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Apparently they are changing the guidance so something is changing from the original roll out. Was down in South Wales at Easter, 20 did seem a bit slow on some rural roads through villages. In Cardiff it generally felt OK although I think average speeds were closer to 25 on open stretches of road in town. Many places though 20 was fine and you'd struggle to get above it with all the parked cars, traffic lights, junctions and intermittent bus lanes.
This might actually work quite well, it needed the blanket approach initially, hopefully now the minority of roads that need increasing will occur but the majority will be left at 20.
It's not "blanket". That makes it sound like it's more than it is, which is why the Tories are so fond of the term.
Hmmm, government introduces policy that is widely successful, identifies ways to improve it in certain places, gets roundly criticised and lampooned by headbangers for doing the right thing.
We're ****ed as a nation, aren't we.....
20 did seem a bit slow on some rural roads through villages
It's all about perspective. We were down in Devon at Easter and 30mph felt reckless in a lot of places! And yes, I did slow down.
We were down in Devon at Easter and 30mph felt reckless in a lot of places!
Yeah, well, in Devon, especially South Hams, the quickest way to get anywhere, like from Dartmouth to Kingsbridge, is to get behind a bus and follow it, ‘cos everyone coming the other way has to give way to it. Same thing going from Stokenham down to Beesands - get behind another vehicle like a bus or delivery van and follow it, trying to reverse back up a 1:4 hill with blind corners isn’t a lot of fun.
I speak from experience.
Just to add, in Wiltshire, once you get south of Warminster, 40 is about the maximum top speed, especially if you get stuck behind a farm vehicle with a trailer; I got behind one once, I think I spent nearly nine miles before there was a stretch of road long and empty enough to overtake, and it was about six miles before I had anything else in front of me, everyone else was still stuck behind the tractor! South of the A30/303, Wiltshire, Dorset, Somerset, Devon and Cornwall are all the same - I spent enough hours driving around down there to find out the hard way.
Hmmm, government introduces policy that is widely successful, identifies ways to improve it in certain places, gets roundly criticised and lampooned by headbangers for doing the right thing.
when I watched it on the news, I thought they were going to real off a load of stats that showed that reducing speed limits hasn’t saved any more lives, reduced road accidents, or reduced pollution. But no it appears the reason is because it’s an election year and people don’t like it
Very sad really
We've had it for years and I think it's great. Next town down the road is in a different region and has 30 in towns, which now feels ridiculously fast.
I'd say I've seen 4or5 kids saved from injury (caused by phone zombie mode) because the car was easily able to stop short of contact.
@FunkyDunc It feels very much like the usual ‘progressive party bowing to a small noisy minority of people who won’t vote for them anyway’. As with LTNs/ULEZ etc I suspect that, if they hold their nerve, it will prove popular (or at worst most people won’t care) and it will do no electoral harm.
“Yeah, well, in Devon, especially South Hams, the quickest way to get anywhere, like from Dartmouth to Kingsbridge, is to get behind a bus and follow it, ‘cos everyone coming the other way has to give way to it. Same thing going from Stokenham down to Beesands – get behind another vehicle like a bus or delivery van and follow it, trying to reverse back up a 1:4 hill with blind corners isn’t a lot of fun.
I speak from experience.”
I came off Dartmoor yesterday on a route I had never been down before and the roads got pretty narrow in places. I tucked myself in behind a tractor and trailer and took advantage of the free run he created 😁
He pulled over to let me through and I just gestured to him to carry on 😂
Was down in South Wales at Easter, 20 did seem a bit slow on some rural roads through villages. In Cardiff it generally felt OK
Always seems the other way round to me - lots of wide roads in Cardiff. and the surrounding areas with little chance of an unseen person emerging from behind a parked car or kids playing on the street - 20 just seems like a speed trap - whereas up in the valleys with narrow roads going through towns and villages and lots of cars parked on the road side, the 20mph limit seems much more appropriate. And there are some places still at 40mph through narrow street villages that should be 20mph but aren't because they weren't 30mph in the first place so escaped the change.
