You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
That pretty much describes most of the house from Jacob Rees mogg on down.
I agree with the Jacob Rees Mogg part, I do however believe that a sizable proportion of our MP's are not actually corrupt individuals, a great deal of them have in actual fact not shown any proclivity towards abusing their position of power. Why can't we choose a leader out of their ranks?
don’t think it means anymore or any less than going to Eton, doing PPE at Oxbridge or Bscimed. It does mean she had the drive to do it on her own, with a child, to improve her chances and that of her child. That says a lot. I have way more respect for someone who goes back to school particularly as an adult, after being unsuccessful at the regular track.
I agree with you to the extent that an Eton and Oxbridge education are not particularly useful when it comes to the world in which Britain now finds itself. I still want a PM who has evidenced a good grip of geopolitics though.
I am not convinced she is PM material - and without meaning to be rude to you cromolyolly, I think you'd have to be willfully blind to believe that 1) She'd win an election and 2) She's the best qualified person in the Labour party to be PM. We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this.
MOst of the Westminster politicians are as corrupt as any caricature of a banana republic. Expenses cheating ( still at it on a huge scale) Second "jobs" that actually are bribes etc etc. almost universal on tory benches, common on the rest.
Its one reason for our dysfunctional system - the blatant corruption of most of them
Cooper - that again just shows how out of touch you are. Ghastly public persona. badly damaged by her association with previous labour administrations. Would be an enormous vote loser. Hated by large sections of the party.
Open your eyes man
IIC cooper and Balls both bought houses on expenses and flipped them. Both of them ie they used expenses to get rich. corrupt as hell
There you go. shamelessly using expenses to enrich themselves. Utterly contemptible.
Problem with your Telegraph link is they are a Tory supporting paper being critical of opposition in a world where the media spin stories for their own gains.
It probably is true but highly likely not the way Telegraph writes its.
We choose to believe the narratives that fit our values and ideologies.
Even the Tories are now saying it's ok to create misinformation - all part of the game.
Or is that just my narrative bias because I dislike the Tories?
. Why can’t we choose a leader out of their ranks?
Depends what you mean exactly, but mostly because we the voters join the process too late and those that rise to the top of their parties don't possess a great deal of those qualities. Presumably they are an impediment to getting to party leadership.
I am not convinced she is PM material – and without meaning to be rude to you cromolyolly, I think you’d have to be willfully blind to believe that 1) She’d win an election and 2) She’s the best qualified person in the Labour party to be PM. We’ll probably have to agree to disagree on this.
I don't really have an opinion on that. Partly because she hasn't really auditioned for the role. My point really was that none of the reasons you put forward for why she wouldn't be any good didn't really speak to any more than your personal prejudices. She is educated but not properly
I still want a PM who has evidenced a good grip of geopolitics though.
Whereas I don't worry too much about that. A good leader knows what they know, and knows what they don't know and recognises those who know more than they ever will and listens to them. That's who I'd want for PM. Don't give a hoot where they went to school or when or what they studied. Or if they even did at all, if they have other qualifications.
We had a guy running the country's finances who didnt have much of a grasp of economics. Except he bought a horse paddock on taxpayers tab and trousered the profits while lecturing everyone else on belt tightening and austerity. So he was no fool. He was a complete **** though. No one ever questioned his qualifications.
The house thing is true about Balls and Cooper, and everything TJ says is correct imo. Also unforgivable is the way she through her tots out of the pram when she lost to Corbyn. So ****ing entitled!
she through her tots out of the pram
Social services shoudl be all over this.
Rusty Spanner
Lots of people have busy lives.
You can find time to inform yourself of current affairs, that’s what the radio is for.
Perhaps in your world people should find the cess pit that is politics interesting?
Perhaps we should just force people to become fake interested? If they don't want to engage we can build a wall to keep them in.. have some reeducation ?
There are plenty of very well educated people who really have no interest in politics and from our perspective there is more important or at least more interesting shit ...
Raybanwomble
All I have is a deep suspicion that something is grossly wrong with the way society is educated and that it’s evidenced by those who are deeply ambivalent towards it and who do not care for “experts”.
