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But I suppose the BBC have to keep the current ruling idiots happy.
The BBC didn’t film it.
The presenter was key to the layout, she said so this morning. She wanted to be make sure neither could avoid eye contact with her, because she expected lots of evasion from them. Perhaps others should have prioritised how it would come across instead.
Anyway, Binners didn’t comment on that I don’t think.
I never said he did. It was a general point about how the reinforcement of stupid stereotypes peddled by the media have the effect they intend. Yet apparently the media aren't the problem, and it isn't an orchestrated campaign designed to influence how people vote? It's not a secret conspiracy, it's basic psychology and PR. You can either be a participant in that, or not.
Yet apparently the media aren’t the problem
Been done to death. Much harder for a Labour leader to cut through in the media. Doesn’t distract from the opinion that Corbyn is very poor at this part of his job (amongst others).
Well you’ve got 3 weeks to decide my punishment for when I deliver Boris his majority.
Will you decide it at conference? Or just ask Len?
Classy behaviour from the tories: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50482637
Hopefully that stunt will backfire.
That's pretty disgusting really. Surely that's got to breach some standard or rules?
Look Cummings has shown that to win that you have to be prepared to ride rough shot over any soft regulations and their watchdogs. Worry about having to pay minor fines or issue insincere apologies after you’ve won. Our country has nothing robust enough in place to keep this kind of thing in check.
Indeed.
And the Labour Party still thinks it’s a local council meeting about planning permission in Tower Hamlets
Well you’ve got 3 weeks to decide my punishment for when I deliver Boris his majority.
Enemy of the workers, so the glorious gulags for you - where you will be rehabilitated.
DazH, the public getting the government they deserve is only part of the story. They also get the opposition they deserve.
I seem to remember you and others got very upset when I stated that I wanted to see the hardest of hard brexits because that’s what the British public deserve. And that it wasn’t politicians who tricked us into Brexit, it was because the British identity held by the public is rotten at it’s core. The press and the politicians simply court that debased national consciousness.
🙂
Sigh..... I agree with Binners.
`That’s pretty disgusting really. Surely that’s got to breach some standard or rules?
Yes and on top of their recent Keir Starmer edit - there should be an apolitical attack on the way the Tories conduct there affairs.
Same as the Republicans - they are the party of lies.
Well you’ve got 3 weeks to decide my punishment for when I deliver Boris his majority.
An intensive understanding for misrepresenting personality over the country's needs 'course'.
If one's medium term goal is to see an independent Scotland.... this is all going swimmingly. Kind of a Disaster Constitutional Change as opposed to Disaster Capitalism.
I actually wouldn't be into Scotch Independence if we had a more representative voting system across the UK - something that forced politicians to work together instead of blaming another party for every single problem and policy.
So binners ranting will change the minds of people on this forum, yeh right!!
I seem to remember you and others got very upset when I stated that I wanted to see the hardest of hard brexits because that’s what the British public deserve.
The difference being of course that when the public is fooled in a GE they get the chance to change their mind a few years later.
it was because the British identity held by the public is rotten at it’s core
Not going to disagree with you here. Is that the fault of the public or the people who lead and influence them though? Nothing will change until the public become more politicised. That won’t happen until politicians start listening to them, even if that means doing stupid stuff that they want.
Brexit and the next ten years of Tory rule will all be a lot easier to accept if you’ve got a big blanket of pious, self-righteous virtue to wrap yourself up in.
That way, nothing is ever your fault
I foresee a massive Tory/Brexit party shaped coalition. Might have to move to Scotland.
Nothing will change until the public become more politicised.
The public HAS become politicised. There is a reason Johnson used every question last night to repeat his new Brexit related lie.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
This is annoying enough:
“Piffle paffle wiffle waffle........rah, rah, rah, erm, erm... get Brexit done.... rah, rah, rah, make Britain great again....... wiffle waffle piffle paffle”.
Lies, lies, lies.
But the excruciating thing is knowing that this tripe from a serial liar and egotistical pillock is going to be good enough. This will be Jezza’s political epitaph:
“You lost to that tosser?”
The public HAS become politicised.
Yep, by populism.
No substance of course, just a general feeling that complex problems can be solved by being bluff and crass and aggressive. This leads to dark places if left unchecked.
kelvin
Of course he isn’t. He’s voting Labour, and pointing out that not nearly enough other people will be because they have the wrong leader, who listens too much to the wrong people. If you’re in a Labour/Tory marginal, please also vote Labour. I wouldn’t advise going out there trying to get people to want Corbyn as PM though, people do not like or trust him. Focus on how vacuous and tub thumping Johnson is instead if you want to get people voting Labour.