What it needs is someone sensible from the institute of andvanced motorists or similar, to drive round the Welsh roads noting which sections have inapproproate limits, and then getting exceptions raised for them.
Just to add, in Wiltshire, once you get south of Warminster, 40 is about the maximum top speed
Yesterday we went on a day trip and I drove along loads of brilliant winding country roads, most of which was 60mph. Where was I? Wales of course.
lots of wide roads in Cardiff. and the surrounding areas with little chance of an unseen person emerging from behind a parked car or kids playing on the street – 20 just seems like a speed trap
It's not only about safety. If you can get your head round it, lower speed limits means traffic flows better. I'm guessing you're thinking of Caerphilly road - this is very busy with some crap junctions that require lane changing, so I think 20 is going to help there.
people massively over complicate this issue. 20mph is safer, helps traffic flow, doesn’t materially impact on journey times and encourages active travel. All this time and effort debating and implementing exclusions is stupid.
@franksinatra I would love to see the polling about how people opposing 20mph zones/LTNs/CAZ/whatever then go on to vote. As above I bet they’re all Tory/Reform.
There is very little evidence that opposing this stuff is enough of a wedge issue to get elected; suggestion from Paris is that if they hold their nerve, there is little electoral fallout.
If you can get your head round it, lower speed limits means traffic flows better.
which wasn't the reason for implementing the speed change, safety was. All the studies justifying it were based on safety, not traffic flow, for which it is debateable, as are the suppossed savings from the increase in safety (according to my GP friend).
My late 70's dad called by today as I was car tinkering, once again he was frothing at the mouth about it despite not having been to Wales since the 20mph limits came in (they haven't avoided it but Covid then an operation).
The reason he gets so het up about it is the daily ****ing mail arse wipe rag that my folks belove.
They are going to Porthmadog next week so I'm awaiting the fall out about it.
which wasn’t the reason for implementing the speed change, safety was
I don't think there was just one reason.
All the studies justifying it were based on safety, not traffic flow, for which it is debateable, as are the suppossed savings from the increase in safety (according to my GP friend).
How can it be debatable that slower cars mean less severe injuries? As for traffic flow - this is well proven and also very obvious. If you're from Cardiff you'll be familiar with the Gabalfa roundabout. When it was a traditional setup, it was almost impossible to get out of Whitchurch road because of the number of people swinging round it at higher speeds. You'd get a nice big gap but due to the speed of the oncoming driver it wasn't safe. Their impatience pinned you down and you'd be waiting for 5 minutes sometimes. They they made it a 20 limit on the roundabout (which was of course ignored) but they also made it one lane which slowed people down, and guess what - more people could pull out, leading to better traffic flow. It's not just this roundabout - more people can pull out if everyone's going slower.
thought they were going to real off a load of stats that showed that reducing speed limits hasn’t saved any more lives, reduced road accidents, or reduced pollution
There are no stats yet to prove it works or doesn’t yet. It will need years to achieve that to remove the impact of other factors and random natural variation
There are no stats yet to prove it works or doesn’t yet
I think there are in other areas.
The thing that gets me is that the MS all live in Wales themselves. They also have to stick to 20mph limits. And yet, having done the research most of them agree it's worth it.
I assume there are some stats from Scotland where there have been 20mph limits in urban areas for a while, IIRC, and from lots of European countries where they’ve dropped the urban speed limit from 50kph to 30?
And physics, of course.
(Before anyone says ‘but no-one sticks to it’, no-one sticks to 30 either and if that means people slow from doing 35 to doing 25 there’s still a beneficial effect).
TBH gettign hit at 30 is definitely worse than getting hit at 20. But people don't actually get hit by cars that much and when you do it tends to be in slower areas anyway. And car vs car at 30 is pretty safe, these days.
I genuinely don't care about the safety side, I mean I hope it helps but I'm pretty confident that the actual numbers will be really low. I don't really care much about the emission side either. But I live in a 20, and it makes it a better place to live. It's quieter, nicer to walk or cycle, way better for kids, it's also nicer to drive yourself, less stressful. That alone's worth it.
