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Yeah Daz... it's everybody else's fault apart from the sainted Jeremy, isn't it?
He lost an election against a hopeless May during peak Corbyn and since then it's been the law of diminishing returns as he becomes even less appealing with his endless dithering and inaction, even against this shambolic government
The centrist/blairite scum/whatever rump of the party is completely excluded from the clique around the leader. As are even most of his disciples So what exactly do you expect them to do?
I’m not going to call them tories, but you can see why some come to that conclusion when they do everything in their power to support them.
That doesn't sound at all like the paranoid, bunker mentality constantly used to describe the Corbyn clique, does it?
Nope, all Corbyn does is guarantee failure
You can't guarantee anything like this.
We are in difficult times - the idea that changing the leader would all of sudden overturn all the issues and splits we have just doesn't compute.
Anyone who fails to swear allegiance in blood to St Jeremy and not see him as some kind of anointed deity is immediately defined as ‘the enemy’ and then treated with open hostility.
That's just a comic strip view of reality. I see more poison coming from the middle ground actually than a few passionate supporters who's voices are constantly marginalised.
How many times have we heard Corbyn is finished etc? Repetition confuses fact and fantasy.
I see so much stuff on here that has been drawn from Twitter and the papers (Guardian's opinion columns a good example) and passed off as their own opinion...
the idea that changing the leader would all of sudden overturn all the issues and splits we have just doesn’t compute.
It'd certainly be a pretty decent start.
If labour got rid of grandad tomorrow, and put anyone up as a replacement... literally anyone who looked vagually competent, and not like they spent last night sleeping in a hedge after a busy day handing out the Socialist Worker... what do you think the immediate effect on the polls would be?
just give us some ‘who, when and where’
John MacDonnell, May 2003, London:
"It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table."
John_McDonnell, now, Hayes, Middlesex:
"In his study at Hayes, McDonnell has a plaque presented to him by Gerry Kelly dedicated to the "H-Block Martyrs 1981", referring to those who died during the 1981 Irish hunger strike."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McDonnell
The Peoples Vote campaign have hundreds of thousands of politically motivated people attend each march and the chants of “Where’s Jeremy Corbyn” were ever present. Has Jeremy had 100 000’s attend one of his jamboree’s?
Given that Dianne Abbot needed police protection at the March and looked visibly terrified I can't say I blame him for staying well away. As useless as he is I don't think lynching is the answer.
It’s always the same. ” Look at the state of him….he looks like a tramp” No matter what he says, she can’t see past that.
Honestly your wife is this shallow? What about Bojo's hair? JC looks smarter than Bojo 90% of the time.
I agree with Binners. We know what JC is about, he has a rock solid foundation but he needs to reach out to business, to the aspirational middle classes, court the armed forces etc, it wouldn't be difficult nor really require much if any change in policies.
Honestly your wife is this shallow?
No, she's way more intelligent and thoughtful than i'll ever be but it's an instinctive gut reaction to seeing a manky scarecrow masquerading as a contender for PM.
What about Bojo’s hair?
He can pull it off because he at least looks like he's had a wash, is superficially charming and always wears nice clothes, albeit (allegedly deliberately) ill fitting.
in the event of no party gaining an overall majority in the GE, a 2nd brexit, legally binding, referendum is immediately called
I'm pretty much opposed to both referendums in general and a second referendum. ....but I think that idea is superb.
In a single issue GE both the tories and Labour stand to lose a good % of their vote to the BP.
...and to the libdems. Hence both need Brexit before an election. Not looking like it's going to happen though.
What about Bojo’s hair? JC looks smarter than Bojo 90% of the time.
True, but this is because this is a cartoonish caricature that Johnson has spent decades constructing and honing. It's ridiculously contrived but it serves him well as it disguises his true personality and intentions. As Eddie Meir accurately pointed out, he's 'a nasty piece of work', a self-serving narcissist who gets away with all kinds of shit by people sayin 'oh, that's; just Boris'
Everyone, including journalists simply refer to him as 'Boris'. That alone is probably worth 5 points in the polls
True, but this is because this is a cartoonish caricature that Johnson has spent decades constructing and honing. It’s ridiculously contrived but it serves him well as it disguises his true personality and intentions. As Eddie Meir accurately pointed out, he’s ‘a nasty piece of work’, a self-serving narcissist who gets away with all kinds of shit by people sayin ‘oh, that’s; just Boris’
No crap .... and that's hardly even starting ... and for what it's worth Corbyn actually seems like a nice guy and honest... (as was Micheal Foot)... but he believes in Red Unicorns... which to me is just a honest version of Leave... I think he's straight up and he believes but it requires the same level of "just believe" as Brexit...
