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Well, you can get used to 20
Yes, outside schools, hospitals, residential areas etc
Yes, that was always the point from the very start. Residential areas.
I am infuriated that this has subject has been resurrected for purely political reasons.
It really had fallen off the radar here and now it's back in the room because a new minister wants to pretend to change something with smoke and mirrors into what it already is.
It was settling down, people were getting used to it, realising that if you actually go out an drive around and look at how it has been implemented it is not really any trouble.
People were only ever annoyed by the IDEA of it, if you ever asked "what about the zone outside this very pub?" the response was always "that one's fine it's going past people's houses" and when asked "so which ones are not fine?" there is a bit of mumbling about "erm...erm...apparently there's a terrible on in Cardiff" where nobody can go over 20 before midnight anyway.
Try seeing it from the perspective of people who do not agree with 20mph, rather than the world just through your own eyes dont be such a narrow minded condescending person, for everyone’s sake.
If you were struggling to hold speed riding through berms, someone may suggest getting some coaching. Good advice.
You describe struggling to drive safely at 20mph (by pointing out that you keep watching the speedo rather than the road, your words, not mine). I am therefore suggesting you get some coaching to help you with that skills gap.
You call then condescending, I call it topical advice.
Its also worth saying that I have never had anyone over take me in a 20mph zone, despite it being in place here now for 3 years or so.
In the car I've had a couple overtake me in a 20mph only to get held up almost immediately in front of me. One stopped at lights, I pulled up alongside and was able to say, 'Aiden, why are you driving like a dick?' through his passenger's open window because my daughter knew who he was. 😀
On the bike I've had plenty overtake me in a 20mph when I'm doing 20, including two this morning, one after the other, who had nowhere to go in front of me other than to hold me up. Dicks.
And yes in one of my cars 20mph is awkward. The car is an automatic so I have no control of the gear. At 20mph it either sits relatively high in the rev range or too low, then it hunts between the 2 gears.
That sounds like a really crap car, can you let us know what manufacture/model please so we know to avoid it please.
FWIW in my auto 320d while I'm driving along I've no idea what gear it is in (without selecting manual mode), but know it always seems to be in the 'right' gear.
That sounds like a really crap car, can you let us know what manufacture/model please so we know to avoid it please.
Something like a Rover SD1, 3 speed auto at a guess...
Scotland also continues the roll out:
I always like to remind those having an online pop at the 20's & Labour that my TORY council here in Scotland introduced 'blanket' (sic) 20 limits in urban areas.
It's depressing that so many people look at new policies with the view of "how does this benefit me?", instead of "how does this benefit society?".
so many people look at new policies with the view of “how does this benefit me?”, instead of “how does this benefit society?”.
Is that one of the defining differences between right wing and left wing politics? (with some exceptions such as that pointed out by intheborders
I've just spent two weeks in north Wales, Llanberis for the first and Betws Y Coed for the second. I had no problem with the 20 speed limits, was relaxing and much easier on narrow roads with parked cars. Gave both directions chance to get through.
I'll be honest there were a couple of moments initially where I'd ended up at thirty through habit, once the neurons fired I was back at speed limit. I quickly got used to it. I would have no problem with 20 being introduced where I live in Cumbria (this happened during lockdowns, it was great).
No problem sitting at 20 in my van. Most people seemed to be sticking to limit or 25mph, which is better than 35!
Just to add, got home last night, driving at 30 through Windermere now seems far too quick.
Is that one of the defining differences between right wing and left wing politics?
The difference between left and right is where you draw the boundary between 'us' and 'them'.
I was walking in Cardiff city centre the other day and two blokes were walking behind me. First bloke asked "20mph isn't all roads though, is it?" His mate replied "Yeah, it's blanket, it's everywhere, it's ridiculous". The road we were walking along is 30, there were big 30 signs right in front of them, and they would have driven along it for quite some distance to get to their parking spot.
I think the Welsh are finally running out of black spray paint and turps - given the number of 'defaced' road signs.
Great result.
"The number of people injured on 20 and 30mph roads in Wales fell by almost a third in the final quarter of last year, new data published by the Welsh government shows."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjee04vlqglo
I am not surprised, driving at 20mph in a car does seem very slow and therefore you would need to be really not concentrating to end up driving into anything.
