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Please keep calling people you disagree with racists, it seems to be working really well for you.
binners
Subscriber
Are any of you Corbynites going to actually voice a defence of your messiah?Or are you just going to abuse those of us pointing out the obvious?
Agreed. This result is horrific for a traditional Labour supporter like me but entirely predictable and Corbyn/Momentum need to own this and not just blame it on the horrible tory press.
@cougar as much as this result is going to be painful for all of us that dont support Boris its harsh to threaten @Binners for saying the same thing he has been saying for the last two years.
Yes, it’s just Brexit, not Corbyn
If you can find a quote from me saying Corbyn wasn't a factor then go get it. Will you acknowledge that in leave voting labour seats the 2nd ref policy sent thousands of lifelong labour voters who voted leave to the tories? Stop using Corbyn to deny the fact that brexit is still what people want.
Who wants to be Labour leader next? FFS I see nobody I want
Strong support for remain.
So not appealing to leavers, who are apparently 52% of the population
A Blairite at the helm to poach conservative remain voters.
Unless he was a conservative, wasn't going to happen.
Will you acknowledge that in leave voting labour seats the 2nd ref policy sent thousands of lifelong labour voters who voted leave to the tories?
Thousands of voters saw a combination of Brexit policy and a communist millionaire backed and useless looking potential far left PM left as something that was too much to back, even if they had been life long Labour voters in the past. The combination was a killer.
People don’t want Corbyn as PM, and that feeling is as strong with “working class” traditional Labour voters as it is in other groups, Brexit or not.
So not appealing to leavers, who are apparently 52% of the population
Still better than pissing off 52 percent of the population and at least half of the other 48 percent isn't it.
Unless he was a conservative, wasn’t going to happen.
They voted for Blair.
They just quote things that might interest people from the manifestos.
I read the manifestos and I'm pretty sure there was nothing about taking industry by force or extreme socialism or capitalism? There was a lot of that sort of bollocks being chucked around though. Not based on reality though, anymore than the picture of the poor lad lying on the floor in hospital was 'fake'
So, in Sunderland Central Brexit party vote is nearly the same size as the swing from Labour. Not about Brexit? I think it is.
It wasn't a Brexit Election in Scotland according to the Conservative leaflets. The B word was not mentioned once.
No, according to the Tories this was fair and square an Indyref 2 election.
So how does that work out now?
I refer you to the EU referendum thread, Chromolyolly, for hundreds of pages of analysis of Corbyns and Labours Brexit statements and policy. Labour was all about a red Brexit and Corbyn is a lifelong eurosceptic. Why do you think Tom Watson quit?
Kelvin 99% of voters know nothing of Corbyn's advisors.
They voted for Blair.
Post referendum? Different world.
Bercow's good at telly, isn't he?
Labour going to be fortunate that the Brexit part didn't pull out of more seats...
To be fair the Corbynistas have had some successful slogans
why don’t you just **** off and join the Tories
Seems people did as they were requested.
Post referendum? Different world.
They still would.
Face it, it wouldn't have been quite the same route had we managed to get more remainers to vote Labour. Labour lost their leavers by dithering, thus there wasn't any point dithering in the first place.
Kelvin 99% of voters know nothing of Corbyn’s advisors.
A huge chunk of the population think that Corbyn is too left of them to get their support… this comes from what he says… what he says is influenced by his advisors… one of which left the communist party to work with him after he became leader.
refer you to the EU referendum thread,
No ta, too depressing.
Just a quote from the manifesto will do. First hand is always better.
What's a red brexit? The bus was red so we are going to get a red brexit.
@cougar as much as this result is going to be painful for all of us that dont support Boris its harsh to threaten @Binners for saying the same thing he has been saying for the last two years.
Fair enough, but as our nutty friend said my point was rather that he needs to calm down a bit. Hurling hand grenades at the forum isn't helpful.
In any case, if we're all looking for somewhere to blame, has no-one seen a newspaper headline in the last three years? This isn't Boris or Corbyn, it's wilful sustained manipulation of the great unwashed by our media.
Don’t knock Binners, he’s been on the money since day one. The chickens are coming home to roost!
They still would.
If he backed brexit or was a conservative, yes. That's what the data says and the early signs are that the election is going to bear that out.
To be fair the Corbynistas have had some successful slogans
why don’t you just **** off and join the Tories
Seems people did as they were requested
Nicked from twitter. Original as ever.
Just read it:
https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/
Nothing misquoted in French or German media. Just selection of bits that surprise.
As a public servant this is all just so painfully depressing. We/you are ****ed.
You know that's bullshit cromololly, conservatives can be convinced to vote labour if the leader doesn't have raving communist lunatics as advisors. History shows that they can be convinced.
