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That democratic dashboard - it does not seem to be giving predictions in my area or am I missing something? Where are the predictions?
I agree Rayban - both Scandinavia and Corbyn are working in the european SOCIAL DEMOCRATIC tradition. None of them are true socialists
However is a simple fact that Scandenavia have higher taxes than the UK and than corbyn is wanting, higher benefit rates, are more egalitarian, keep most of their essential industry and services under democratic control
I don't think you actually understand the difference between social democracy and socialism
Authoritarian?
yes its really Authoritarian to keep people who work against you in senior positions, to allow debate, to allow the membership to make policy
so go on - one tiny example of Corbyn being authoritarian?
Jeepers you do not half talk some pish and boy are you so right wing compared to where you think you are
No, I don’t need to produce a policity statement – because people like Corbyn and Farage aren’t that **** stupid
Ah yes of course the lack of evidence is evidence itself. A line well liked by authoritarian types. Sure you arent projecting your own failings onto others?
Farage, of course, has clearly demonstrated his authoritarian leanings by setting up his company, sorry, party in a way which gives him total control. Whereas Corbyn has done what exactly?
How has he dealt with internal dissent? How many people has he forced out like Johnson has?
See how easy it is to provide evidence in those cases it is true?
If the way a party leader leads his MPs is evidence of their political stance, everything is a totalitarian dictatorship. That's how political parties work.
Like when Boris withdrew the whip from people who disagreed with him. Doesn't translate outside the party though. It's not like he's gonna hunt down voters who didn't vote for hi and kick them out of the country...
Jeepers you do not half talk some pish and boy are you so right wing compared to where you think you are
Classic CPB/Momentum tactic, accuse all those criticizing Corbyn or those holding New Labour positions as being right wing stooges.
so go on – one tiny example of Corbyn being authoritarian?
I've given them.
However is a simple fact that Scandenavia have higher taxes than the UK and than corbyn is wanting, higher benefit rates, are more egalitarian, keep most of their essential industry and services under democratic control
I don’t think you actually understand the difference between social democracy and socialism
* "are more egalitarian" - but no minimum wage?
* "keep most of their essential industry and services under democratic control" - but yet have a more heavily privatized healthcare system than the UK, privatized rail industry, privatized education using school vouchers (proper conservative policy that is), privatised welfare system.....
It's you who doesn't understand the Swedish model, because it is NOTHING like what Corbyn is offering.
Here's a list of the various companies they have privatized, including many of strategic national importance.
ASEA-ATOM (1981) - sold to Asea
Luxor AB (1984)
SSAB (1986–1994)
UV Shipping (1988)
1990s
AssiDomän
Celsius
Cementa
Enator
Företagskapital
Industrikredit AB
Lantbrukskredit AB
Nordbanken (partial)
OKPetroleum
Pharmacia
PharmaciaUpjohn
SAKAB
SAQ Kontrol
SBL Vaccin
SEMKO
SSAB (wholly privatised in 1994)
Stadshypotek AB
Svalöf
Svensk Fastighetsvärdering
Svenska Statens Språkresor AB
Swedish Real Estate Valuation Corp
VPC AB
2000s
Celsius AB
Grängesbergs Gruvor
Kurortsverksamhet
Nordbanken
OMX - stock exchange - shares sold to Borse Dubai for 2.1 billion SEK.[13]
SAKAB
SGAB
Svenska Lagerhus
Svenska
Vin & Sprit - sold to Pernod Ricard for 5.626 billion euro[14]
2010s
Nordea (19.5% owned by Swedish government)[15]
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/05/sweden-private-profit-improves-services
Ah yes of course the lack of evidence is evidence itself. A line well liked by authoritarian types. Sure you arent projecting your own failings onto others?
Farage, of course, has clearly demonstrated his authoritarian leanings by setting up his company, sorry, party in a way which gives him total control. Whereas Corbyn has done what exactly?
How has he dealt with internal dissent? How many people has he forced out like Johnson has?See how easy it is to provide evidence in those cases it is true?
