for those who can open?)
Local facebook groups make this place seem calm and rational.
My personal favourite* from the ongoing FB whingefest:
At 20mph it is too easy be be distracted and look around at stuff rather than concentrating. This makes it more dangerous.
On that kind of logic they should increase the speed limit to 50mph, it would be waaaay safer
* I say favourite but I still have special affection for the person who reckons HGV's are damaging building by being forced to drive slower.
I’ve been driving at 30mph for 33 years, you cannot expect me to just drop to 20mph straight away, it will take a while to adjust down to that speed
I drove through Gala at the weekend. I've been driving in built up areas at 30mph for 35 years.
It look about half a second to see the first sign and slow down.
I find 20mph very difficult as it is between 2nd and 3rd gears
Really? How about a refresher course on how to drive, it's not that difficult.
I'm looking forwards to moving there and feeling safer on the roads.
tjagain
Full MemberA properly instituted 20 mph limit actually increases traffic flow
It does. But the problem is the drivers- if people are still doing 30, or doing traffic light grand prix and tailgaiting and braking and accelerating hard- all the things that 20 should avoid- then it pretty much cancels it out. The question is whether drivers actually change. (I wonder if the lockdown/reduced in town driving has had any effect? Breaking habits etc. I know I've made some mistakes with speed limits on roads that I'm used to traffic dictating speed so it could cut both ways)
I am in favour of 20 limits for sure but I've come to believe that it has to be strongly and visibly enforced. Everything from police on the roads to signs with baby robins' faces to a parade of headline court cases with real consequential punishments. The edinburgh softly softly approach has worked to some extent but the trouble is that it's mostly sensible drivers that follow it, and sensible drivers are more likely to be observant, courteous, competent and law abiding in other things like insurance and MOTs etc. Whereas the people who ignore it are more likely to be arseholes and arseholes are never arseholes about just one thing. Maybe this is the time to bring in the full judge dredd approach, probably they could sweep up a lot of driving while disqualifieds, uninsureds etc at the same time
– I am more likely to hit a pedestrian as I have to look at my speedo rather than the road and pavements.
I always love this one. People happily shouting "you can't change the law because I am an incompetent driver".
All of Cambridge, bar the ring road, has been 20 mph for years – no one sticks to it.
Same in Bristol. However, while people speed, they're going slower than when the limit was 30 mph. So it's a win of sorts.
We have that here in our town in the Highlands.
It's great from the cycling perspective because the halfwits who would pass on a narrow urban road at 40 now do so at 30mph or slightly less.
More and more people are obeying the limit now, and it has a marked beneficial effect on general road courtesy.
I live near 2 schools and it has made the morning madness much less so because the 20mph limit is being observed.
Driving is a whole lot more pleasant during our rush minute.
I'm all for it.
We've just had the road markings done, but awaiting the signs to be changed. No real difference so far (to be fair, until the signs are done it's pointless thinking on it!). Whilst it's a good thing, I can't help but think it'll make naff all difference, as those ignoring the 30 tend to do so by quite some way, so not sure they'll care about the 20 either. That said, it only takes the car in front to slow down all those behind - downside to this is that it might actually increase the amount of overtaking through the village.
– I find 20mph very difficult as it is between 2nd and 3rd gears
I'm pretty in favour of 20mph limits in busy cities and resi roads - but I do agree with that statement! My car is not happy at 20, its too fast for 2nd and too slow for 3rd!
Seriously?
I’m pretty in favour of 20mph limits in busy cities and resi roads – but I do agree with that statement! My car is not happy at 20, its too fast for 2nd and too slow for 3rd!
And yet so many places in Europe manage with 30kph limits. How? HOW?
I used to drive at 20mph in 6th in my old V6 Golf - it had enough torque and it was nice and sluggish, so was hard to accidently increase the speed.
All of Brussels (well apart from a small number of major roads) is moving to 30kph (about 20mph) from January. FB is going to explode :).
Chuckling at this idea that a speed is "between gears" and therefore shouldn't be a speed limit. Surely for any given speed you've normally got two or more would do an acceptable job, so to be unable to find one you can't be looking very hard. On top of this there's acceleration, deceleration, gradient, all of which are rarely precisely zero anyway. Ya just might have to change gear sometimes (til you go electric).
Nothing but good things for all residential areas to be 20. In a nutshell.
None of the complaints I have heard hold water.
Mind you that 'getting distracted and mowing down pedestrians' one is a doozy. Be honest what you just said was 'I'm too shit at driving to drive'