I have been setting cruise control to 20mph over last few days as the roads have all been chip sealed with 10mph max/skid risk. It just feels so ridiculously safe compared to the 30 or 40 limits that the roads have.
It just feels so ridiculously safe compared to the 30 or 40 limits that the roads have.
Down with that sort of thing!
Another remarkable statistic that is hard to argue against:
Now we just need lower premiums in Wales due to lower risk.
I recently spent a week in the Scottish Borders where 20mph speed limits have been in place for some years. They appeared to be obeyed at all times and I was never harassed to go faster, conversely around here (Chesterfield and North East Derbyshire) I get harassed regularly for complying with the 30, 40 and 50 limits! I read the report above this morning and wasn’t surprised at all it is quite obvious that life will be safer, except to right wing zealots it would appear..
@molgrips Lab campaigning on reducing insurance costs in the UK. I’m dubious they can do anything about this given it’s an international issue but they know what they need to do.
As an aside in Gear Change, there was a commitment to allowing communities to petition local government to reduce speed limits or introduce modal filters. It would be nice if the more progressive parties would commit to this…
I drove through North Wales this week for the first time since the speed limit changes. Was absolutely fine. Signage was good, nobody overtook me in 20 limits, didn't take appreciably longer than before.
A little aside. My recently put back on the road BSA. Its an utter bugger to ride at 20 mph. Has to be second gear but revs are a bit high and it will not run well at a steady 20 mph - its on pilot jet and hunts coughs and splutters. grrrrrrrr. 🙂
Old bike - older than me 🙂
Just had to pass all the way through Wales to get to Pembrokeshire. I have no problem with the 20 mph limit in built up environments but it's implementation feels shambolic as an outsider (live in Edinburgh so aware of 20mph changes). Zones feel randomly allocated, 40 in locations I'd regard as 20 suitable, and many locations where the limit drops from a 60 national limit to a 20 without notification other than an Araf/ Slow on the road surface. This doesn't however specifically designate a speed zone change but the condition of the road.
Overall not particularly impressed. Inconsistent is how I'd describe it.
Also, there seemed to be a shortage of 30mph signage...perhaps the local supplier had run out. Plenty of 20 to 40 to 50 to national speed signs tho 👏🤦♂️
many locations where the limit drops from a 60 national limit to a 20 without notification
Well the 20s should only be in built up areas so the presence of buildings should make you assume it's going to be 20. But yeah, some "20 ahead" signs wouldn't go amiss - some places have plenty of "30 ahead" ones. But then again, most rural Welsh councils have low budgets so there are fewer signs in general of all types.
There's something very controlling, top-down command-control, meddlesome and incompetent about those in control of the Welsh "parliament".
Unfortunately the same mind-virus is coming to Westminster on 5th of July
I've got a long drive across the middle of Wales in a couple of weeks, driving there used to be a joy
No one is in control of the Welsh parliament - no party has overall control. The largest party (Labour) only has 30 seats of a maximum possible 60.
The 20mph policy was voted through by a majority of all parties though - Conservative, Plaid Cymru and Labour as it was judged by them to be good policy and appropriate for Wales
I’ve got a long drive across the middle of Wales in a couple of weeks, driving there used to be a joy
thoughts and prayers
I’ve got a long drive across the middle of Wales in a couple of weeks, driving there used to be a joy
Yeah my driving was ruined when 30mph became 20mph, I literally got rid of my car soon after.
Yeah my driving was ruined when 30mph became 20mph, I literally got rid of my car soon after.
Standard practice is to drive at 40mph* through the NSL sections and 40mph through the reduced speed areas anyway, so not sure why he's worried about his drive being spoiled?
*unless there's potential that someone in the queue of traffic behind might overtake and then you accelerate to 58 for a few seconds before dropping back down to 40 again.
Well the 20s should only be in built up areas so the presence of buildings should make you assume it’s going to be 20.
In the same way we think about 30 being the default in England in a built up area. If you can't figure it out, hand back your ****ing license.
