You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Someone on a Facebook post claimed that on Sunday morning their usual 15 min journey to the swimming pool took an hour and a half, due to the lower speed limit.
Which means either / or
– They have been driving everywhere at 40mph in a 30mph zone.
– That they are driving 15-2o miles to get to a swimming pool – completely on residential streets and busy lanes?I am struggling to think of a city in Wales that is over 15 miles in diameter….?
Or they were in Swansea and failed to take into account the long announced road closure on the seafront for the 10k (and roadworks elsewhere...)
do not agree public transport is the same as an autonomous vehicle. No way it will ever replace a good chunk of peoples journeys even with massive investment. for commuting or getting into a city I can see it replacing the car especially for solo journeys For a good chunk of other journeys nope.
and that vid, that black bmw1 series looked suspiciously like he might be doing faster than 20 and had to hit his brakes to not rear end the van, that type of driving is all down my road all the time at the moment.
@molgrips - that looks perfectly normal, maybe even slightly better as everyone's moving freely. Pity you turned the comments off, would have been fun to watch people explode 😁
Probably was flowing better than normal. Look how evenly spaced everyone is, apart from black BMW. To be fair it's easy to forget when accelerating - I found myself at 25mph a few times even in our local streets yesterday and had to check myself.
roll on automated vehicles where choice on speed is taken away from people”
People keep saying this, and even if it wasn't straight out of The Jetsons if fills me with dread.
I have a one-year old Seat, the "infotainment" head unit keeps crashing and getting stuck in a boot loop. It's done it intermittently since new. The only way to reset it (man, I miss "off" switches) is to stop the car, get out, lock it up, wait like 30 seconds for everything to actually shut down and then get back in and start over.
Now cross out "infotainment system" and write "self-drive system." I for one don't want a Blue Screen Of Death in the third lane of the M6.
There are quite a few places where villages have had bypass roads built, with the connecting roads that are often long and with no pavement as nobody's walking that way. They're usually an extension of the village's 30mph zone as presumably that was easier to do than having a bit of 40/50 between a 30 and a 60. Now they're 20, it's a bit annoying.
Also where 30s have been extended out of the villages to slow down traffic earlier (good!), now these are 20. It would be better if the extension bits were 30 or 40. Especially in the direction leaving the village, but I don't think we can have different speed limits on each side of the road.
Generally going down pretty badly in rural Wales with people on the ground (rather than social media) I'd say.
Now cross out “infotainment system” and write “self-drive system.” I for one don’t want a Blue Screen Of Death in the third lane of the M6.
You should know enough about IT to know that's no more likely than your engine ECU suddenly flooring the throttle. Yes, it happened in a few cases with Toyotas, but the fact it made the news and your infotainment going wrong did not should demonstrate that there are different standards applied to safety critical systems.
There are concerns - personally, I think it will be a long time before such systems are ready for UK roads - but they won't be rolled out until they are. Not least because these things will be held to a much higher standard than human drivers because people will be nervous of them. I just went on a bike ride and as I was coming home someone pulled up to a roundabout in the right most lane of three, as I was in the middle one. I went straight on, they went LEFT. It was only because I hung back a bit to see where they'd go that I wasn't knocked off. So given the stupid dangerous things that human drivers do I think that self driving cars should be able to do better.
Generally going down pretty badly in rural Wales with people on the ground (rather than social media) I’d say.
If you have a problem with a certain bit of road, then talk to your council. The WG didn't say all roads MUST be 20. It's just the default.
I'm aware of that option. It takes time and effort, so given it involves the council then that's pretty bad odds that anything will get done. Much less when it means someone has to put their neck on the line to sign off an increase, when it's just easier and safer (for their arses) to just say no. The gov will have known how unfeasible fixing these problems will be, so they didn't do it beforehand, just slap it everywhere and let other people sort it out over the next 10 years if at all.
There are quite a few places where villages have had bypass roads built, with the connecting roads that are often long and with no pavement as nobody’s walking that way. They’re usually an extension of the village’s 30mph zone as presumably that was easier to do than having a bit of 40/50 between a 30 and a 60. Now they’re 20, it’s a bit annoying.
