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I can't see a legal outcome from what he did.
If he'd missed Lambie, then that would be a legal outcome.
I've thought Ire throw themselves illegally at people for years
Of course they do, yeah. 😀
Late, high, avoidable. Probably not intentional, but as I'm always saying to my kids, you have to "mean not to do it".
Late, high, avoidable. Probably not intentional
Aye, agreed. I think like most of these things, we've all seen worse go unpunished and better get harsher treatment. I'm not whinging about the red...clumsy attempt at block leaves opposition player out cold...so a red was not surprising in the least. Hope he's got nice biscuits for the panel...if he gets cited.
Anyone know what the sanction for the red would be in this case i.e. on a Summer tour? Will he be watching the rest from the sidelines?
DD, but he didn't miss. If you miss with a straight arm there's no offence either, but if you connect you can expect a card.
I'm sure he's a stupid oaf, rather than a dirty cheap-shotter, but if you launch yourself at someone's head after the ball has gone you are in trouble. It's all about player safety - and he took a bloke out illegally and off the ball.
* sorry - posted whilst you were writing your last!!
At one point I thought Henshaw was going too!! It was a silly tackle just after the red card. I didn't like Best arguing with the ref either.
Best was probably man of the match.
With you on the red DD but were are out of date 😉 as dan says, player safety is (correctly) the key these days
But on that basis Henshaw should have gone too!!
Red did seem harsh at the time but not toooo surprising either. Can't believe the Ireland result and I wonder if they can too 🙂
George is broke...we're doooooooomed
Don't worry, we have a 5 foot nothing pup who hasn't even had a Pro 12 game yet and Patchell flying in. As a kind of "all rounder" back Patchell has to be preferable to Anscombe (who may himself be injured along with Loopy Liam). The Kiwi is our own Burgess minus the bit where Burgess was actually good at a form of rugby. Any idea why Paul James and Lloyd Williams flew home? Injuries? Lloyd has been one of our more successful back up wingers of late so it would be a shame not to use him in this winger crisis 🙂
James was injured when he left, Lloyd took a knock in training.
Straight red no doubt. Turned his back knee and -rse first. If you are trying to block the kick its hands high facing the ball. He knew the wasnt going to make it, he wasn't even trying imho
@wrecker bound to be on youtube by now, some highlights here
Stander to appear before disciplinary hearing tomorrow in Cape Town.
Could be quite a ban @dd although I suppose as its the summer he'll be back in time for the 6N
Dont think he'll get much of a ban due to the fact he is 1. Not French 2. Not Gavin Henson and 3. He has a great biscuit collection.
Personally I think a standard 2 match ban is quite sufficient, but I bet he gets 6 weeks
Congratulations Ireland btw. I bet the new RSA coach is geteting a real roasting in the press, losing first game at home to 14 men
Despite being someone who spent much of his rugby career trying to do just what Stander did - I have to agree it was a red card.
The red wasn't given because of the result. The high, late and dangerous challenge was still a red even if Lambie had bounced straight up again.
It reminds me of the Hogg one v wales a couple of years ago. I think Stander will miss the next test but could make the 3rd..mind you I was a flanker, I think he deserves a beer
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iVRysNQ-STo
He must have arse-cheeks of steel.
Among all the deserved plaudits for an incredible Irish win - I don't think I've heard any mention that the Boks are playing with the deck stacked against them.
I don't know what the racial makeup of the side was but I do know that under "transformation" it's supposed have a 50% black representation by 2019 (tough when you have a 15 man side). This inevitably means that you may not be able to pick some of your best players.
Although not in force yet, every squad and team selection is under the microscope as to its racial makeup and selections are made under such pressure.
It's fine if your 15 best players are black - great, you pick the best side.
Not so fine if the best 15 are all white.
Equally not good if you've reached the quota but then a first choice black player gets injured and the best replacement is white. Do you pick him or go down the depth chart 'til you find a black replacement?
You can see why the job of SA Coach is probably the toughest in world rugby.
^^^ very true
Team v the Chiefs:
Matthew Morgan (Bristol Rugby), Eli Walker (Ospreys), Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Tom James (Cardiff Blues), Rhys Priestland (Bath Rugby) Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Racing 92), Josh Turnbull (Cardiff Blues), Ellis Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), James King (Ospreys).
Replacements: Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester), Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Rhys Patchell.
Matthew ****ing Morgan?! Bet Moriarty is hoping no backrow gets broke.
