20mph in Wales.....

If you ride a bike leave a 2m gap for the cars!

You'll be overtaking the cars so it won't be an issue!

Cars cannot safely overtake a bike and move on

Well the driver should wait until they can.

Just been reading some of the cost's,  they expect to industry and trade etc. Wow

residential roads , but not through roads or more mainstream roads .

They aren't changing all urban roads to 20mph.

They are changing the DEFAULT speed limit, that applies when there are no signs, to 20mph.

Main routes will still be 30mph.

Just been reading some of the cost’s,  they expect to industry and trade etc. Wow

How will this cost more?  Most of the roads that will be 20 are already slow roads with parked cars and junctions and so on. It's going to make bugger all difference except improving safety in some spots.

I ride down in Wales most weekends, and I welcome it, but it's going to be tricky on the road bike. I suspect I'll be held up a lot so I'll be using the less busy roads, as like folk have said, car' won't be passing and clearing off.

We have 20mph limits in every built up area here in the Scottish Borders. Its ace. Traffic moves out of junctions more easily, additional time on journeys can be measured in seconds, not minutes. Sure, most people drive at 25mph but still significantly slower than under the old limits. 30mph now feels super fast in a a town.

Two observations:

1. Lots of Europe has had 30kmph (18mph) speed limits  in built up areas for ever, without any downside. This immediately negates any of the frankly ridiculous arguments you will see against it
2. The people who object most strongly tend to be Tories / Brexiteers / Fair Fuel / Daily Mail types. In my view, if it annoys them, then it is generally good for the rest of society.

Objections here included engines not liking it (between second and third gear, damage to buildings from lorry's rumbling more, driver getting bored and therefore easily distracted and more likely to crash, higher miles per gallon, more potholes, greater risk to cyclists, not being able to see kids in the evening due to be so late home from driving slower.  It is quite comical the utter tosh people were coming out with.

I've looked at Prestatyn, and there are only a couple of exemptions where the speed will be kept to 30 mph (no houses and just after a 50 zone), the rest of the 30 zones will be 20.

I've ridden in lots of 20 limits. It's not bad at all, quite a lot nicer in fact. Sure, I could be riding at over 20mph myself, but on the kind of roads that will be 20 it's often not a problem.  And should I be bombing down hills at 35mph in a 20 limit anyway?  Limits do apply to cyclists.

I ride a lot in town, I am in favour of it due to experience.

Just been reading some of the cost’s,  they expect to industry and trade etc. Wow

I haven't seen these but do they come from self serving trade bodies. Likely to be utter tosh.

I live, drive and cycle in an area where (almost) every 30mph limit was dropped to 20mph during Covid. It is a much nicer place to be.

Busy motorways move faster when you lower the variable speed limit. Same can be said in towns. Easier to pull out of junctions, get around roundabouts etc.

From roadwise.co.uk

If you hit a pedestrian they have a much greater chance of surviving if your speed is lower.

If you hit a pedestrian:

at 40 mph there is a 90 percent chance they will be killed.
at 35 mph there is a 50 percent chance they will be killed.
at 30 mph there is a 20 percent chance they will be killed.
at 20 mph there is a 2.5 percent chance they will be killed.

End of argument, Shirley?

Lots of Europe has had 30kmph (18mph) speed limits  in built up areas for ever,

Yes indeed. Bring it on.

It's the way the press are reporting it then.

In a 30 people tend to do 35 I suppose, so 25 in a 20 is safer

Be interesting to see if it goes nationwide.

The sooner it comes to England as well, the better.

Cars cannot safely overtake a bike and move on

Why would you overtake another vehicle if it is doing the speed limit?

my Ggeebeebies watching parents had a neighbour knocked down this week

this is the message from my mum

Latest update from the brother of the woman(Elaine) who was knocked down. A delivery driver was leaving a house 5 doors up from us when a BMW going about 70 mph came up Jeansway and skidded left to avoid the delivery car hit a wall and car and knocked Elaine down. She is in Addenbrooks with a bleed on the brain, broken hope, pelvis leg, punctured lung etc. The car had thousands of pounds and drugs in it! We need speed bumps here!

when i pointed out that speed bumps & a 20 limit would make it a LTN my dad actually agreed it was a good thing , which he'd previously ranted against

Be good if it goes nation wide.  Our caravan is off a road that serves 3 caravan sites (and one very big one) and folk don't even stick to 30, and the pavement is very narrow in places, and heavily used by pedestrians - 20 mph will be bliss on here.

