You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
This does show just how dysfunctional our parliment is. 40% of the vote giving a huge majority that can take radical steps.
One bright point. Swinson is going to lose her seat
One sitting comfortably in the European social democratic tradition and a thoughtful considered man.
Dude, stop with this. As I've shown before - he's further left than the Scandi countries. It's wilful ignorance to carry on pretending this isn't the case.
Not that it matters - whether you are right or not doesn't matter - it's about optics! Because the left care about ideology and not optics, we've ended up here - along with a split remain vote.
Had the remain vote not been split and/or apathetic we'd have not lost this hard. Corbyn is to blame for that.
a fairly obvious indication of how unpopular the leader of the opposition is.
But why? Smears, or has everyone suddenly become hardline anti-racist and cannot tolerate any leader even slightly tainted with anti-semitism?
Think about it. People complain about the *insinuation* of antisemitism against Corbyn, and yet Johnson and his party are Islamophobic all the time. Why would the electorate be so sensitive towards antisemitism and not care about Islamophobia? Cos they're being conned.
I would expect the Tories to be pro-indyref2 as would increase their majority even further.
No sure if that is the right way forward if you are a Tory.
I ****ing loath the Tory’s, but I hate the bunch of utter clowns that have turned the Labour Party into the joke it is today and has gifted the Tories everything they ever wanted
Really it's what Labour voters said they wanted.
The long standing effective smear campaign and offering an option to remain will cost them this election IMO.
Cos they’re being conned.
They are being distracted. The promise of certainty over brexit is more important to them than how utterly unappealing they are
Who cares Molgrips, the point is - Labour were able to be smeared with the anti-Semitism label - because it's true. If they had dealt with this properly, the Tory party would have stayed being the nasty party and they would not have been able to frame the labour party as being hypocritical.
The blame lies with labour and they will not learn and move on if the left does not accept that.
I don't think I'm going to be able to leave the country, my folks are getting older and I need to be around. Still, with the NHS being run by Tories they probably won't last long.
The blame lies with labour and they will not learn and move on if the left does not accept that.
No I agree. Labour was poor. But you cannot claim that there weren't a whole string of problems boxing Corbyn in. As I said all along, It would have taken an outstanding political operator to navigate all that if it was even possible.
If you supported Corbyn then you’re a ****ing idiot. It’s that simple
As Cougar says, it wasn't about voting for Corbyn it was about voting against tory. Anyhow what's so bright about those who voted for Boris?
Tory party would have stayed being the nasty party
They did. Rees mogg, gove, Johnson's dad and Bojo. No one likes them no one trusts them but they voted for them. Explain that.
Really it’s what Labour voters said they wanted.
The long standing effective smear campaign and offering an option to remain has cost them this election IMO.
IMO the split remain vote cost them - they would not have been defeated so hard had remainers not been so apathetic and split between lab and lib.
Rayban - actually you were proven wrong on Scandinavia but I lost the will to argue with you. Tax rates, welfare state rates, educational spending, public ownership etc etc
Nothing in labours manifesto is hard left at all and would be perfectly normal in most of europe.
Well that's one Labour vote in!
Newcastle central ... the same result again and almost the same as that in 2017.
She now can have a happy ride to retirement for sure.
Labour again in Sunderland albeit reduce majority.
Brexit voting seats swinging to the brexit supporting party. It’s nothing to do with brexit though, obviously. Time for remainers to wake up and smell the coffee. If using Corbyn as a scapegoat helps, good luck with that. Doesn’t change a damn thing though. We’re leaving, get over it. When politicians don’t listen to voters, they get voted out.
Are any of you Corbynites going to actually voice a defence of your messiah?
Or are you just going to abuse those of us pointing out the obvious?
Off you go...
Do let us know your vision of our bright socialist future....
Tax rates, welfare state rates, educational spending, public ownership etc etc
Most of Scandinavia is as heavily privatised if not more heavily privatised than the UK. Stating they are not is an outright lie.
Edukator – that was what quite a few different Germans, French and Dutch folk said to me
OK, I believe you. Where did you meet them? Because the last centrist French people I chatted with (while riding VTTs in SWFrance) who knew of him asked me if he was realy going to take over companies by force and also asked what was going on in England with the only options being extreme socialism or extreme capitalism. I could only aswer that yes he was and that was true.