That's the exact situation where you contact the council and they have the power to change where the 20 limit starts, been working well in Cardiff during the trial period for making areas 20 as well as upping bits to 30. Was driving through the whole of Mid Wales and some of North Wales last week and the signs were already changed, didn't come across anything that was obviously wrong. Saw a lot of posters for protests etc but they were all to do with new windfarms and pylons, nothing at all about the new 20 limit. I'd say that in a lot of rural Wales the traffic doesn't actually go much faster than 20 in the areas where the 20 limit will apply anyway!
Generally going down pretty badly in rural Wales with people on the ground (rather than social media) I’d say.
Again haven't heard much moaning about it when I was in a pub in Dolgellau last week or around Crickhowell where my parents live, probably down to both areas being used to a slower pace of life in general. The moaning in the city is definitely greater!
I would expect a lot of councils to get together and rubber stamp a load of sensible improvements. After all, they're motorists too, and it's in their interests to sort out any daft local situations that this is bound to throw up. Especially Labour run ones.
Re rural Wales - tbh the proliferation of 50 limits on open roads is more annoying, but hey ho. It's for the greater good. And no I don't break them.
WTF! Rampant generalisation and agreement with law-breaking from Daveylad.
The usual leftists looking forward to being governed harder, as expected.
Hopefully there will be some local bladerunner types as per London ulez who will destroy any enforcement cameras.
I hope they throw the book at them for criminal damage. We wouldn’t need fixed cameras if only people wouldn’t chance breaking the law - speed, emissions and driving without a license or VED. Driving is a privilege not a right.
In Edinburgh there has been a lot of 20 mph limits for a while. I would say average speeds have dropped and thoughtless overtakes when I am on my bike are less common.
there is literally no downside to 20mph limits - done properly traffic flows actually increase
This will be quickly another Seatbelts / Drink Driving / Unleaded Petrol / Smoking Ban / Plastic Bags / etc. and will have fizzled out in days not years as those arguing against it sound increasingly detached from people's actual experience. Already those frothing off about it have to pretend they've misunderstood what has been introduced or deny the democratic elements of this so they can call it undemocratic, or quote made-up science or tenuous whatiffery to suggest it might not achieve it's ends.
After all, they’re motorists too, and it’s in their interests to sort out any daft local situations that this is bound to throw up. Especially Labour run ones.
This is true, and the pragmatic answer is to engage thoughtfully with councils.
Unfortunately the opposition to this is based on nothing short of a fundamental belief that there should be no 20mph zones and dominated by extreme views and false claims.
As much as I think autonomous vehicles are an answer I actually cant see it ever happening in this country.
I mean a prime use case is the underground / trains and thats just not happening due to people / unions resisting it.
The road has way more variables and situations so the tech needs to be outstanding. That said I really don't think its far off.
Rollout, if you can get acceptance, would be an interesting challenge - its not like the 20 zones, you can't just restrict the cars to specific areas. I can't see how it could work
As some one said above I think it will be accepted as people get over themselves. There will still be large amounts of speeding, as there was when the limits were 30, but instead it'll be 30ish rather than 40ish
I mean a prime use case is the underground / trains and thats just not happening due to people / unions resisting it.
None of the rail or underground network was built with the idea of autonomous running. There's a lot of automation built in (same as with aircraft) but make no mistake about it, it needs a person there to manage it all. It would cost hundreds of billions to convert the rail to full autonomous for a very limited (arguably zero) benefit.
This from a Government that already can't pay train drivers properly, can't upgrade the rail to full electric and can't build a new railway line.
Even the DLR, which was built from scratch to enable at least partly autonomous running still needs an "assistant" on board able to take over if required. The one system that is autonomous is the small airport monorail shuttles such as Gatwick but that's tiny and has no other interactions with anything.
Full autonomous is just a distraction - everyone goes on about "oh soon we won't need speed limits/cameras etc cos everything will be fully autonomous" and "oh well we can keep building new roads cos soon everything will be electric so no more pollution" and both those arguments are a) bollocks and b) a complete distraction from what is actually needed.
I live in Manchester and the problems with 20mph zones are that it is not clear what is a 20 and what is a 30. People don't obey them because there is no enforcement. There are some anomolies in speed limits like a short section of Wilbraham road which has a 40 limit where all the surrounding roads are 20 or 30 zones.