Well, quite possibly because the politicians who have no clue about anything but politics then try and jump on a bandwagon they can't understand and treat something like science like politics.
Al Gore is an example: His whole "inconvenient truth" is full of lies... the conclusion is more or less the same though but that's politics? It doesn't matter if he bends the truth or hides some data so long as the conclusions are the same?
jpprestige
The current education system is f***ed. I say this as someone who has taught at all levels, including the university sector, so this isn’t a layman’s opinion.
We’re still using a lightly modified version of an education system that was designed to suit the needs of industrial revolution era Britain. It’s completely unfit for purpose in the postmodern world.
In the big picture the education system has been undermined because it focuses on continually lowering standards and controlling learning to prevent kids from learning "too quickly" when they have to be kept in an education system doing busy work until 18.
You can find time to inform yourself of current affairs, that’s what the radio is for.
Popmaster with Ken Bruce?
Did anyone see the lib dems party political broadcast at the end of channel 4 news last night?
Dear god! It couldn't possibly be any more Waitrose/mumsnet. Absolutely toe-curling
I've been trying to work out whey I find Jo Swinson so monumentally irritating. There are numerous reasons but the main one is that she speaks to people like a primary school teacher talks to a class of 4 year olds. She couldn't actually be any more patronising.
@kelvin
Sorry you asked early (to paraphrase) what is it these Labour/Leave voters expect to be delivered "the day after".
I've tried stating this ... and it's really quite simple but then it's convenient to deny it exists.
Some local FB page has had all the parties posting and I was reading the Labour one....
Background: We voted remain quite convincingly.. our local Tory MP has voted with NRG and our LibDems seem better poised than Labour to unseat him.
Rather satisfyingly the Tory post had a new asshole ripped.... comments are 95% negative.
So one of the remainers claiming to be traditional labour posted on the Labour post.
She cannot bring herself to vote Tory (small blessings) ... but she wrote an essay on the labour post. What I found interesting (or stood out) is why she finds it hard to vote LibDem...
But please don’t get me wrong, the Conservatives are strangling our economy, they are feeding us lies and false promises. They are selling off our resources for their own future personal gain. The NHS, the police force and the Fire service are all at risk with these people at the helm.
I also have issues with the LibDem party and their derogatory way of making a women’s only manifesto. Okay some might believe it is good to highlight what is relevant to women only, what is good to young people, and what is good to disabled. But to me it is saying that The party donot feel that women, Young people and disabled are able to read the main manifesto and see for themselves what is good for them. Where is the men only manifesto?
Unfortunately in this present climate I don’t feel there is a party that represents the nations needs or that can achieve anything that they are promising us.
Perhaps it's partly my own bias but what I see is that people are objecting to being told what they can and can't say/think and to use the "Political Correctness" argument (which is as good a terms as any)...and the above is written by a single mum (claimed) still living with parents because she can't afford to move out.
I’ve been trying to work out whey I find Jo Swinson so monumentally irritatin
She's been over media-trained. Scripted. Not coming from the heart.
Sorry you asked early (to paraphrase) what is it these Labour/Leave voters expect to be delivered “the day after”.
Not Labour voters. Low paid long hours voters who will vote based on wanting Brexit delivered. What is it that they expect Johnson to do for them once he has ‘got Brexit done’ in January?
“Political Correctness”
What-ever.
The straight white men brotherhood will inherit the earth one day, the poor things. On day politicians will listen to them and they will no longer be invisible, the poor things.
What is it that they expect Johnson to do for them once he has ‘got Brexit done’ in January?
Is it something to do with Spitfires?
kelvin
Not Labour voters. Low paid long hours voters who will vote based on wanting Brexit delivered. What is it that they expect Johnson to do for them once he has ‘got Brexit done’ in January?
The right to complain without being PC to issues they have been convinced about due to FB ads. (Is how I see it)
You might laugh or cry but this is the level they have the time or interest for.
Some of these are quite plainly home goals.... lets deport all the NHS workers so we can all get appointments.... not to mention the financial loss... but all they know is they queued for hours to see a GP for 10 minutes and some of the people in front of them looked/sounded like immigrants.