Even the fairly centrist TV channels point to Corbyns more extreme socialist policies with surprise when protraying the stakes of the election.
Enjoy your Neo liberal future Binbins X
Blyth Valley ... gone to Conservative ... o oh ...
Stewart Lee summed it up well when he said people preferred labour under Blair when they looked like a bunch of coke dealers from an advertising agency, rather than now when they are led by Catweazle and his army of furious tramps.
Are any of you Corbynites going to actually voice a defence of your messiah?
Yes, Daz is. It’s all Brexit, not Corbyn and his Communist advisors… and that theme will be stuck to for the next five years. The next election needs to be lost before the record stops.
Blyth Valley bloody hell
See that's the problem with you momentum lot - call anyone who doesn't support Corbyn a neo liberal as if it's a dirty word.
It's like a legion of Ernst Thalmanns.
They'll be calling you Social Fascists next Binners. You're the enemy of the true believers now, it's people like you that caused Comrade Corbynichovs loss.
realy going to privatise companies by force and also asked what was going on in England with the only options being extreme socialism or extreme capitalism. I could only aswer that yes he was and that was true.
JC on a bike. What, he was gonna call out the army and take over industry?
He isn't even as socialist as the Labour government that created the NHS. Extreme socialism and extreme capitalism? Nowhere even close to either.
Just shows the power of social media though.
Blyth Valley bloody hell
Wow. I think I'll go to bed now. Not even that close.
Putting up a candidate called 'Dungworth' can't have helped though.
It looks like tactical voting to Conservative in Blyth Valley ...
Although the results have yet to be released, if the exit polls are as accurate as they have been previously, then I think the Labour Party are the issue:
the Labour policies seemed totally unachievable and a reminder of the bad old days of the 70’s. Renationalisation of some industries might be acceptable, but the rhetoric put out by Corbyn was way off-tune. Coupled with Corbyn’s complete failure to be a convincing PM candidate, Labour weren’t an appealing opposition party, something we needed.
In addition, Brexit fatigue meant people wanted an end, one way or another. Labour didn’t offer that.
I would like to have seen a sensible middle ground, but there wasn’t one on offer.
All IMHO...
Let’s see what tomorrow brings and go for a ride!
Are any of you Corbynites going to actually voice a defence of your messiah?
We're talking about the issues, like grown ups. If you keep this up no-one's going to want you to join in.
Blythe Valley has a 10% swing ffs
I go to the gym hoping to come back and watch Boris get a hammering except the exit poll flashed up on one of the screens in it. I may have swore rather loudly, thankfully the girl on duty just looked at me and said she'd let it slide as it's justified.
I hope to God that the exit polls are wrong and we get as close to a hung parliament as possible. How the **** can people vote like is predicted? My facebook feed is full of nurses, teachers and the low paid all saying it's a great result, all the people that could lose an awful lot.
If any young people are reading this I apologise on behalf of my generation and older who have right royally screwed your immediate future.
Absolutely staggering that result in Blyth
Stop swearing at each other, please. Wind it in. The attacks on you have been deleted Binners, no need to dish it back. Calm down. I understand your anger and defensiveness, but it’s not worth rising to the bait.
But it's not about Brexit, of course. An ex-mining town has overnight become true blue Tories just randomly. Not Brexit related at all.
Just shows the power of social media though.
Mainstream media.
They promised more hospitals and nurses.
Ohhh we’ll get them. Funded privately (like several new builds recently) then be shackled to debt owned by overseas investors.
Rule ****ing Britannia
Best Twitter response to election so far
https://mobile.twitter.com/gavmacn/status/1205255004195610629
OK, I believe you. Where did you meet them?
While walking in the hills in northern Mallorca
& this is my fault how?
So pundits saying it's a mix of:
1) Brexit galvanisation among leave voters
2) Corbyn becoming a known entity
3) Brexit fatigue and apathy among remainers
Labour are ****ed if that 10% swing is representative
Blythe Valley has a 10% swing ffs
Also voted just over 60% leave iirc.