That said, I'd still vote for him if I thought he'd have any chance... except it would be pointless. (Both locally and nationally)
I wonder what the balance is betwene the number of people saying 'I woud vote labour if it wasn't for Corbyn being leader' and the number of people saying @I would vote Tory if it wasn't fro Boris'?
While I'm sure its more people on the labour half, I think Boris does put lots of normal, politically ambivalent, people off the tories.
A GE eh 🤷♂️
Time to get rid of the torytards 🤹♂️👊
While I’m sure its more people on the labour half, I think Boris does put lots of normal, politically ambivalent, people off the tories.
I don't think it's as many as it should be or you'd think....
Most of those I'd guess were ambivalent on party are vocal on Brexit ... his lying doesn't even seem to bother them...???
I've bothered to challenge some and most just say "...but it could be true"....
” Look at the state of him….he looks like a tramp”
eh?
In fairness, Laura has been in the wind for a bit
There’s looking scruffy, then there’s looking like a homeless Jimmy Saville...
Ha! Just thought of another rather difficult position lyingblowhard is in...
To set a GE off, he has to approach the Queen and dissolve parliament..
I bet she’s itching to see the lying gonk stand once again and lie to her face...
Imagine it for a moment:
LBH: errr, wobble fubble erm, flud fludding wobble..
HMQ: what are you mumbling about now LBH? Speak up and clearly so I can understand a single word you are saying For Gods Sake!
LBH: dissolve flud, wobble, dribble, fart, flud...
HMQ: I don’t believe you, come back when you can tell the truth ...
LBH: flud, dibble, flib, fubbber, fart...
🤷♂️🤪😡
There’s looking scruffy, then there’s looking like a homeless Jimmy Saville…
" Look what I got off Gumtree mate,bargain"
it’s everybody else’s fault apart from the sainted Jeremy, isn’t it?
Not everyone else's, just those who actively do everything they can to prevent him winning, and sadly there are many in the PLP who are doing just that. Last week a lot of them voted for Boris's deal. I've no doubt they'll vote against having an election when Corbyn directs them to do the opposite. The bottom line is that they prefer Johnson to Corbyn, so they can drop the faux-outrage when they are called out on it.
those who actively do everything they can to prevent him winning, and sadly there are many in the PLP who are doing just that… The bottom line is that they prefer Johnson to Corbyn…
Are you honestly claiming there are lots of Labour MPs that would rather have Johnson as PM than Corbyn? Even Binners doesn’t distrust him that much. What do they know?
Not everyone else’s, just those who actively do everything they can to prevent him winning, and sadly there are many in the PLP who are doing just that. Last week a lot of them voted for Boris’s deal.
Hang on voting for the deal is what Corbyn wanted/needed because he needs Brexit behind us just as Boris does. The reason they could vote for the deal is because he made it clear there would be no career repercussions because he needed then to do it.
I'm not saying COrbyn has won over the PLP at all but on this issue they are helping him not hindering him.
I’ve no doubt they’ll vote against having an election when Corbyn directs them to do the opposite.
It's less clear cut, but probably the same argument applies since the opposition want to delay an election for as long as possible.
Not everyone else’s, just those who actively do everything they can to prevent him winning, and sadly there are many in the PLP who are doing just that.
Fairly standard paranoid, bunker mentality nonsense, I'm afraid
Last week a lot of them voted for Boris’s deal.
Quite a few hardline Corbynites did too. It was that North Eastern caricature Corbynite MP, in a candid comment, who pointed out that if he hadn't have found himself as the accidental leader, then life-long Lexiteers Jeremy and John MacDonnell would have done too, as they have voted against every single other piece of pro-EU legislation in the past, spanning decades
The bottom line is that they prefer Johnson to Corbyn.
Seriously? You genuinely think that most Labour MP's would prefer to see Boris Johnson in number 10 than Corbyn? You actually believe that?
I refer you to the previous comment about paranoid, bunker mentality nonsense
It's like the last US election, the two front runners are the only candidates who could even feasibly lose to someone as unelectable as their opposition.
The Polls will be wrong in the same way they were in 2017, because in theory lots of people will vote for LD, Green, Brex etc, but when it comes to marking the box they know that voting for a party that can't win, gives a vote for the party they least want that can.
If Labour pulled a quick switcharoo and appointed a more pro-EU, Centrist Leader, they'd walk it. Yeah every card carrying Socialist will be wailing about 'Red Tories' and all that bullshit, but they ain't going to vote for Boris, Farage or Swinson in protest because they're even more 'Tory'.