I do however believe that a sizable proportion of our MP’s are not actually corrupt individuals, a great deal of them have in actual fact not shown any proclivity towards abusing their position of power. Why can’t we choose a leader out of their ranks?
Is it because they have more sense than ego?
What-ever.
The straight white men brotherhood will inherit the earth one day, the poor things. On day politicians will listen to them and they will no longer be invisible, the poor things.
The woman taking exception to the LibDem women's manifesto is ... a woman (at least her profile pic is)
She is also complaining about immigration into the borough by commuters ... and our Tory councillors that are pushing studio and 1 bed hovels ... and having been to several council meetings the Tory council leader is using political correctness to justify building 10 story apartments whilst claiming the LibDems and Labour councillors just want to see children out on the street at Christmas....
(If you really care I can find the webcast)
So my point really is your answer ...
"The straight white men brotherhood will inherit the earth one day, the poor things."
you are simply rolling out the PC shut it down....
My personal opinion is that this group have been misled... that an open discussion would have many change their minds over Brexit being some universal answer but PC answers are only confirming their impression that their wishes don't count.
Anyone done the lib-demo's manifesto?
Awaiting Labours' - rumour has it Magic Grandad is typing it out on a Royal Epoch - eh Binnery?
The right to complain without being PC to issues they have been convinced about due to FB ads. (Is how I see it)
Who is stopping them being “un-PC”, and how will that change after January? Perhaps they just want people to like and love them, despite their lack of empathy for others, but it isn’t the EU silently judging them, is it? Even if it is… what changes for them after January? What do they think Johnson will do for them after he’s “got Brexit done”?
Corbyn is up… sounds like he’s reading the words for the first time.
Must… pay… attention…
Come on Kelvin - it doesn't at all.
Sorry, still not engaged the reality filters.
Every… sen… tence… is… br… zzzz.
kelvin
Who is stopping them being “un-PC”, and how will that change after January? Perhaps they just want people to like and love them, despite their lack of empathy for others, but it isn’t the EU silently judging them, is it? Even if it is… what changed for them after January?
I don't have a clue on their answers to 90% of those questions and they make no sense when you look deeper.
I am just repeating what people say... and that this is a pattern I have recognised.
In this case (and one I agree with) the issue of immigration is about mostly white and probably slightly more male people moving into the area to commute to London that puts up house prices and our Tory council leaders obsession with building high rise studio flats.
Both our LibDem and Labour councillors oppose this and when they both said in so many ways this will lead to slum housing the Tory councillor turned this into PC bingo....
Sorry, still not engaged the reality filters.
Every… sen… tence… is… br… zzzz.
Told to talk like because of the non- speedy listeners in our society. Completely deliberate.
Just going through the manifesto - guess what - only one reference about looking into integrating independent schools. All that needless discussion on abolition from day one.
What do they think Johnson will do for them after he’s “got Brexit done”?
Make the country more prosperous and fulfill it's potential
Sort out the NHS
Reduce immigration
That sort of stuff that he has been telling them he would do. Labour have also been telling them stuff that they would do and if you are not the sort of person to take more than 10 seconds to think about it, look into past behaviours etc,. then Johnson is the better bet as he is also getting Brexit done
I thought he was very good. 🙂
Questions now.......
State of Robert Peston - talking down the design of the launch set. Top journalism. Prick.
Top journalism.
I remember plenty of journalists (and us) criticising the design of May’s sets. I’ve not seen this one. Not unusual for journalists to comment on such matters.
I have to say - listening to Corbyn answer the questions live, he has so much information and personal experience to call on, compared to the waffle we hear from the conservatives.
Coming across very well imo
Hmm as a working/ middle class individual I’m getting interested in these policies. Time to understand them properly....
All I have is a deep suspicion that something is grossly wrong with the way society is educated and that it’s evidenced by those who are deeply ambivalent towards it and who do not care for “experts”.
Tom - what and who do you man by "experts" ?
the waffle we hear from the conservatives
It’s their job in this campaign to hide the details of their polices (despite the fact we can see them all around us, they are currently in charge, after all). It’s all obfuscation.
cinnamon girl
what and who do you man by “experts” ?