The basic problem is that a significant number of car drivers only obey speed limits if they think they will get caught and a minority think the roads are their personal race track.
Maybe it's time for cars to have a black box which record driver behaviour?
Fully autonomous requires a special environment where no erratic variables are present to function safely. The amount of money required just for motorways and major trunk roads would probably allow HS2-10 to be built with change. (TBC I have no idea where HS 3 to 10 will go).
On the plus side we would get all the segregated cycling facilities required to make autonomous cars redundant. Which is nice.
Well I'm for every car being mandated a black box then, and fines being auto pinged out for naughty drivers. That is relatively easy to implement. What will the excuses be this time? Big brother watching I imagine
I'd prefer to take the choice away completely, as I think computers will be much safer than your average human, its not *just* about speed at the end of the day. You could still drive dangerously at 20.
Rural Wales dweller here. I support the move to 20 and not heard much local grumbling about the actual principle but more to do with the implementation and signage. I think the communication of the 'why' has been poor and should be improved. On a parochial note the big accidents here are usually involving motorcycles and dangerous overtaking. The problem is that performance car and sports motorcyclists often see wales as some sort of playground, and imitation racetrack.
Fully autonomous would be a godsend for busy parents. No time to take the baby to nan 30miles away who is babysitting today..no probs just put them in the robot car.
a complete distraction from what is actually needed.
Everyone should play Sim City 4. As the cities get bigger, traffic always grinds to a halt, people start complaining about quality of life and pollution. You can either bulldoze large areas of your city to put in urban highways which just increase traffic and pollution and push the problem onto smaller connecting roads or you can spend crippling amounts of money on public transport which turns out to be really hard to plan and get people to use.
Quite accurate really 🙂
<p style="text-align: left;">Drove to Llangefni from Cardiff yesterday, A470 most the way.</p>
Dim probs, one or 2 short stretches of 20mph but I think I managed to negotiate them without crashing the entire Welsh economy
Take that TC and RT
Big brother watching
If people weren't such ****s, Big Brother wouldn't need to watch, it could trust them to get on with things.
My dad swore him and mum aren't going to Porthmadog anymore (being going every year for the last 40+ years) due to the 20mph limits.
They also haven't learnt a word of Welsh the whole time and are DM readers 🤷♂️
My dad swore him and mum aren’t going to Porthmadog anymore (being going every year for the last 40+ years) due to the 20mph limits.
Wouldn't that be motorway most of the way for you?
Some politicians have been trying hard to implant the idea that all roads are now 20mph in Wales
it is not clear what is a 20 and what is a 30
Areas that have 20mph limits are clear to me. The signs give it away.
Areas that have 30mph limits, and those that appear on the border of leaving a 20mph limit zone, are less obvious. Traditional lack of repeater signs and signs obscured by shrubbery and trees make it tricky. I’ve had quite a few folks come up to the bumper, weave, beep, and flash when neither I nor the car have spotted the 30mph sign and are still enjoying the calm of 20mph. Whatever.
perhaps Andy B could repurpose the congestion zone signs to institute a ‘unless it says different the speed limit here is 20mph’?
Many drivers I see from my study seem to go a bit slower than in the past in the 20mph zone outside. Not sure many are at 20mph or below. There are some who continue to go way faster.
Areas that have 20mph limits are clear to me. The signs give it away.
Hmm, not sure - there are 20 signs from before the change, here and there - but now the default is 20mph where there are no signs (but lampposts). That means that the signs are not giving it away, in the case of 20s.
Since the introduction of widespread 20 limits in Bristol I tend to do 20 in most urban areas anyway. Its so much better for all road users (apart from the angry Daily Mail readers apparently) that it makes sense to me. No need to worry about whether it is a 30 or a 20, just do 20. I appreciate there may be anomalous stretches of road around but they can be fixed or lived with.
I would expect a lot of councils to get together and rubber stamp a load of sensible improvements.
I admire your optimism. They could have done that ready for the legislation.