Not wishing to re-open the Ford/Farrell debate but it seems - from reading around a bit - that Burrell was pulled off so Ford could run things from 10 rather than (just) because he was rubbish.
So if EJ sticks with the Ford/Farrell combo is it coz he still sees Ford as the best 10 or he sees Farrell as the best 12 or he thinks Farrell can't be left out as he's the best kicker? (Like Neil Jenkins on the '97 Lions Tour who was nobody's idea of the best fullback)
I guess if Slade got in at 12 we'd see who EJ wanted at 10? Ultimately though, Farrell's kicking makes him almost un-droppable whether he's the best FH or not.
Farrell was superb at 12,I think he could be the link you lot have been missing since Greenwood. Manu outside him and that would be a fantastic pairing. Good of Jones to stick with Yarde to give the rest of us a chance mind!
And Brown...He runs like he has forgotten to take of the resistance bands...
I would compare Farrell to Mike Catt, decent enough club 10 horrible at international level. Made the switch to centre and propsered. If we had a kicking fullback and/or Ford gets his confidemce back imo Farrell would not be in the side.
I see the Aussies have turned the bad loser dial upto 11, leopards and spots
CJ's adjourned hearing from yesterday now pushed back to 2pm local time. #FreeCJ doing the hashtag rounds on Twitter. 🙂
Not seen the england gameso what did Burrel do wrong?
Jumping out the line, left a dog leg and an "open shoulder" to run at.
@aa whole team was misfiring, we posed no threat, had no plan and Australia where scoring at will. We where very lucky not to be 24 or 27 nil down. Second try Farrell got burned, Aussie TV (which I was watching) made a point of showing his error. Burrell was taken off so Ford could play 10. This is of course my learned personal view 😉
Well its sure going to scar a decent player!
?
I guess a_a means Burrell can feel miffed at being replaced to accommodate the 10 who isn't that great at the 10 aspects of the game. There doesn't seem to be a lot of love for Burrell within the English commentators so I wonder if they know something we dont
whole team was misfiring, we posed no threat, had no plan and Australia where scoring at will.
Not entirely true though is it? They were slow to start Aus were [i]extremely [/i]fast and attacked from the outside having obviously identified a weakness in our game. However we won with some conviction and are now 3rd in the World rankings.
Burrell can feel miffed at being replaced to accommodate the 10 who isn't that great at the 10 aspects of the game.
The real problem (if it's a problem) is that Farrell is a world class placekicker so you can't leave him out of potentially tight games.
So where do you put him? He's too slow for the back 3 (although Alex Goode is mysteriously still in the squad) and JJ is nailed on at 13 so 12 is the only option.
Burrel was left out of the world cup for Burgess too. I'd be off to France if I was him.
Indeed a_a, if Cipriani thought he was hard done by then he should have a chat with Burrell to lift his spirits 😀
On a different subject, did you see the interviews with Anscombe out in NZ? Literally looked like he couldn't give a sh1t about playing for Wales... [sarcasm] such a difference to the attitude he shows on the pitch [/sarcasm]. I honestly believe that he is a mercurial reader of the game and of defensive positioning as he is strikes the perfect balance of always being just far enough away from the attacking opposition to not have to do anything but be just close enough to say he made a brave effort to cover
1 week ban for CJ. Misses 2nd test. Back for 3rd. That's grand.
The issue was that the defence wasn't keeping its shape, so they put the person who best understands Gustards defensive system into the position where he could have the most effect. We were still too narrow and it looked as if Aus could score at will out wide. In that respect, I actually think we'd have been better off with Goode playing and I wouldn't be surprised if he starts the next game(!)
The people who actually won the game for england were the pack. Haskell, Itoge, Robshaw, Hartley and Mako were machines.
The people who actually won the game for england were the pack.
Can't agree more. Immense.
I hadn't seen until today, but Pocock is out for the rest of the series with a fractured eye socket. I wonder what the odds are 3-0 series win??? 😉
Were England running a combined rush / drift defence? I've played in teams that used that and it works really well if you get it right but can take a while get new team members up to speed; that said you'd have thought a pro would grasp it pretty quickly. Also makes you look pretty stupid if you get it wrong...
@dd that's a result
Farrell is a world class placekicker
Chokes on beer and peanuts (don't all cheer at once 🙂 ) Farrell is pretty reliable at basic kicks (to international standard) but he has no real range and imo not world class out wide. He is however the best we've got right now as Ford has been off-key.
Yup our forwards where excellent and thankfully we made the change in midfield before the game was out of sight.
