You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
It was the Sun wot won it.
Well the right wing media for sure. 5 years of drip, drip, drip negativity about Corbyn (some of it deserved but the majority of it wildly exaggerated and overplayed). Decades of drip, drip, drip negativity about Europe.
Blair only won when he had the support of the Sun.
If this election is anything it's another example of how much influence billionaire media baron's wield in our "democracy"
Perchy
Very sadly ,that is spot on.
Perchy has it I think.
I think it’s fascinating the number of new contributors to this thread with smug comments, none of which could be bothered to provide any argument as to why people should vote Tory before the day. Almost as if they are ashamed, or can’t justify their motives...
If this election is anything it’s another example of how much influence billionaire media baron’s wield in our “democracy”
This too, rings true.
Labour, on the other hand don’t get that at all. They think that people are scrutinising intricate policy details and don’t care about the superficial things like voting for a creepy old beardy weirdy guy who looks like a tramp.
If Labour had taken the Tories approach to campaigning it would've worked well?
Labour always had a real problem. The Blair offering was not sufficiently differentiated from the Cameron Tories - if you were poor, you were still going to be ****ed over, it's just that the Blairites would shed crocodile years while doing it instead of cackling with glee. So when Labour decided to try actual socialism, I thought it would be a good thing. What I failed to account for was that the actual socialists would be such incredibly incompetent politicians. Combine that with the other big problem for Labour, that most of their traditional working class vote comes from actual racist xenophobic fascists, and they were always going to struggle. I really can't see where they go from here, although the Tories complete capitulation to the far right has opened up a gap between them and the Blairites again.
Well the right wing media for sure. 5 years of drip, drip, drip negativity about Corbyn (some of it deserved but the majority of it wildly exaggerated and overplayed). Decades of drip, drip, drip negativity about Europe.
The Tories understood that people as a collective mass don’t actually care that much about the details and just want to be left alone so they offered a simplistic solution.
We have to acknowledge the clarity of thought behind Cummings’ election strategy. Repeat three words ad infinitum, win.
All this. They're strong marketeers and so much of politics is marketing. The problem is the apparent lack of willingness to debate, engage or even be truthful about what's behind the marketing lines and the wealthy press owners doing the work for them. Habits and interests can change that but it takes a real bump to change people.
It's about the quality of the politics more than the outcomes, within rational range of outcomes of course -if we see 'manifesto point page 48' on the relationship between law and government taken to extremes things could get very dark but right now rationality is more important that any worst-case panic.
With a large majority my hope is that they can ease off on that populist marketing tactic and work in the country's best interests but it feels naive to think that's likely, especially without a strong opposition. Would happy to be proven wrong.
Farage was on TV last night outlining his priorities; a written constitution, PR and abolishing the House of Lords.
If Labour had taken the Tories approach to campaigning it would’ve worked well?
Nope, because they don't have anyone who is charismatic enough to outshine Boris.
David Milliband might have pulled it off. They need a tall, good looking white male with nice hair or a slim , well groomed but super intelligent and slightly intimidating woman.
And a catchy slogan.
No western democarcy has elected a leader with a beard in decades. They've failed on the superficial stuff and, at the end of the day that's what matters most to get elected.
abolishing the House of Lords
He's going to snap their hand off when they offer him a peerage.
Farage was on TV last night outlining his priorities; a written constitution, PR and abolishing the House of Lords.
I never thought I'd agree with Farage on anything. He's scored a hat trick with those three.
No western democarcy has elected a leader with a beard in decades.
Yeah sure, Corbyn’s problem is that he was just too hard working and detailed.
Also, the arrogance displayed by some people is despicable. If poor people vote labour they are fighting for their rights, if poor people vote for conservative then they are racists/fascists. Just admit it, you don’t care about them, it’s power.
In addition, it seems these days that labour also caters to a specific branch of xenophobia.
Here in Bassetlaw the Tories took a 5000 deficit to a 14,000 lead. Tories have double the vote of Labour in an ex-mining community.
I grew up there. My dad was a miner. With a German wife. Today would have been his birthday. I'm feeling a bit sick on his behalf.
Ed Millband had the charm of a wet mouldy sock.
Also Mariano Rajoy was elected in Spain, and he has a bushy beard.
As humble as ever Flashy.
Well, we now know how futile a second Brexit referendum would have been. Would’ve lost that one by a bucketload too.
CON + BRX share of the vote = 46%
The comments above cover all the main reasons:
- the UK press being almost exclusively right wing
- voters prioritising charisma over policies
- corbyn's unelectability (surely he's secretly a tory and this was part of his grand plan?)