If Corbyn wasn't a hard left authoritarian, he wouldn't keep close advisers who were.
but yet have a more heavily privatized healthcare system than the UK, privatized rail industry, privatized education using school vouchers (proper conservative policy that is), privatsied welfare system…..
All of which are pretty new in the grand scheme of things. So lets give them a few years to see how they impact the system.
Remember the tories great sell of the public housing on the cheap gave a short term impression of success but now home ownership is dropping and costs have skyrocketed.
All of which are pretty new in the grand scheme of things. So lets give them a few years to see how they impact the system.
Remember the tories great sell of the public housing on the cheap gave a short term impression of success but now home ownership is dropping and costs have skyrocketed.
They started doing all of these things decades ago, I might add - because the original model wasn't working.
Here’s a list of the various companies they have privatized,
But they still have some state owned companies? It's almost as if some kind of balance between state and private enterprise is needed?! I wonder who'd be proposing that?
I believe you NEED a fair amount of private enterprise. But I don't think anyone should profit from essential services. Which would mean renationalising a lot, but it's not full socialism.
You have not given a single example of Corbyn being authoritarian. You have claimned he is but as usual when you are pushed to provide evidence for your assertions you are completely unable to do so
I am no Corbyn fan nor and I any type of socialist. I am a liberal Green which oddly enough is a rather more authoritarian position than Democratic socialism Its just I hate people making up stuff to reinforce your position and I am afraid you really have outed yourself as right wing with your attitudes.
so go on - a tiny little bit of evidence of Corbyn being authoritarian? Just a tiny bit? You know silencing dissenters, chucking people out of the party etc etc
How about naming a single labour policy ( a real one) that is not firmly inthe european social democratic tradition -
so one tiny bit of evidence or one tiny little policy
If the way a party leader leads his MPs is evidence of their political stance, everything is a totalitarian dictatorship. That’s how political parties work.
Like when Boris withdrew the whip from people who disagreed with him. Doesn’t translate outside the party though. It’s not like he’s gonna hunt down voters who didn’t vote for hi and kick them out of the country…
Wasn't this the chap that prorogued parliament and who was accused of being an enti-democratic demagogue?
I am no Corbyn fan nor and I any type of socialist. Its just I hate people making up stuff to reinforce your position adn I am afraid you really have outed yourself as right wing with yur attitudes.
so go on – a tiny little bit of evidence of Corbyn being authoritarian? Just a tiny bit? You know silencing dissenters, chucking people out of the party etc etc
Like you do by constantly comparing Corbyn to a Swedish model that you have no understanding of?
so go on – a tiny little bit of evidence of Corbyn being authoritarian? Just a tiny bit? You know silencing dissenters, chucking people out of the party etc
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/momentums-purge-of-the-blairites-dddjvrr96
How about naming a single labour policy ( a real one) that is not firmly inthe european social democratic tradition –
Firstly, there is no one "european social democratic tradition" and second of all - that era failed and died in the 80s/90s.
tjagain
Member
Errmmm – no – they are social democratic – surprisingly enough like Corbyns labour which follows the nordic / European social democratic tradition very closely Most of Scandinavia remains at least as far to the left as Corbyn. Most of Scandinavia does not follow unfettered neoliberalism either. Where do you think the taking money out of private companies to buy shares to give to workers came from?
Most of Scandinavia has much higher taxation than the UK, Much higher benefit rates, much more worker protection, much higher environmental standards and much more egalitarian societies
Friend of mine who is Finnish has just returned to the UK after having moved the family to Finland, with the intention of it being a permanent move. The main reason they didn't stay was that taxation was so high that they had far less money than over here and they consequently were having to work much harder to makes end meet. Hardly some sort of socialist paradise, eh?
I should add that she's a social worker, so not one of your greedy capitalists.
JP
How much more evidence do you need?
Sigh. You dont get this providing evidence thing do you?