1 week ban for CJ. Misses 2nd test. Back for 3rd. That's grand.
Unconfirmed reports that he arrived at the hearing by jumping into the door arse-first.
HT @WelshDalaiLama
Were England running a combined rush / drift defence?
Yep, but it didn't work at all. Aus always seemed to have a big overlap outside and made hay. Brown was at 6s and 7s in defence I thought.
Say what you like but Farrell has been the starting 10 and has played as big a part in the season as anyone for a team which has won the not-heinekin cup and the prem. The man is comfortably world class at present. I never thought I would say that but you have to give a player his dues when he lifts his game by as much as he has. He's obviously worked like a dog. Most pundits rated him at 9/10 for saturday and have him in their (world) team of the week.
Hartley seems to be doing ok at this captaining lark doesn't he.
He is the No1 ranked international kicker in 2016 - combination of success and difficulty.
The real long-rangers often aren't the primary kicker, as their accuracy isn't as good.
It worked better once they swapped Farrell back to inside centre - and iirc that's the key defensive decision making position (at least from first phase) for that system.
As someone who isn't a fan of either Farrell or Haskell (for different reasons) I have to say they both had absolutely storming games. Haskell even gave a decent pass rather than just smashing it up into contact!
inside centre - and iirc that's the key defensive decision making position (at least from first phase) for that system.
Bang on. Let's not forget where the defensive coach came from, and how long Farrell has been working with him.
Farrell is a world class placekicker
Hey Jamba, I'm no fan of Farrell but if you want any of the current England crop to be taking a last minute kick to win the match - you want him.
He is the No1 ranked international kicker in 2016 - combination of success and difficulty
There ya go......
I would agree he's the best kicker we've got, my question is that enough to keep him in the side. I would not be totally surprised to see him at full-back in the future.
Really??? He plays 10/12 for England and the best team in Europe. Why not say 2nd row, he has just as much chance of playing there.
Ellis Jenkins injured so Sam Warburton starts this morning v the chiefs..dear god the man is made of glass as it is...... glad I'll be working and not able to see us get beaten.
Wales/Ireland are racking up some serious injuries!
On the bright side, it will give exposure at the highest level to more players. The "Tour of Hell" by England to Australia led to the RWC winning side. Wasn't 72-0 our worst result on that tour???
Getting humped by the Chiefs 😥
40 points to 7. Good to see the famous poor Super Rugby defence rearing its head 😆
Thought Wales would struggle against the strongest SR side, but they were missing 9 top players to the ABs squad, so it was hard to predict.
Still, like sending an international football team to play Barcelona! Who's idea was it to play the Chiefs midweek?
Tough for a touring side's confidence and motivation going forward I would think.
0uch!!!
Thought Wales would struggle against the strongest SR side, but they were missing 9 top players to the ABs squad, so it was hard to predict.
Not really Wales were missing an entire 15 apart from Sam who played a test match on saturday! The rest of the team wouldnt have played together before and have no doubt spent the last 3 weeks holding tacklebags.
"Not really" but you agree with me? huh. Oh, you mean you predicted Wales thrashing?
Wasnt it obvious?
It is now.
@dan yes it was an a certain Johnny Wilkinson came on and missed a kick from in-front. I had a points spread bet with a friend for the tour and lost about £150, most expensive bet ever. I persoanlly think the top players need more rest. I would rethink these tours all together. Make them a week and play 1 game ?
I guess Wales 2nd string, especially with all the injuries, is a bit different to the Lions midweek team. Even without the AB players, these Chiefs have played/trained together with this one match as their focus.
DezB
glad I'll be working and not able to see us get beaten.
It's funny, I watched the start of the 1st half and the first 20 mins of the 2nd half and all I saw was Wales making numerous breaks and lots of goal line pressure but coming away with nothing except a single try.
Missed all the Chiefs scores except the first. They did defend extremely well though - both in terms of organised defence and scrambling back when Wales got in behind them frequently.
For anyone interested in kicking stats I found the excellent www.goalkickers.co.za which I think dantsw13 was referring to.
It goes back to 2012 and analyses the difficulty of kicks using:
• distance of the kick
• angle of the kick
• altitude
• side of field and foot used
• score difference (to indicate pressure)
• home/away
• 1st half/2nd half
I think the bloke is an actuary (plus a rugby nut). He uses the stats to produce rankings based on whether the outcome is better/worse the success probablity.