Towns are supposed to be places to live not places for people who live somewhere else to drive through as fast as possible, for so long we've had that completely backwards. People can have different opinions about 20 limits in general but when you get specific and speak to someone who lives in a street that's gone from 30 to 20, how many people ever say they'd turn it back?
But people don’t actually get hit by cars that much and when you do it tends to be in slower areas anyway.
You what? Govt stats:
"In 2022, 385 pedestrians were killed in Great Britain, whilst 5,901 were reported to be seriously injured (adjusted) and 13,041 slightly injured"
So, one person a day is worth sacrificing for a few minutes saved? If you care so little maybe it should be someone you love tomorrow?
There's 67 million of us, 385 is not very many. And of course cutting 30 to 20 won't save all of them so it's far from "one person a day". The welsh government's estimate is 6-10 lives saved a year. Of course you don't want that to be someone you love but that's just an appeal to emotion, the reality is the speed limit change will have a trivial real world benefit when you make it just about that, 6 is too few to be impactful. So that's a bad idea, if you actually want it to stick.
When you look at the full basket of benefits, the arguments for speed limit reduction are far better, and benefit far more people. The anti brigade are all about saving minutes, and wailing about the "nanny state", nobody who's bothered by that will ever be swayed by an argument about saving 6 lives. And god forbid the stats come in and it's only 5! Because of course, most people aren't great at statistics so it's very easy to make bad arguments out of them- 385 was the 3rd lowest in the last decade, it's totally possible that the next couple of years will be higher not lower and just wait for the noise people make if that happens.
But 85% of people live in urban areas and can experience the real world, day to day benefits of it. It's just it's less persuasive because we don't talk about it enough, in fact it's barely mentioned. What I'm saying is, let's not make it all about weak numerical arguments that people will easily dismiss because nobody believes they'll be one of the 385. Even if it saves 0 lives and 0 injuries and 0g of co2 it's still totally worthwhile
I'm with Northwind - on our trip to Wales last year towns and villages were so much nicer with traffic at 20-25 rather than 30-40.
Looking forward to going back in July
Key stat to note, the Thinking Distance for someone driving at 30 is further than the Thinking AND Stopping Distance for someone driving at 20.
At risk of sounding like a broken record, most people are in favour of this stuff, but the antis tend to be better organised. If you feel strongly the other way, please, please get involved with your local active travel group (even if that's just to do a bit of SoMe reposting/contacting councillors etc). This is a link to the Greater Manchester one, there will be equivalents in most places.
Regular driver in Wales and it really doesn't bother me. It was great cycling through Rhudlan on Friday near rush hour as no cars passed me at all (road bike). Same in Rhyl.
I do have to remember when driving as you soon hit 20 when pulling away, but it's way more relaxed driving.
385 is not very many.
Where do you draw the line? What's your personal limit for acceptable casualties on the road? 386? Or would you change your mind at 400? What about if one of those 385 included one of your children? Could you genuinely say at that point that you think that 385 is "not too many" and an acceptable toll in order to drive at 30mph in a village instead of 20mph?
There's no evidence that a 20mph limit has caused problems beyond the made-up claims that driving slightly slower increases emissions. It doesn't affect traffic flow, and if anything improves it as it makes it easier for people to pull out of junctions.
We've had the new 20mph zones in the Highlands for the last 6 months.
Are they generally observed - no
Are people going a bit slower than previously - yes
The issue as ever is consistency in implementation. A few houses on the side of the road (not enough to call a settlement or have a road sign or street lights) on a rural national speed limits B road is a 20mph zone in one instance and continues at 60mph in another with no discernible difference the nature of the 'community'. My local town (Nairn) has a 20mph zone than goes on for about half a mile of fields after the last dwelling on one road but the national speed limit sign is before the last dwellings on another. One small hamlet with a B road through it has maintained its 30mph on the B road with 20mph on the side roads. An even smaller hamlet 2 miles further down the same road is 20mph through it on the same B road. With inconsistency comes confusion and lack of respect.
I don’t think there was just one reason.