It is possible we see swings the other way in heavy remain constituencies. It'll be interesting.
Labour are **** if that 10% swing is representative
Potential indication for future election direction ...
Mainstream media.
Maybe some of it. Telegraph and the like. I can't recall any references to extreme socialism or capitalism in the media. Or taking industry by force.
The forest kept shrinking but the trees still voted for the axe because the handle was made of wood and they thought it was one of them.
So pundits saying it’s a mix of:
1) Brexit galvanisation among leave voters
2) Corbyn becoming a known entity
3) Brexit fatigue and apathy among remainers
Seems reasonable, my last post on the Breixit thread was sadness at the fact people seemed more and more resigned to Brexit just from reading this forum.
Yes, Daz is.
You know fine well I said months ago that labour should be wary of going against the brexit vote. Blyth Valley, which had the most vociferous MP screaming that it was at risk if labour moved towards remain fell. What evidence do you need?
Oh I also said that remainers voting for Lib Dem’s would hand victory to Boris. Tory majority in Blyth 1000, 2000 Lib Dem votes, go figure.
Yes, it’s just Brexit, not Corbyn and his communist and far left millionaire advisors that have turned people away. When Labour shed MPs for either not being left enough, or being Jewish, or both, what do you think your swing voters were taking from that?
Seems reasonable, my last post on the Breixit thread was sadness at the fact people seemed more and more resigned to Brexit just from reading this forum.
And Corbyn is the cause of both points 2 and 3.
Had they been given hope, remain turnout would have been better and less split. Labour probably would have still lost, but not this hard.
Do we actually have any Corbynites here
What do they ride? I've heard gravel bike afficiandos are a bit subversive.
I think you've missed the point I'm talking about French media, Chromolyolly in response to TJ talking about European views of Corbyn and the media I'm refering to are TF1, Le Point, Libé, Le Figaro, Charlie Hebdo and German; Eins Extra, FAZ, RBB, On Vista...
John Bercow on Sky at the moment, worth a listen.
Yup, Bercow perceptive as ever.
And Corbyn is the cause of both points 2 and 3.
Well #2 is axiomatic but how does the guy that was against the leave deal, for the bill preventing hard brexit and only willing to go to an election once a no deal brexit is off the table goin to cause apathy and fatigue amongst remainders?
The fatigue is because it wasn't going anywhere for good reason.
Sky News call it the Brexit Election
my last post on the Breixit thread was sadness at the fact people seemed more and more resigned to Brexit just from reading this forum.
It just takes too much emotional effort to keep fighting it, Ed. Sad but true. At some point you have to accept it. Not vote for it, of course, but I can't keep on being horrified.
What's Bercow saying?
m talking about French media,
Do they commonly say things like that? I thought making stuff up and publishing it as fact was Johnson bailiwick. No wonder people don't understand each other.
Wait, the exit polls only sampled from 144 polling stations?
Anyone got a decent link to how exit polls work because I'm struggling to see how this works.
I'm not happy with the prospect of more Tory rule or Brexit. But I listened to a programme on BBC this morning about Lebanon, and the amount of corruption, death and struggle involved in ordinary life there - compared to which the UK is still pretty good, despite the probable election result.
But it’s not about Brexit, of course. An ex-mining town has overnight become true blue Tories just randomly. Not Brexit related at all.
Blyth Valley 99% white so presumably immigration isn't an issue. What is it about Brexit that attracts them?
I'm looking forward to seeing what happens to Bassetlaw (where I grew up in a pit village) and Bolsover. Though not in a good way.
Wait, the exit polls only sampled from 144 polling stations?
Hundreds of seats can just be ignored as they are so easily predicted. Just ask the bookies.
The fatigue is because it wasn’t going anywhere for good reason.
If the election was about Brexit like you say, then you HAVE to galvanise people around your cause.
Corbyn did not do that, he only galvanised people against him - I can't see how that will have won him more votes than supporting remainers in a more forthright manner to counter the fatigue.
It's either about Brexit or it isn't and in both scenarios - Corbyn is either wholly or partly to blame.
Blyth Valley 99% white so presumably immigration isn’t an issue. What is it about Brexit that attracts them?