THe top 6 international kickers since 2012, in order, have been:
Leigh Halfpenny
Owen Farrell
Dan Carter
Greig Laidlaw
Nicolas Sanchez
Dan Biggar
Halfpenny is also the top rated kicker across all competitions.
I hope none of the welsh contingent think what I'm about to say is a slight, because it's not meant that way at all.
This;
A few questions were answered for us about the fringe players and where they are at the moment. Players have been asking me for an opportunity and asking me why they haven’t been selected. There are some very simple answers. They have got to be honest about looking themselves in the mirror.
Said by Gatland is bang out of order. Wales have never had huge strength in depth, the lack of an "A" team (like the Saxons, Wolfhounds etc) is evidence of this. There is no shame in having your effective reserve team lose to the Chiefs, one of the best club sides on the planet even if they are missing a few players. I'd bet that a well drilled quality side like Saracens who play together week in, week out would beat most international "A" sides and I include the Saxons in that.
Publicly shaming your squad is detrimental to team spirit and damages player confidence. I neither like nor dislike the chap ordinarily, it's disappointing to hear what should have been said behind close doors.
Interesting @namaste, I wonder it would make a difference if he factored in weather which is generally rubbish in NZ ? As Insaid I wouldn't be surprised to see Farrell at full back sometime in the future.
FWIW I think Saracens would get a good spanking from the Chiefs in NZ too.
FWIW I think Saracens would get a good spanking from the Chiefs in NZ too.
Not by the chiefs side that played this morning they wouldnt.
Wrecker, I have no problem with him saying what he thinks, I think we should be looking for a new coach though, the team has become more experienced and less effective over the last few years. We should have improved in that time.
I think we should be looking for a new coach though
9 Years (less 1 for lions) in the same job is a long time - you're probably right.
Can't see why anyone would want Farrell playing Full Back, he is an excellent inside centre and a very good fly half - certainly the best inside England have had in recent years.
I wonder it would make a difference if he factored in weather which is generally rubbish in NZ
Yeah I don't think he does factor in weather but maybe he should. It's not exactly great in the UK either, with half our season in the middle of winter though is it?
The model doesn't allow for temperament either. I think Chris Paterson had a better % than Jonny Wilkinson but even if Wilko missed a few kicks you knew it wouldn't affect him if he was lining up a last minute kick to win the match. By contrast I'll always remember when Paterson was at Gloucester and they had that home Heineken Cup 1/4 against Munster - a huge game for them - and he fluffed 3 straightforward kicks in the first 20 minutes or so.
@mefty I suggested Farrell at 15 so as to find him a spot in the team, once (if) Tuilagi is fit plus all the other taelnt we have I think there is a time he's not picked in the centre. He's never going to be making many line breaks and he's not te rollicking / crash ball type either. At full-back he can catch and kick and run the ball back ok to the forwards. He has a place in the side primarily as goal kicker.
@aa I'd like to see Shaun Edwards given a go but there is Rob Howley too. I can't see Gatland stepping down, what does he do then ? Earning good money now, fairly decent quality of life. Can't see him being fired. Perhaps a job in France ?
Rob Howley can **** off. In his time as attack coach our attack has been shit.
I see Marler is spending his time off wisely!!
In all fairness he is right. A contribution will be invited to the RFU doubles all round fund for his use of language however.
I see Marler is spending his time off wisely!!
Saw that this morning - he doesn't learn does he? Idiot.
I've never been a fan of Farrell, but he is in great form at the moment and seems to have developed as a player this year. Wouldn't want him at full back though.
As it stands, I don't think Manu would walk back into the side - he's a great player (but with his own limitations) but the current combinations appear to be working pretty well. The back row isn't that quick, but it seems to be working well - Haskell was immense. Hopefully he can maintain that form in the next two games.
I didn't see the other games but have only read the reports etc. Fair play to Ireland to beat SA with a man down for 60 minutes. Wales task will only get harder I fear as the AB's settle into a routine again.
In all fairness he is right
True, but he should have the sense to keep his views private.
Having watched that Aus Fox promo vid - the must be gutted to lose to a side that bad!!
I remember during the 2008 Historic Ashes win at Lords there were Marstons Beers Adverts on the walls in the gents Loo:
"We Are English - we brew great beer. You're Australian - you serve it!!"
😀
Ford at 10, Farrell at 12 this weekend seemingly.
Well we can expect some big lumps of Aussie centre smashing it up the 10 channel then!! To be fair to Ford, I've never watched an England match & thought " ooh, Fords missing loads of tackles"