The issue here is that Labour are doing sod all to help themselves.
Other than free broadband which sadly but hopefully will swing voters.
It's a sad indictment of our society that the two most, impressive and statesmen-like people who stood before a lectern on ITV last night were a daft wee lassie with a hat full of spiders and a third rate Irish comedian with a cockroach in his ear.
I thought the only person on stage last night that came away looking half professional was Julie Etchingham. I think it's pretty clear the audience thought that both leaders were pretty useless.Even when given an open goal about trust in Johnson, Corbyn failed to take the opportunity to push Johnson into a corner.
Corbyn looked shifty, and Johnson was a gibbering idiot who wouldn't shut up when asked to, and this is our choice for PM? Great
A quick reminder that you are electing your MP, not your PM.
Vote to keep a Tory out of your seat.
Plenty of us are hoping for a hung parliament that results in both of these leaders being moved on by their parties in the medium term.
But the excruciating thing is knowing that this tripe from a serial liar and egotistical pillock is going to be good enough. This will be Jezza’s political epitaph:
“You lost to that tosser?”
We are going through what the US did at their last election.
Rationally speaking, people like Trump and Johnson should be easy to beat, because they talk out of their arse. But that's exactly why they are so hard to beat. They will say ANYThING that people want to hear, because they have no conscience, so those who aren't too bright will just lap it up. So you cannot blame Corbyn all the way here. Beating this kind of candidate is extremely difficult, just ask a seasoned political operator like Clinton.
.Even when given an open goal about trust in Johnson, Corbyn failed to take the opportunity to push Johnson into a corner.
Beyond open goal ... but using the sport's analogy Boris knocked his own stumps off on multiple occasions while Jezza just pretended it didn't happen.
Johnson lies about 40 new hospitals ... and I'm sat waiting for Grandad to rip him a new arsehole....
A quick reminder that you are electing your MP, not your PM.
Thank you Mr Dimbleby 🙂 I'm aware of how voting works...I'm voting Labour, we have perhaps a unique chance to get shot of Craig Whittaker; this is the only thing making this whole shit-show bearable at the moment
Beyond open goal
Or a conscious decision to play the ball not the man?
a unique chance
I think plenty of people who think Whittaker is an awful MP will still turn out and vote for him because of Brexit, where as many other voters will just stay at home. The Cummings playbook neatly distilled into one constituency.
Even when given an open goal about trust in Johnson, Corbyn failed to take the opportunity to push Johnson into a corner.
It wouldn't matter. You can't nail shit to a wall.
So you cannot blame Corbyn all the way here. Beating this kind of candidate is extremely difficult, just ask a seasoned political operator like Clinton.
Could you just run us through exactly what Jezza has been doing for the last 40 years? Before he recently became an MP?
Oh...erm...
Quite an achievement to have spent your entire life doing something and still manage to have absolutely no instinct for it whatsoever and continue to be as hopeless at it as you were 40 years ago when you started. In fact, probably worse as the world moved on but you stayed rooted to the spot. Suspended forever in 1973.
I've a mug of coffee sat in front of me here that is possessed with sharper political instincts than grandad.
Johnson lies about 40 new hospitals … and I’m sat waiting for Grandad to rip him a new arsehole….
Present but not involved. Its a recurring theme. Like he's watching it on telly. It doesn't require a response, does it?
https://twitter.com/frankieboyle/status/1196884475176792065
Yes, yes, Frankie, his appearance is barely worthy of comment...
Corbyn sounds like a dreadful town, dresses like a catalogue model for the Sue Ryder shop and won’t look significantly different when he’s been dead for a week.
Or a conscious decision to play the ball not the man?
This is Boris ... the LIES ARE THE BALL
With such obvious hypocrisy like that, I'm definitely not voting for Frankie Boyle. Not sure of his constituency but clearly he's a right joker.
I blame Brexit on the fact that Ed Miliband couldn't eat a bacon sandwich...
Could you just run us through exactly what Jezza has been doing for the last 40 years?
Not trying to be leader. In fact, he didn't want to be leader, and didn't want to run. The membership elected him leader, cos they wanted a leftie. So is it the membership that's to blame? Or is it the other candidates for not presenting the membership with better left-wing options?