The Tories can't do that, if they go more central they'll lose to Brex party, if they go more right they'll lose to the LD. They're supposed to be the party of business and economics, but they're really crap at that, they're the party of Little Britain.
The LDs will claw back their post-coalition loses, but if we don't get a clear majority (we won't) they who do they work with? Labour? Labour has been sticking the boot into them for months very publicly, they're ideologically opposed to the Tories now and well, they will remember what happened last time.
Labour (well most of them) and the LDs are right, there's not much to gain from a GE at the moment, they should have ended this shit with a VONC by now. I'd guess Labour aren't willing to accept other ideologies dilute the purity of their beliefs to work with the LDs and SNP.
Boris Bench.
Boris Bridge.
Boris Bus.
Boris Brexit.
Boris Blunder.
Boris Balloon.
Slips off the tongue and straight into the papers.
Does Jeremy have an equally alliterative name? No. Instead, all the gardening jibes stick, and he is easily confused with Bernard Cribbins.
It's all really very superficial but the general public are fickle twonks who have but the merest passing of an understanding of any those boring political things and will vote based on who looks like a funny chap whose name they can remember after a short walk into the polling booth.
P-Jay - Nail, head.
Does Jeremy have an equally alliterative name? No. Instead, all the gardening jibes stick, and he is easily confused with Bernard Cribbins.
He'll never be half the man Cribbins is and I'll thank you never to associate them in that way again please.
and he is easily confused with Bernard Cribbins.
It's easy to tell them apart.
One is a comedian who occasionally appears on TV round about teatime to say silly things and tell made up stories and the other one is Bernard Cribbins.
I live in a hardcore Labour constituency. It's been Labour for as long as they've existed, and it will most likely be Labour after an election (though this is the first time I've had any doubt...)
The local Facebook groups are venomous when it comes to Corbyn. As far as they're concerned, he's an antisemitic, terrorist sympathising, Marxist, and that's that.
Regardless of his capability, he's damaged goods when it comes to politics. The media killed him off a long time ago.
For anyone with young kids Bernard Cribbins reading Winnie the Pooh is off the charts good, his Wombles is also good.
For anyone with young kids Bernard Cribbins reading Winnie the Pooh is off the charts good, his Wombles is also good.
Old Jack's Boat is the nuggets too.
I can't believe he's 90, bless 'im.
Cribbins is a legend.
114 Jackanory appearances including ,most memorably for me, the Hobbit.
114 Jackanory appearances and I bet he never once mentioned Bobby Sands.
He did 'Cockneys versus Zombies' too. Maybe not his finest film, but was quite recent.
114 Jackanory appearances and I bet he never once mentioned Bobby Sands.
Well, there was that time when Tufty discovered that Willie Weasel was locked in his mum's shed, smeared in his own shit, refusing to go to the ice cream van.......
Cribbins to lead a Government of National Unity, that's the whole problem sorted, everyone will start being nice to everyone else once he's in charge.
I like to watch the clip of him (Cribbins, not Corbyn) on Buzzcocks, he's so wonderfully self-aware, warm and just stupidly funny.
+1 to the love for Cribbins. Easily the best character in "Jack's Boat".
Will it really be a 2019 GE?
what if the EU offer a 6 month extension? Im not sure that we will sort anything in 3 months, especially with Xmas in the middle
I would just give 8 years and say "come back when you are ready and stop wasting our time"
The A50 time limit also needs to now be set at 10 years rather than 2 just in case any other country is stupid enough to waster their time and money on it.
Lots of poeple, including electoral commision saying 12th December very difficult to acheive for a host of reasons. Nothing is going to get done in parliment till election, so seems to me that shutting up shop asap and election on 5th makes sense.
If its not agreed in 11 days
it will be a GE in Feb
Hmm let's see. Live in the south. Have a well paid job. Dislike the sponging poor. Yep will be voting tory or bp depending on if they can sort Brexit.
Oh noez I must be a massive troll for not loving labour..
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scotroutes - that's very naughty
Are you honestly claiming there are lots of Labour MPs that would rather have Johnson as PM than Corbyn?
No I’m saying their actions demonstrate that may be the case. Whether intentional or not that will be the end result. There was a short interlude in the wake of the 2017 election when they admitted they might be wrong, but since then they latched on to brexit as something they could use to beat him with, and now the end result will not only be a Tory PM, but a Tory brexit.
but since then they latched on to brexit as something they could use to beat him with, and now the end result will not only be a Tory PM, but a Tory brexit.