I drove across wales twice in the last few months. 20 limits were no issue at all bar one which was 3/4 of the way down a steep slope with no warning sign - a bit tricky to get down to 20 without hard braking. Every other 20 mph limit I saw was appropriate, well signed and zero issue
Standard practice is to drive at 40mph* through the NSL sections and 40mph through the reduced speed areas anyway, so not sure why he’s worried about his drive being spoiled?
I’m not in my 70s yet.
I’m not in my 70s yet.
What's that tartan rug doing on your parcel shelf then, Grandad?
Drac out in his motor!... 🙂
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There’s something very controlling, top-down command-control, meddlesome and incompetent about those in control of the Welsh “parliament”.Is it not referred to as the Senedd or Senedd Cymru?
It certainly is. He really is a crap troll.
There’s something very controlling, top-down command-control, meddlesome and incompetent about those in control of the Welsh “parliament”.
You mean by setting speed limits, like almost everywhere else in the world? Like we had before?
I’ve got a long drive across the middle of Wales in a couple of weeks, driving there used to be a joy
It still is! All those long open B roads are still 60 for goodness' sake. You do realise it's not ALL roads that are 20mph right? Only in towns and villages. Did you take joy from trundling through a small village at 30mph that will now be ruined at 20mph? You absolute plonker.
I’ve got a long drive across the middle of Wales in a couple of weeks, driving there used to be a joy
Why don't you just stick to the motorways and avoid the 20mph limits?
[yes I'm being sarcastic, because the 20's only apply though the villages that would have been 30 previously anyway, it must have added, ohhhhhhh, seconds to our journey time from England to Porthmaddog. The 20's are about as relevant to journey times in Mid / North Wales as the motorways]
There’s something very controlling, top-down command-control, meddlesome and incompetent about those in control of the Welsh “parliament”.
Unfortunately the same mind-virus is coming to Westminster on 5th of July
I’ve got a long drive across the middle of Wales in a couple of weeks, driving there used to be a joy
Believe in Leave, Boris Johnson, Capital Punishment and none of that Green nonsense by any chance?
Believe in Leave, Boris Johnson, Capital Punishment and none of that Green nonsense by any chance?
"Love speedin', hate paedos, simple as"
Tj your experience must be unique. It was poorly executed in my opinion. 40mph in areas with front facing houses, and 20 where their were shops. Also seemed to go with wealth of the local area, with the well heeled areas being 20. Just an outsider observation!
Molgrips...there were villages and small area of housing with houses at both sides of the road, front door on to the pavement, 40mph. Nuts. All the roads that lead to Swansea and Cardiff are fine, the rest of Wales seems like it was decided by a bingo ball setup.
Speed limits have often been inconsistent as long as I've been driving. There were two roads out of town where I went to college so similar that it took me a while to remember which was which, however one was 30 and one 40.
Hopefiendboy - I was driving cross country on A roads where I went in and out of villages - no big towns
"Is it not referred to as the Senedd or Senedd Cymru?"
Either Senedd Cymru or Welsh Parliament are acceptable, although most people colloquially just call it the Senedd now whether speaking in English or Cymraeg.
The comments pages of Welsh online newspapers are littered with comments from some folk usually of a particular political persuasion who still call it "The Assembly" which is well out of date now although there are still a few old official road signs littered around that still have the A word on them.
The Senedd shouldn't be confused with the Welsh Government who are the Executive whereas the Senedd is the Legislature. Although in the early days of Welsh devolution there was a Welsh Assembly Government rather than a Welsh Government.
Simples!
I’ve got a long drive across the middle of Wales in a couple of weeks, driving there used to be a joy
It still is, the views are wonderful and you get to see more of them now as speed cameras mean that (most) people aren't driving like ****s.
I live in Cardiff and it's made the city a much nicer place to be whether driving, cycling or walking, when driving you never feel that the limits have been implemented badly, it's been well thought out and roads that are wider and safe to do 30mph on have been left at 30mph ( Manor Way, Newport Rd etc). It's also noticeable how more people are sticking to the limit as time goes on, deffo less of the die hard anti 20mph brigade sitting right up your chuff.
When driving in West Wales recently there is definitely some inconsistency and some roads where sections are 20mph where there are just a few houses well set back from the road and others where similar sections are 40mph, so I can see where some people have become frustrated due to clumsy implementation, hopefully things will smooth out over time.