It's not what/who he means it's the ethos as promogulated by Gove....the short answer is anyone that disagrees but deeper than that it is who governments/ministers/politicians choose to listen to and present themselves as "experts".
I can't comment on political or economics experts but I can comment on science and what is becoming increasingly popular are dumbed down narratives that ignore fact or established theory when inconvenient.
My impression is that the same is going on in politics and economics, I don't know enough to understand the difference.
Rayban
Name me a single non corrupt mp
I remember plenty of journalists (and us) criticising the design of May’s sets. I’ve not seen this one. Not unusual for journalists to comment on such matters.
Still doesn't make it journalism just because it's balanced.
Name me a single non corrupt mp
FFS TJ... give your head a wobble. I know its the done thing to damn them all, but its just lazy and cynical. There are some right idiots, who are the ones who shout the loudest. Usually about Brexit. But I think the majority of MP's are just quietly doing their jobs on behalf of their constituents to the best of their abilities. While copping a heap of abuse because of daft attitudes like that
Our (Labour) MP James Frith is excellent and I don't believe for a second he's corrupt. He's very well thought of locally because he does loads in the community. Our Tory MP we had before him was a grade A **** who we never saw from one election to the next
Back to today, and I'm pretty impressed with the Labour manifesto. Makes a lot of sense and its what this country needs. Theres the obvious question about where they found the money trees but you can say the same about the Tory's at the moment
The question now is how many people can be persuaded its deliverable enough to vote for it
TJ, Ben Bradshaw.
Sarah Wollaston
TJ, when I lived in Corbyn's constituency it was widely known that he gave a third of his income to the local party and when the expenses scandals first erupted, his claim for the year was a couple of reams of A4 paper. Compare that to that fat **** IDS claiming £36 for breakfast.
The question now is how many people can be persuaded its deliverable enough to vote for it
I think that hits the nail on the head...
Theres the obvious question about where they found the money trees but you can say the same about the Tory’s at the moment
You'd think so..... but ultimately that's not what stops people voting Tory ... It should do and given current leadership and Boris' record of delivering NOTHING even more but ???
I'm also asking of Labour is this based on staying in or leaving...
I think for me the ultimate Q is at what point would Labour back off if it turns out it's not working or it's too fast and my concern there is if that can/would be admitted? (based on failure IMHO to admit Corbyn was not the ideal choice)
This kind of shite is starting to seriously **** me off
(apologies for the express links)
Tory minimum wage increase good
Labour minimum wage increase bad
I can’t comment on political or economics experts but I can comment on science and what is becoming increasingly popular are dumbed down narratives that ignore fact or established theory when inconvenient.
Yes. Criticism of vaccine denialism is definitely a dumbed down “science” narrative.
Do you believe that scientific consensus on anthropogenic climate change is a metropolitan liberal elite conspiracy by any chance?
Just going through the manifesto – guess what – only one reference about looking into integrating independent schools. All that needless discussion on abolition from day one.
Very disappointed with this - wanted to see some Mugabe-style vision, and actions, on this fundamental issue.
Science policy appears to sit just below football policy in importance - which isn't bad, tbf, for documents of this type.
stevextc
Perhaps in your world people should find the cess pit that is politics interesting?
I couldn't care less if people find it interesting or not.
But if you don't vote, you have no right to complain.
And if you don't take time to research and understand your voting choices, your deliberate ignorance has consequences for all of us.
There are plenty of very well educated people who really have no interest in politics and from our perspective there is more important or at least more interesting shit …
I know.
Pathetic, isn't it?
You’d think so….. but ultimately that’s not what stops people voting Tory
Do they vote Tory because that they can't stand Corbyn and a LibDem vote is 'wasted'?
It’s not what/who he means it’s the ethos as promogulated by Gove….the short answer is anyone that disagrees but deeper than that it is who governments/ministers/politicians choose to listen to and present themselves as “experts”.
I can’t comment on political or economics experts but I can comment on science and what is becoming increasingly popular are dumbed down narratives that ignore fact or established theory when inconvenient.