The promise of something better. Even if it's all a pack of lies.
Blyth Valley 99% white so presumably immigration isn’t an issue. What is it about Brexit that attracts them?
It can't be any worse than what they've had for 25 years and it's possible it might be better?
You know fine well I said months ago that labour should be wary of going against the brexit vote. Blyth Valley, which had the most vociferous MP screaming that it was at risk if labour moved towards remain fell. What evidence do you need?
Labour has been selling a red Brexit which pissed off 2/3 of its voters. The only real life Brits I'm in touch with are lifelong Labour voter and also remainers. They voted Lib Dem this time.
Labour are a Brexit party, that's not what lost them leave votes.
Labour are a Brexit party, that’s not what lost them leave votes.
Of course it lost them Leave votes Ed. But it wasn’t the only thing turning people off Labour. And it’s not just “leave votes” lost, far from it.
Blyth Valley 99% white so presumably immigration isn’t an issue. What is it about Brexit that attracts them?
"The frustrated follow a leader less because of their faith that he is leading them to a promised land than because of their immediate feeling that he is leading them away from their unwanted selves. Surrender to a leader is not a means to an end but a fulfillment. Whither they are led is of secondary importance." - Eric Hoffer, The True Believer: Thoughts On The Nature Of Mass Movements
If the election was about Brexit like you say, then you HAVE to galvanise people around your cause.
Well if you could explain how he was going to galvanise leavers around not leaving and conservatives around labour, you could be the next Cummings.
It was established early on that conservative remainers were going to vote Tory. Other parties Leavers were going to vote leave.
Who could Corbyn galvanise around the opposite of those two things?
I’m looking forward to seeing what happens to Bassetlaw
Here in Bassetlaw you just hear people talking up Boris.
Staggering.
They're obsessed with Brexit. We will go blue despite a really good ground campaign.
My main mistaken judgment here is I thought good policies would cut through Brexit. I'm really struggling with that one. People would sooner see the NHS die on its arse?
I said right at the beginning of the Brexit vote - it has to go full on no deal, and people have to see the consequences. Only then might they be ready for an understanding how they've shot themselves in the foot.
Alan Johnson on fire on ITV - decent man betrayed by his party.
Blyth Valley 99% white so presumably immigration isn’t an issue. What is it about Brexit that attracts them?
Isn't it broadly the case that the more white an area is, the more racist it is?
They've never met a brown person but they've heard that they speak a bit funny and smell, plus they're all over here illegally, simultaneously claiming benefits whilst taking our jobs, so we're probably best off getting rid of them. Oh, apart from Mohammed who runs the corner shop of course, he's alright, it's those other ones we don't like.
Blyth Valley 99% white so presumably immigration isn’t an issue.
I'd bet fear of it is.
Well if you could explain how he was going to galvanise leavers around not leaving and conservatives around labour, you could be the next Cummings.
Stronger more personal attacks on Boris like in the last couple of days, going after his and the Tories lack of empathy and corruption. Corbyn played far too nicely until the last minute.
Strong support for remain.
A Blairite at the helm to poach conservative remain voters.
Put a lid on the Jew bashing early on to stop the perception being that Labour are engaging in pro Muslim identity politics.
A mate of mine was a Blairite political adviser for the Labour party - you jest that if I had a plan then I could be the next Cummings, but the strategy is actually pretty bloody simple.
Alan Johnson on fire on ITV – decent man betrayed by his party.
Other way around in my opinion.
Do they commonly say things like that?
They just quote things that might interest people from the manifestos. I was so surprised when I first heard about some of Labour's policies on Europe 1 that I checked them and Europe 1 had it spot on, it was the policy that seemed incredible.
Nice one- ITV coverage the best at the mo-
Oh I also said that remainers voting for Lib Dem’s would hand victory to Boris. Tory majority in Blyth 1000, 2000 Lib Dem votes, go figure.
Don’t forget the Greens. They also got more votes in Blythe than the Tories won by.
Labour are a Brexit party,
You what? They voted against brexit at every turn. Even magic grandad was only in favour of another referendum. Mostly because a bunch of people said that if they thought leave would win the referendum they would have voted remain. The day after the referendum.