From the gov.wales site :
We made this change to:
- reduce the number of collisions and severe injuries from them (also reducing the impact on the NHS from treating the people who are injured)
- encourage more people to walk and cycle in our communities
- help to improve our health and well-being
- make our streets safer
- safeguard the environment for future generations.
No mention of traffic flow but lots for safety or safety related (encourage people to walk and cycle more)
There's also money being spent on 'active travel' routes to encourage people to cycle to work more, for example. One of the routes goes through PontyPridd park (think that might be part of the Taff Trail), which is locked up at some stupid early hour, so not really an encouragement to use it for commuting - although in reality it probablky OK as people seem to work as few hours as possoble here and 'rush hour' seems to start about 4pm.
I assume there are some stats from Scotland where there have been 20mph limits in urban areas for a while
So where are they and what do they show? Im going to guess they are inconclusive given neither side in the debate is using them to their advantage.
Key stat to note, the Thinking Distance for someone driving at 30 is further than the Thinking AND Stopping Distance for someone driving at 20.
Back in the 1960s when these were last measured, they have never been updated to show the current picture. One of the car TV programmes did it and found most modern cars actually stop in between half and 2/3rds of the official distance.
If your using that as a argument then we wont have any lorries on the roads as they will never stop from 20mph as fast as a car from 30mph and its reasonable to assume the same thinking time. I would also rather be hit by a car at 30 than an lorry at 20
"Key stat to note, the Thinking Distance for someone driving at 30 is further than the Thinking AND Stopping Distance for someone driving at 20."
Back in the 1960s when these were last measured, they have never been updated to show the current picture. One of the car TV programmes did it and found most modern cars actually stop in between half and 2/3rds of the official distance.
While I agree with the idea that modern tyres and ABS will be hugely better than the outdated HC numbers. In this instance that has shot your arguement in the foot. The 20mph car would have stopped easily. The thinking distance for the 30mph car is unchanged.
I would also rather be hit by a car at 30 than an lorry at 20
But if the limit is 30, the lorries will be doing 30ish. And if there's a lower limit for LGVs, everyone else will be doing that too, because they'll be stuck behind a lorry.
While I agree with the idea that modern tyres and ABS will be hugely better than the outdated HC numbers. In this instance that has shot your arguement in the foot. The 20mph car would have stopped easily. The thinking distance for the 30mph car is unchanged.
Good to see someone is awake.
I've used the statement a few times, and normally those who are against the 20mph limits miss the nuance & understanding of the statement - mentally I put them into the 52% cohort 🙂
Even if it saves 0 lives and 0 injuries and 0g of co2 it’s still totally worthwhile
Tip: if you're in favour, perhaps don't lead with the 'saving six lives a year doesn't matter' line, because that's really playing into your opponents hands.
molgrips
Free MemberTip: if you’re in favour, perhaps don’t lead with the ‘saving six lives a year doesn’t matter’ line, because that’s really playing into your opponents hands.
Never said anything of the sort but, uh, thanks for the "tip" I guess?
Meanwhile there’s been some sort of U-turn announced - not clear on whether this is distraction (announce something that doesn’t amount to a real change) or political cowardice,
Meanwhile there’s been some sort of U-turn announced
No, there's an adjustment of some roads, which was highlighted as likely from the start of the process.
I'll file 'U-turn' with 'blanket' in the poor description of reality corner.
No, there’s an adjustment of some roads, which was highlighted as likely from the start of the process.
Except the new Transport Minister has said the guidelines will be changed. Either you take this at face value, in which case, if not a U-turn it’s certainly a step backwards, or it’s an attempt to spin the process in a way that appeases the opponents. I suspect the devil will be in the detail.
I suspect that the haterz are clutching at straws. If the current guidance says X but experience has shown that Y is OK, changing the guidelines is sensible progress, not a U turn.
Perspective is everything.
I fully agree with 30 limits but it is actually quite difficult to maintain 20mph. In both our cars it feels like it’s between gears, or the car just isn’t comfortable.