Not everything is a conspiracy to take down Corbyn
It's just possible that they thought brexit, especially the version we were getting was really bad deal
especially the version we were getting was really bad deal
funny how many of them voted for it then.
Paranoid
Bunker
Mentality
What would Bernard do?
He’d probably have made a better job of leader of the opposition than grandad 😉
The sad thing about this is that it is likely to the Brexit election when it should really be about the climate catastrophe.
The sad thing about this is that it is likely to the Brexit election when it should really be about the climate catastrophe.
Hate to break it to you, but the next 2 elections will be about brexit, we got another Dr are of this shitshow to go!!!
The sad thing about this is that it is likely to the Brexit election when it should really be about the climate catastrophe.
This is true.
I’m sure links between those who wanted the referendum, and then campaigned for leave, to groups that either deny climate change is a problem, or know that it is but still want the focus kept on increasing the use of climate damaging fuels, are purely coincidental.
Good article from the Grauniad.
Jonathon Freedland asking the same question most of us outside the common room have been asking for the last two years
The question for labour: why are you sticking with Jeremy Corbyn?
We all know the answer, of course.
Because the People’s Front of Judea will never ditch Reg. but the truth is that the Labour Party under Reg is a political backwater. A failed experiment. A voter-repelling cult that’s about to gift the Tory’s five more years, virtually unopposed to do what the hell they like
But as long as everyone in the common room keeps believing in the socialist utopia that’s just around the corner...
Last two years?
Lets see Freedland coming up to the 2017 election.
2017 variant
Still I am sure Cumming and co will look forward to the useful idiots being more dedicated to attacking anyone vaguely leftwing whilst letting the hard right get away with it. Best shown by the absolute dedication to turning every ****ing thread into an attack on Corbyn.
I look forward to some superb"comrade" or hilarious screenshot in response demonstrating the absolute lack of self awareness from someone dribbling out "common room" and "sixth form" unless I guess its a freudian acknowledgement of their own failings.
Even the Labour Party don't think Corbyn is a winner or they'd be champing at the bit for a GE.
The problem with a General Election would exactly be that it shouldn't be a de facto Referendum.
We arse about tit find ourselves in it again.
It will almost certainly bring us back to where we were.
Then what do you do?
Mind
In the week that Franco has been disinterred it would be well to remember that there are those that carry his coffin and mourn for him.
We need to really think about bringing people with us now.
Good article from the Grauniad.
Ha ha. How predictable! Jonathan 'King of the Centrist dullards' Freedland and his identi-kit Corbyn articles. Great sleeping material.
I read your Guardian overload's article before I saw it posted here (and knew it would be) and my memory went back to 2017 when he wrote the 'exact' same article about Corbyn then.
Here's one of JF's failed maulings of Corbyn before the 2017 GE.
No more excuses: Jeremy Corbyn is to blame for this meltdown
A vote share of 27% he said... (Was 40)
The centrists are very much the cult here because Corbyn doesn't subscribe to their view of 'some of us did okay' Labour; so they perpetuate their fixations on taking him down with the same combination of innacurate predictions and frustrated Waitrose car park space ranting.
Filling forums with repeated anti-Corbyn bile.
Give us something new Binners.
Even the Labour Party don’t think Corbyn is a winner
It baffles me how he is still the leader.
I can only assume he is holding them to ransom somehow..does he have some damming information on some members? I cant understand anybody in that party who thinks having him there, in that capacity is a good idea!?
(Oh Dissonnace beat me to it.)
It baffles me how he is still the leader.
Because he got almost double the votes to his next nearest challenger in 2016.
It ain't hard.
The problem with a General Election would exactly be that it shouldn’t be a de facto Referendum.
That's what it will be and that's exactly what it should be in a representative democracy with one issue being overwhelmingly more important than all the others. Referendums are completely unhelpful for all the reasons we've analysed (and lived through) over the last three years.
In contrast as long as the coming election arrives before Brexit the Leave vote will be split Tory/BP and the Libdems have the monopoly on the remain vote. Libdems are already neck and neck with labour in the Polls with an entire 50pc or the electorate looking to vote for a remain party.
(The one exception to all the above being PP's idea of a Referendum in the event of a hung parliament, in which case a case could be made against a third ref except in the same circumstances which might not happen.)
but the truth is that the Labour Party under Reg is a political backwater. A failed experiment.
Nope. The change to a proper Labour party which came with Corbyn was a good one and is still popular. Having a leader who the press destroyed a few years ago and continue to destroy and that a lot of people don't like is the problem.