Do where does the motorist stand where signs still say 30 because they haven’t all been changed yet if they are doing 25 having driven in from England. I don’t suppose there are signs on the border informing people of the new law
I drove out of Swansea on Sunday towards the Gower. Getting out of Swansea is very up and down and I encountered a fit and fast roadie almost immediately. The signage wasn't clear so I kept at 20 and the traffic was light. On the ups I overtook the cyclist and on the downs / flats he undertook me, this happened 4 or 5 times and both of us had bemused looks on our faces - I would have really liked to know what he was thinking but I expect he thought I was hindering him rather than helping. There are a lot of road cyclist who can comfortably ride at 20, and possibly don't have the speed metric on the main screen of their computers so are unaware of their true speed, I wonder if they are prepared to slow down too.
Do where does the motorist stand where signs still say 30 because they haven’t all been changed yet
Where d'you think?
The law isn't that every urban road is 20mph. It says that the DEFAULT limit is 20, which means it can be more than 20. If it is more than 20, it's signposted as such. So if there's a 30 sign, it's 30. If there's no sign at all (with streetlights), it's 20 - this is the only change.
on the downs / flats he undertook me,
That was very stupid on his part - don't undertake cars, ever - you can filter alongside stationary or crawling cars, but that's it.
Cyclists might want to do more than 20 but tough. Same as for drivers. Maybe he doesn't know how fast he's going, whatever, but don't undertake cars.
I live in Manchester...
I think this is your main problem, not the signage. I know it's a bit of a generalisation but I think Manchester has some of they most idiot drivers in the country!
The law isn’t that every urban road is 20mph. It says that the DEFAULT limit is 20, which means it can be more than 20. If it is more than 20, it’s signposted as such. So if there’s a 30 sign, it’s 30. If there’s no sign at all (with streetlights), it’s 20 – this is the only change
so every 30 sign that hasn’t been changed is still a 30 then. That will be the vast majority. And how are people meant to know this? If you drive into Germany from France there are signs informing you of the speed limits. Same at Dover when arriving in the U.K. so how does that work with this. 90% of the time you have no idea if you are even in wales for the first 30 miles. Given how unclear the border is on the road then how do you know your under a different jurisdiction unless your on the M4
so every 30 sign that hasn’t been changed is still a 30 then. That will be the vast majority. And how are people meant to know this?
You know the speed limit is 30 because of the sign saying 30. What am I missing here?
so every 30 sign that hasn’t been changed is still a 30 then. That will be the vast majority. And how are people meant to know this? If you drive into Germany from France there are signs informing you of the speed limits. Same at Dover when arriving in the U.K. so how does that work with this. 90% of the time you have no idea if you are even in wales for the first 30 miles. Given how unclear the border is on the road then how do you know your under a different jurisdiction unless your on the M4
How did you know it was 30 before?
The difference is that before if the limit was 20, or 40 (or 50, 60, 70) then there would be repeater signs every so often. No repeaters, then it was 30 or 60. Now it's the opposite, if a hypothetical person pulls out of their hypothetical driveway in a built up area then it's 20 unless they see signs saying otherwise.
It's really not that hard to get your head around.
If you're crossing the border 30miles from the next street sign, then quite clearly you're not in a built up area and the limit isn't 20 😂
It's even simpler:
If there are no signs, but you're in town (with streetlights) it used to be 30, now it's 20.
Admittedly, people coming into Wales may not know that. There should be signs at the border, for sure.
The power mad and pi$$ed on their own importance Welsh Government strikes again. I remember when they stopped supermarkets selling non-essential goods. Just off the scale lunatic dictator stuff.
This is just another one to add to the list of things they've imposed on people against the will of the nation with no evidence. Just like the 50mph debacle.
To make it worse they've royally messed it up and where I live confusion reigns and plenty of roads here that you have no clue if its 20 or 3omph. I did read it depends on the distance between the streetlights so I must remember to take my measuring wheel with me next time I go out in the car.
I think that to support the people who work on the speed awareness courses in Wales, who are about to become inundated, we should bang pots and pans on our doorsteps once a week, because we all know how highly beneficial and worthwhile that is, don't we.
There should be signs at the border, for sure.
"Here be 20mph dragons"
Just like the 50mph debacle
The 50mph sections with average speed cameras? They are wonderful. So much more relaxing driving through Wales without pricks trying to overtake every few seconds.