So you spend time watching the speedo trying to maintain 20 mph rather than eyes on the road.
one of our cars allows you to use cruise control at 20mph, one doesn’t. It’s easier to drive with it on in the car that has it which again imo defeats the objective
They are going to Porthmadog next week so I’m awaiting the fall out about it.
I've just had a long weekend there (and driven across Wales to get there obvs).
In the context of driving through towns and villages while travelling cross country, I think the 20mph limit works fairly well - as you never feel like you're crawling along for ages.
The outskirts of towns are still often 30 anyway, and there are quite a few 40 zones (which maybe used to be NSL) - so you have to really pay attention to the signage.
Coming back to England and driving at 30 through town suddenly felt quite fast.
No, there’s an adjustment of some roads
I believe the new transport minister has said the 20mph zones should be concentrated around schools hospitals and heavily built up (residential) areas - so just like England and Scotland (?) then!
I know quite a lot of people who live in NW Wales and they generally disagreed with it and not many people actually paid attention to it.
So you spend time watching the speedo trying to maintain 20 mph rather than eyes on the road.
It’s takes less than a second to glance down at your speed and then back up, no need to watch it. Do, watch your speedo doing any other speed?
It's a limit, not a target. You should be able to drive at a speed within a couple of mph without having to constantly look at the speedometer.
In both our cars it feels like it’s between gears, or the car just isn’t comfortable.
Your car is a lot like mine, in which 20mph is absolutely fine. But 'making my car slightly more comfortable' isn't a good reason to increase speed limits and cost lives even if it is 'only' ten a year.
It’s a limit, not a target. You should be able to drive at a speed within a couple of mph without having to constantly look at the speedometer.
I dont disagree. However in Wales many 20 mph roads are quite hilly up and down. At 20mph it doesnt take much throttle input to be exceeding the 7% over tolerance rule either going up a hill or then coasting back down the otherside.
My own experience of driving in the 20mph is that you constantly have people up your chuff getting angry or overtaking where its not safe to do so
I drove from the M4 A449 junction up to Barmouth last week. There were loads of 20mph speed limits through the towns & villages en route. I didn't find it a problem at all, and the majority of them aren't for very long anyway.🤷♂️
I fully agree with 30 limits but it is actually quite difficult to maintain 20mph. In both our cars it feels like it’s between gears, or the car just isn’t comfortable.
More likely just what you are used to. Cars have been designed to run properly at any speed from *just* above creep speed to the maximum speed the car is capable of for at least the last 30 years. I can happily trundle round my village at 18mph (the speed limit) with no hesitation or "discomfort". I've even done it towing a 2 tonne trailer full of wood, uphill. (Or downhill for that matter.) And testing is done in far more arduous conditions then mooching round the valleys, two up.
(There are very few exceptions in the *production* car world. If you've had a stupid pop/bang tune added to your car and it'll no longer idle/run cleanly, you deserve all the speeding tickets you get.)
So you spend time watching the speedo trying to maintain 20 mph rather than eyes on the road.
The classic I am a poor driver defence.
I live in Wales and have absolutely no problem with the 20mph speed limit. I pop the cruise control on and enjoy the slower, and safer, pace.
I find I can happily sit at 20 with almost no throttle, or 30 with just a touch - both in third gear.
I've only spent four days driving in Wales since the change, but I thought it was VERY well observed.
It's easy to maintain a speed by listening to the engine note. It's a bit harder in an EV but then I just use the speed limiter. Pretty easy.
At 20mph it doesnt take much throttle input to be exceeding the 7% over tolerance rule either going up a hill or then coasting back down the otherside.
You’re in for a shock when you find out that isn’t a rule.
I live in Wales and have absolutely no problem with the 20mph speed limit. I pop the cruise control on and enjoy the slower, and safer, pace.
I concur. Even without cruise control (which my car doesn't have) , and on a "fairly" high performance motorbike, I just listen to the engine note and drive using that, I'm not "constantly" checking the speedo.
Also live in Wales and the only 20 I want reversed is up a bloody steep hill - I basically have to do it in 2nd gear and my poor little car is screaming at me. At 30mph I could do it in 3rd no worries, now I basically just go up it at 15mph and deal with having lots of angry people behind me.