As someone who has 20mph zones all around home and our county, 20mph is a good thing.

The main roads are still 30mph, unless there is a school or similar other reason to be slow.

Vehicles are slower - maybe not 20mph, but perhaps early or mid 20's, instead of early or mid 30's....

It is quieter. Traffic flows well. I have fewer dodgy overtakes. Kids can cross roads more safely etc etc.

This is being rolled out in Scotland, and we have had it for what 2-3 years now?

The sooner it comes to England as well, the better

Agreed, although it's been in parts of England for longer; Wales is catching up in someways. Cardiff has followed Bristol, which has been 20mph for almost a decade.

Positive story here. BBc

A driver has said a pilot 20mph zone meant he did not hit a 12-year-old boy after he failed to spot him running across a road.

It’s the way the press are reporting it then.

Yep. Right wing press hate it because they hate being told what to do. Left wing press love it because peace, calm, flowers and love.  Or, less cynically, lefties will accept rules for the common good.

If you hit a pedestrian:

at 40 mph there is a 90 percent chance they will be killed.
at 35 mph there is a 50 percent chance they will be killed.
at 30 mph there is a 20 percent chance they will be killed.
at 20 mph there is a 2.5 percent chance they will be killed.

End of argument, Shirley?

If you don’t hit the pedestrian in the first place there will be zero percent chance of them being killed at any any speed. But I guess that comes under of the heading of no money to be made and is harder to do

If you don’t hit the pedestrian in the first place

Right.  But people do hit pedestrians.

And cyclists

Right.  But people do hit pedestrians.

Then fix that problem. It’s not hard, just expensive. More pedestrian crossing, reused on street parking are 2 relatively cheap solutions. In new build areas they would part of the cost of building the development and you could mandate adequate off street parking as part of the planning process

Just reread it , it does say residential roads only!  Its the headline and first paragraph that was the click bait!

It did seem drastic!

Then fix that problem. It’s not hard, just expensive. More pedestrian crossing, reused on street parking are 2 relatively cheap solutions

Rubbish. How is that going to stop someone walking across the road not looking or listening?  As for more pedestrian crossings?  There's one by our local supermarket on a pretty busy bit of urban road, with a crossing 5m down the hill.  The crossing is really responsive and it will nearly always stop the traffic immediately without waiting.  But people still cross the road directly across the entrance to get to the bus stop to avoid walking 10m.  They will do it with bags of shopping, and kids in tow, and they will half-cross it and stand on the white line between two rows of busy traffic waiting to cross the rest. So ped crossings aren't the answer.

You'll never stop pedestrians being hit, although we should try to limit that.  But you can limit the damage when they are.

I live in an English village with a Welsh name. Can we change our speed limit to 20mph instead of 30 mph?

I think it should be adopted every where.

20mph is helping to fix the problem as you have a better chance of stopping in time. It’s safer all round if the vehicles are moving slower. People don’t always use pedestrians crossings and some don’t look properly before crossing. That’s just normal human behaviour so keeping the traffic at a slower speed will reduce RTAs.

I’ve looked at Prestatyn, and there are only a couple of exemptions where the speed will be kept to 30 mph (no houses and just after a 50 zone), the rest of the 30 zones will be 20.

Prestatyn is, what, 2 miles wide in any direction?  You'd barely notice Prestatyn even walking!

A driver has said a pilot 20mph zone meant he did not hit a 12-year-old boy after he failed to spot him running across a road.

Really, and the admitted that in public. So this is used as a reason to slow down traffic rather than as why didnt either the driver or the pedestrian see each other sooner. Bad road design, poor observation from both parties, sight line obstructions? Who knows but if we are serious about road safety these are the real issues to resolve not just go slower so it hurts less.

why didnt either the driver or the pedestrian see each other sooner.

Because no-one is perfect, not 12 year old kids and not drivers.  Trying to rely on perfect behaviour from humans at all times is very foolish indeed and very much not a solution to anything.

 if we are serious about road safety these are the real issues to resolve not just go slower so it hurts less.

if we are serious about road safety these are the real issues to resolve AND go slower so it hurts less.

I stumbled on  http://www.safespeed.org.uk/killspeed.html  Whilst looking for fatality/speed figures. I didn't realise what sort of page it was at first. Apparently it's mainly the pedestrians fault - "According to various reports it isn't usually drivers causing accidents involving pedestrians. For example the West Midlands Accident Review (click here) has it that in 61% of cases the pedestrian simply "stepped, walked or ran from the foot path".