That's what I meant when I said he wasn't elected in a vacuum. We got here (Johnson, Corbyn, Sturgeon) via a long route - lots of things had to happen. It's not productive just to throw shit at Corbyn (especially when you want him elected....)
Re liars - you can call them out all day long. The supporters just won't care (see Trump).
I blame Brexit on the fact that Ed Miliband couldn’t eat a bacon sandwich…
I blame Brexit on the fact that Ed Miliband tried to ride the “Controls on Immigration” wave, setting Labour on the “Freedom Of Movement must end” path that is completely incompatible with any close relationship with the rest of Europe, never mind being a member state of the EU.
Molgrips - you might peel off a few floating votors tho.
Not trying to be leader. In fact, he didn’t want to be leader, and didn’t want to run.
And yet here we are 4 years later and he's even worse at it than when he started. And he was bloody hopeless then.
He lost one election, which is normally when you're ushered rapidly towards the exit. But the sixth formers want him to repeat the exercise just to make sure.
Hey... maybe we could go for the third time lucky? I firmly believe that his common room/PFJ fan club really are that bright. Why not? Len thinks its a good idea. And Len's always right.
Maybe the country will be more ready for socialism after another 5 years of Tory cuts? And we'll be out of the EU by then, so ripe for a left wing revolution, yeah?
Just think..... Ten more years of disgruntled placard waving, moaning about the blood Tory's and general virtue signalling? Result! Just imaging all the protests they can go on and all the online petitions they can sign? Nothing could make them happier.
The rest of us? Not so much. But then we've only ourselves to blame for refusing to see Jeremy as the future, right?
Emma Barnett pulling Tory MP over the coals big time on 5live. (Nigel something: Ribblehead MP)
I think Corbyn's strategy was to sell Labour policy and be positive in response to Johnson's expected strategy of attack Corbyn. Rise above I guess was the intention - but I agree that open goals were missed. It's possible to combine attack and promote own policy - expose bullshit on hospital building then follow up with what Labour will do.
Even on Brexit the line should be - "Tory failure and chaos from referendum to failed deal after failed deal. It's time to give us a go to sort a better deal and give you, the people, the final decision" Corbyn didn't push the 3 years of Tory chaos and failure hard enough
Molgrips – you might peel off a few floating votors tho.
It's more than a few .... 36% of LEAVE voters were labour.... Boris has delivered nothing.. the one thing he claimed to have delivered he self-sabotaged.
That is before you even get to floating voters...
Boring Binners. Change the record! 😆 we got the point 2 years ago.
I think Tory Central Office pays him by the word. 🙂
Could you just run us through exactly what Jezza has been doing for the last 40 years?
Voting against every single piece of pro EU legislation since 1975 IIRC...😉
Boring Binners. Change the record! 😆 we got the point 2 years ago.
On the plus side he does seem to have run out of tired Monty Python references. Queue tired Monty Python image.
Please...please....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50474626
Can an injunction on the contents possibly hold? Apparently there are some interesting conversations...
https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1196754495197339648
Oh, and the irony of Andy Wigmore moaning that Twitter is not following its obligations under EU data protection regulations. 🙂
we got the point 2 years ago
> looks for signs of this <
“He doesn’t have a point. It’s all a media conspiracy. Wait ‘till the public get to see him unfiltered in an hour long head to head against the buffoon leading the Tories… he’ll win the nation over.”
And yet here we are 4 years later and he’s even worse at it than when he started. And he was bloody hopeless then.
Yet he twice beat your favoured candidates. Doesn't say much about your mob, does it?
Well, I changed my mind regarding Corbyn's suitability as leader.
Not sure Binners had anything to do with it though. 🙂
He's perfectly entitled to his onions, but I don't think it helps.
Brexit and the next ten years of Tory rule will all be a lot easier to accept if you’ve got a big blanket of pious, self-righteous virtue to wrap yourself up in.
Or ideally a huge offshore account and a Swiss chalet.
What you define as 'winning' always depends on what electorate you're trying to please and what you're trying to achieve, I suppose.
Most Popular Marxist in the Common Room and Biggest Marrow on the Allotment are something of a hollow victory when all it delivers is Brexit and 10 more years of the Torys, but...
Winning. Great. Savour that sweet taste of victory...
Or ideally a huge offshore account and a Swiss chalet.