The biggest disappointment has been the Welsh Conservatives using it as a political wedge issue and campaigning against it even tho they proposed and campaigned for it in the first place.
There’s something very controlling, top-down command-control, meddlesome and incompetent about those in control of the Welsh “parliament”.
Why, got any examples?
A little aside. My recently put back on the road BSA. Its an utter bugger to ride at 20 mph. Has to be second gear but revs are a bit high and it will not run well at a steady 20 mph – its on pilot jet and hunts coughs and splutters. grrrrrrrr. 🙂
Don't think fuel injection was ever an option on those? 😉
I’ve got a long drive across the middle of Wales in a couple of weeks, driving there used to be a joy
As many have pointed out… little has changed outside of towns and villages. But more importantly, it’s not all about drivers is it? Even if driving were less enjoyable, there are real, practical, life and death reasons why we need speed limits. It would be ludicrous not to impose speed limits that make someone else’s enjoyment of the streets less dangerous and unpleasant just so our driving experience can be joyful.
I would prefer it if we could have streets in which speed is designed or engineered out. That would cost a load and take ages to achieve. So all we have is speed limits. I’m glad they have been reduced to 20.
I find people complaining about 20mph limits one of the most depressing areas of the internet.
These limits are primarily about road safety for anyone not in motor vehicle. They also result in quieter roads, nicer neighbourhoods and better flowing traffic. Yet so many motorists invest time and energy into getting furious about them because of the tiny, tiny, inconvenience of it taking 25 seconds longer to drive through a town. Because this is such an illogical complaint, instead they talk about increased/decreased/wrong amount of revs, made up environmental impacts, being too easily distracted, conspiracies of cabal governments (despite the limits getting cross party support) and any other guff rather than admitting the truth, they just don't like driving at 20mph. A lot of the complaints seem to come from people who do not live in these areas, instead form those passing through.
It is like listening to a American arguing about guns, they will list loads of reasons other than admitting that they just really like guns. If you object to the speed limits, just be honest and admit you like to drive faster and don't care about any other road users.
Spent two weeks in Wales. Going from 50 to 20mph was brutal. I actually quite enjoyed the 20 zones, got to have a good look about.
gowerboy
Full MemberAs many have pointed out… little has changed outside of towns and villages. But more importantly, it’s not all about drivers is it?
Yep. I say it over and over, are streets and towns just things to drive through as fast as possible to get somewhere else, or are they places for humans to live? Is a city just a place to drive to and park? It seems to actually convince some people, unlike most arguments- not everyone jogs or cycles or has kids but most people live near a road. Do you pay your ridiculous rent or crushing mortgage and your council tax just so some random can fly past your bedroom at 40mph on a road that only exists because of the homes?
My 20mph street is lovely, that shouldn't be a privilege for the places we live to prioritise the people who live there, it's just the only sane way for it to be.
And I'm a bloody petrolhead, I loved my bikes, I'm just finishing up an engine swap on my MX5, I love driving fast when appropriate, I do trackdays etc, even raced once... But town driving sucks, no matter the speed limit. It can't be made fast, or enjoyable, the most car-first traffic systems in the developed world are the ones that are the biggest dystopian nightmares. Literally the best we can do is make it mellower.
Speed limits have often been inconsistent as long as I’ve been driving. There were two roads out of town where I went to college so similar that it took me a while to remember which was which, however one was 30 and one 40.
Yeah, same with the A4 and A420 west out of Chippenham. One has houses set back from the road on one side, fields on the other, the other had houses set back from the road on one side, and a large area of derelict land on on the other, but one was 30, the other 40. One I used to drive fairly regularly, the other not so much, and as a result I assumed both were 40, until I got busted as I came out the other side of the structure carrying the main railway line to Bath.
the A420 went from 30 to 40 where the fields started, it was easy to assume the same with the A4, and I guess the police knew lots of drivers thought the same and sat out of sight where the limit ‘should’ have changed, if both roads followed the same signing protocol. 🤷🏼
It is like listening to a American arguing about guns, they will list loads of reasons other than admitting that they just really like guns. If you object to the speed limits, just be honest and admit you like to drive faster and don’t care about any other road users.
Same demographic too.