So it's OK to kill them?

Their 4 cases are wonderful too. Case 4 - An advanced or experienced driver approaches the danger area. The driver recognizes the inherent danger of the hidden area (from which the pedestrian in our examples emerges), and reduces speed.

Hey check out the brain on Brad!

There’s one by our local supermarket on a pretty busy bit of urban road, with a crossing 5m down the hill.  The crossing is really responsive and it will nearly always stop the traffic immediately without waiting.  But people still cross the road directly across the entrance to get to the bus stop to avoid walking 10m.  They will do it with bags of shopping, and kids in tow, and they will half-cross it and stand on the white line between two rows of busy traffic waiting to cross the rest. So ped crossings aren’t the answer.

That suggests that someone put the crossing in the wrong place then, if you want to encourage people to use the crossing it has to be the easy option.

I love it. I'm proud to live in Wales. most French towns and villages seem to be 30kph, Portsmouth and Hull started rolling out 20 for residential streets in the 90's, it really isn't anything new. And what crappy cars do the people have who claim you can't dive at 20 with everything exploding? Mine will be happy to set CC at 20 and trundle along, sometimes in 3-figures MPG. As a tight-wad I like that.

Then fix that problem. It’s not hard, just expensive. More pedestrian crossing, reused on street parking are 2 relatively cheap solutions. In new build areas they would part of the cost of building the development and you could mandate adequate off street parking as part of the planning process

Or you could introduce 20mph limits in towns and cities.

The stopping distance from 20mph is 12m. At that distance, a car braking from 30mph would still be going 24mph. That's why 20mph limits in areas where pedestrians and cars are likely to come into conflict are a good idea.

I quite enjoy driving on the 20 mph roads in Scotland, it takes a little bit of getting used to at first but it feels so much safer for the residents of these villages and residential areas. It is like the speed limited cars thread we had recently not everyone will obey the rules but when a few do they slow everyone else down and make the roads safer.

Limits do apply to cyclists.

Errrr, actually, they don't.

Just been reading some of the cost’s,  they expect to industry and trade etc. Wow

99% of those are absolute bollocks

I live in a 20mph zone with traffic calming measures, it's ace.

I've ridden through a few cities with 20mph everywhere or 20mph zones - even Paris is a hell of a lot better than it was. It only takes a few people to stick to the limit and everyone else has to.

In the EV car I don't care, press the limiter button on starting the car and it defaults to 20mph. Overtake a cyclist? Nah stay behind and protect them unless its really safe to overtake without exceeding 20mph.

I think electric bikes should have their assistance limit raised to 20mph, that way there would be no reason for a motorist to overtake them in a 20mph zone.

And of course, an obligation for smart cars incapable of exceeding the speed limit.

Ebikes and 20 mph, that's another debate. They can't currently pass me on my commuted up MTB as the cruising speed is 17-20 mph, not having 'cheats' catch me (this is in jest !)

The changes state all roads with 30's and with street lighting 200 yards or less apart, unless exempted. There are just 5 exemptions for Denbighshire from what I've looked at.

It's going to be a little confusing at first, but knowing the Welsh Police, safest just to drive at 20 on lit roads.

https://twitter.com/WillHayCardiff/status/1691121456355381248?t=RsBLwPxo-PZqleByXIwKUw&s=19

This was a pretty decent summary I thought.

I  have had  impatient motorists overtake in these zones , They cannot go faster due to the ambient speed and forget they are overtaking if a car comes the other way! Hence that at times it feels less safe.

It does seem to be the through traffic and not the local drivers. Not particularly "residential" roads either. Some confusion maybe?

I live in a residential area with a 20mph limit. People regularly come screaming up my hill at 40 or 50 because they've ducked off the main road to swerve the traffic and avoid the lights. This is with parked cars bumper to bumper on both sides and barely enough room for a speeding Range Rover to fit through the middle.

So yeah, great in theory but people still gonna people.

That suggests that someone put the crossing in the wrong place then, if you want to encourage people to use the crossing it has to be the easy option.

We have a crossing that is often avoided - because it is a few metres down the road away from a junction and bus stop. To put it somewhere more 'pleasing' and accessible to the pedestrians puts it across the junction, bus stop and nearer a corner...so making it less safe.

Or we could slow the cars down - as is the responsibility of driving.