And maybe Maltese joint citizenship, obtained for a tidy €1m “investment”.
binners
Subscriber
What you define as ‘winning’ always depends on what electorate you’re trying to please and what you’re trying to achieve, I suppose.Most Popular Marxist in the Common Room and Biggest Marrow on the Allotment are something of a hollow victory when all it delivers Brexit and 10 more years of the Torys, but…
Winning. Great.
I think it's just a game of 1001 ways to mention 6th form or common room in a thread.
We nearly done yet? 😆
I blame Brexit on the fact that Ed Miliband tried to ride the “Controls on Immigration” wave, setting Labour on the “Freedom Of Movement must end” path that is completely incompatible with any close relationship with the rest of Europe, never mind being a member state of the EU.
Can blame that Miliband leadership for a lot, in hindsight - has to be the case when a political party vomits up something like JC as leader, it's an allergic reaction to what it's just eaten.
Miliband ran a confused centrist campaign with a lot of futile pandering to the media, which eviscerated him over the SNP. Lost every seat in Scotland bar one which is huge to this day (although you can't really lay that at Miliband's door directly as it was obv a long term development). Deleting 50 labour seats is self-evidently a massive problem - would have prime Tony Blair sweating let alone JC.
I think Miliband failed to find that clear message to shift the party back towards its roots in a strategic, forward looking way that would have marginalised time-wasters like Corbynski. They ended up seizing their opportunity and we are where we are.
Good summary here if anyone fancies re-visiting the Ed-Stone!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jun/03/undoing-of-ed-miliband-and-how-labour-lost-election
What you define as ‘winning’ always depends on what electorate you’re trying to please and what you’re trying to achieve, I suppose.
Own up: who pressed his reset button?
We nearly done yet? 😆
Yep. Just a few weeks to go and the marxist halfwit will be a footnote in history.
The real question here is how does this election compare to the last?
Some of the shine around corbyn has faded, hes a known entity now so much of his flaws already baked in to peoples opinions
Johnson is marmite, his 'positive attitude' contrasts well with sourpuss May but he is the epitome of eton privelege
polls last time were interesting, as bad as her campaign was May nver lost much (& her numbers dropped before the dementia tax manifesto was announced -18th May- & then declined slowly, but not by much)
But corbyns numbers rose, now he his hampered because the lib dems are doing much better at his expense (tho swinson is actually targeting Tory voters more than labour ones, so she may be helping him)
Johnson had nothing to gain from the debate last night & it seems Corbyn did better
https://twitter.com/jantalipinski/status/1197109940755795969
but can Corbyn make up the same ground he did last time? has Johnson peaked to soon
hes got a big lead, but Yougov showing a 3pt drop in the last week
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1196836856303964166
polls are flawed but they can capture the trends & if the next yougov poll were to show even a small decrease, would be interesting (caveat- kantar simulataneously showed a big jump for tories!)
Emma Barnett pulling Tory MP over the coals big time on 5live. (Nigel something: Ribblehead MP)
that'd be Nigel Evans, my local MP - arch rabid brexiter, Tory water boy, Trump supporter and apologist, high placed in 1922 committee, arrogant, complacent, contempuous to his constituents, all round POS, rumour has it an annoying alcoholic too. Over double the votes the next placed (Labour) candidate got in 2017. So parachuted in from South Wales and a local scourge.
resident of Pendleton and local at the Swan with Two Necks pub, which mystifyingly keeps winning top awards despite it being fairly non descript, the rumour being that he pulls a few strings and pulls a few nobs to make it so
most famous for losing his life savings in legal costs, successfully defending a rape accusation, after having voted against legal aid that would have protected him ohhhh the delicious irony: https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/dec/27/its-completely-wrong-falsely-accused-tory-mp-attacks-legal-aid-cuts
I see it a lot in the tabloids and twitterings, but is Jeremy Corbyn a ‘Marxist’? I realise that (accepted) definitions change and vary with time and trends, but anyone here calling him a ‘Marxist’ care to give the definition of Marxism that you’re working with?
It is seen as an insult from those that wouldn't know Marx if he walked up to them and kissed them
Its pretty simple really. The definition of Marxist is usually applied to people who are repeatedly on the record saying "I'm a Marxist"
The definition of Marxist is usually applied to people who are repeatedly on the record saying “I’m a Marxist”
I look like an idiot now, as wasn’t aware of that. So maybe it’s Corbyn’s definition of ‘Marxist’ that is the question? That is anyone’s guess, or has he laid it out? Assuming his definition is different than that of The Daily Express...