Entertaining the idea that conservative remainers were never worth chasing is why the labour party are in the delusional ideological mess that it's in.
There's talk of a lot of Welsh seats turning Blue, that's pretty much unheard of!!
Just read it:
You did? That was quick. Did you find the bit about taking industry by force? What page is it on?
A huge chunk of the population think that Corbyn is too left of them to get their support…
Undoubtedly. Why though do you still deny the brexit element? I get that you're a passionate remainer, I am too, but sadly we're in the minority. All the semantic gymnastics about brexit over the past 3 years have only made people more entrenched. This was the source of my entire argument on the brexit thread for which I was roundly abused. Well this is the result. FWIW I don't think anything would have been different had labour been 100% pro-brexit or pro-remain, with their vote split between two polarised groups they were always f*****. They tried to bridge the gap, but it didn't work, the only option now is to accept it and move on. Seems to me though that some on here still want them to keep banging the remain drum. Give it up, we lost.
I dispair.
The only slightly positive outcome is that this must mean the end for Corbyn. Surely now the labour party are going to wake up and realise that he's unelectable.
<mod>
Right, stop.
Tempers are running high, we're all angry / upset / gloating, and my moderator colleagues have been fervently deleting posts and a couple of short-term bans have already been issued. Tearing ourselves apart isn't constructive folks, and frankly we all need to go to sleep at some point. So here's what's going to happen:
I'm now going to close this thread. I'm going to make a cup of tea and make a sandwich. I'm going to enjoy said comestibles. I might even treat myself to a poo. Then I'm going to reopen this thread and we'll all come back a little bit calmer and without screaming "j'accuse" at anyone who will listen.
Deal? Good.
</mod>
And we're, back. It's not about brexit. Not at all. Here's Labour's candidate in Stoke...
"It’s a lovely and toxic combination of the fact that the message in Stoke-on-Trent that’s been heard by the voters is that the Labour party tried to stop Brexit. It would be remiss of me not to mention that Jeremy Corbyn has come up on the doorsteps. Some people really like him. Some people really dislike him, and that has been a turnoff.
But John [McDonnell] is right to say that it’s Brexit. The Labour party had a choice when Theresa May presented her deal. We could either have stopped the Tories or we could have stopped Brexit. And unfortunately some of the siren voices in the shadow cabinet who have big Liberal Democrat votes in their London seats decided that stopping Brexit, and therefore lining themselves up for future leadership bids, was much more important than respecting the votes in marginal constituencies in the midlands and in the north west and the north east. And they’ve sacrificed us for whatever political ambitions they want to do next."
And Ian Lavery's seat at risk, another labour MP who was loudly warning about the brexit problem. Are we still carrying on with this fantasy that brexit isn't the main problem?
Brexit was the problem & Corbyn needs to go
Redcar - Tory gain apparently, Tories could outperform the exit poll if that is true.
EDIT: ITV story, based on Labour source so treat with caution.
That'll be amplified by the Brexit sentiment. In remain areas it'll be much less of a swing.
Corbyn needs to go
I don't think there's any doubt that will happen. They'll be scrambling to stop Starmer and Thornberry taking over though, not to mention the usual Blairite suspects. The next leader will be a leaver, hence why Rayner declared herself as one the other night. The metropolitan remainers are finished. We live in a brexit country now, whether we like it or not.
ctk +1
The way I read the situation is that Brexit was the issue - it's just Labour when given the choice of losing hard vs losing, they chose to lose hard by dithering.
The next leader will be a leaver, hence why Rayner declared herself as one the other night. The metropolitan remainers are finished. We live in a brexit country now, whether we like it or not.
They won't be able to galvanise support behind them then, the remainers will stay either lib dem or conservative - at least for then next decade until this debacle is forgotten.
It will be like the lib dems and tuition fees.
The answer is not to double down on anti metropolitan labourism - London counts for a bloody huge swathe of Labour support and you've already lost your brexity Labour voters. They'll vote conservative for the next decade.
It's completely obvious from the few seats in at the moment that Brexit is indeed the issue (purely from the number of Brexit party votes). If only Labour had accepted that.
Burning question of the night - was it a good poo or are results still coming in?
Workington gone. Jesus.
Workington. FFS.
Workington - easy win
If only Labour had accepted that.
Then how many seats would they have lost to LDs? We'll never know. As I've been saying for ages - Labour were cornered by Brexit.
Turnout -12.6% so far
Ian Lavery held on. Small mercies. He's going to be a big voice in the future direction. If he gets his way it won't be in the direction of Starmer or Thornberry. Brexit has truly broken the labour party. The policies were popular, apart from one.