I basically have to do it in 2nd gear and my poor little car is screaming at me
It probably isn't, really, it just sounds a little higher than you'd want.
Oh it definitely is. It's pretty much being red lined especially if I've got the bikes/other people in the car - issues with having a pathetic 68bhp and a 15% gradient. It's not a problem, I just go slower.
Really, my point was 99.9% of the 20mph limits are absolutely fine. The 0.1% is just a bit more "uncomfortable"
Holding 20 takes a bit of getting used to, but after a couple of hundred yards, it's second nature, and really quite relaxing. Plus there is untold pleasure to be had watching irate people in your mirror who are finding out that some people do stick to the limit on their favourite rat-run.
I'm all in favour of 20mph limits in residential - the road safety figures speak for themselves.
If your a pedestrian hit by a car at 30 you've a 7% chance of death, hit by a car at 20 it's 1%.....
& driving at 20 or below is only 'hard' if your not used to it. Do you remember the sink kicked up by people when rear seat belts became mandatory? This is the same.
2nd gear in a 20,
3rd in a 30.
🤷♂️
It’s pretty much being red lined especially if I’ve got the bikes/other people in the car
What on earth are you driving that is being redlined at 20mph in second?
And why does the number of people and bikes make a difference to the RPM in second?
Do you remember the sink kicked up by people when rear seat belts became mandatory?
I’m older than that. 🙂
It’s pretty much being red lined especially if I’ve got the bikes/other people in the car
Your tachometer is out. i learned to drive in a 950cc Fiesta MK2 that would do about 25mph in first, 40 in second at the red line.
2nd gear in a 20,
3rd in a 30.
what if your car has 9 gears ?
what if your car has 9 gears ?
Then you're only allowed to use the first 7 of them (unless you're in Germany, etc.) 🙂
The 20 works OK when it is well implemented. Much of mid Wales has been done well, with 20 limits only applied through the middle of villages. North Wales (Denbighshire in particular) has, IMHO, been lazily done with 20 limits just replacing the old 30 in most cases. This means long stretches of 20 outside villages where there may be the odd house, but not a lot of foot traffic, etc. I can understand why people are frustrated in that sort of scenario.
I like the change that it has made to our village - there is less traffic noise, and it's much more pleasant to walk near the main road. I do think that the guidelines need to be tweaked, though, to reduce the 'dead' areas.
I certainly haven't found any cars impossible to drive at 20.
As I expected, we are seeing a new surge in whingeing about the 20mph limits as our lovely summer visitors from across the border encounter these for the first time.
Re to the above I think Cardiff has implemented it very well, hence why very few roads are expected to change, I did see a reply on a mate's FB post from someone saying that a particular stretch of road in town should be 30mph and it's ridiculous that it's 20mph, only for my friend to point out that the stretch in question passes two schools and an old people's home and is in a built up area for the whole of it ( Cardiff Rd from Fairwater Rd in to town), I think a lot of the anti 20mph crowd have no concept of travelling any other way than by car.
For me it's mostly about how much more pleasant it is as a driver, cyclist and pedestrian, the whole city just seems a much calmer place and I have to say that as someone who's family lost a child who was hit by a car at ( we think) around 30-35mph I can only hope that fewer families have to go through the devastation that caused, which ultimately lead to more than just the one death.
In both our cars it feels like it’s between gears, or the car just isn’t comfortable.
So you spend time watching the speedo trying to maintain 20 mph rather than eyes on the road.
At 20mph it doesnt take much throttle input to be exceeding the 7% over tolerance rule either going up a hill or then coasting back down the otherside.
Seriously, perhaps you could arrange a driving lesson or two to help you upskill. Consider it, for everyone’s sake.
How do those Dutch folk manage with 18mph limits everywhere in urban areas. Do they have different cars?
They have the selfishness implant removed i think TJ
I honestly can't see the fuss.
I was driving through the Borders last week, and most villages around there have a 20mph limit. No fuss, no fanfare, no wringing hands it's just the speed limit.