Get a good leader who is good on TV and can actually get the message across and a lot more people will get as far as hearing about the policies that would actually help them. They would still have the rather tricky Brexit problem to solve though.
Because he got almost double the votes to his next nearest challenger in 2016.
It ain’t hard.
err the key word is ‘still’...
Come on, it aint hard
err the key word is ‘still’…
Come on, it aint hard
Well given there hasn't been a leadership challenge since ...
Aye, we all know democracy ended in 2016 (2014 for viewers in Scotland).
Even the Labour Party don’t think Corbyn is a winner or they’d be champing at the bit for a GE.
Actually the real reason is probably cos they don’t trust Boris ( quite rightly imho ) .... Once no deal Brexit is off the table they have said he’ll get his GE
And hopefully lose his seat as a result 🤣🤣
So do you lot seriously believe that Corbyn can win the upcoming general election? That a labour majority is a realistic proposition?
Because to me, there’s a very good reason that Joris Bohnson is doing everything in his power to engineer a general election as soon as possible.
Because looking across the despatch box he’ll have the same feeling that Pep Guardiola will have had watching Southamptons 9-nil capitulation last night, and knowing you’ve got them next game.
And most labour MPs look like they’re relishing the prospect of an election about as much as Ralph Hasenhuttl will be relishing his trip to the Ethiad
Because to me, there’s a very good reason that Joris Bohnson is doing everything in his power to engineer a general election as soon as possible.
Exactly but also because he can't be trusted. Whatever Boris wants, do the opposite.
Actually the real reason is probably cos they don’t trust Boris
So why not hold an election get into power and make some changes then...
Oh hang on, its because the gutless bearded ****t knows his party will be all but wiped out.
What's gutless about avoiding a fight you suspect you won't win?
What’s gutless about avoiding a fight you suspect you won’t win?
Nothing. But you have to then put yourself in a position where you can win. And that is where it all goes wrong for Labour. They have the wrong leader and truly awful policies. I think they are done.
What’s gutless about avoiding a fight you suspect you won’t win?
Given that The Jezziah has been demanding a general election on a daily basis for the last year or so...
Whatever Boris [says he] wants, do the opposite.
Careful. Risky to think quite so simply. The timing of the next election is a real minefield. Still going to be 2020 I suspect. It should have been this summer.
Truly awful policies, yes you’re quite correct the few below sound dogshit, let’s continue the right wing race to the bottom so beloved of Patel, ids, Jrm and the other head the balls;
Labour’s economic strategy is about delivering a fairer, more prosperous society for the many, not just the few.
We will measure our economic success not by the number of billionaires, but by the ability of our people to live richer lives.
Labour will invest in our NHS, to give patients the modern, well-resourced services they need for the 21st century. Labour will ensure that NHS patients get the world-class quality of care they need and that staff are able to deliver the standards that patients expect.
Labour will continue to ensure a woman’s right to choose a safe, legal abortion – and we will work with the Assembly to extend that right to women in Northern Ireland.
It utterly baffles me why Starmer isn't Labour leader.
It has to be Jeremy
Nobody can remeber quite why any more
But it just does!
OK?!
It's not rocket science. Get someone who isn't controversial or a non-committal idiot and who seems professional who would appeal to more people outside of their party bubbles. It just seems both main parties are cutting off their noses etc etc. I guess there's politics within politics!
Labour’s economic strategy is about delivering a fairer, more prosperous society for the many, not just the few.
Is that you Diane?, come on own up!
But seriously it all sounds too good to be true and probably is. But again, why not hold an election, those policies will be sure to win hearts and minds, Labour must surely be onto a winner.
Come on beardy give us an election, show the country what your party is made of!!
(a lot of sh@te if you ask me)
There's a lot to be said for delaying an election just to be able to watch johnson swinging ineffectually in the wind, making one error after another.
But it would be a better strategy if labour were not so far behind in the polls.
Truly awful policies, yes you’re quite correct the few below sound dogshit,
Those arent really policies, they are slogans, or hopes. Having a written description of how to get there would be a policy. Which is where current Labour falls down.
Oh hang on, its because the gutless bearded ****t knows his party will be all but wiped out.
Actually it’s cos they don’t trust the blonde lying **** in no10 not to connive some sort of no deal Brexit while the politicians are all on the election trail,
Don’t forget no deal is the default position if the rest of the EU deny an extension,
And a no deal is exactly what the blond in no 10 and his rich cronies want so they can screw the rest of us good n proper 🤮