There is good evidence that either a place is too small and quiet that 20mph adds a few seconds to a journey, or a place is big and congested enough with other vehicles that 20mph means the traffic flows better and with less pollution, less noise, fewer accident etc etc.

20mph also encourages more walking and cycling - both because folk feel safer and because more people realise that for a short urban journey a car is no faster than a bike. I used to tell my pupils in Sheffield that I rode as I was lazy - i could stay in bed an extra 15 mins and then overtake all the cars and school buses in the traffic jam...

Driving around French cities used to fill me with horror, even on a motorbike, now it's civilisation itself and doesn't seem to take any more time. I can't stand these meatheads who want to race to the traffic lights.

So yeah, great in theory but people still gonna people.

Agreed with that. But that is what police and camera enforcement is for.

Portsmouth was the first UK city to implement 20mph on all side roads (main roads staying at 30mph)

As far as i can tell its made little difference, people still speed, there are no camera vans/ speed cameras on side streets, the only way someone would get prosocuted for speeding is if they passed a police car at significant speed (how often do you see one on the side streets?) or if there was an serious accident

Just been reading some of the cost’s, they expect to industry and trade etc. Wow

Most of those alleged costs are all worst case scenarios accumulated over a 30-year period. It's only when you delve VERY deeply into them do you find this information. Actually if averaged out on a yearly basis, it's way under the savings made from not having to scrape as many dead people and wrecked cars off the roads.

One fatal incident on the roads costs about £1.2m now in terms of emergency services time and resources, road closures, highway repairs and that's just direct costs, it's before you start factoring in the economic loss of the deceased no longer working & paying tax, time off work for family members due to the bereavement and so on. Gets really complex if you want to calculate it properly which is why you know any simple paragraph saying "it's estimated that the costs will be....." are almost always bollocks.

the Twitter thread is the best summary and should just be the be all and end all.

It probably has made a difference to overall speeds and therefore improved road safety. People may not stick to the limit, but they may not stick to 30mph either so instead of 35mph they're doing 27mph or something.

Got to be a good thing. 30mph is completely arbitrary anyway.

Objections here included engines not liking it (between second and third gear, damage to buildings from lorry’s rumbling more, driver getting bored and therefore easily distracted and more likely to crash, higher miles per gallon, more potholes, greater risk to cyclists, not being able to see kids in the evening due to be so late home from driving slower.

Emboldened bit could have been from me, and was a genuine problem in my previous car. A fairly pathetic(~110hp), naturally aspirated 1.8 petrol from 2001, engine had been around since the mid 90's.

3rd was idle speed and was a real risk of stalling.

2nd put you in the (still fairly pathetic) power band meaning you'll be up to 25 in an instant with a tiny twitch of the foot, and conversly lifting off gave some fairly considerable engine braking.

That car is now over two decades old and other engines like it are pushing 3; so I imagine it is not a problem for many people now.

My current 2013 car will happily do 20. Just above idle in third.

Sure there are the people who won't comply but a growing number will. Within those who comply there are those happy to comply because they think it's a good idea, those that comply because it's law, those who do 25 rather than 35 paying lip service to the law and those who don't like the idea at all but still pay lip service. And a few roadhogs who couldn't give ****.

I've seen the limit in my part of town go from 60kmh (up to 1990) to 50kmh and now 30kmh. The change in behaviour has been pretty radical, most people have slowed down a lot.

There's a growing awareness that accident investigators will find out how fast you were going if you **** up. It's not so much fear of the police, it's a fear of ****ing up and getting caught. Hit and run still happens but there's so much CCTV and so many people have dash cams fewer people are getting away with it. A case made the news where the data from a Jaguar airbag proved the speed of impact and resulted in prosecution, add that to the experts with their tape measures, calculators and ananysis of damage and if you **** up speeding it''ll be hard to deny.

So between between positive attitude and fear limits do have an impact.

That car is now over two decades old and other engines like it are pushing 3; so I imagine it is not a problem for many people now.

Modern cars are geared for this kind of driving now. I've driven loads of different vehicles in road race convoy stuff - had a VW Golf a while ago that was spot on in 3rd gear at anything from about 20-35mph, it was near seamless.
Even the big Volvo XC60 I used recently was town-driving geared (plus that was automatic anyway so it just did it's own thing).