So you observe it or risk a fine. No drama.
My car will not only do 20 on cruise but it won't exceed whatever limit I select, no matter how steep the hill I'm going down. My OH's car though while it will cruise at 20 it will free-wheel past 20. Same with the Limiter.
But, there's a brake pedal that also enables me to slow down, does your car FunkyDunc have one of those too?
First car I had with cruise control didn't work under 40kph, but my current cars do. And the Merc will also brake on descents to avoid going over. I never used to use the limiter but it's pretty useful for 20mphs until you get used to it.
How do those Dutch folk manage with 18mph limits everywhere in urban areas.
Dutch? It's most of europe. I live on a 30kph road (a steep dirt track). And i'm several hundred km from the nearest dutch speed limit!
Do they have different cars?
Nope. More bikes though.
Your tachometer is out.
Or the clutch is well on the way out...
And lots of older cars have quite high minimum speeds for cruise as they have more basic, probably non-ASIL compliant sensors in other systems. So they need to have some sort of control to make sure that the driver is present when cruise is active... And having a minimum speed for activation of 30-40-50 kph is a good control.
I was driving through the Borders last week, and most villages around there have a 20mph limit. No fuss, no fanfare, no wringing hands it’s just the speed limit.
There was plenty of fuss when it first came in, the council officer overseeing its implementation received threats of violence. There were the same ridiculous arguments about extra revving, spending too long looking at speedo, additional vibrations on roads (I know), getting distracted through boredom etc etc. But theses have all fizzled out to just a tiny and very vocal minority who are still ranting in Facebook comments. Everyone else is just getting on with it.
Its also worth saying that I have never had anyone over take me in a 20mph zone, despite it being in place here now for 3 years or so.
Seriously, perhaps you could arrange a driving lesson or two to help you upskill. Consider it, for everyone’s sake.
FFS I am fully in favour of 20mph and quite capable of driving at 20mphs
Try seeing it from the perspective of people who do not agree with 20mph, rather than the world just through your own eyes dont be such a narrow minded condescending person, for everyone's sake.
And yes in one of my cars 20mph is awkward. The car is an automatic so I have no control of the gear. At 20mph it either sits relatively high in the rev range or too low, then it hunts between the 2 gears.
so you spend time watching the speedo trying to maintain 20 mph rather than eyes on the road.
I am fully in favour of 20mph and quite capable of driving at 20mphs
Which one is it?
And yes in one of my cars 20mph is awkward. The car is an automatic so I have no control of the gear. At 20mph it either sits relatively high in the rev range or too low,
Yes, that's how autos work. What's relatively high though (and low?), what are you expecting it to do, and why do you think it actually is too high/low? (And emissions/fuel consumption are determined by load not engine speed. Going from 1200/3rd to 1800/2nd with the same load will make 3/8ths of bugger all difference to consumption or emissions. The trade off being a minuscule amount of extra pumping losses with higher engine speed but slightly better combustion efficiency.) You need 3000+ rpm before it starts being significant or measurable outside of a test bed.
then it hunts between the 2 gears.
That's inexcusable, with steady throttle input and steady load nothing more than about 15 years old should still be hunting between gears. I mean, if you keep changing load or throttle input it will, obviously, change gear. It'll be looking for the best gear for the job... (I did some data collection on "anti hunting" algorithms in the early noughties. And it's a standard/built in feature of most 6 and up speed boxes available now.)
Try seeing it from the perspective of people who do not agree with 20mph
I am - from what I can tell it seems that they are grumpy that they have to drive a bit slower. Well, there is no moral framework in which your perceived inconvenience for a small distance outweighs the benefits of 20mph limits. The only reason you think 30mph is reasonable is because that's what you're used to. Well, you can get used to 20.
For those saying they struggle to drive at 20mph due to whatever reason with the car etc, how do you manage to follow a cyclist whilst you wait for a convenient and safe space to overtake? and what about slow moving traffic in a jam.? We all have to drive at 20mph or less sometimes.
Just wondering.