As much as I think autonomous vehicles are an answer I actually cant see it ever happening in this country.
...
The road has way more variables and situations so the tech needs to be outstanding.
"In this country" is particularly relevant I think. The UK - like many countries I suppose - has a fairly unique road system. Any autonomous vehicles would have to be specifically designed for the idiosyncrasies of our roads. That's not going to happen, we're not that important a market.
Random example. My Seat has a reversing camera. When you put it in reverse it drops an overlay down the side, covering like a quarter of the view. On the left hand side of the screen. It's clearly been designed for a left-hand drive car where I'm sure it's great, but on a RHD it covers up almost all of the kerbside where you're trying to park. Now imagine that foresight on a self-driving car built in Spain.
None of the rail or underground network was built with the idea of autonomous running.
A lot of our roads weren't even built for cars.
. Given how unclear the border is on the road
What, you mean apart from the effing big sign saying "Welcome to Wales"? (In Welsh too)
I did read it depends on the distance between the streetlights so I must remember to take my measuring wheel with me next time I go out in the car
Which is exactly the same rule that defines a 30 zone in the rest of the UK. Rule 124 of the highway code.
Petition against it
In the interest of balance, is there a petition to retain it? I'd rather sign that.
This is just another one to add to the list of things they’ve imposed on people against the will of the nation with no evidence.
There's plenty of evidence. You ignoring it does not mean it's not there.
I did read it depends on the distance between the streetlights so I must remember to take my measuring wheel with me next time I go out in the car.
Not really, it's when the distance is less than 200 yards. Do you know what 200 yards looks like? Streetlights are always much closer than that in urban areas.
So - streelights, no sign, 20. That's it. Remember it.
the people who work on the speed awareness courses in Wales, who are about to become inundated
Great. They can spell it out for those people who are struggling, and also explain the evidence you're so reluctant to look for at the same time
Don't forget all the signs suddenly having two languages on them, sometimes painted in the road too.
This is just another one to add to the list of things they’ve imposed on people against the will of the nation with no evidence. Just like the 50mph debacle.
Both were in their manifestos that they were voted in with, democracy at work. The non-essential goods stuff during the first lockdown was coped from Westminster who changed their mind at the last second for England, not the fault of the WAG.
I think that to support the people who work on the speed awareness courses in Wales, who are about to become inundated, we should bang pots and pans on our doorsteps once a week, because we all know how highly beneficial and worthwhile that is, don’t we.
The police won't be issuing fines for a fair few months while the changes settle in so no Speed Awareness course will be offered for minor indiscretions. If you go well above the new 20, like enough to be speeding in a 30, then a fine and point will be forthcoming but that's no different to before.
For someone who seems so wound up by all of this and enough to post a barely coherent rant on a pokey little cycling forum you really haven't done your research and should step away and relax.
Now imagine that foresight on a self-driving car built in Spain.
Again, safety critical software would not be designed and built in the same way.
I have a one-year old Seat, the “infotainment” head unit keeps crashing and getting stuck in a boot loop. It’s done it intermittently since new. The only way to reset it (man, I miss “off” switches) is to stop the car, get out, lock it up, wait like 30 seconds for everything to actually shut down and then get back in and start over.
1 year old seat = 10 year old infotainment system (hardware/OS) trying to keep up with 5 year old customer demands and a 2 year old UI design (or maybe the demands of a 5 year old customer, i'm never sure).
Now cross out “infotainment system” and write “self-drive system.” I for one don’t want a Blue Screen Of Death in the third lane of the M6.
You *do* know that we don't just write a new label when converting a bought in infotainment system into a dedicated autonomous driving contoller (one reason for the increases in costs of high end graphics cards is that a handful of big players in the autonomous drive space cornered the market for the chips)?
I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if certain players were, but none of those taking it seriously do.
jhinwxm - did you get stopped and told off by the policeman for driving too fast to work this morning?
Any autonomous vehicles would have to be specifically designed for the idiosyncrasies of our roads.
Thread drift, but the example you gave was around RHD/LHD. The market for LHD may be smaller but includes Australia and S Africa, so it's not negligible and certainly isn't unique to the UK. What other unique features do you think our road network has that would require special adaptation for an autonomous vehicle?