Lets just take your claim about how those dissenters were "dealt with". You mean by not having the whip withdrawn or similar?
Speaking of evidence. Have you looked at what else Dorfman has written? Do you feel someone who believes that apparently greedy businesses cant exploit workers because they will switch to another business is going to be a reliable source?
Its good to see on a day where Johnson has been outright lying we have the normal suspects just throwing shit around in the hope some sticks.
Rayban - where did I compare Corbyn to Sweden. cite. I compared his policies to the nordic social democratic tradition.
so go on – one tiny example of Corbyn being authoritarian?
He won't step down from leader for the good of the country on the basis that he thinks he's the best, and make way for a more moderate left /Liberal leader, despite it damaging the Labour Party.
That's authoritarian.
Rayban – where did I compare Corbyn to Sweden. cite. I compared his policies to the nordic social democratic tradition.
And what is this homogenous nordic social democratic tradition TJ? Because it never existed - and definitely doesn't exist anymore. Generally though, what has been referred to as a general Nordic model has always included a commitment to free markets and free trade.
That isn't Corbyns vision.
Remember the Danish PM Lars Rasmussen once stated that ""I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore, I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy".
Hardly some sort of socialist paradise, eh?
No - its a social democratic policy because those high taxes are used to reduce poverty and inequality.
Rayban - I know you didn't understand it at all. You really should learn a bit about politics if you are going to spout onabout it.
I once again ask you - name a single policy of labour that is not firmly in the nordic / european social democratic tradition?
I did a while ago make a decision not to engage with you. I should have kept to it. A rightwinger whos political understanding is so poor he thinks he is left wing and whos understanding is so poor its simply not worth debating with
There have been high levels of pish talked on politics threads on here but you are right up there with THM
And again rayban - social democracy is not socialism Basic politics. the Nordic countries are not socialist same as Corbyn is not
with that I leave you to it. Its pointless
No – its a social democratic policy because those high taxes are used to reduce poverty and inequality.
Rayban – I know you didn’t understand it at all. You really should learn a bit about politics if you are going to spout onabout it.
We use taxes to redistribute wealth and reduce inequality as well.
Just because they use somewhat higher taxation, doesn't mean that they are socialist or social democratic in Corbyns sense. They aren't and weren't even before the 1990s. Is your understanding of the nordic model predicated on a defined cut off point in terms of the redistributive effects of taxation?
That's is ****ing funny.
And again rayban – social democracy is not socialism Basic politics. the Nordic countries are not socialist same as Corbyn is not
Again, you aren't understanding this properly - they aren't even Corbyn.
I gotta say I agree with rayban on this, if corbyn wasn't authoritarian he'd have stepped aside to allow a more moderate, less contraversial leader to replace himself for the good of the labour party and ultimately the good of the people he represents.
That’s authoritarian.
So because he doesnt agree with your beliefs about who should be the Labour party leader he is authoritarian?
Its best not to use Humpty Dumptys approach to language in debate.
It would be nice to keep to actual facts.
Like, ohh, how many times Johnson lied today.
I gotta say I agree with rayban on this, if corbyn wasn’t authoritarian he’d have stepped aside to allow a more moderate, less contraversial leader to replace himself for the good of the labour party and ultimately the good of the people he represents.
Don't worry, when Corbyn goes we'll get another momentum lunatic for people like Ash Sarkar to fawn over.
Hey I'm no fan of the tories!
I might even vote Labour for tactical purposes.
But corbyn is a dead duck as leaders go. He's the wrong person for the job.
He's inflexible and stoic, fair enough, I appreciate the honesty.
But he's also not capable despite insisting his way is the only way.
How is that not authoritarianism?
Literally the only thing he's got over the tories is that he's not a lying sack of shit, it doesn't make him a good or wise leader.
He won’t step down from leader for the good of the country on the basis that he thinks he’s the best, and make way for a more moderate left /Liberal leader, despite it damaging the Labour Party.
That’s authoritarian.
Doing the job he was twice elected to do? It's outrageous.