My impression is that the same is going on in politics and economics, I don’t know enough to understand the difference.
Thanks for that stevextc, now understand.
Very much agree with your second paragraph, am seeing too much of this in the worlds I live in. Don't get me started on NICE guidelines, have a newly published set to read and reckon I'll be screaming before I've reached the end. Thank god I do my own learning.
Yeah! What the **** do the medical experts at NICE know, right?
Lol
Yeah! What the **** do the medical experts at NICE know, right?
Refuse to listen to patient groups, parrot dogma from the USA/CDC cos they cba'd to think for themselves or commission research in the UK. Tick box medicine FTW.
How's the sixth form poster coming on binners?
They're finished mate. Its actually a series of visuals for all the big screens in the local colleges communal areas.
The colleges are having a real push to get the young people registered to vote. They're running sessions to help the students get their registrations all sorted.
Its really good to see them stressing the importance of voting, and obviously great to be involved in. I actually feel like I'm doing something useful for a change.
Obviously, theres a degree of self-interest as the more young people vote, the less chance the Tory's have 😀
Rusty Spanner
I know.
Pathetic, isn’t it?
That's your opinion ... I find the whole thing pretty much a quagmire of dishonesty.
cinnamon girl
Thanks for that stevextc, now understand.
Very much agree with your second paragraph, am seeing too much of this in the worlds I live in.
That's just my take ... but yep.
To win Labour need to regain the centre ground “Blair votes”
No chance with Corbyn sadly.
Obviously, theres a degree of self-interest as the more young people vote, the less chance the Tory’s have
So, basically, even though you're obviously worse than Hitler and singlehandedly ruining Jeremy's chances of election, it turns out you are actually helping Labour in your area more than most of the diehards on here?
🙂
stevextc
That’s your opinion … I find the whole thing pretty much a quagmire of dishonesty.
It's always going to involve a certain amount of dishonesty, because politics offers so much opportunity for those who wish to abuse power and control for their own ends.
So what are you planning on doing to change it?
You could get involved yourself and make it better.
You could do some research and vote for those who you believe best represent your ideals.
The least you could do is think about the options and vote - if you don't then you are handing power back to the very people you despise.
Living in a democracy brings with it certain responsibilities.
If you choose not to accept those responsibilities you also give up the right to complain.
Anyone gone through the Manifesto in detail yet? Last time (2017) it was the only (uk wide) party manifesto worth reading. I’m expecting the same again this time… but no time to do it justice ‘till the weekend.
Theres the obvious question about where they found the money trees but you can say the same about the Tory’s at the moment
Last time it was costed comprehensively, I'd be surprised if it wasn't this time but I have not checked. The Tories' one isn't afaik.
IFS are sceptical it's all possible:
I did not look for an assessment of the Tories' one.
IFS are sceptical it’s all possible:
https://www.ifs.org.uk/election/2019/article/labour-manifesto-an-initial-reaction-from-ifs-researchers
/blockquote>The Labour Party manifesto offers a very substantial increase in the role of the state, one that is even larger than the big increase offered in their last manifesto.
I'm out. Handing a group of people this incompetent a bigger role in our lives is bananas.
molgrips - tory manifesto not launched yet so no costings available yet.
Best guess for launch date is Sunday.
Handing a group of people this incompetent a bigger role in our lives is bananas.
But currently no-one is bothering to make things better, which is why they are getting worse.
They may not manage it perfectly, but that's less important than the fact that someone wants to manage it. See, if you just leave things alone as Tories like to do, then the rich and powerful abuse the poor and downtrodden. This has always happened. Labour want to prevent that from happening. So they might not get it perfectly right, but at least they are trying to fix things by taking an active role. The Tories won't, because it is literally the entire point of the Tory party not to bother.
If there were two parties both promising to fix things for the worse off, then yes you would be right to compare them. But Tories are not going to fix things for the worse off - they are just going to ignore them and wash their hands, cos that's what they do. Small state.
In fact, the Tories one attempt to change the system that helps people - Universal Credit - is an unmitigated disaster in terms of execution, never mind the fact it is designed to allow benefits to be cut more.