What other unique features do you think our road network has that would require special adaptation for an autonomous vehicle?
Catastrophic levels of entitlement and ****wittery.
What other unique features do you think our road network has
A huge single track road network for a start. These don't exist in many places.
I drove out of Swansea on Sunday towards the Gower. Getting out of Swansea is very up and down and I encountered a fit and fast roadie almost immediately. The signage wasn’t clear so I kept at 20 and the traffic was light. On the ups I overtook the cyclist and on the downs / flats he undertook me, this happened 4 or 5 times and both of us had bemused looks on our faces – I would have really liked to know what he was thinking but I expect he thought I was hindering him rather than helping. There are a lot of road cyclist who can comfortably ride at 20, and possibly don’t have the speed metric on the main screen of their computers so are unaware of their true speed, I wonder if they are prepared to slow down too.
That was very stupid on his part – don’t undertake cars, ever – you can filter alongside stationary or crawling cars, but that’s it.
Tbf to the poster, I'm guessing they drove out through the Uplands, Killay, etc, which has plenty of traffic lights, and enough queues of stationary cars to make passing on a bike easy, especially while the 10k was blocking the seafront. That's nothing to do with lowering speed limits, that's just that road. I'd expect to be pacing traffic for several miles, even on my gravel bike. (Although would probably choose a quieter road...)
jhinwxm – did you get stopped and told off by the policeman for driving too fast to work this morning?
No. I have a clean driving license. Thank you for your concern though.
I'm confident everything will work out fine though, as I'm upgrading the cooking pot i'm going to hit with a wooden spoon later to a Le Creuset casserole dish. You wanna see this beauty, pure craftsmanship.
I was previously using a Dunelm Mill own brand pan which has seen better days, which clearly doesn't cut it. Those soothing Le Creuset tones WILL make everything ok, which is pretty damn cool if you ask me.
Can't wait for the 1st "Welsh drivers driving at 20mph" cause TraFiC ChAoS in <randomEnglishTown>" story
Not really, it’s when the distance is less than 200 yards. Do you know what 200 yards looks like? Streetlights are always much closer than that in urban areas.
So – streelights, no sign, 20. That’s it. Remember it.
Not quite. Second bit is true - streetlights, no sign = 20mph.
First bit about 200yds isn't true anymore. It was taken out of the highway code pre 2018 as I was caught out on that at a speed awareness course.
De law:
https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits
National speed limits
The following speed limits apply to all single and dual carriageways with street lights, unless there are signs showing otherwise:
30 miles per hour (48km/h) in England, Scotland or Northern Ireland
20 miles per hour (32km/h) in Wales
No. I have a clean driving license. Thank you for your concern though.
I’m confident everything will work out fine though, as I’m upgrading the cooking pot i’m going to hit with a wooden spoon later to a Le Creuset casserole dish. You wanna see this beauty, pure craftsmanship.
I was previously using a Dunelm Mill own brand pan which has seen better days, which clearly doesn’t cut it. Those soothing Le Creuset tones WILL make everything ok, which is pretty damn cool if you ask me.
Did anyone else read this with the voice of John Cleese ranting
First bit about 200yds isn’t true anymore. It was taken out of the highway code pre 2018 as I was caught out on that at a speed awareness course.
Hmm, that is what I was told on the course as well, but then a lot of official communication seems to have the 200 yards bit in it so I thought that was part of the Welsh legislation.
200 yards is ages and further apar than streetlights ever are, except maybe the really tall ones on motorway junctions and things. But in such situations the speed limit is obviously not 20.
A huge single track road network for a start. These don’t exist in many places.
And what about them will stop an autonomous car from working? Being able to detect an oncoming vehicle and decide whether to proceed or find somewhere to pull in and allow it to pass will be the same issue as driving on normal roads lined with parked vehicles.
Obviously you currently get the games of brinkmanship where two drivers want the other one to pull over, or where someone is spectacularly incapable of reversing into a gap, but I can't see anyone programming that behaviour into an autonomous vehicle.
Hmm, that is what I was told on the course as well, but then a lot of official communication seems to have the 200 yards bit in it so I thought that was part of the Welsh legislation.