Here is a basic starter in politics Rayban so you can understand some of these terms you like to throw about. It might help you understand a little more about the differnces between social democracy and socialism for a start.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27852047-politics-from-a-to-z
Here is a basic starter in politics Rayban so you can understand some of these terms you like to throw about. It might help you understand a little more about the differnces between social democracy and socialism for a start.
I understand the difference, you don't appear to - because you are conflating Corbynism with the Nordic model. When I stated originally, that the Swedish countries were not socialist, I was right.
Why did you conflate the two then? the dunning Kruger is strong in you
Bye bye. Its a waste of time debating with you
Because I didn't TJ
Because they aren’t capital “S” socialist by Corbyns standards and haven’t been since the reforms well over 20 years ago. They are neoliberal states with a somewhat strong welfare model, that’s it.
Where there, do I call them socialist - or conflate the current Nordic model with socialism?
Bye bye. Its a waste of time debating with you
Coming from the man putting words into peoples mouths.
How is that not authoritarianism?
Because thats not what the word means. It really isnt difficult.
Doing the job he was twice elected to do? It’s outrageous.
Might seem reasonable if you are hard core Labour, I suspect most floating voters, as I do, as in the wider electorate see him as a bit of a fantasist.
I find it fascinating that both the BBC and The Guardian are now fact checking Johnson in real time and outing his lies as lies.
Never seen this before in UK politics that a politician has such a reputation for lying that everything he says is fact checked like this
Its really not going well for the tories is it.
Well James Brokenshire obviously lost the CCHQ game of soggy biscuit & had to go on newsnight tonight
Maitlis shredded him
Might seem reasonable if you are hard core Labour, I suspect most floating voters, as I do, as in the wider electorate see him as a bit of a fantasist.
It's reasonable to disagree with his politics, but suggesting that it's "authoritarian" to do what he was twice elected to do strips the word of any meaning.
Because thats not what the word means. It really isnt difficult.
No, it's not difficult.
Corbyn won't compromise or tell the people in straight and clear terms what he wants.
He could simply say he's for or against brexit, but he won't.
He's playing the power game, just like the tories.
If Labour had a more moderate leader that would work with other parties such as the libs, greens, SNP, plaid, we might get somewhere.
Instead he's expecting other parties to sign up to a blind deal with him.
the BBC
Its really not going well for the tories is it.
Well, Newsnight is busy interviewing Tories about how wonderful Johnson’s campaigning is so far, and how the mess of the last few days is all noise that won’t get in his way. Or perhaps I just heard what I didn’t want to hear.
It’s reasonable to disagree with his politics, but suggesting that it’s “authoritarian” to do what he was twice elected to do strips the word of any meaning.
If Jacob Rees Mogg was leader of the conservative party, and he selected Nick Griffin and Tommy Robinson as his closest advisers - what would be your thoughts on the matter?
Can anyone help me with that website you are all getting polls for your local constituencies from? I cannot get it to work for me
If you mean the one that tries to turn national polling data into constituency indicators, I think their model is England and Wales ready only. The main guy is on. Twitter if you want to ask him. ‘flaviblePolitic’, is their handle.
I meant the one on the previous page "democratic dashboard" that folk seemed to be getting polling inforfrom for their local constituency
Or have I misunderstood?
I find it fascinating that both the BBC and The Guardian are now fact checking Johnson in real time and outing his lies as lies.
Never seen this before in UK politics that a politician has such a reputation for lying that everything he says is fact checked like this
Its really not going well for the tories is it.
On a serious note, the mainstream media are really scared that they will be attacked hard by Boris as Trump has done, so they are getting their shots in early and going for blood. Sky appear to be going after Boris as well, Kay Burley seems positively raging these days, I was a bit taken aback after watching Sky News for the first time in a few years. The media has been shaken by the post-truth online world and they are likely aiming to try and counter it, I suspect Corbyn will get his fair share of scrutiny as well.