Leaving the current group of people this incompetent the current role in our lives is bananas.
TJ - my local labour MP, Sue Hayman. Pretty sure she isn't corrupt.
Anyway the local Brexit candidate (a retired dentist and investor no less - I'll bet he knows a lot about manufacturing and what made Britain great...) has had one of his minions dodder up my drive and drop off his leaflet.
Lots about supporting the local area - imagine my surprise to note he had his leaflet printed in Bodmin. Which is just about as far away from Workington as you can get and still be in England 🙂 Hohum.
Crikey all these political campaigns ... same old same old ... no wonder this country is going backward.
Bloody hell ... kill off the bloody business rates for SME ... FFS! (Yes, Libdem promises this but they are weird bunch).
" ... Albert Road has been set at £215 per square metre, which is almost twice as much as the average rate."
FFS! Which job worth set the rate in Middlesbrough? This is Middlesbrough ...
Refuse to listen to patient groups, parrot dogma from the USA/CDC cos they cba’d to think for themselves or commission research in the UK. Tick box medicine FTW.
So in short, NICE are wrong because of something you read on the internet.
Those two are jokers ... taking the population for a ride.
You voting for Jo Swinson then Chewy? 😉
Something to cheer you up from Led By Donkeys 😃
https://twitter.com/bydonkeys/status/1197519769890672640?s=21
General election 2019: Labour launches 'radical' manifesto
...including nationalising electriticy and gas, water, Royal Mail and railways.
Shame, for a few days there it looked like Labour might conceivably win a majority
…including nationalising electriticy and gas, water, Royal Mail and railways.
Shame, for a few days there it looked like Labour might conceivably win a majority
😛
Best guess for launch date is Sunday.
No it has already been released https://www.thetorymanifesto.com (Careful it may not be work friendly).
🙂
It's costed as well.
They're going to make themselves a fortune.
On corruption - there is no doubt at all that the majority of MPs are corrupt crooks. Either they start out like that or they get corrupted. There are some honest ones of course - but a tiny minority. Corbyn was one name I had in mind and I was wondering if Rayban could bring himself to praise him 🙂
Mhari Black is another
The overt bribary is now much less than it was but its dressed up as " consultancy fees" " speaking engagements" " Staffing support" " non executive directorships"or the promise of lucrative jobs once voted out or retire
Does anyone here really think the £50 000 to Johnson for a speech was anything but a naked bribe? How about Gove ( I think it was ) getting several thousand pounds an hour in pay from a company?
No - How about Cleggs job with facebook - note there was opportunity to reign in the internet giants during the coalition but it was not taken. Thats an overt payment for sdeeds done.
And so it goes. Balls and ~Cooper - corrupt as hell buying two london houses on expenses Far too many of them do this - enrich themselves at our expense by lying
Then we have all the paid lobbyists who happen to be MPs - al those who are paid by speciual iterests toi make sure the briber gets favourable treatment
Open you eyes and look into it. Its a cesspit of criminality, corrruption and venal pursuit of money
There have been several reports on cleaning up this cesspit of corruption but none been enacted on. Note this from the committee charged with overseeing MPS
The Committee last considered the issue of MPs’ outside interests in it’s 2009 report, MPs’ Expenses and Allowances, at the request of the then Prime Minister. At that time, we recommended that MPs should be able to continue with outside employment, as long as any outside interests were within reasonable limits and there was transparency. However, these recommendations have not been fully acted upon by government and Parliament. Nine years on, this report provides an opportunity for Parliament to act to address this issue, and to prevent further erosion of public trust.
We recommend a package of important reforms to ensure that MPs’ outside interests remain within reasonable limits. We recommend a revision to the Code of Conduct for MPs, so that any outside roles, whether or not they are paid, do not prevent MPs from undertaking the range of duties expected of them in their primary role as an MP.
James Frith - looks fairly clean with a few bits like £1500 worth of hospitality at Gastonbury but overall not bad. Didn't look into london housing for him
Sarah Wollaston Looks pretty squeeky clean. just the usual few thousands bunged herway
Ben Bradshaw the same although not even the usual few thousands. cleanest I have seen