- polarisation of the parties leaving moderate voters no where to go
What really pisses me off is the superior attitude of many “liberal progressives” on this thread. The hand-wringing which is going on now that the poor unfortunates living rough on the streets are going to be forsaken or the foreigners who are going to get their comeuppance at the hands of the racist, fascists now in power.
Please could you possibly point me at any socialist/liberal/democratic government here or across Europe who has in the past or is now doing anything to overcome this Europe-wide problem?
I did a web search, Finland apparently. I suggest you all sell your BMWs and Audis and book your tickets now.
Turnout in Canterbury was 75%, the highest it's been since 92 and on average about 10% higher than all the neighbouring wards. I saw streams of young people going in and out when I went to vote and I assume this is what's made the difference. One of the very few southern constituencies to remain Labour, actually increasing the majority to a couple of thousands up from only a couple of hundred two years ago (the win in 2017 following something like 180 years of Tory control!!)67% turnout, utterly depressing that almost exactly a third of the electorate just couldn’t be arsed to get out and vote.
Somehow people have managed to get the young/students really engaged here which is very encouraging for the future. Just a shame it couldn't have been replicated elsewhere!
Somehow people have managed to get the young/students
really engagedbrainwashed here which is very encouraging for the future. Just a shame it couldn’t have been replicated elsewhere!
Fixed that for you
Ed Millband had the charm of a wet mouldy sock.
Agreed, Not Ed.
David.
Also Mariano Rajoy was elected in Spain, and he has a bushy beard.
Yeah, but he's one of those "Europeans". They're not to be trusted.
Brian Blessed could pull it off though so i'll concede the point.
And you don’t think that traditional Labour voters in “leave” constituencies, pissed off that their MP was holding things up and voting Conservative were not voting tactically then?
You've described straightforward politics.
There was a 76% correlation between % unskilled workers and % swing from LAB to CON and LIB to CON. Plotted in today's FT. That's a very impressive result# on over 600 data points and it is valid right down to Labour (-ve swing) winning in Putney and up to Bolsover. The working classes wanted Brexit and they voted to get it. Be careful what you wish for is all I can say.
% Swing ~ 0.5*(% working class - 20) and valid for negative swing too.
Gifted link you should be able to open https://on.ft.com/2LO1eNp
the SNP are indeed the party that will challenge the Torytards.
Can we get them to march south?
No, it will probably come from a new party.
Well they'll need to get their skates on if they are to be ready to challenge in 5 years.
I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with that - but that's essentially what ALL political campaigning is so not really a valid criticism! It's no worse than how your average Tory voter has been brainwashed by the media & jolly old Boris (on a massive scale!!) At least the students have been brainwashed on the side of good, not evil 😂 Or maybe they just care about each other/the future?!Somehow people have managed to get the young/students really engaged brainwashed here which is very encouraging for the future. Just a shame it couldn’t have been replicated elsewhere!Fixed that for you
I can't see how the SNP can be denied another ref on this result, 48 out of 59 for a nationalist party "is we want independence and we want it now!"
I mean, I don’t necessarily disagree with that, but it’s no worse than how your average Tory voter has been brainwashed by the media & jolly old Boris (on a massive scale!!) At least the students have been brainwashed on the side of good, not evil 😂 Or maybe they just care about each other/the future?!
Tory voters don't get brainwashed, they just grow older, get a bit of money in their pockets and realise where the country's best interest lies. I think Tony Blair did a brilliant job of getting a shedload of millenials into colleges and universities who wouldn't normally go but who identify with Corbyn. They will hopefully learn in time.
Not sure what positives there are....
The LDs increased their majority by 7 points here. We an island in a sea of blue, perhaps we should go for independence. Shame about Jo, I get the dislike but I don't share the hate for her.
errrm
I'm in the top 5% so I'll get a tax cut right?
errr
Strong and stable something something?
Sorry can't think of any more.
I think it’s fascinating the number of new contributors to this thread with smug comments, none of which could be bothered to provide any argument as to why people should vote Tory before the day. Almost as if they are ashamed, or can’t justify their motives…
Twas curious, can understand my Twitter bubble protecting me from tory voters but the demographic on here pre election would have suggested Corbyn had it in the bag. Likewise the people I'm still in touch with in the UK were all labour. Apart from a few elderly relatives there's no one to cross off my Xmas list.
Tory voters don’t get brainwashed, they just grow older, get a bit of money in their pockets and
realise where the country’sare conned into thinking where their own best interest lies
FTFY
Klunk
Member
I can’t see how the SNP can be denied another ref on this result, 48 out of 59 for a nationalist party “is we want independence and we want it now!”