Instead he’s expecting other parties to sign up to a blind deal with him.
Lets skip you providing some evidence for this claim and get back to your initial claim.
How, exactly, does that make him authoritarian?
As a helpful hint a general feature of someone being authoritarian is them being very clear what everyone has to sign up to.
Dissonance - answer....
If Jacob Rees Mogg was leader of the conservative party, and he selected Nick Griffin and Tommy Robinson as his closest advisers – what would be your thoughts on the matter?
please.
As a helpful hint a general feature of someone being authoritarian is them being very clear what everyone has to sign up to.
If you know anything about authoritarian leaders, you'd know that this isn't the case at all. They are experts at hiding their views, gentrifying them for mass appeal and being everything to everyone - which is exactly what Corbyn has done with Brexit.
Dissonance:
"When I use a word," Rayban said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
“democratic dashboard”
I think you’ve misunderstood TJ.
Should Labour stand aside in these constituencies?
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1192216570086543366
Dissonance – answer…
Lets do a deal. You provide evidence for your claims first and then I might bother responding to your random hypothetical shite.
Deal?
Yes, they should. If they really want to defeat the Tories, they won't though. That isn't what a true lefty would do.
Lets do a deal. You provide evidence for your claims first and then I might bother responding to your random hypothetical shite.
Deal?
Good dodge.
I'm pretty certain though that you and TJ would be calling JRM a fascist.
Kimbers, the Survation polling shows an awful lot of seats where LibDems jump from distant third to a close second, but there is no chance in hell of any Labour candidate stepping aside in any of them to let the LibDems unseat a Tory. If you’re waiting for that, don’t bother…
Kimbers I ruddy well wish they would
I have been wanting this for a while now. An anti tory pact for a single election on a platform of second referendum and constitutional change. If we had a decent democratic system we would never have another tory majority
I can agree to that though TJ.
What TJ says. He’s 100% right on this one.
If Jacob Rees Mogg was leader of the conservative party, and he selected Nick Griffin and Tommy Robinson as his closest advisers – what would be your thoughts on the matter?
I think that his policies would most likely be authoritarian, not the fact that he stood for election.
Good dodge.
Well given your ability to dodge I take that as a compliment. I notice you still fail to support your claims with evidence. Is Johnson your role model by anychance? Just keep lying.
I’m pretty certain though that you and TJ would be calling JRM a fascist.
We have already established though you arent really one for evidence or reality so it comes as no surprise at all that I wouldnt take the same simplistic approach as you would. I assume you are projecting your own failings. I would require a tad more information like, ohh, actual policies and voting record.
I mean a good starting point would be looking at whether someone was voting for the sort of law which sets things up nicely for authoritarianism, dont you think?
I think that his policies would most likely be authoritarian, not the fact that he stood for election.
Do you think for a second, that you would have hard evidence of fascist/authoritarian policies before the election? Or do you think that Jacob Rees Mogg would water them down in this scenario? Would you not suspect that his policies would be authoritarian based on the fact that he chose Nick Griffin and Tommy Robinson in this scenario?
Well given your ability to dodge I take that as a compliment. I notice you still fail to support your claims with evidence. Is Johnson your role model by anychance? Just keep lying.
We've already posted some of it (the link further back looking at momentums purges of New Labour), others have posted their thoughts as well. As I've stated, you won't get hard evidence in terms of policy statements because that is not something authoritarian leaders tend to do - unless there is wild populist support for them, which there is not currently for Corbyns Labour.
I mean a good starting point would be looking at whether someone was voting for the sort of law which sets things up nicely for authoritarianism, dont you think?
Seeing as Jeremy, up until now, hasn't had the influence to be able to direct the legislative procedure - how can we know from his voting record whether he is authoritarian or not? He played devils advocate to New Labour whilst he was a back bencher, that doesn't tell you very much about what his actual political views are.
Situation were the only ones that called the 2017 GE right iirc.
But other pollsters have changed their methods since then
I think we can all agree on that.