Binners, do you please have a link to where he said ‘I’m a Marxist’?
pulls a few nobs
Ooooh Matron!
Interesting.
Undecided voters gave Jeremy Corbyn a 59-41 per cent lead over Boris Johnson as best performer in last night’s ITV general election leaders’ debate, according to details of YouGov polling.
The two leaders were tied almost neck-and-neck among viewers overall in the survey, with Mr Johnson edging the contest by 51-49 per cent.
As for them being Marxists - for a lot of people, the subtlety of what you would do in a perfect world, versus what you would actually plan to do in the world we actually have is too much.
Me, if I could rebuild the world to my liking I'd nationalise everything essential and do a load else besides, however I realise that's a) not possible and b) too far for most people, so I wouldn't put it in a manifesto because I'm not an idiot. This is what McDonnell means when he says he's a Marxist. He doesn't mean he's going to try and create a Marxist state. This may be confusing for some people but it's how intelligent people talk.
Imagine traveling back in time and telling your 2010 self about the world of 2019.
“…and the Black Death is back, but honestly everything has gone so bat shit crazy that it’s not really on anyone’s radar”
Binners, do you have a link to where he said he was a Marxist?
Of course he hasn't - it's character assassination. There is no distinction between Binners' criticisms of Corbyn and the RW press. See a few weeks ago when he drew up a story of the Labour MP that was hounded out through AS apparently. Well it turns out the said MP stepped down because of allegations of a sexual harassment claim.
Corbyn is a democratic socialist that almost certainly admires Marx.
Afternoon comrade
Are you factchecking me? You should register the Twitter domain name 😀
What facts?
Undecided voters gave Jeremy Corbyn a 59-41 per cent lead over Boris Johnson as best performer in last night’s ITV general election leaders’ debate, according to details of YouGov polling.
The two leaders were tied almost neck-and-neck among viewers overall in the survey, with Mr Johnson edging the contest by 51-49 per cent.
And yet the ITV Poll of 30,000 people (without weighting I believe) went for Corbyn: 78% Johnson 22%
Are you factchecking me? You should register the Twitter domain name
On it. @jozzaNukeTheFacts is available.
I read 138% forJezza
Didn't he get 23% more than Robert Mugabe ever managed in his last leadership election?
This thread is descending into a collection of big fact hunts
Binners, do you have a link to where he said he was a Marxist?
Of course he hasn’t – it’s character assassination
You are engaging in same, before even giving Binners the time to respond?
The state of this thread at this point is really mirroring what I see in the tabloids and twitters - ie name-calling and unexamined rhetoric. Depressing.
If you just have a google, there's loads of interviews of Corbyn giving chapter and verse about his admiraion for Marx. Same with John McDonnel. Both big fans
And thats fine, if thats what you want. But its never going to get you elected anywhere outside Bolivia. In fact, not even in Bolivia.
Because getting enough people to vote for it isn't really feasible when you're asking them to buy into the idea of free-market capitalism as a failed project, then advocating Marxism as the answer. An idea who's credibility came down with the Berlin wall
The labour party's present polling- in the face of a government doing its upmost to turn everyone off the idea of the free market - reflects how many people think that Marxism is a credible stance.
Most of his own MP's don't
Corbyn hasn’t said he’s a Marxist. McDonnell has IIRC.
A lot of the suspicion with Corbyn comes about because of his team of advisors, especially Murray & Milne.
binners
Subscriber
If you just have a google, there’s loads of interviews of Corbyn giving chapter and verse about his admiraion for Marx. Same with John McDonnel. Both big fansAnd thats fine, if thats what you want. But its never going to get you elected anywhere outside Bolivia. In fact, not even in Bolivia.
Because getting enough people to vote for it isn’t really feasible when you’re asking them to buy into the idea of free-market capitalism as a failed project, then advocating Marxism as the answer. An idea who’s credibility came down with the Berlin wall
The labour party’s present polling- in the face of a government doing its upmost to turn everyone off the idea of the free market – reflects how many people think that Marxism is a credible stance.
Most of his own MP’s don’t
Calling corbyn a marxist is pretty much engaging in 6th form politics, just fyi.
Can we call Andrew Murray a marxist? Or do the reality filters keep that nugget out as well?
Can we call Andrew Murray a marxist? Or do the reality filters keep that nugget out as well?
Surely it's only fair to see how he does in the Davis cup before calling him names!!