They probably got it wrong. The instructor on my course was adamant her answer was right even if it required the vehicle to defy the laws of physics. She couldn’t get her head round the idea that a decelerating vehicle has a negative force
She couldn’t get her head round the idea that a decelerating vehicle has a negative force
Eh?
I used to drive a lot of narrow roads in Wales. Getting past other vehicles meant making a judgement about whether the ground was firm enough to support a vehicle, grippy enough to be able to move away again and devoid of objects that would damage the tyres/vehicle. Good luck developing software for that.
She couldn’t get her head round the idea that a decelerating vehicle has a negative force
Heh, this has just doubled the page count of the thread.
Eh?
Glad that was not just me!
Any autonomous vehicles would have to be specifically designed for the idiosyncrasies of our roads. That’s not going to happen, we’re not that important a market.
You just load a different set of training data. Teslas have been sending interesting video clips of edge cases back to HQ for training their neural networks for years.
Only problem is that in situations where humans routinely break the law, the car will too but in general stuff is universal (eg penalising a model for, say, close passing a cyclist will work just as well here as anywhere else).
Getting past other vehicles meant making a judgement about whether the ground was firm enough to support a vehicle, grippy enough to be able to move away again and devoid of objects that would damage the tyres/vehicle.
So pretty similar to what Nasa's Perseverance rover has been doing on Mars? Of course it's going a lot slower but the consequences of getting stuck are pretty severe. Also the instruments it uses probably wouldn't make an affordable vehicle but it shows that the challenge of working out if it's safe to put a wheel somewhere is solvable.
I think there are plenty of issues to overcome before we get autonomous vehicles operating throughout the UK, but "special UK roads" isn't a showstopper.
Good luck developing software for that.
That's what I was talking about, but it'd be the easiest part of the whole problem to ringfence those roads. The santav already knows what they're like, for the most part. Just route around them as they do now or if you have no choice put up a warning telling the driver they'll have to drive. And if they don't take over a few miles before the turning, pull over.
On the other hand, at least a self driving car would know how to reverse properly. And it in fairness it would probably do a better job of pulling in than 50% of the drivers I see trying to do it. It knows where the edges of the car are. And for that matter, it wouldn't balk at reversing for a significant distance looking for a decent pull in. So yeah, crack on, actually.
Oh my, the anti 20mph in Wales Facebook pages are absolutely rabid.
Japan is RHD as well. Not exactly a small player or market in the auto industry.
Random example. My Seat has a reversing camera. When you put it in reverse it drops an overlay down the side, covering like a quarter of the view. On the left hand side of the screen. It’s clearly been designed for a left-hand drive car where I’m sure it’s great, but on a RHD it covers up almost all of the kerbside where you’re trying to park. Now imagine that foresight on a self-driving car built in Spain.
@cougar of anyone here I'm surprised you would come in at this angle. That's not inability, it's bad implementation of the UI. Same for any other batshit things your Seat does, it's not representative. My 2016 Focus sometimes gets really upset about cars in front turning and will throw up a crash warning but otherwise works fine. And, get this, they can parallel park in the UK. Your complaint is essentially that mobile browsing will never work because you use the browser on a Nintendo DS.
This thread is just full of British exceptionalism. Like single track or unpaved roads don't exist anywhere else in the world. 🙄
Like single track or unpaved roads don’t exist anywhere else in the world
No, most people on here are quite well travelled and have seen single track roads in various places. Point is that self driving cars will struggle in any country with such roads, the UK is just one example. But notably the country where most of this development is taking place and what could be it's biggest market does not have this type of road.
But notably the country where most of this development is taking place and what could be it’s biggest market does not have this type of road.
Where's that then?
Interesting to note there’s as many people signed the anti 20mph petition as there are people in Cardiff according to Wales online! I guess the most interesting thing to take from that then is that there’s a very high proportion of the Welsh population that prefer to drive everywhere rather than walk anywhere! I can believe that many people that walk their kids to school anywhere, walk to work or cycle a lot would petition against the 20 mph limit.
We need more people out of their cars cycling and walking for not just environmental reasons but in wales particularly, for health reasons.
Are there measures in place to ensure all petition signers actually live in Wales?
Where’s that then?
USA innit