Getting back to the elections. Anyone else a tad disappointed with Swinsons statement about potential defections to the Lib Dems post election.
Really would have hoped she would have said in any such cases they would immediately seek a by election to confirm that the voters were actually happy they were now voting for a complete different set of policies.
Do you think for a second, that you would have hard evidence of fascist/authoritarian policies before the election?
Seeing as Corbyn has won two leadership elections, his authoritarian policies should be very clear by now. And trying to shoehorn a far right criminal into your attempt at a comparison is very silly indeed.
We have already established though you arent really one for evidence or reality so it comes as no surprise at all that I wouldnt take the same simplistic approach as you would. I assume you are projecting your own failings. I would require a tad more information
Steady on cowboy, what's corbyn's stance on whether we remain or leave?
A simple yes or no answer please.
Really would have hoped she would have said in any such cases they would immediately seek a by election to confirm that the voters were actually happy they were now voting for a complete different set of policies.
Only if there is also an immediate general election if the government policies don’t match exactly what was voted on. And all MPs to face a by-election if they vote against their party whip. In fact, let’s just have one MP in parliament from each party. Or hundreds of robots voting consistently along party lines, with no deviation.
A simple yes or no answer please.
Looks at question.
Looks at demand for a yes/no answer to a question which isnt yes/no.
You havent really thought this through have you?
Seeing as Corbyn has won two leadership elections, his authoritarian policies should be very clear by now. And trying to shoehorn a far right criminal into your attempt at a comparison is very silly indeed.
This shows your bias.
How are Seamus (Mr "The Stalin purges weren't that bad") Milne and Murray any better than Tommy Robinson and Nick Griffin?
Only if there is also an immediate general election if the government policies don’t match exactly what was voted on.
Really? You think they are the same thing? Someone changing parties within, say, 6 months of being elected vs every single policy being carried out in that timeframe.
As an aside I do somewhat like the idea that governments should be held to their manifesto promises and elections called if they break them. Although getting that to work would obviously be tricky and only really work in clear breaches of them eg promise not to raise taxes and immediately do so or promise to hold second referendum.
Yes, I think we elect MPs, and if they can’t in good conscience stay in a party then they should not. Having MPs voting to satisfy their whips, rather than doing what they think is right, is messing this country up. Any kind of “automatic byelection” idea is just about scaring MPs into being obedient to their parties, not exercising their own judgement.
Yes, I think we elect MPs, and if they can’t in good conscience stay in a party then they should not. Having MPs voting to satisfy their whips, rather than doing what they think is right, is messing this country up. Any kind of “automatic byelection” idea is just about scaring MPs into being obedient to their parties, not exercising their own judgement.
+1
Shock horror, Corbyn supporter in authoritarian outburst.
Well it's not a tough question, or it shouldn't be for someone who wants to lead a country.
But that's not what corbyn is. He's a shadow back bencher at best. He should do the ethical thing and step off if he's not prepared to sit on the potty.
Yes, I think we elect MPs, and if they can’t in good conscience stay in a party then they should not
Well there are two different things at play here.
The first is the general principle of someone leaving the party they originally joined at a random point. Which I am all for. However lets face it in reality how often do people elect the actual MP and not the party? I would suggest in a very small percentage of the cases and, if I am wrong, then it will be fine since they will just get reelected anyway.
I am not sure why you feel whipping is the source of the problems? After all it doesnt actually have any real immediate effect outside of a very specific subset of MPs. If you lose the whip then you become independent until next election or, as per Labour last set of votes, nothing happens.
The exception is government posts where there is significant financial advantage to staying in line. One of the things which has changed in recent years is the expansion of these roles arguably in order to allow enforcement.
The second part is this very specific case. Someone leaving a party two years in after the party switches position is one thing but saying that they are interested in leaving just prior to an election seems a tad dishonest. If they dont feel they can stay in the party then leave prior not after.
Also note I am not demanding "automatic elections" outside of that hypothetical manifesto scenario which I cant see ever working properly but saying it is the honest thing for a party to do.