Admittedly, my old manual diesel does need some switching between 2nd and 3rd but that's not exactly difficult - anyone complaining about such an issue is too stupid or incompetent to be on the roads. Modern cars (especially automatics), it doesn't even come into the equation, it's just another bollocks complaint to try and justify driving faster.
Strangely, if you used that argument on bikes and said "oh I was just flowing down this hill at 30mph because it felt far smoother and was easier to control than 20", those exact same people would be complaining that you were hurtling recklessly, going far too fast and so on. They don't care about the practicalities of it at all, they're moaning because they just want to drive as fast as possible.

Round our way the difficulty would be getting tractors to stick to 20 mph whilst they use their mobile phones.

I watched a car review the other day, and I am sure Harry Metcalf said that from next year every new car has to audibly warn you if you are going too fast for the speed limit (that will be a pain in the arse!)

Having just been in Wales for a week, can I just ask if this is a sort of hypothetical thing for when you're not stuck behind a tractor?

We have a crossing that is often avoided – because it is a few metres down the road away from a junction and bus stop. To put it somewhere more ‘pleasing’ and accessible to the pedestrians puts it across the junction, bus stop and nearer a corner…so making it less safe

Not if it was a proper crossing. Many many countries have crossing on junctions, including the Uk that work just fine

I also live in the Scottish Borders, we've 20's across the county and while originally the council put in 'blanket' 20's they've since moved to a combination of 20's and 30's, depending on the road/junctions/pedestrians/schools etc.

Works will IMO, and certainly is keeping the speeds down especially of the 'drive at 40 everywhere' brigade.

As I've said to those saying on FB etc how difficult/dangerous it is to drive at 20 - give up your licence, you're not fit to drive.

I've noticed a big change in driving habits locally (Norway) since they literally doubled the fines for various bits of bad behaviour, so a bit of naughty undertaking/lane weaving as an example now might clean you out to the equivalent of ~£900 (yes 900).  After they caught a couple hundred people in a month things have changed a fair bit.

Went past a car on the way home one evening recently with a sad looking ex driver and a policeman removing his number plates for being caught no insurance....

Next stop is to introduce the law that if you're caught 'råkjoring' your car is removed from you and sold (no you don't get the money).  This is currently the case in Denmark as a local guy went to pick up a Lambo to take home and sell, went a lot too fast in Denmark, lost the car, got a driving ban, 20 days jail (suspended) and banned from Denmark for 4 years .  Given importing exotica was his business , he isn't real happy but c'est la vie.

The UK is soft for driving offences

Limits do apply to cyclists.

Nope.

Can't say I've noticed any difference in behaviour in Edinburgh after 20 was introduced.

there's no downside to these proposals, 20mph limits make the areas within them more pleasant and safer for everyone. they're not perfect but i'm glad i live in one.

but of course, it wouldn't be humanity/singletrackworld without the same old windbags piping up the usual nonsense drivel in response.

Having just been in Wales for a week, can I just ask if this is a sort of hypothetical thing for when you’re not stuck behind a tractor?

The tractors dont stick to their speed limits though of 24mph and they are always on their mobile phones.

doubled the fines for various bits of bad behaviour, so a bit of naughty undertaking/lane weaving as an example now might clean you out to the equivalent of ~£900 (yes 900)

But they should also be fining the person who sits in the middle lane (and re educating them) middle lane drivers worry me the most ! (or those that stick to 70mph or below)

Who knows but if we are serious about road safety these are the real issues to resolve not just go slower so it hurts less.

This place, **** me sometimes it just, well.......

Mods, please just ban me now, it will save time and stress, 5 days should do it!

I watched a car review the other day, and I am sure Harry Metcalf said that from next year every new car has to audibly warn you if you are going too fast for the speed limit (that will be a pain in the arse!)

Most modern cars already warn you somehow. The speed limit usually displays on the dash and starts flashing if you exceed it although you can (usually) adjust the margin at which it starts doing that.
The sheer number of annoying beeping noises in cars now is a distraction in itself. Seatbelt not fastened, door not closed, reversing, speeding, lane deviation, proximity warning...

I pulled into a layby to let an oncoming vehicle past recently and the Volvo went mental, beeping away that I was too close to the verge, had left the lane etc and then it went mental again as the oncoming vehicle squeezed past which triggered more proximity warnings. Was really distracting as I was trying to concentrate on positioning the car and all I had was this constant beeping and screaming.

We've had it in Bristol for quite a few years now and it's fantastic. Much nicer when walking and cycling. It's also better when driving, easier to pull out at junctions.  Yes adherence was low to start with but I'd say the majority stick to it or close to it.