Actually I think it was more a "we want to stay in the EU" type plea more than anything else. I hope Sturgeon does get another referendum and gets her arse handed to her on a plate again. I can't see the Scots being dumb enough to be out of the EU and independant of Britain as well.
Please could you possibly point me at any socialist/liberal/democratic government here or across Europe who has in the past or is now doing anything to overcome this Europe-wide problem?
Homelessness right here in the UK went up during austerity, as did poverty and in-work poverty. It was better in this country before austerity. I don't think you need to look elsewhere for your arguments.
It's funny that it's just Tory voters that get conned. Where did all the demented OAPs who were confused about the original referendum and would now change their vote go? To the polling stations that's where, to finish what they voted for in 2016.
The result called a while ago. Predicted ..
Boris wins Tory leadership
New deal negotiated
Governing becomes impossible
Election called
Best Tory majority since 1987.
https://order-order.com/2019/12/13/one-pundit-called/
Homelessness right here in the UK went up during austerity, as did poverty and in-work poverty. It was better in this country before austerity. I don’t think you need to look elsewhere for your arguments.
I've no doubt you are right but what was the fundamental cause of Tory austerity measures? Was it maybe the Blair/Brown governments putting an end to the cycle of boom and bust? Didn't exactly do us a lot of good did it trying to bankrupt the country. Yes, of course, we should have just thrown more money at the problem that would have solved it.
Could you possibly suggest what is the excuse for Germany, France, Spain et al in this regard as well?
Brian Blessed could pull it off though so i’ll concede the point.
Brian Blessed has a big shouty posh voice, rescues lost animals, and has shagged his way through about fifteen hareems whilst simultaneously navigating to the north pole on a sled pulled by huskies.
Also, he said "Gordon's Alive".
Ideal Prime Minister material.
Actually I think it was more a “we want to stay in the EU”
if that was the case then Swinson would have kept her seat.
Brian Blessed has a big shouty posh voice, rescues lost animals, and has shagged his way through about fifteen hareems whilst simultaneously navigating to the north pole on a sled pulled by huskies.
Also, he said “Gordon’s Alive”.
Ideal Prime Minister material.
But he has a beard.
Hugh Grant FTW.
Posh shaggers seem to be all the rage.
Beard:
forzafkawi I can’t see the Scots being dumb enough to be out of the EU and independant of Britain as well.
Cheers for that, i can't see how the english are dumb enough to elect a turkey slaughterhouse to lead them into xmas.
I am pro indépendance and pro EU/pro immigration rather than a closeted narrow minded brexiteer.
Just reading through all the results, it's very depressing.
All 3 Stoke seats went blue.
High Peak gone blue and most disappointingly Dennis Skinner lost his seat 😩. The house of commons will be a very different place 🙁
The house of commons will be a very different place
Indeed, there won't be so much counter argument as in recent past. It'll just be a bunch of torytards pointing fingers and shouting down anyone who cares to open their mouths.
I’ve no doubt you are right but what was the fundamental cause of Tory austerity measures? Was it maybe the Blair/Brown governments putting an end to the cycle of boom and bust?
Simplified, if you borrow shit loads of money ay some point you have to pay it back or be forever indebted. Lots of people furnished themselves with the results of that borrowing. and now are impacted by UK/.org paying it back.
Vis a vis there's decades of people in large houses with several cars and a greenhouse complaining about potholes in the road and the length of time it takes to get a Dr's appointment.
The house of commons will be a very different place
I'd imagine Holyrood will be a different place also after the new government rams through legislation to strip it of as many powers as it can.
It's all about Taking Back Control innit.
somafunk
Subscriber
forzafkawi I can’t see the Scots being dumb enough to be out of the EU and independant of Britain as well.
Cheers for that, i can’t see how the english are dumb enough to elect a turkey slaughterhouse to lead them into xmas.
I am pro indépendance and pro EU/pro immigration rather than a closeted narrow minded brexiteer.
Jibes aside I can't see what Scottish independance would achieve? I can understand why the Scots would prefer to be part of Europe but can't fathom your isolationist attitude to GB (or is it just England?). I just don't see the majority voting to go it alone in another referendum.
Posh shaggers seem to be all the rage.
As it happens, I haven't shaved for a couple of months...
The house of commons will be a very different place
I’d imagine Holyrood will be a different place also after the new government rams through legislation to strip it of as many powers as it can.
It’s all about Taking Back Control innit.
Is a very good point.
Is a very good point.
No, its not, its moronic garbage like so much posted on STW's political threads - carry on in your deluded bubble.
Ignore
Is a very good point.