I think they need to argue for a close relationship with Europe.
Thornberry would never win an election for labour.
Turnout -12.6% so far
Bet most of those are remainers.
Con gain Darlington
Lab gain Jarrow
Are either of those significant? I have no idea.
What an utter **** Aaron Banks is. I really struggle to express how much I despise him.
(just been interviewed on BBC, not just a random statement)
Good chance that Zac Goldsmith might lose his seat
Turnout in Jo Swinsons seat is apparently over 80%. I wonder if that will save her.
Jarrow is a hold not a gain - no Labour gains yet - best chance of those is in London, everywhere else looks pretty bleak.
I wonder if that will save her
Lets hope not. It'll be one of the few silver linings. I'm still not resigning myself to this till the metropolitan seats start coming in. The north east was always going to be a massive problem for labour, and the city seats won't compensate for the losses, but it'll be interesting to see what happens in remain areas.
Jarrow is a hold not a gain – no Labour gains yet
I think you might be right. Looks like the Guardian's tracker is wrong then:
(No reason for picking that as a source other than it appearing after Google's own and seemed to update quickly, open to better suggestions)
Yep need to see some remain seats. 10% swing Lab to Con in every Leave seat
Good chance that Zac Goldsmith might lose his seat
Yep. He was lucky to win in 2017.
I can’t sleep.
Turnout in Jo Swinsons seat is apparently over 80%. I wonder if that will save her.
Meant to be close. Should know in an hour…
Wrexham gone to tories, remain vote splintered. Nowt to do with brexit obviously.
Putney gone to labour. Interesting.
The Eigg box arrived safely.
Labour have just taken Putney.
That a definite? Putney was Greening’s seat, wasn’t it?
Labour just held Putney.
It was a gain. First of the night. Justine Greening's seat.
Yeah, edited!
To be honest, I was expecting Labour to grab Putney. Heavily remain area. I don’t think the Tories will be too disappointed with that one.
PC hold Arfon with an increased majority, 4% swing. Remainer MP.
The new Tory MP for Wrexham apparently had been a nurse and social worker. And a Tory??!
conservatives can be convinced to vote labour if the leader doesn’t have raving communist lunatics as advisors. History shows that they can be convinced.
The polls said different. We are in a different time. Polarisation is in, compromise is for girlie swots.
I agree that in the past centrist voters could be pulled by centrist policies but that is a vanishingly small constituency in today's post-trump, post-truth world.
Good chance that Zac Goldsmith might lose his seat
Always likely, he would be swimming against the tide to survive.
The new Tory MP for Wrexham apparently had been a nurse and social worker. And a Tory??!
Dorries was a nurse.
Tories win Tony Blair's old seat.
The polls said different. We are in a different time. Polarisation is in, compromise is for girlie swots.
Polarisation is a blackhole, if you want Labour to get in you have to counter the flight to the extremes because the right will always win that game in the UK. Throughout history these political standoffs are a coin flip, a crap shoot, Russian roulette etc etc.
It is how democracies end.
Bollocks Cairns got back in in my constituency. Slimey toad
The way I read the situation is that Brexit was the issue
You've abandoned the dark side and moved into the light! Oh course it was in a lot of regions. The labour losses have coincided exactly with the cons and brexit gains. In the early reports from the red wall areas the brexit party are taking a bigger chunk of labour's losses than the Tories.
However, early projections from Swindon? Showed labour down 5% in a remain area. So there it seems that Corbyn probably is the problem. It is half the swing of leave areas though.
Who's "Alliance" when it's at home?
Polarisation is a blackhole, if you want Labour to get in you have to counter the flight to the extremes b
If you an figure out how to do that, you will be able to turn a worldwide trends around. Parties closer to the extreme right and left are on the up around the world.
Who’s “Alliance” when it’s at home?
Non-sectarian NI party, allied to but not the same as the LDs (for example, Naomi Long didn’t take the coalition whip 2010-15)
f you an figure out how to do that, you will be able to turn a worldwide trends around. Parties closer to the extreme right and left are on the up around the world.
Better people than me are working on it.
But we need more people taking an interest.
I have about 10 books to read on mass movements, counter insurgency, red teaming and geopolitics to get through first.
Here in Bassetlaw you just hear people talking up Boris.
Astonishing. I wonder what Joe Ashton is thinking.
Alliance
They are the Norn Iron party aren't they? They had a seat in 2010?
Guardian journalist suggesting Miliband might be in trouble, he has a 14,000 majority. Seems unlikely.
There is also a fairly large faction of remainers who still just want Brexit done cos they are fed up with it.