If she believes her party policies are good enough to get the votes then she should be willing to have it proved in a byelection.
but saying that they are interested in leaving just prior to an election seems a tad dishonest
Who has said this?
And also, big changes in a party often happen after an election… leaders often change… policies are scrutinised afresh, etc.
Whether you win or not is as much to do with spending as it isn't.
If you can spend a lot, you will win a lot.
First you need to Take Back Control of your Election spend.
How are Seamus (Mr “The Stalin purges weren’t that bad”) Milne and Murray any better than Tommy Robinson and Nick Griffin?
Because you are comparing something that wasn't actually said with a someone who goes around starting trouble and is rotten to the core, and probably has a lot more influence to the public that Milne will ever have.
Milne is hardly a hateful character; he was a sodding Guardian columnist for god's sake!
Milne is hardly a hateful character; he was a sodding Guardian columnist for god’s sake!
He has actively gone out of his way to diminish the extent of various soviet purges and claim that the debate around the topic has somehow damaged the debate around the horrors caused by the Nazis (even though this is a very oversubscribed part of history), who in his opinion - should be regarded as the real baddies.
He is also a stooge who's articles often parallel the Kremlins agenda.
Basically a grade A scumbag, the same as Robinson.
He is also a stooge who’s articles often parallel the Kremlins agenda.
Send articles?
He's too middle class to be called a scumbag.
He's nothing like Robinson because he doesn't carry out activism that incites violence or a racist viewpoint.
Look Maria Gatland was member of the IRA but is now a Tory Councillor. At which point do you recognise someone's currently standing as opposed to their past?
He’s too middle class to be called a scumbag.
Classist.
I just got off an exceedingly boring night shift, I’ll argue and try to evidence my point when I wake up in 8 hours - and I’ll also try and be more serious and less obtuse this time.
Wasn’t this the chap that prorogued parliament and who was accused of being an enti-democratic demagogue?
The court ruled the prorogation illegal and undemocratic but I don't recall them calling him a demagogue.
Still, since he kicked dissenters out of the party, surely he is an authoritarian. Whatever that means.
This shows your bias.
How are Seamus (Mr “The Stalin purges weren’t that bad”) Milne and Murray any better than Tommy Robinson and Nick Griffin?
It's laughable that you're accusing me of bias. You're inventing a narrative for Corbyn by comparing his advisor to a far right criminal, and have consistently failed to evidence your claim. A sensible person would stop and have a think.
Guys - you might as well give up here. You are being trolled.
Back to discussions of the election.
Can the Tories reset after a very poor couple of days full of gaffes?
Will Labours good couple of days be reflected in polls? Is rather suprising to see labour being slick and professional while the tories flounder about making gaffes and being called out for lies
Johnson is going to have to improve his poll ratings and gain maybe 30 seats for a majority ( going to lose 10 in Scotland and a few to the lib dems and maybe even a few to labour)
It’s probably going to be a bad day for Labour.
One of their long serving MPs has just announced on Radio 4 that:
- he’s not going to stand for election
- Corbyn has poisoned the Labour Party with anti semitism
- Corbyn’s relationship border on being traitor to his own country and that he’s spent his whole career playing the role of an ally to corrupt regimes and terrorists
- John McDonnell is about the same
- Labour’s economic plans will ruin the country - Corbyn will “take every step possible to make the economy sick”
- People should vote for the Conservatives
- Boris Johnson is a more competent leader
Oops
I wondered when this would happen. One of the tories useful idiots in the labour party. who was it?
Are you suggesting he's being stabbed in the back by Watson because the Tories aren't organised enough to stab him in the front? 🙂
Who has said this?
Various politicans according to Swinson.
leaders often change…
Not very often and irrelevant here. The questionmark is specifically around Swinsons claims.
Maybe she did then carry on to say "and obviously this would be a tad odd and this is how I would solve it" but given the dishonest advertising so far I sort of doubt it.