Also no need to limit it to side streets. It is wanted on the mainer roads too. That's where you often gets shops and pedestrians, delivery trucks pulling in and out, cars parked in the cycle lane, etc. Just have a blanket limit and if you really are unable to drive at that speed then you shouldn't be driving.

If 20 is too much for 2nd gear, and too little for 3rd gear, just drive at less than 20 in 2nd. 20mph is the limit, not the target

Yes adherence was low to start with but I’d say the majority stick to it or close to it.

I'd say people still speed, but it's 25 rather than 35. There was the usual moaning then everyone just got on with it.

Just need cameras to stop people ignoring them.

When it's busy it only takes one person to stick to the limit to make everyone else do it.

The usual leftists looking forward to being governed harder, as expected.
Hopefully there will be some local bladerunner types as per London ulez who will destroy any enforcement cameras.

You’ll never stop pedestrians being hit, although we should try to limit that.  But you can limit the damage when they are.

This sums up beautifully the benefits of 20 limit.

I know someone (through no fault of their own) ran over and killed a child. It completely destroyed them so anything that reduces the risk I totally support.

The UK is soft for driving offences

+1

there’s no downside to these proposals, 20mph limits make the areas within them more pleasant and safer for everyone. they’re not perfect but i’m glad i live in one.

+1

When it’s busy it only takes one person to stick to the limit to make everyone else do it.

+1. I gleefully do that in my big suv. Shocking how many people tailgate you doing 30 in a 30, as if to try and intimidate.

The usual leftists looking forward to being governed harder, as expected.
Hopefully there will be some local bladerunner types as per London ulez who will destroy any enforcement cameras.

Oh dear.

Oh dear.

Yep

The French answer to the destruction of fixed speed cameras has been investment in camera cars which drive around and pick up any car speeding in either direction. They're making a fortune, no-one has a clue where they are and even the most determined speeders who knew every camera and the habits of the Gendarmes are running out of points and having to slow down. On roads near you soon,

Same with parking, a couple of camera cars in Lyon check 6000 cars a day whereas wardens used to manage a few hundred.

And emissions zones, at present it's just the police enforcing but it can only be a matter of time before there's a data base of the zone ratings of every car and the camera cars automatically fine the cars that shouldn't be in the zone.

In Marseille police cars have cameras to check out every car they pass, the main success has been recovering stolen cars.

So think hard about what you wish for, Daveylad.

@Edukator Thanks to Eric Pickles, councils in the UK aren’t allowed to use camera cars for parking enforcement.

🙁

Shocking how many people tailgate you doing 30 in a 30, as if to try and intimidate.

I just slow down a bit more when they do that.

Shocking how many people tailgate you doing 30 in a 30, as if to try and intimidate.

Have you seen the stickers you can get saying "this car has a Black Box - trust me it annoys me more than you" or "sorry I can't speed, Black Box fitted"

It's apologising for driving to the law?! I mean, WTAF? Sorry I'm driving in a law-abiding manner and "holding you up, I feel I have to explain the fact I;m not doing 40 in a 20 zone".

FFS.

If 20 is too much for 2nd gear, and too little for 3rd gear, just drive at less than 20 in 2nd. 20mph is the limit, not the target

Thanks to Eric Pickles, councils in the UK aren’t currently allowed to use camera cars for parking enforcement.

FTFY, as no government can constrain another under our current rules. It's coming and should make city and town centres nicer places to be.

@Sandwich Have you got a reference for that? Sounds like very good news.

slowoldman
Full Member
Shocking how many people tailgate you doing 30 in a 30, as if to try and intimidate.

I just slow down a bit more when they do that.

Cruising along at 20/30 with an obviously enraged goon in tow is an underrated pleasure.

The usual leftists looking forward to being governed harder, as expected.

Hopefully there will be some local bladerunner types as per London ulez who will destroy any enforcement cameras

Wow.

I very rarely drive at the speed limit even on bigger roads.  Looking ahead (helps being in a van) and seeing the next town a few kms away means I'm loath to hit the accelerator only to jump on the brakes again rather than just cruising and taking my foot off and letting it coast down to 50kmh.

30kmh zones throughout quite a few cities including Munich. Makes driving much easier and you've more time to check what's going on. I like it.

There's a place for speed, but it's not residential/town streets.

How time are you really saving?

.