No, its not, its moronic garbage like so much posted on STW’s political threads – carry on in your deluded bubble.
Meh
No, its not, its moronic garbage like so much posted on STW’s political threads – carry on in your deluded bubble.
If you can't see that, bouyed by the success of his recent tactics, Dominic Cummings won't instruct Boris to use whatever means necessary to further consolidate his position then you're the one that's deluded.
He's lied to the Queen, purged the moderates from his own party, thrown his DUP mates under the bus and sidelined all of the Westminster opposition parties.
Who's next? The judiciary, the BBC and Channel 4 should also expect a stormy time ahead.
It's about time the BBC were taken to task, especially for their pathetic interpretation of The War Of The Worlds
If you can’t see that, bouyed by the success of his recent tactics, Dominic Cummings won’t instruct Boris to use whatever means necessary to further consolidate his position then you’re the one that’s deluded.
There is absolutely zero benefit in political terms - therefore will not happen.
Posh shaggers seem to be all the rage.
As it happens, I haven’t shaved for a couple of months…
Implied humblebrag by CFH, I've been told you're not as good looking as you think, Tracey from seat 107c joining the mile high club doesn't count. 😉
There is absolutely zero benefit in political terms – therefore will not happen.
What do you mean. Boris cannot comprehend the concept of scrutiny. Anything he can do to neuter it, he will do.
Posh shaggers seem to be all the rage.
David Beckham for PM
Jibes aside I can’t see what Scottish independance would achieve? I can understand why the Scots would prefer to be part of Europe but can’t fathom your isolationist attitude to GB
We can't fathom England's love affair with the tories
How come none of the countries that have gained independence from the UK have ever came crawling back? What makes Scotland the exception? Why is our desire for independence questioned?
I can’t see the Scots being dumb enough to be out of the EU and independant of Britain as well.
I pray the SNP aren't dumb enough to hold another Indyref without some sort of assurances from the EU.
Problem is, this is where the next battle in the media will be fought, it will be the 65% Tory/right wing papers telling us that we can't rejoin the EU, v.s. the centrist/lefty papers telling us maybe, and the National telling us definitely.
And moderates like me stuck in the middle wondering which way to gamble. I wouldn't and didn't vote for Scotland out of EU AND GB, although look where that got me, Scotland out of EU whether I like it or not.
Richard Burgon in denial on world at one there: no no, nothing wrong with policies or leader, it's just a blip
Blunkett and Clarke talking sense: different leader with soclal democratic policies would have cleaned up
There is absolutely zero benefit in political terms – therefore will not happen.
+1. Boris is going to spend the next five years doing popular stuff to chase votes. He's not going to do anything to jeopardize that.
We can’t fathom England’s love affair with the tories
Really? Because Scotland has two Tory MPs and only one Labour MP. If you all want a Labour government so much how about providing 50 or so Labour MPs to join the 200 or so England and Wales provides?
Feels to me as though Scotland is as reluctant to vote for Momentum/Labour as anyone in England and Wales.
He’s got a majority of 80, he hasn’t got anything to worry about, especially from a bunch of MPs who spend their time banging on about independence.
+1.
What do you mean. Boris cannot comprehend the concept of scrutiny.
He's got a majority of 80, he hasn't got anything to worry about, especially from a bunch of MPs who spend their time banging on about independence.
We can’t fathom England’s love affair with the tories
It's not so long ago that the SNP were known as the tartan tories. And don't forget that nearly four in every ten Scots voted to leave the EU.
My point is that Scotland, like England, is not a homogeneous entity. Plenty of us down south live in Labour/ remain areas.
BoardinBob
What makes Scotland the exception? Why is our desire for independence questioned?
Your "desire for independance" is in the minority though as ably demonstrated by the last referendum 45%-55%. Do you think leaving the EU will overcome that defecit?
In seriousness; Labour needs a celebrity, charismatic leader without significant baggage, ASAP. It’s the main reason Boris harvested working class, not particularly politically engaged votes. Time and again I heard “yeah, but you know, he’s funny isn’t he?” from friends and colleagues (in the bloody NHS!!?!?) as a justification for why the were drawn towards Boris.
Charisma, sadly, is worth a great deal more than worthy policies.
The manifesto, other than being perceived as complicated and a bit ambitious, was not particularly toxic, and many liked the individual policy ideas.
So Hugh Grant/Frank Skinner/Peter Kaye and a simplified, less ambitious manifesto should walk it in 5 years time.
Blunkett and Clarke talking sense: different leader with soclal democratic policies would have cleaned up
Talking sense or representing your politics? It's obvious that Corbyn is unpopular but Labour's policies tend to poll favourably. I think they made a huge mistake to shoehorn so much into their manifesto but it doesn't mean that everything in there should be scrapped.