"It still is! All those long open B roads are still 60 for goodness’ sake. You do realise it’s not ALL roads that are 20mph right? Only in towns and villages. Did you take joy from trundling through a small village at 30mph that will now be ruined at 20mph? You absolute plonker."
Just got back. Drove 100s of miles over many hours in central Wales. Think a camera or two got me as they're positioned right on the 20 / 30 sign change-over point,. so after grinding along in 2nd for 5 mins, you're 30 yards from a 30, change up to 3rd and then notice the camera too late. Utterly ridiculous, massive waste of money, everyone I spoke to said the police won't be enforcing, complete fiasco. Are English towns and villages scenes of carnage every day as cars fly around at a terrifying 30 mph in towns and villages?
Who's the absolute plonkers now? Yep, the top-down nanny-state Labour control-freaks in the Welsh parliament who have wasted a ton of tax and wound everyone up. A 30mph limit doesn't mean cars literally drive at 30 through a narrow windy village - Its that nanny knows best stuff you expect from socialist public servants.
The irony is, after painfully and pointlessly crawling at 20 for umpteen times you get back onto the A40 on a Sunday and realise its an unofficial IOM TT race circuit with virtually no policing. I had a Mitsubishi Evo overtake me and another over a solid white line on a twisty section past Llandovery doing 90+, hotly pursued by 6 bikes. Just debating if I can be arsed uploading the dashcam footage to the police portal
If it makes you so angry, does that mean you won't be coming back?
Whereas I've just had a week's holiday in Wales, loved the relaxed pace of the 20 zones, and if I got caught by any cameras, it was my own fault for not concentrating and breaking the law.
Think a camera or two got me as they’re positioned right on the 20 / 30 sign change-over point,. so after grinding along in 2nd for 5 mins, you’re 30 yards from a 30, change up to 3rd and then notice the camera too late.
You don't seem very bright. It would have taken you 1 extra second to stay at 20 for those 30 yards, maybe give that a go next time and save on the fine.
grimep
I'm assuming that since you didn't say otherwise you are the Leave voting, Boris Johnson loving, let 'em hang anti-Green demographic - or is it easier just to refer to you as "Gammon"?
Think a camera or two got me
Where's that platinum level like button when you need it?
Glad to see the system works; people driving who are unable or unwilling to control a vehicle get caught out instead of far worse consequences, including for those on bicycles. I'd call that a win.
As for the England/Wales thing; there's plenty of 20mph in England, so hand in your licence or get it taken off you, but adapt either way.
Oh look it’s our resident grumpy troll.
I went to New Quay area of Wales on holiday a couple of weeks ago.
Can't say I found too much trouble with the 20mph zones. The open road speed limits where no different to Derbyshire.
Grimep you sound like a toddler having a tantrum.
When you drive there are literally only 2 things you control. Your speed of travel and your direction of travel.
If you can't do half the job effectively then you should surrender your driving licence.
Now off to the playroom for some nice calming colouring in.
Having lived here for the past few decades I've not yet had a speeding ticket. TBH anyone who can't see either a big yellow box on a post, liveried up van or a copper with a speedgun isn't very observant so shouldn't really be driving.
Anyway grimep, off you pop back to Jaywick, I'm sure that you have been missed.
Think a camera or two got me as they’re positioned right on the 20 / 30 sign change-over point
I'm calling bullshit on this and hoping I'm wrong.
Should you even be driving, if you can neither see a speed limit nor drive to it?
I drive alot in Wales. You just need to pay attention to the road signs.
There are some places where 20 would have been a good idea, ie village on main A road with school but still 40mph (not far from Llangollen). Locals had put up cardboard cut outs of kids asking drivers to slow down.
Just back from a week in France where there are a lot more 30kph limits now, once you get used to it quite relaxing and the French all seem to stick to the limits.
Can we knock off with the unpleasant personal remarks at grimep please? Not really necessary.
You just need to pay attention to the road signs.
I often slip up with this. Still. I tend to get angry with myself rather than the "top-down nanny-state Labour control-freaks". When I fail at driving I consider that my fault, take responsibility, and try to improve.
Can we knock off with the unpleasant personal remarks at grimep please? Not really necessary.
I guess so, but what you reap is what you sow.