He’s got a majority of 80, he hasn’t got anything to worry about, especially from a bunch of MPs who spend their time banging on about independence.
Grand Moff Cummings
The Scottish Parliament will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.
General Mogg:
But that's impossible. How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?
Grand Moff Cummings
The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line.
In seriousness; Labour needs a celebrity, charismatic leader without significant baggage, ASAP.
If by "ASAP" you mean "about five years ago" then you're bang on the money.
If by “ASAP” you mean “about five years ago” then you’re bang on the money.
True dat. Still, we are where we are. Any raises on H Grant/F Skinner/P Kaye?
If by “ASAP” you mean “about five years ago” then you’re bang on the money.
You need to go back a bit further than that.
If the unions hadn't got the wrong Milliband elected the right Milliband would still be PM today, and there wouldn't have been a referendum.
Fantasyland that ‘the right Milliband’ would have made the foggiest bit of difference.
Fantasyland that ‘the right Milliband’ would have made the foggiest bit of difference.
You're kidding? David would of beaten the other David. Even Ed didn't do that badly and he couldn't even eat a sandwich without looking like a ****.
The manifesto, other than being perceived as complicated and a bit ambitious, was not particularly toxic, and many liked the individual policy ideas.
It was dreadful for all the reasons debated endlessly on the other thread.
David Blunkett described it as "An impossible program which nobody would believe."
The manifesto was as bad as Corbyn himself and the mental Brexit position.
If the unions hadn’t got the wrong Milliband elected the right Milliband would still be PM today, and there wouldn’t have been a referendum.
+1.
Do you think leaving the EU will overcome that defecit?
I voted no because I didn't want to be out of the EU, it was a big part of the campaign and something that the SNP were unable to reassure us on adequately. Now it's irrelevant, we're out!
It wasn't the only thing, remember the concerns about the oil running out and rumours that the Tories were sitting on the knowledge of a big new field being discovered? Guess what was in the news the very next day after IndyRef? That's right! Guess what guys, the oil isn't running out!
I don't want to get into an argument about oil though (it obviously is running out in the grand scheme). Point being, a lot of things which might have scared moderate voters away from a YES vote have since been rendered moot, or shown to be project fear. I'll vote Yes this time simply to be shot of the toxic wasteland that is Westminster.
also I wish the SNP had the guts to just say 'why should we present an economic case for independence, where was the proven economic case for Brexit?'
They get held to an impossibly high standard, remember the white paper they issued for IndyRef1, which got debated in forensic detail? Where was the Brexit equivalent? A slogan on a ****ing bus?
also I wish the SNP had the guts to just say ‘why should we present an economic case for independence, where was the proven economic case for Brexit?’
They could, but if they did presumably everyone would vote remain.
As an Indy leaver would you want a deal with the UK or are you happy to leave the UK with no deal?
Would you rule out leaving the UK if no good deal was offered? If so what's to stop the UK refusing to offer a reasonable deal and maintaining the union that way?
This election was really England's independence campaign.
Now they have it it's time they got out of that other union and stopped subsidising all those whining Scots. 🙂
Personally I would be sorry to see Scotland, NI or Wales leave the United Kingdom. My father (now dead) was Scottish and I still have a lot of relatives up there and spent many happy holidays there in my youth, less so in recent years. I have always thought of myself as British and apart from the odd football match have never really rooted for England and have always supported the home countries against foreign opposition.
I've never really understood the fervent hate of the English that I sometimes see from Scottish or Irish quarters apart from the obvious historical background that should be overcome by now surely? As far as I can see all political assemblies have a toxic element that goes with the constant struggle (and abuse) of power. What makes anyone think that Scotland will be a bed of roses if they gain independance and control of the North sea oil etc. etc?
You don't think Nicola Sturgeon just wants a little bit more power?
You don’t think Nicola Sturgeon just wants a little bit more power?
Of course she does. She's a politician.
I'd be happy to give it to her as, in my opinion, she's already demonstrated the ability to wield it responsibly.
We're now facing a decade of financial uncertainty with the impending Bosri Brexit that's never been costed and with no trade deals in place.
Given the absolute inevitability of this chaos i'd rather be on an Indy Scotland chaos bus that she was driving rather than a UK chaos bus that Boris is blindly steering while someone else whispers directions in his ear.
forzafkawl
What makes anyone think that Scotland will be a bed of roses if they gain independance and control of the North sea oil etc. etc?
It won't be, but we will be voting for the politicians who make the bed, instead of getting the ones another country choses.
That's the whole point of independence.